Official: George W Bush is Stupidest President in 50 Years

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You are trying to make out (as do other muslim fundamentalists) that everyone is attacking and getting at muslims world wide. You think that you are a persecuted for your race and religion. If you want to see real persecution then look no further than the Talaban in Afganastan or the way women are subjegated in countries like Iran.

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Talabans are good at their place. Women in Islam have more rights than any other religioius. Take an example: When a girl goes out with just a short and a bra then what do you think? She is just showing her whole body(nudity) That is why they dont have any shame in them!

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No race in history has been persecuted on the same level as the Jews have and even now they are not being able to live in peace as palastinian children are brainwashed to want to die (in the name of Islam) in the process of blowing up some more Isreali people.

As I have said previously, neither side is innocent in all this but all you are doing here is interpreting everything as an attack on Islam (and it's people) even when others try to help them.

Do muslims actually want peace? Do they want to live in harmony with their neighbours or does "holy war" provide an easy way for them to go straight to heaven? In peace time, a muslim must live a good life and earn his place in heaven but in war, all he must do is strap a bomb to his back, blow up some innocent people in the name of Islam and hey presto, straight to heaven!

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We want peace that is why we want the international support (of UN and America) to solive the problems but Israeal just wants war and nothing else! They are dismissing any kind Truce - but Palestine is always seeking for the Truce! We want peace over the whole world but you see...where are good people, there are bad people too...

Russia is the cause of war in the muslim sate - Chechnya - The chechan muslim want the freedom but that cannot..it is just because of this Russian terrorism.

India is the cause of fight in Kashmir. We want peace that is why we call UN for it but India is not accpeting any kind of UN agreement. They kill dozens of kashimi muslims everyday but nobody speaks against it. last week, 18 Hindus were killed and all the news sources reported that. And also the India government is seeking for war with Pakistan for killing those stupid 18 Hindus(These hindus were actually killed by the indian army to spread propaganda against the muslim mujahids and Pakistan)
Are not we human beings????
Don't we have any right to live here??
Are not we allowed to live in our own islamic state?
Why do you(Israealis) want to kill and destroy the Palestinian authority?
Cannot you live in Isreal?
Why do you kill those innocent babies (less than even a year old)? Why don't you go back to your home?

That is why we fight and will fight for the peace and our rights!!:)

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Talabans are good at their place. Women in Islam have more rights than any other religioius. Take an example: When a girl goes out with just a short and a bra then what do you think? She is just showing her whole body(nudity) That is why they dont have any shame in them!

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This is the biggest load of bollocks I have read in a long time. I never fail to be wholly and completely stunned by some people's prudishness and intolerance of ideas contrary to their own.

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We want peace that is why we want the international support (of UN and America) to solive the problems but Israeal just wants war and nothing else! They are dismissing any kind Truce - but Palestine is always seeking for the truce!

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What do you expect them to do when they are constantly suffering 'revenge attacks' by Palestinians? What would your decision, as a government, be if you were being officially offered peace, yet unofficially having suicide bombers running aruond in your country blowing innocent civilians up? Do you really, honestly expect the Israeli government to yield to the very terrorism you accuse them of? How naive are you? Maybe you don't see it as yielding but I can assure you that's how they will see it in the same situation.

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We want peace over the whole world but you see...where are good people, there are bad people
too..

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Doesn't this same rule apply to non-muslims?

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(These hindus were actually killed by the indian army to spread propaganda against the muslim mujahids and Pakistan)

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Oh really well maybe I won't bother watching the BBC World News or any of that anti-islamic propaganda any more then, I'll just come to you if I want the real news shall I? Oh yes, Indian civilians were killed just to make pakistan look bad, that sounds likely.

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That is why we fight and will fight for the peace and our rights!!

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As long as people retain this kind of attitude, there will be no peace.

You are missing a point:

Palestinian suicide bomber kill the israealians when Isralean attacks with the bombs , missiles, and rockets!

If Israeali army goes back to Israeal then nobdy suicide bomber will exist. There will be peace!!

There probably no point whatsoever in participating in a thread like this...since people like abdul insist on points that others have proven wrong many times..:rolleyes: . When you ask why the US wont allow Iraq to possess a nuclear arsenal your pretty wapred, sorry. I mean apparently he lives in Ontario, Canada. Well so do i. And i know that there is no shortage of objective(or nearly objective) information. you can get several perspectivs on the same topic if you wish, and that without the internet. Inspite of all this he asks questions like why Iraq should not possess a nuclear arsenal. Hmmm...lemme think...jee thats a real hard one..maybe because Saddam over there is a freiking dictator?? That he uses chemical weapons on his own people?? If Saddam had nukes during the gulf war...what he could have started WW3.
You insist that muslims everywhere are victims?? I mean muslims teach (brainwash?) their own children to be suicide bombers and kill as many jews as they can in palestine. They tell them that...what is it...70 virgins will be waiting fot them in heaven. right. that pile of crap stinks so bad i can smell it all the way up here in canada.
Well thats about all the energy im willing to put into this...:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by abdul
You are missing a point:

Palestinian suicide bomber kill the israealians when Isralean attacks with the bombs , missiles, and rockets!

If Israeali army goes back to Israeal then nobdy suicide bomber will exist. There will be peace!!

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Right. ok bud. See its because of people like you that countried like Aphganistan are able to "justify" everything they do. Apparently the taliban would rather that its people starve to death than let women work. great. Tell kids to kill as many jew as they can. Great. Ya i can tell you want peace.:rolleyes:

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If Israeali army goes back to Israeal then nobdy suicide bomber will exist. There will be peace!!

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No there won't. The only difference is that the army won't be there. There will still remain a culture of dislike, distrust, and in some cases even hatred among the two societies. You just have to take a look at Northern Ireland to see what that kind of atmosphere can do. I'm guessing you know f*** all about NI though, because muslims aren't being 'oppressed' so they probably don't matter to you.

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You are missing a point:

Palestinian suicide bomber kill the israealians when Isralean attacks with the bombs , missiles, and rockets!

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You are missing a point:

The Israeli military attacks when their nation is being subjected to suicide bombings and general acts of violence!

Oh wait a minute, does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, it's the exact same thing you said but from the other point of view. Of course, you must be right though because you're on the islamic side, and Islam can do no wrong can it. They're the most liberal and tolerant religion around, with so many rights for its citizens. Just look at Afghanistan.

Good grief.

Well, I don't think we have to worry about a nuclear holy war. Sadaam would be the only one who would make such devices, and he is even less bright than George W. He ordered thousands of Playstation 2's that he was supposedly going to make a supercomputer from. This is a true story, too, it was in Wired.

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Originally posted by goudabuddha
Well, I don't think we have to worry about a nuclear holy war. Sadaam would be the only one who would make such devices, and he is even less bright than George W. He ordered thousands of Playstation 2's that he was supposedly going to make a supercomputer from. This is a true story, too, it was in Wired.

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No, saddam is making the nuclear weapons to defend his country. But America is making these kinds of weapons to attack on the other countries. Don't you know that America attacked on Pakistan and Afghanistan with blastic missiles? Is America making these weapons for peace then??

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No, saddam is making the nuclear weapons to defend his country. But America is making these kinds of weapons to attack on the other countries.

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This just doesn't make sense. Please explain to me how a nuclear warhead is going to defend his country. What is he going to do, hide behind it? Is the US (and the UN in general, although the US is the main influence in this) on the bring of launching an all-out nuclear attack on Iraq?

If so, why don't they get on and do it right now, before Saddam Hussein gets his hands on a nuke? Surely now is the moment to do it. So why are they waiting? "America is clever" remember, they'll know exactly when to strike.

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Talabans are good at their place. Women in Islam have more rights than any other religioius.

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You have got to be kidding, right???? Just read the quote below and try to saw that again!!!!!!!!

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Choong-Hyun Paik, Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Afghanistan, told the Commission that the policies of the Taliban movement, which now controlled Kabul, the capital, had resulted in major violations of human rights, especially of women, who were prohibited from working or attending school, had to wear shroud-like clothing, and were reported to have been beaten severely with car antennas, chains, and water hoses for not complying with the Taliban dress code. There still was not sufficient will on the part of various fighting factions to reach a political solution to the country's 18-year-old internal conflict, he said.

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And just incase there is any doubt as to the authenticity, I found it on the UN website www.un.org

I expect that will be 'for their own good' Katie, I mean just imagine what effect it might have if a man actually saw a woman's face! Or even worse, her hair!

I shudder to think. Men and women might actually treat each other as equals.

I would still like to hear him try to explain how "women in Islam have more rights than any other religion". What rights do they have?

Talabans:

Talabans dont want the women in there to wear western dress at Wetern women dont wear Afghanistani women's dress. That makes a little sense:)
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Originally posted by HarryW
This just doesn't make sense. Please explain to me how a nuclear warhead is going to defend his country. What is he going to do, hide behind it? Is the US (and the UN in general, although the US is the main influence in this) on the bring of launching an all-out nuclear attack on Iraq?

If so, why don't they get on and do it right now, before Saddam Hussein gets his hands on a nuke? Surely now is the moment to do it. So why are they waiting? "America is clever" remember, they'll know exactly when to strike.

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You already said it: They will exactly know when to strike.

Why should America strike? Is he she making peace by doing that? I would call that UN is , in reallity, America.
Why is not UN checking America's dangerous weapons? That is because America does not check its own weapons!

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Originally posted by barrk
I would still like to hear him try to explain how "women in Islam have more rights than any other religion". What rights do they have?

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It is a lot to explain! Just read the web pages below:

http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/womenrights.html
http://www.themuslimwoman.com/herrig...mensrights.htm

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Originally posted by abdul


No, saddam is making the nuclear weapons to defend his country. But America is making these kinds of weapons to attack on the other countries. Don't you know that America attacked on Pakistan and Afghanistan with blastic missiles? Is America making these weapons for peace then??

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You're missing my point. My point was that Sadaam is a dumbsh*t for ordering thousands of PS2s to build a supercomputer with.

Islamic people want peace???

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A suicide bomber detonated his explosives in a crowded pizzeria in central Jerusalem at lunchtime Thursday, killing at least 15 people including the bomber and at least five children, and wounding almost 90. The militant Palestinian group Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the bombing at the Sbarro restaurant, the second deadliest attack in the 10 months of Mideast violence

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You still haven't answered my question. What rights do Islamic women have???

I'm sorry but I can't open those links here. I would really like to hear your interpretation of women's rights though since you made the statement I'm sure you have an opinion.

Man America should just nuke em all...

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Originally posted by AgentBxb
Man America should just nuke em all...

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I know, there'd be a lot less war and stuff if we just killed everyone in the middle east. George W might be stupid enough to do it, too!:cool:

Abdul, those links about women's rights are just explaining what the religion says, it is absolutely nothing like the situation in Afghanistan.

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Talabans dont want the women in there to wear western dress at Wetern women dont wear Afghanistani women's dress. That makes a little sense

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Do you think it makes sense that a woman should be killed if she doesn't conform to the dress code? Do you think western women would be persecuted like this if they were to wear Afghan-style clothing?

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You already said it: They will exactly know when to strike.

Why should America strike? Is he she making peace by doing that? I would call that UN is , in reallity, America. Why is not UN checking America's dangerous weapons? That is because America does not check its own weapons!

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What are you talking about? Why doesn't the US nuke Iraq then? Why not? Answer the goddamn question!

What would the UN check the US's nuclear arsenal for? What would it achieve? That arsenal is under the control of a democratic system of government, not a single dictator in a country nobody much cares about apart from the fact that Saddam Hussein has a big mouth and is very willing to use it to convince everyone he can that he's a victim. The Iraqi people are victims, but they're victims of his mismanagement of their country.

Why did Iraq invade Kuwait by the way? It was quite a while ago, and I've forgotten.

Why can't you open the links?

Anyway, as I said that its a lot to say and the links had some religious proves about women's righs in Islam.

Simply, we are are following our holly book - Quran. Everybody think women do is written and ordered in Holly Quran. Neither we can ignore our holly book and (I think) nor you ignore your holly book!
You will find more explanation of what I said if you follow the link(s)

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Originally posted by HarryW

Why did Iraq invade Kuwait by the way? It was quite a while ago, and I've forgotten.

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As I said, America forced Iraq to do so! I read that on the internet, and I will try to find the link for you if you like a proof!

Because I am an American woman who is behind a very strict firewall.

What rights are "given" to women in your holy book? The right to be beaten?

Because I am an American woman who is behind a very strict firewall.

What rights are "given" to women in your holy book?

You(Women) get punished if you don't follow the rules! Holly Quran does not say to beat a women but you can't just leave a woman to let her do anything!

Oh yes I'm sure you got that from a very reliable source.

Abdul your links say nothing. They are discussing women's roles in Islam not women's roles in Afghanistan. There is a VERY BIG difference between what the doctrine says and what the culture does.

Either you are avoidign the questions because you can't answer them or you're just not understanding what people are saying in this thread.

You say 'you' (You seem to be associating yourself and yoru ideals with every single muslim in existence) cannot ignore your holy book. Well I say they, in Afghanistan and to a leser extent in other places, are ignoring the meaning of the book and abusing it to achieve power by their own means. I say their actions are immoral and totally opposed to the ideals you say every muslim should hold. It's a farce, and it's not even funny.

There you go Katie, you ahve the right to be punished if you don't follow the rules. What more could you ask for?

You stated that Women in Islam have more rights than any other religion yet you do not know what those rights are?

Islam has a set of rules restricting female behavior but no other religion does. How then could this be true??

Is this an example of how fairly women are treated in Islam?? :

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Muslim women are not forbidden from going out in the community, working, or visiting relatives and female friends, if there is no objection from their guardian/husband and they are covered and behave and speak according to Islamic guidelines and, if necessary, escorted by their Mahram (a close male relative). However, a woman’s home should be the main base that she works from. Allah (SWT) instructed the wife’s of the Prophet (SAW):

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another

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The Right to Go to the Mosque
The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said:

"If someone’s wife asks his permission to go to the mosque, he should not deny it to her."

Women should be covered Islamically, according to the Muslim woman's dress requirements (see Her Dress).

At the same time, a woman’s prayer in her home is better, from the standpoint of her household duties and duties as a mother. Also it is better in the sense that it prevents unnecessary mixing with men. The Prophet (SAW) also stated on another occasion:


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So she has to ask permission to go anywhere??

how about this


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While Islam does not prohibit women working outside the home, it does stipulate that the following restrictions be followed to safeguard the dignity and honor of women and the purity and stability of the Islamic society, (the conduct of women, after all, is the "backbone" of any society):

1. Outside employment should not come before, or seriously interfere with her responsibilities as wife and mother.

2. Her work should not be a source of friction within the family, and the husband’s consent is required in order to eliminate later disagreements. If she is not married, she must have her guardian’s consent.

3. Her appearance, manner and tone of speech and overall behavior should follow Islamic guidelines. These include: restraining her glances in relation to any men near the work place, wearing correct Islamic dress, avoiding men, not walking in a provocative manner, and not using make-up or perfume in public.

4. Her job should not be one which causes moral corruption in society, or involve any prohibited trade or activity, affect her own religion, morals, dignity and good behavior, or subject her to temptations.

5. Her job should not be one which is mixing and associating with men.

6. A woman should try to seek employment in positions which require a woman’s special skills, or which relate to the needs of women and children, such as teaching, nursing other women, midwifery, medicine with specialization’s like pediatric or obstetrics-gynecology.


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hahha

ooops... I was talking about the rights of women in islam (not really Afghanistan) Look at Iran. The women take scarf and what is wrong with them..they are happy living!

Going back...

Yes, I agree that Afghanistan has a little more strict rules on women like:

beating (punishment is not beating)
not giving them education

These are the only things that Afghanistan has more as the women rights - but everything else should be true (like hiding your face and hairs) .

Yes, Women should get permission from their husdand or guardian/parents to do something.

I am not going to talk about the westren women but...these women have their own boyfriends even after they marry. And you know the stories of what happenes sometime between boyfriends or their girlfriends:rolleyes:

What, they have fun together? They enjoy each other's company? They have some respect for each other? They try not to infringe their freedoms? What exactly is it that bothers you?

Before you say "if X was allowed" or "if women were to do X", please take the time to consider what happens in societies where X is perfectly acceptable.

No, I am not talking about X here.

Killing and beating has happened lots of times between the boyfriend and his girlfriend. Great enjoyment?hmmm..:D

Here is some text that I remember I saw on the poster in my school:

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You boyfriend broke your jaw?
Call us at *********

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That is happening to the girlfriends!

Spot the deliberate mistake: That guy is doing something highly illegal, frowned up on by society, and he's generally being an *******.

Islamic society: The guy is doing something everyone expects, the authorities turn a blind eye to, and is still generally being an *******.

It is unacceptable (to me at least) and just plain wrong either way.

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Islamic society: The guy is doing something everyone expects, the authorities turn a blind eye to, and is still generally being an *******.

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Now, it is NOT an *******. And which *authorities* are you talking about?

Abdul....it is obvious to me that you are completely unable of independent thought but only able to regirgitate doctrine, I don't think there is much point in continuing this discussion.

He is still being an *******. He's beating up someone weaker than him both physically and socially, just because she lives by her own decisions and not his. Why should his decisions be any better than hers? Do you think women are stupid? Is that it? What makes them so incapable of rational thought?

If a guy is hitting a woman and it's not self-defence or an accident, that guy is a coward and an *******, and unworthy of anybody's respect, let alone the woman he's hitting.

our taxes pay for his security detail (i think)


they shoudl stop wasting our taxes.


the taliban are just cleaning out all the crap from within Afganistan. they know people want to and are trying really really hard to destory the taliban. they're trying to cleanse all the spies etc. YES tey are a little kookoo now. in Islam, ur not allowed to beat women (*** is up with that anyway?), ur supposed to care for her, provide her with all the neccesities and more.

the Prophet(SAW)'s wife was big businesswoman before/after she converted to Islam.


Muslims are peaceful people. but we won't be pushed around. If all we wanted was war and bloodshed, then this world would be a hell of alot worse than it is now...

Just so you know, im 15. nishantp says muslim parents "brainwash" their children. You know what? I'm not brainwashed. my parents dont say "oh, you should goto jerusalem and blow yourself up". to me, thats plain stupid. israelis have killed over 500 palestianians (according to CNN, as of this morning). Palestinians have killed around 150 (again, according to CNN as of this morning). be a little open minded.

90% of those 500 that died were kids, under age 18. they are throwing stones, not shooting guns. they dont know any better. you might say that their parents can explain to them. guess what? they're parents are all dead. if someone threw a stone at you, you wouldnt shoot them back withmissles/guns/rockets..whatever. Israel is overreacting.

suicide bombers - they're trying to send a message - "whatever you [Israel] do we will not quit or be pushed around". as soon as israel gets that and stops looking down on them, i can guarentee you the bombing will stop.

and just because a few people give a religion a bad name, doesnt mean the religion is bad. im not a bad person. im not violent. i respect females. so does every other muslim. yes, there are people who goto the extremes. that doesnt mean EVERYONE is extreme. if that were the case, then i guess all white people are unabombers.

all of the arab nations are corrupt, they each are inventing their own version of Islam. They're just puppets of the US. US doesnt care about them. they want the oil. once the wells dry up, the US is gone. Usama bin Laden. you hear his name and you think "Terrorist". hes not a terrorist. he's a freedom fighter. hes NOT against the US. he doesnt want war aginst the US. he wants saudi arabia restored back to true Islam. the US is standing in his way.


laterz :)
nabeel

[Edit]: oh yeah, my parents are STRICT muslims. my mom goes wherever she wants/whenever she wants. theres no frictions. my mom has a "buisness" (its not really one..she gets fabric cheap from places and sells them). yeah, she wears a scarf. not the WHOLE thing, but its modesty.

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Usama bin Laden. you hear his name and you think "Terrorist". hes not a terrorist. he's a freedom fighter. hes NOT against the US. he doesnt want war aginst the US. he wants saudi arabia restored back to true Islam.

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He has stated in many interviews that we (the US) are infidels and calls on his people to cleanse the world of us. He is MOST DEFINITELY against us.

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the US is standing in his way.

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So that gives him the right to train people to go to the US and commit unspeakable acts????

yeah i know.


hes gone kookoo in the last year. but before that. sorry i forgot to mention that :(

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the taliban are just cleaning out all the crap from within Afganistan. they know people want to and are trying really really hard to destory the taliban. they're trying to cleanse all the spies etc. YES tey are a little kookoo now. in Islam, ur not allowed to beat women (*** is up with that anyway?), ur supposed to care for her, provide her with all the neccesities and more.

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What if the women don't want to be taken care of, what if they want to be allowed to take care of themselves? How would you like it if you weren't allowed to do your own thing, you had to let someone take care of you? How much would you hate having your independence taken away?

What you're takling about is the doctrine, what's written down on the paper. That isn't what's actually happening, and it's what actually happens that matters. I'm not getting at Islam here, I'm responding to the attitude that everybody is against Islam and Islam desperately needs to fight for its freedom. The fact is the doctrine isn't followed like Islam says it should be, and Islamic cultures hide behind what the doctrine says, ignoring the fact that they don't actually do what it says.

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suicide bombers - they're trying to send a message - "whatever you [Israel] do we will not quit or be pushed around". as soon as israel gets that and stops looking down on them, i can guarentee you the bombing will stop

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Here's a wacky idea: by using military force, Israel is also trying to send a message - "stop bombing us, it's really pissing us off and if you don't stop we're going to keep shooting at you."

Which standpoint is correct? Neither in my opinion. Both sides are as stubborn as each other, as up their own arses as each other, and instead of blaming everyone outside the middle east for the conflicts I think they ought to consider who's actually taking part in the violence.

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i respect females. so does every other muslim

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I think you know this isn't true. Maybe that's what the literature says, but the attitudes of a lot of people (Abdul included) clearly show that many muslims don't respect women like they respect men.

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all of the arab nations are corrupt, they each are inventing their own version of Islam

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This I can more or less agree with.

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They're just puppets of the US.

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This, however, I don't agree with. The US is not interpreting the Koran and telling the arab nations what it means. The US has oil interests, yes, but the morality of an entire culture, made up of many nations, is not the responsibility of the US, and if the arab nations have allowed themselves to be manipulated by the US in such a way that it corrupts their moral structure then they are as much at fault as the US is.