Evoulution

What if action-reaction is taken in account :

If the forces of the universe force the components (galaxies and so forth) to move away from each other until the point that these forces are "overruled" by other forces that force the same components back towards each other (ad infinitum).

If I extrapolate : what if life starts from the ashes of previous life i.e. life starts with simple molecules and evolves to higher beings which in turn destroy themselves or are reduced to the very fundamentals (disasters, changes in climates, whatever ...).
After this cycle, the process starts all over again but this time slightly different (external conditions).

What if we're only a part of a grand cycle that starts over again at some point in time ? Then there would be no beginning or no end.

Of course question is then : where do these forces come from :-)

damn forum :p

DWillems: that's more or less the closed universe theory. Or at least I think that's what you meant.

I know it is the closed universe theory. I was merely stating that it is possible that life and evolution here on earth follows the same principles.
Who knows eh ?
Who knows how many universes are out there ? Is there a superuniverse in which all the universes float ?
We call it universe because it's dimensions are far greater than the reach of our measuring equipment.
Perhaps there is a universe entirely made out of rubber like a huge bouncy castle :)

The point was : did life start "somewhere" or are we just another stage in an eternal evolutionary cycle.

Quote:

---

The point was : did life start "somewhere" or are we just another stage in an eternal evolutionary cycle.

---

If life was wiped out entirely (say at the big crunch) we would still need to explain how it started up again. If life was never wiped out then we would no longer need to explain how it came about.

Just Hoooo izzz that Super hero....?

Where did these forces/that force come from that created this stuff we call life....?

For me, at any rate it's all belief & faith, I no more wish to know how I this life came about than I wonder how every day gadgets work....

I think you naturally come to an acceptance of some kind of 'higher' entity that fits & works for you... Be it named or innate, questioning all things for answers all the time to the most minute & macro-level detail to me only serves to heighten the frustration & thirst for knowledge, ultimately leading to missing out on the 'living' as it is now.

That to me is more important than where I come from: How I live now, and ultimately where I'm going !

Now the latter of these two could be inexorably linked with my bleief system of where I came from...

(just where is that fig leaf...)

Pee

I think what you're realy asking is why the universe exists attall (whether it was always here or was created) as opposed to not existing.

I don't think that question has an answer. The fact remains that the universe exists, it didn't have to but it does.

What is of interest however is how the universe gets from one state to another. Those are the sorts of questions we can answer (eventually).

Ultimately... o'course being wierdly wacko.....

how do you know anything exists at all ??

Perceptively, tactile, sensually you trust in yourself to know these things, I think the term 'standing on the shoulders of giants' ??

As in, could we not be one of your multiple persona's ??

How do you know its not ? Because we reply to you ???

Could this not all be a fabric of your imagination in your pure energy state that has perpetuated & transcended mutating constantly ?

Or should we not just concern ourselves with whether there's a higher purpose for us as individuals to exist & get on with trying to live better ?

After all, Ego's aside, one of the reasons wer'e on this board is generally to help people out ? Bit humane for pure energy that isn't it ?

Pee

Quote:

---

As in, could we not be one of your multiple persona's ??

---

What you're suggesting here is called Solipsism. You should have a chat with Kedaman about it.

Obviously, I can't prove that my mind is not the only thing that exists but I do not think it likely.

What you should ask yourself then is why you're trying to convince one of your 'multiple personas' (me) that you are just a figment of it's imagination?

I choose to believe that you are not just a figment of my imagination because you are complex and (seemingly) autonymous and, at the end of the day, I have to go on treating you as if you do exist outside of my imagination so what's the point in believing that you are just a part of my imagination?

The solopsist view point is all very well but it is indefensible because we are still forced to go on behving as if it's not the case.

My point is the forebearing of such an idea, that is, that here & Now are more important that what we have come fromand the notion of our purpose other than that of pure hedonism... , the importance that we place on trying to understand where we come from is to me of lesser significacance than what we are now.

Of course the Solipsism standpoint is indefensible, but it does place in context that which we are now.

We could at this point slip neatly into the nature nurture blah.....
To me, most people I encounter spend ages working out for themselves what 'life' is all about, so much so, that when they finally cop on to it, they're either dead or too decrepit to live it out ?

So simply put, if we are to spend so much time working out how & why we're here, would we not better serve ourselves in understanding ourselves as individuals in the here & now, whatever our provinence and working out of that to understand that which we may become ?

The future's sooo bright....


I gotta wear shades....

Pee

So the topic has chnaged from evolution of man to the evolution of the cosmos. let me put my views {actually conceived in my dream }

Take a look at a decent illustration of atoms and take a look at an illustration of the solar system. What comes to your mind ?

I have some gut feeling that our solar system, stars, and other cosmological structures are *just atoms of another super structure* and in the same way it is equally probable that our atoms are the stars and galaxies of a micro cosmos.

I guess, those inhabitants of our micro cosmos and those for whom we live in an atom, are in constant search for other life forms. yet, we are unable to communicate with either of them.

well, thinktank

I don't think that way. actually the comparison isn't really possible. The view of our microcosmos as you describe it is a rather simplified model taught in school to make people understand what is going on. If you start considering wave/particle dualism, quantisation and all this there is a big difference between macrocosmos and microcosmos. In fact, if our solar system worked like quantum physics on large scale, it would be a short and very painful experience for us. so it is most unlikely that there are again universes hidden, for us invisible, in the microcosmos of atoms. what exists beyond our normal world, beyond our universe, of course no one knows. If there exists some again larger structure, it will most likely have totally different properties and characteristics than what we experience in our universe.