The DB file for this message board must be huge!

I would definetly dissagree that VB is a language for newbies.
I work with VB for a long time and making a lot of money. Does this make VB a newbiew language if companies are paying a lot of oney for it? If you look at the market (even now when its really bad) you will see almost no difference between salary of C/C++, Java or VB. VB was meant to be a database oriented language.

About ASP, I run the site with ASP and SQL Server 2000. My Server is not as fast as the one on VBWorld so its hard to compare apples to oranges. I can tell you this. I work with Java as well and I can tell you that Java has some pros and cons. Its actually slower then VB (I'm not going to compare JSP vs ASP, they're also apples to oranges).

VB can be complicated at times. C is now rarely used in opose to C++ but it doesnt make it an absolete language, does it?

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
PHP is based heavily on Perl.

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Is it ? I don't think so. PHP is based on the ZEND engine.

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Originally posted by aknisely
Or ASP/VB.

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Sorry, until you can show me this site running with ASP, I'm going to maintain that it wouldn't run as well.

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Sorry, until you can show me this site running with ASP, I'm going to maintain that it wouldn't run as well.

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Sorry, until you can show me this site running with Perl, embPerl, Mason, or Perl/CGI, I'm going to maintain that it wouldn't run as well.

http://vbgarage.com

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Originally posted by Serge
I would definetly dissagree that VB is a language for newbies.
I work with VB for a long time and making a lot of money. Does this make VB a newbiew language if companies are paying a lot of oney for it? If you look at the market (even now when its really bad) you will see almost no difference between salary of C/C++, Java or VB. VB was meant to be a database oriented language.

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Sorry, but how much people are paying VB programmers is not an indication of how good it is. I'm getting paid to do VB. But everything I'm doing could be done smaller, faster, cheaper, and more reliably in a host of other languages.

I hate to say this, but using market direction as a basis for which technology is better is an AOL/MS mindset. I again refer to the BetaMax/VHS runoff. Beta was a better technology. Sony did a real bad job of marketing it, so it lost the home entertainment market. Just because everyone owns a VHS doesn't make it better.

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VB can be complicated at times. C is now rarely used in opose to C++ but it doesnt make it an absolete language, does it?

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This has nothing to do with obselecence. Since C++ was meant to be a superset of C and not a standalone language, one could say that C is still used very very widely (the most wide spread). I am glad to see that we will be getting the next generation of C. I don't know if it will be called D or P.

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Originally posted by aknisely
Sorry, until you can show me this site running with Perl, embPerl, Mason, or Perl/CGI, I'm going to maintain that it wouldn't run as well.

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Heh... if you want to believe that PHP is better than Perl, that is fair enough.

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Originally posted by Serge
VB was meant to be a database oriented language.

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I would disagree just given the history of BASIC. I would say that VB has grown to be a database oriented language, but that is just splitting hairs.

But as a tangent, what makes VB DB oriented?

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Heh... if you want to believe that PHP is better than Perl, that is fair enough.

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That wasn't my point. My point, since you refuse to see anything other than what you want to see, is that ASP/VB can be used in just as many situations, and perform just as well as (better than?) PHP. Chuckle with your Linux mates all you want, but I doubt you could prove me wrong.

Perl rocks

Travis, you sound to me like a person who was abused with VB (ironically speaking).

Let's just forget the subject. Everyone has his/her own opinion. If you think that VB sux and you still work with it I pitty you as you probably have a job that you don't like doing.

What makes VB a DB oriented is the market. Look at the percentage of jobs for VB. Roughly 85% of them are DB oriented.

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Originally posted by thinktank



Is it ? I don't think so. PHP is based on the ZEND engine.

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not php or it depends on what version you have/get is cgi shell

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Originally posted by thinktank
Is it ? I don't think so. PHP is based on the ZEND engine.

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From the Zend site
PHP started as a quick Perl hack written by Rasmus Lerdorf in late 1994.

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I don't know who or what Zend is.

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
I would disagree just given the history of BASIC. I would say that VB has grown to be a database oriented language, but that is just splitting hairs.

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This history of BASIC is rather irrelevant. What matters is what VB has grown to be, what does well, what it can be used for, and how it can be improved upon. Saying that it sucks, on whatever premise or evidence, doesn't help anyone.

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Originally posted by scoutt

not php or it depends on what version you have/get is cgi shell

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Zend Engine
The Zend Engine is the basic scripting engine which drives PHP. Owned by Zend Technologies Ltd., the engine is licensed to PHP for free use. The Zend Engine brings to PHP performance, reliability, and an easy-to-use scripting interface.

The Zend Engine has potential to serve as an add-on for a wide range of applications, similar to VBA. The Zend Engine, like PHP, is cross-platform and open source, giving it a much broader basis than proprietary commercial applications.

The Zend Engine is open-source and may be used and/or distributed under the terms of the Q Public License (QPL) version 1.0

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Originally posted by Serge
If you think that VB sux and you still work with it I pitty you as you probably have a job that you don't like doing.

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said like a true trooper!

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Originally posted by Serge
What makes VB a DB oriented is the market. Look at the percentage of jobs for VB. Roughly 85% of them are DB oriented.

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Again, the market doesn't prove anything. Just because lots of people use it for DBs doesn't mean it works better than LangX with DBs.

And yes, I hate my job.

The product I'm working with isn't bad. It's just... each seperate monitor takes 8MB of memory. Since it is in VB it can not be ported, so we can only sell to Windows clients. Fortunately this product doesn't require a client install or agents, only a single server. So the non-Windows clients who are using it have agreed to set up a single NT server for this application.

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Originally posted by thinktank


Zend Engine
The Zend Engine is the basic scripting engine which drives PHP. Owned by Zend Technologies Ltd., the engine is licensed to PHP for free use. The Zend Engine brings to PHP performance, reliability, and an easy-to-use scripting interface.

The Zend Engine has potential to serve as an add-on for a wide range of applications, similar to VBA. The Zend Engine, like PHP, is cross-platform and open source, giving it a much broader basis than proprietary commercial applications.

The Zend Engine is open-source and may be used and/or distributed under the terms of the Q Public License (QPL) version 1.0

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I understand that but,

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from php.net
PHP 4.0.6 zip package [4,859Kb] - 23 June 2001
(CGI binary plus server API versions for Apache, AOLserver, ISAPI and NSAPI. MySQL support built-in, many extensions included, packaged as zip)
PHP 4.0.6 installer [755Kb] - 23 June 2001
(CGI only, MySQL support built-in, packaged as Windows installer to install and configure PHP, and automatically configure IIS, PWS and Xitami, with manual configuration for other servers. N.B. no external extensions included)

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Again, the market doesn't prove anything. Just because lots of people use it for DBs doesn't mean it works better than LangX with DBs.

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That wasn't your question. Your question was, "what makes VB DB oriented?"

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And yes, I hate my job.

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That's too bad. With the popularity of Linux and all, you'd think that you'd be able to find something more enjoyable.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scoutt

I understand that but,

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from php.net
PHP 4.0.6 zip package [4,859Kb] - 23 June 2001
(<b>CGI binary plus server</b> API versions for Apache, AOLserver, ISAPI and NSAPI. MySQL support built-in, many extensions included, packaged as zip)
PHP 4.0.6 installer [755Kb] - 23 June 2001
(<b>CGI only</b>, MySQL support built-in, packaged as Windows installer to install and configure PHP, and automatically configure IIS, PWS and Xitami, with manual configuration for other servers. N.B. no external extensions included)

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PHP can be installed as a CGI application or an ISAPI application.
Where does it say about perl ?

perl is a form of cgi

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Originally posted by aknisely
That wasn't your question. Your question was, "what makes VB DB oriented?"

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Adam, it is becoming obvious that you aren't helping your side.

My question was (is) what makes VB DB oriented.

The answer was, "nothing, 85% of its use is with DBs".

See how that works?

You can't say that VB is OO oriented because 85% of its use is with objects. You can say that LangX is OO oriented because it supports classes and inheritance. If no one ever uses LangX for OO, that doesn't affect anything, the language is still OO oriented.

It's like my car, even if it doesn't stay on the pavement, it is still pavement oriented. :)

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Originally posted by scoutt
perl is a form of cgi

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Perl is a scripting language. That fact that you can use it with CGI is nothing special. It is like using PerlScript for ASPs.

Perl is a Scripting Language ..
CGI - Common Gateway Interface is a standard by which an application running in a server can service a request from a client.

ISAPI - A Standard like CGI. Here unlike CGI multiple instances of the web application are not spawned there by saving server resources.

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Originally posted by chrisjk
Perl rocks

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Very much so.

But I still wouldn't write an OS with it.

Travis, all I can say is that you are a sad programmer.
I remember talking to an ASM programmer a few years ago and he also said: "Why using C/C++ when you can get it even faster by susing ASM".
Does it mean he is right?

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Originally posted by Serge
Travis, all I can say that you are a sad programmer.
I remember talking to an ASM programmer a few years ago and he also said: "Why using C/C++ when you can get it even faster by susing ASM".
Does it mean he is right?

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There is a trade off. If he is writing a CPU scheduler, then assembly is an infinitely better choice then VB and C++

Take the project I am working with. As I mentioned before, each monitor has an 8MB footprint. If they had written it in VC++ then each monitor would have a 6MB (or smaller) footprint. And it would be more OO oriented and more portable. It would be a better product.

'Course, if the product was multi-threaded that would help a lot with the memory problems.

Why was in written in VB? Because the guy who wrote it had no formal training in programming. He was learning, and he was able to learn VB faster than C++. He says he doesn't like C++ because of the braces and semicolons.

If I could convince the client, then we could rewrite it and make a better product.

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My question was (is) what makes VB DB oriented.

The answer was, "nothing, 85% of its use is with DBs".

See how that works?

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Your question could be answered a number of ways. If your question was "Is there a design or feature of VB makes it DB oriented," then the answer would be "no." It contains database features, but VB isn't designed to be geared specifically towards databases.

If your question was "Based on the usage of VB, is it DB oriented," one might answer "yes," because most VB applications are used for database interaction, assuming Serge's figure of 85% is in the ballpark.

Thus, it all depends on what criterion you need to make something database-oriented -- how people use it, or what it's been designed for.

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
If I could convince the client, then we could rewrite it and make a better product.

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Then go ahead and convince him. Tell him you think you have a way you could do something better, and that the way you're doing things now is unacceptable to you. But simply because you might write an application better in Language A doesn't mean Language B is useless.

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Originally posted by aknisely
Thus, it all depends on what criterion you need to make something database-oriented -- how people use it, or what it's been designed for.

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The only criteria is design. Just because a hundred people find ways to put round pegs in square holes doesn't mean it was designed to fit. It just means people are creative and pegs are easily kludged.

85% of VB apps using DBs just means that there is a big demand for DB interfaces.

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Originally posted by aknisely
It contains database features, but VB isn't designed to be geared specifically towards databases.

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Yes it was actually. That's one of the major reasons why it exists...

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Originally posted by chrisjk
Yes it was actually. That's one of the major reasons why it exists...

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That is what Serge was saying.

What in VB makes it DB oriented?

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Originally posted by chrisjk
Yes it was actually. That's one of the major reasons why it exists...

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I don't think that's entirely accurate. It's primary use, as I've been saying, is databases, but it contains many other features that are non-database related.

Guys, Check this out

The fact that the bloke at MS thought, "Hmm, we need something that's easier/better(?) than C is at db interactivity." And they made a pretty good job, dropping a data control on a form is about the hardest part!

And if both serge and I thought this, maybe there is some truth in it

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Originally posted by Serge
Guys, Check this out

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Hehe, you're quoting MS propoganda. :D

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Originally posted by aknisely
I don't think that's entirely accurate. It's primary use, as I've been saying, is databases, but it contains many other features that are non-database related.

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you're contradicting yourself.

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Originally posted by thinktank
Perl is a Scripting Language ..
CGI - Common Gateway Interface is a standard by which an application running in a server can service a request from a client.

ISAPI - A Standard like CGI. Here unlike CGI multiple instances of the web application are not spawned there by saving server resources.

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right, read this

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PHP 4 for Windows comes in two flavours - a CGI executable (php.exe), and several SAPI modules (for exapmle php4isapi.dll). The latter form is new to PHP 4, and provides significantly improved performance and some new functionality. However, please note that the SAPI modules are NOT yet considered to be production quality. The reason for this is that the PHP SAPI modules are using the thread-safe version of the PHP code, which is new to PHP 4, and has not yet been tested and pounded enough to be considered completely stable, and there are actually a few known bugs.

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and perl is not a scripting language, It derives from the ubiquitous C programming language and to a lesser extent from sed, awk, the Unix shell, and at least a dozen other tools and languages.
but all in all I agree with you about php and perl. so I'll be quiet now. ;)

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Originally posted by chrisjk
you're contradicting yourself.

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No I'm not. Something's primary or intended use may not be its only use.

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Originally posted by scoutt
and perl is not a scripting language

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Ask Larry.

I would say it is a scripting language because more times then not, you run it through an interpreter, not a compilier.

Besides, Sed, Awk, and the others are scripting languages. Perl was written in C/C++, yes.