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Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Me, I miss Screaming Lord Such. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Ianpbaker
Simon - with the way labour are at the moment, there is also not alot difference over here as well. the easiest way to say it is all politics regardless of country are all completly fecked up
same here. He lived in my town :) becuase of my sense of humour, must be my dad that I've never met ;)
in seriousness though. "Power Corrupts the weak"
Katie
I don't know why you took so much care to avoid offending me with your last post, as far as I am concerned, there is nothing offensive about it whatsoever. :)
OK, I know there are differences between the parties but everything is relative. On certain key issues, there are stark differences. Generally speaking though, if I were to grade your parties on the scale from left to right, both parties would be hovering around the centre.
This is a natural trend in many countries around the world (including the UK) whereby parties, attempting to capture the "middle ground" move closer and closer together.
It seemed to me that Guv was expressing a frustration with the government in that you couldn't really change anything by electing a different party. Whereas with a company, you could just walk away and buy from someone else.
Hope you don't share his dress-sense... :DQuote:
Originally posted by Ianpbaker
same here. He lived in my town :) becuase of my sense of humour, must be my dad that I've never met ;)
Power corrupts everyone, not just the weak. It's a bit worrying that we have a PM heading for absolute power. :(
The US is mostly much more right-wing than European governments (except that bloke who was president of somewhere like Austria a while ago, the media didn't like him, remember?). Even the US Democrats would probably be considered right-wing compared to some European parties.
Hmmmmmmm....never having studied European politics very deeply I can't say if this is true or not, Harry. I do know that from what I see in the media the appearance is totally different than what you are telling me.
Left and right-wings are fairly subjective. Lately it seems that people are getting "left-wing" mixed up with "politically correct", which isn't always fair.
As a general rule, though, we Europeans are less prone to having right-wing mainstream parties than we used to be - although we have our fair share of maniacs, of course. Most parties are centre or a smidgen left of centre.
Mind you, since all my information is distilled via various media sources, I could be talking codswallop. The media tend to have their own slants and agendas anyway.
I think I agree with Harry on this one. Just take welfare and the health service for example.Quote:
Hmmmmmmm....never having studied European politics very deeply I can't say if this is true or not, Harry. I do know that from what I see in the media the appearance is totally different than what you are telling me.
The Tories (the right wing party in the UK) would not even dare suggest that we should do away with the national health service. Would the democrats be in favor of such a scheme? Would the democrats be in favor of increasing the welfare system to pay for as much as it does in the UK?
I would be interested to know the sort of image you get of European politics back in the USA. Do they seriously appear more right wing than the US parties?
No...not more right-wing than the Republicans but more right-wing than the democrats. But this is only true on certain issues. From what I have observed, the UK political platform is more closely aligned idealogically with the democratic platform. It also seems to appear (to me) that as far as global issues, the UK is more closely aligned with the republican point of view.
The Clinton administration tried for eight years to get a national health insurance program so that everyone regardless of their status would be ensured the best medical care possible. The republican controlled congress would not even discuss this.
Having checks and balances between the President and congress often results in getting absolutely nothing done! Very frustrating!
Katie
You are probably right there (environmental issues aside). Britian, when it goes abroad, prance about as if there is still an empire and that we still own the world. The demise of a (once) great nation is always very humiliating for it's citizens (or subjects in our case) and it's hard to come to terms with the fact that we're not that important on the global stage anymore. :rolleyes:Quote:
It also seems to appear (to me) that as far as global issues, the UK is more closely aligned with the republican point of view.
I'd have to disagree with that. These days when Britain goes abroad, it tends to be with an attitude of "Sorry, I know we're insignificant and we've never done anything worthwhile in our history as a nation, and we don't deserve to be speaking to such mighty people as yourselves and oh, by the way, is there anything we did to you over the course of history that we can apologise for...?" It adds a whole new scale of meaning to the words "humble" and "servile".Quote:
Originally posted by simonm
Britian, when it goes abroad, prance about as if there is still an empire and that we still own the world.
National pride is severely lacking in our leaders, and I'm rather bothered that they seem to think that being British is a cause for shame.
Katie, why does the UK seem right-wing? I'm surprised.
When we do stupid things like throw our military weight around the UK is always there beside our president shaking his or her head and saying, yep! Whether the cause is military or economic sanctions it appears to me that the UK backs the right wing policies...this may be mainly due to the fact that you are our allies but I have never heard mention of a time when we did something stupid and you said, "Wait, that's stupid! You're on your own on this one!" I do find it quite admirable that you did so in regards to the Koyoto summit!!!
Maybe I'm either too young or too cynical but I don't recall ever feeling particularly proud of our government :eek: :rolleyes:
A government is a collection of politicians. Not an easy thing to be proud of.
Simonm: I reread a previous post of mine to verify my memory. A lot of you folks seem to scan rather than read posts. I am referring to your following remark.I have always considered you and most others who post at this site to be very intelligent. Did the following imply that I did not think you were intelligent?Quote:
An I'm sorry if my distrust of big corporations conveys a lack of intelligence.
I thought I was implying intelligence and disagreeing with an opinion..Quote:
Simonm: It saddens me when I see intelligent people more worried about big business than big government.
Guv
I have addressed this question in another thread so I won't go into it again here.
I do however, resent the suggestion that I skim through peoples posts. I honestly believe I read other peoples posts more than some people do.
I don't think this is an example of Britain being right-wing. More a case of Britain jumping when the US whistles. I think Britain should stand up to America on more issues than they do, particularly the proposed "son of start wars" project (which threatens to do nothing but upset the world balance of power).Quote:
When we do stupid things like throw our military weight around the UK is always there beside our president shaking his or her head and saying, yep! Whether the cause is military or economic sanctions it appears to me that the UK backs the right wing policies...this may be mainly due to the fact that you are our allies but I have never heard mention of a time when we did something stupid and you said, "Wait, that's stupid! You're on your own on this one!" I do find it quite admirable that you did so in regards to the Koyoto summit!!!
in some ways Britain is America's 51st state
Its only a matter of time before the UK takes full territorial control of Americashire :D
There seems to be a lack of historical breadth here somehow. The differing approaches to Left and Right wing are usually associated with local differences. For instance, America (the US) is a federal system with each state jealously guarding its own privileges. Different laws can be applied from state to state unless the juristiction is federal (e.g. for Murder). This is not the case in many European countries where strong central government is the rule.
The UK has a parliamentary system where the executive and legislature are fairly closely tied, in the US those arms are very separate with Congress often being controlled by a different party to the White House.
We, in the UK, are often suprised at the parochialism of the States but then have campaigns to Save the Pound (we seem to suspect that the EU is all a French plot - which it could be...)
Our right wing stance in Foreign affairs is probably caused by the fact that we won two world wars (and several Great Powers engagements prior to the 20th Century) but we consistently bugger up the peace - so we're keen to have another skirmish. Certainly saved Maggie T in 1983!
Phew!
Cheers,
P.
BTW Harry, it was Jorg Haider and he was Chancellor, not President!
This is an example of why you are percieved as being right-wing to me. This is what I see of UK politics in the media and I have no other basis for my belief. I'm sure there are a lot of misconceptions you have about America because the only news you get about us is what the media wants you to see.....we're actually quite a lovely bunch of people.;)Quote:
Originally posted by simonm
[BI don't think this is an example of Britain being right-wing. More a case of Britain jumping when the US whistles. I think Britain should stand up to America on more issues than they do, particularly the proposed "son of star wars" project (which threatens to do nothing but upset the world balance of power). [/B]
Us deceived by our own media? Inconceivable. I trust the media implicitly and rely on them to paint a completely accurate picture of the rest of the world. :rolleyes:Quote:
I'm sure there are a lot of misconceptions you have about America because the only news you get about us is what the media wants you to see
:D thats very true, im sure in schools o'er in England they hurry over the revolutionary war, but in our history classes we spend a whole week on it (boring ***** might i add)
we don't have mandatory history classes. I've never done a day of history in my life...
god damn you suck!!!
?
Funnilly enough, they don't teach anything about the American war of independance. :DQuote:
...thats very true, im sure in schools o'er in England they hurry over the revolutionary war...
Infact, when I was at school, they didn't even mention the British Empire (as if it never even happened). It's like we're trying to pretend that it never even happened.
Hmm I think he's a little jealous :rolleyes:
I don't remember being taught much about the American independance thing, we spent a lot of time on World Wars 1 and 2 though, and the Middle Ages and all that lot. Hundred Years War, Wars of the Roses, Wars of This, Wars of That, Wars of the Other. A whole lotta wars to cover.
yeah... thats what Im saying, the gov't decides what we should and shouldn't know. Im sure there is stuff that happened over their that i have never learned about too.
Well they had a revolution, a civil war, Elvis, and a moon landing. There you are...everything you need to know about the US in a single statement. The rest can be gleaned from Sienfield....a totally neurotic country condensed into a half an hour show:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Skitchen8
yeah... thats what Im saying, the gov't decides what we should and shouldn't know. Im sure there is stuff that happened over their that i have never learned about too.
Now back to the cricket;)
First off. let's just say, I had plenty of choice in the last election for president of the U.S. in that I voted GREEN. Secondly, the word "fortiture" must be exclusive to the Brits because I have no idea what it means and neither does Mr. Webster.
Political parties in this country (U.S) are further apart than you realize. The big problem is, is that nobody speaks their mind and stands up for what they believe in. Look at the decision that that pansy Bush made this week about stem cell research. All he did was make a decision that he though would have the greatest impact on the greatest number of people. If you want to point fingers at America and her politics, start bitching by saying that nobody makes a stand for what they believe in. All they do is make the call that will win the most votes--Play center field and continue to get elected. I say bull sh@t! If you can not stand up for what you believe in, then you don't deserve to be president of the greatest nation on the face of the planet.
Sorry if that sounds arrogant.
Arrogant? Maybe. Confusing and circular? Definitely. What exactly are u trying to say? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by jcm900
Sorry if that sounds arrogant.
Arrogant? How could that possibly be seen as arrogant? :rolleyes:
I do agree though (from a general politician point of view, not US-specific). Realistically though, politicians that do stand up for what they believe in don't get elected.
or assassinated ( JFK )