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Yep. Dragging left/right with 4 fingers to switch through apps is good instead of opening the menu (button double click), but there's always some lag when you go to the next app probably until it gets out of background mode, so it's not completely smooth. The five finger pinch to exit the app is pretty useless though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Icyculyr
Hopefully they'll be pretty good. I think with all the improvements, as well as HDR, it'll be able to take low lit photos well. I wish they'd have put up large resolution low lit photos...Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Uh oh!Quote:
I merged the threads.
Sweet, I've used them before and I really like them. It's too bad they won't be putting them on the iPad 1, it worked well enough imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja_yu
Low light photos are the ultimate test of a camera sensor. A DSLR has a huge advantage here over compacts and phone cameras because of the much larger sensor area. Smaller sensors show up more noise when the voltage amplification is increased to boost sensitivity in low light conditions (increasing the "ISO" setting). I forget exactly why this is; something to do with smaller pits or some such. But it's the reason why small cameras are universally crap in low light.
Mmm, I see. Here's to hoping Apple did something amazing with the camera :pQuote:
Originally Posted by penagate
I trialled voice recognition at a law firm i used to work at (it was actually much better and much more accurate then i anticipated), and firstly i would like to know what "Simple voice recognition" is, as from what i could see there was nothing simple about it.Quote:
You're actually very wrong. This isn't simple voice recognition, Siri is very advanced and capable of understanding context and processing reasonably complex commands. I'd suggest you read up about what it can actually do before you go insisting it's capable of running smoothly on a 4. If you insist on saying otherwise, I shall wait to be proven right when it's fully tested.
Secondly as much of the processing will be done on the server i can see no reason why you would need a more powerful device to run the software, why do you think you need a more powerful device to use Siri?
There is nothing new or particularly compelling about this IPhone, but then when has that stopped Apple from making a shed load of money from it's latest model.
There's an app for that.Quote:
the second (or this time fifth) coming of Jesus
I'm with Gary too. All I really want from my phone is for it to be a phone. I did recently buy a Nokia E71 because the keyboard's handy for texting but that's it for me. I really don't need anything else.
I don't want it to be a camera. I own a camera already and my life isn't really interesting enough to bother taking photos anyway.
I don't need it to do voice recognition for me, the person I phoned can take care of that bit.
I don't need it to make a sound like a light sabre (although this is admittedly quite good fun).
I don't want to read books on it. I own books.
I don't want it to be a personal organiser. People who bought filo-faxes in the 80s were self important ******s and I don't see that anything's changed.
I don't want to surf the net on it. The internet's only really good for porn anyway and the ensuing activities get me arrested in public.
What are the odds we can set up a fight to the death between Siri and YotaMaker?
edit>I'm quiet surprised I got caught by the profanity filter there. Suffice it to say that 80s' yuppies spent alot of time throwing dwarves.
Ok, why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Icyculyr
What's the cost? $200? $300? (I have no idea, I just remember the early fiasco of the deflating iPhone cost). What do you expect to get for that money?
I ask this because I would have considered that, at one time. I wanted the latest and the greatest (though I couldn't afford it at the time). Now, there are several items I could purchase, but I got thinking about the cost and benefits of those items. For me, the decision would be this: I could go out for sushi 10 times for the cost of that phone. I would enjoy each trip uniquely and immensly. The phone....well, within a week or so, I wouldn't be able to point to a single feature that made my life a whit better in any way. For you to be spending that kind of cash, you must have some expectation that you are going to get some positive benefit from this phone. So far, you haven't mentioned anything that appears to really appeal to you, let alone anyone else. You do mention some things that are cool about it, and they are, but so what? How will they make your life better? You certainly won't be profiting from this, as you don't suggest that the phone will make you more money. Are you writing programs for it, and thus it is a test platform for you (that's why I had a PDA, and I didn't even buy it)? Is this solely for the purchasers high? Will you get laid more?
On what grounds do you make this decision?
Or to put it simply: We get that there are loads of features... but what are the benefits?
Actually, that's with a 2 year contract. After the two years you would have paid over $2.500Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Found this article regarding unlocked iPhone 4S.... http://t.co/z9x2flg0
-tg
Yes, the true cost of owning any smart phone is the amount of money you end up paying for the data plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja_yu
http://i.imgur.com/lPd9s.jpg
Sometimes it makes sense to buy the phone outright.
This year after my contract expires, I plan to go back to using a regular phone. One that will let me make calls and text people. For everything else, I will purchase a tablet.
That's actually a reasonable idea... one that has me thinking... since most of the time, where I'd be using the tablet would be at home, where I'd have the wireless network.... I could get the dirt cheep data plan. I might even be able to dump my phone all together since I also get a crackberry through work... people can call/text me on that...Quote:
One that will let me make calls and text people. For everything else, I will purchase a tablet.
-tg
Well, it was in reply to what baja making it sound quite simple. I don't believe it is, but I do believe Siri is more advanced (it seems so). We'll see soon enough whether I'm right or wrong though.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
Apple has not disclosed how much is done on the server vs the device yet. It's based on my seeing it in action, as well as what Apple has said about it. Additionally, I quoted to baja this:
Which seems to provide a reasonable explanation to it, although I can't verify it right now. I'm going to hedge my bets on it being too complex, although I may turn out to be wrong. It'll probably be the jail break community who discovers what's what first.Quote:
Unless they can come up with a clever work-around, no, it won't. The fourier comb amd Markov filter -- essential to turnning a stream of words into a tiny handful of contextually-cogent bytes -- runs in one of the two PowerVR GPU cores that is in the newer A5. The 4S has extra links between the GPU output and the baseband chip so that the Siri application has its own dedicated connection to the cloud processing farms (currently, just the one in Philadelphia), piggybacked on the primary stream to and from the cell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
This will be on contract, and it'll cost me about $10 or $15 a month for the 16GB model -- I'm hoping for the former. I may end up going with the 32GB model, I'm undecided right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
Why? Well, I'll go through it.
To start with it'll be so much faster. Just as the second iPad is significantly faster than the first, so too will the 4S be faster than the 4 and I so happen to be running the 3GS which is even slower. The 3GS does run iOS 5 reasonably well, but it just doesn't compare.
What kind of aspects of speed are we talking about? Well, on one hand you've got general "zippiness", everything opens quickly, web browsing is incredibly fast, switching between apps will be much better as well due to 512MB RAM (instead of 256MB) as well as the faster LPDDR2 RAM and even more so if it turns out to be 1GB of RAM.
And then on the other hand you've got the significantly faster graphics, and I do like to play games on my phone. (Particularly any with beautiful graphics, such as Infinity Blade or even more so Infinity Blade 2 when it is released.) Another plus, is the 960x640 326 PPI retina display, compared to my 480x320 163 PPI display.
(Not to mention due to the speed I'll be able to use much more processor intensive apps such as iWork for iOS, and the like.)
Then you've got the camera which is leaps and bounds and leaps and bounds above what I've got and I do use my camera although it's absolute rubbish in low light, and barely much better with good lighting. I could go through the benefits of the camera on the 4S, but I've done that already. The video camera is also great, and I do shoot videos here and there as well. (I'll do it more when I can actually take good quality stuff, too.)
It's got a nicer case in my opinion, a significantly better antenna (as well as pseudo-4G speeds) and much better battery life than a brand new 3GS yet alone my one and a half to two year old model. Siri has piqued my interest and I hope I find a nice use for it however it isn't necessarily a reason I'm buying it, although I do think it is pretty cool. I also believe it has a better mic and speaker.
All-in-all, I'll have a significantly better phone in every regard and I'll enjoy it much more. That's worth it for me. Additionally, I am a developer so I may test apps on it as well.
I might even like to use my HDTV as a screen to play games on or mirror the phone's display to the HDTV. (You can even do split-screen matches with Real Racing 2, for example.) I can't currently do any of that that with my 3GS. I also can't make a wireless WiFi hotspot (only via Bluetooth can I share the connection.) I could go on, and on, about what my 3GS can't do but I'll leave it at this.
I do understand your analogy about Sushi, that's something I like myself. However, in that instance I would rather have a much cheaper meal, such as lentils, to save the money to get the device which will last me another two years or so. I see myself getting far more enjoyment out of the device than the food.
Only 199$ for iPhone 4 ?
In India, it's more than 750$, I think : http://www.priceindia.in/laptop/airt...ffer-in-india/ :eek:
That's on contract. Outright the price is more expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by akhileshbc
I thought I'd quote this info about Siri by someone who seems quite educated on the subject (by the same guy I previously quoted about Siri):
I can't say I've ever used Apple's voice control on the 3GS because it really isn't very good (not understanding my aussie accent very well, calling random people when I want a playlist, etc.), but if Siri can do this as well as do it well with background noise too (the same guy said it can for such and such reasons), I would most definitely find use for this. Will be great if it can handle multiple commands, too.Quote:
As someone who spent many years following speech recognition research, and someone who spent some time with the original Siri (through a US proxy so its response times were slow) before Apple bought the company just over a year ago, I can tell you this:
Siri is the closest you will ever have to having a personal secretary in your pocket. The fact that you get a powerful, intelligent personal assistant you can converse with in natural, context-laden spoken language with every iPhone 4S is going to double's Apple sales.
Here's an example of how Siri slots into the iPhone's functionality:
*annoying downloaded ringtone*
*glance to see who's calling, swipe to unlock*
"G'day Tony."
"Hey Eric, how's things?"
"Good mate, good, what's up?"
"Not much, just thought I'd bug you to see if you've got those Frankston proofs yet."
"Dunno. Siri, has there been any email from Mitchelson's this morning?"
"There are two emails from Tony Mitchelson in your in-box, two with attachments."
"Thanks, yeah, seems they're there mate, I'll go over them in a bit 'n get back to you with an okay."
"Well you can forget the second one, Eric, they've wanted another change. Can I catch up with you around three?"
"Don't see why not, Siri, appointment with Tony Mitchelson at three today."
"The requested time slot is unavailable."
"Bugger. Siri, what is scheduled from three onward?"
"Currently. Three fifteen, pick up Andrea from day care. Four pee em, pick up Alan from soccer training. Four--"
"Stop. Never have kids, Tony, I tell ya *laughs*"
"When did you get an American secretary, Eric? She sounds hot."
"*laughs* Mate, its a program in the new iPhone, best thing ever, and the missus never gets jealous."
"****, eh. G'day Siri!"
"Hello Tony."
"Fark!"
"*laughs* Look, afternoon's buggered, mate, got time for a late lunch?"
"Sure."
"You'll love this, mate, Siri, find me an Italian restaurant between Mitchelson's and here that is open for lunch."
"Checking."
"You're shittin' me."
"There is one Italian restaurant found. Would you like further information displayed?"
"Yes. Siri, send a copy of the information to Tony Mitchelson."
"Information card sent."
*distant SMS tone*
"Holy ****, Eric! A program does all this?"
"Yeah, I'll show you how it works over calzone & some red, I'll see you at Amici's in twenty, okay?"
No, I'm not shittin' ya, Siri really is capable of this level of interaction. Siri is double-ended; the bulk of Siri runs in Apple's cloudspace, whilst the input module in the iPhone listens for its keyphrase and uses a Markov filter running in one of the PowerVR cores to convert any subsequent voice input into word-symbols. The assembled string of word-symbols is passed through the basic response list to see if there is a local command, if it doesn't find a match the string is sent to the cloud, along with a context string-set, for advanced processing.
Siri is a game changer, mark my words.
(Link: http://www.mactalk.com.au/31/104349-siri-australia.html)
Now I know the conversation is fake. Or that dude is a retard, because frankly, Stephen Hawking sounds sexier.Quote:
"When did you get an American secretary, Eric? She sounds hot."
As it said in the quote, it's an example (not real). Siri doesn't sound too great, but hopefully you'll be able to change her voice. On Lion, I'm particularly fond of Samantha, she sounds quick real.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja_yu
I'm not gonna quote #53, as that's a pretty big post, but that's what I am addressing.
Most of the items you metioned come under the heading: Advertising. Frankly, you are talking about things that you 'might' do. That's the problem. All these things we COULD do, but what things will you ACTUALLY do? Of all the things you mentioned, there are two that you feel certain you will do: Play games, and take pictures (or video). Everything else you mentioned are advertising points with no actual value. It's faster? Who gives a rat's patoot??? If an app opens in a tenth of a second versus a half a second, it doesn't amount to a dimes worth of value. The speed is already so fast that the gains are not significant to our lives. Only new tools are of value, and those are only valuable if you need them.
You are talking about shelling out a lot of money for something where you can't identify any particular benefit to anybody other than Apple. Everything else you have mentioned is just an attempt to rationalize a decision you have already made. You haven't been able to mention a single thing that you can't already do which you actually WANT to do. You only mention things that you might consider doing. The only telling point is this line:
"and I'll enjoy it much more"
You aren't buying out of need, you are buying out of desire. You might very well enjoy it much more. In my case, the novelty would wear off in a day or two, or maybe a week at the most. Then you will be right where you are now. Why not find something that will change your life for the same amount of money?
When I buy camping equipment, it always fills a specific need. Either it replaces an item that has broken, or it reduces the weight that I carry, which material impacts my health. I try to follow the same principles for any other purchase, as well. What bothers me about your posts is that you can't seem to identify how this phone will materially benefit your life other than getting a shoppers high.
Or buy stock instead http://kyleconroy.com/2010/04/apple-stock
@FD I'll be arrogantly subjective (not my usuall self) : siri got nothing on my beloved yotamarker, siri can't even cuss, siri is just preprogrammed lowlevel voicereco, where as the yotamarker is an A.I platform capaple of branching from a chatbot to a warbot all the way to a megazord, able to be modifyed
to accept whatever data : text, vision, audio, think and output whatever : robotic actions audio, cusses.
and I say this knowing the contrar 3 (minitech, thebigB, wierddemon) will try their very best to naisay and stuff.
btw, iphone and galaxy S 2 cost in israel about 3000NIS, high import taxes over hya.
And don't forget it can be programmed into the human sized doll with a "working" warm mouth. I keep telling them to read the book but they don't listen.
I never said I was buying this out of need rather than want. I want the 4S because it offers a heap of features over my current smartphone, and those are indeed valuable to me. Even the iPhone 4 is a significant upgrade from the 3GS, but the 4S is just way beyond that. (I need not mention that most people buy a lot of things (in a wide range of categories) they don't need but nonetheless benefit from them in one way or another.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
You've perhaps not used the 3GS, and more so the 3GS running iOS 5. It's a nice phone, but it's noticeably slower than the 4 which is near twice as slow as the 4S in general. Overall, the entire OS regardless of what I'm doing is going to be snappy. I'll be able to play better games, use more intensive apps, and do everything faster. We're not talking about half a second and a tenth of a second but more like eight seconds and two or three seconds. Look at Infinity Blade for example, it takes up to a minute to load on my 3GS.
In other words, I benefit in every area of the phone. Video, camera, battery life, call quality, screen quality, zippiness. I will most definitely use it on my HDTV, and do pretty much everything else I said I "might do". I wasn't meaning to say that in a way that literally means I may or may not, rather showboating it over my 3GS. As I said, I am a developer and I will end up testing apps on it at some point when the need comes about (which it will, but not straight away).
Well, as a developer you'll benefit more from an older device rather than a new one, precisely because of the faster hardware. What works in tests on 4GS might not on 3GS or even 4. And, are you really a developer, or just like a lot of people who own a Mac and an iOS device that register in the developer program to get access to unreleased iOS betas, and make a (unpublished) soundboard/fart app to impress their friends?
I have a 2nd gen iTouch, a 4th gen iTouch, a 1st gen iPad, and a 4S. That should cover enough ground for any type of app I'll make.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja_yu
Haha, I am indeed a developer although I'm certainly no professional. I do enjoy getting the early beta's, however I'm currently working on an app which is pretty cool if I do say so myself -- I am a little biased though, although I won't say what it is until it's on the store :p
I'm also pretty sure I would never try to impress someone with a fart app. I can proudly say I've never bought one, or even considered it.
I did... it's now worth nearly three times what I originally paid for it. Had I been on it 6 months earlier, it would be worth 5 times the amount I would have paid for it. Oh well... it's still my best performer.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja_yu
-tg
Yeah, you need not. I regret that fact, but it certainly is the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Icyculyr
Yeah....my phone is as fast as I choose to speak, and changing the OS won't influence that. I think I have 0G, but I'm not even sure if it counts as that.Quote:
You've perhaps not used the 3GS, and more so the 3GS running iOS 5. It's a nice phone, but it's noticeably slower than the 4 which is near twice as slow as the 4S in general.
Haha, I take it you have a cellphone and not a smartphone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Why do they call it a smartphone? Clearly a phone (any device) can only be as smart as the person operating it. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Icyculyr
Actually, it's as smart as the person programming it. If it was as smart as the person operating it, we'd only have a handfull of smartphones in the world :)
I would suppose because it's more capable than a cellphone. It's practically a mini computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwalker83
It IS a mini computer, because it is a computer and it is mini.
I have a flip phone. I realized a while back that the one thing I want from a phone is the ability to make phone calls and a very long battery life. When smart phones first showed up, I took a look at them as a platform for the few PDA apps that I found to be useful. At the time, they all sucked royally. They still do in one regard: Batteries! They suck batteries like mad. Since that time, I have found that those marginally useful apps weren't all that useful after all. I am more interested in a phone that will run for a week without charging than any app that I could run on it.
so... I conducted some investigation
what did steve jobs actually built ?Quote:
The first touch screen was a capacitive touch screen developed by E.A. Johnson at the Royal Radar Establishment, Malvern, UK. The inventor briefly described his work in a short article published in 1965
also, I have talked to a person that works for a cellphone company and those smart phones brake fast and hard I was told. psp seems better to me.
and another thing, would it hurt them to sell the smart phones with a walkthrough of how they are built fromm the white sand to chip stage ?
I see. The 4S claims 8 hours of battery life on 3G. I'm curious, what does a normal cellphone get? Do you have any idea? Are we talking 16? 32? Etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Apple was the first to put it on a consumer phone -- at least one that sold. And they've got a LOT of multi-touch patents for stuff they've done. There might be more, I don't know that much about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by moti barski
I'm not sure what they claim, but back in the day I used to have an Ericsson T20 that easily did a week without charging. Apple also claims the iPhone 4 can do "up to 300h stand by", there's no way on this earth I can get even close to that. Almost 13 days? I can't get close to half of that, and that's literally with it just sitting on the table not even using it.
It can certainly get that amount of time... if you never call, text, or run any apps on it... and just left it at factory spec level. Often those numbers are meaningless... just like the MPH numbers from the EPA on cars...
I get somewhere between 8-10h out of my Droid X... when I actively use it. So at night, I plug it in. In the morning, it's ready to go... only times I've ever had an issue was when I'd forget to plug in at night. But then I carry a spare cable at the office. And a car charger. I think the only time I ever actually ran out was when I was in transit on a trip.
-tg
Ordered a 4s on Friday to replace my now three (almost 4 I think) year old LG Dare. Major upgrade for me. My current phone is just about to fall apart. It will be nice to send texts at a normal pace, actually be able to use my 1 key, and finally be able to get my email on my phone. I would have just bought the 4 but I think the only models available at the 100$ price were 8 gigs and I was wanting a little more storage than that for music and games.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to it. I don't think it is a magic revolutionary device that will turn my world upside down, but I do think it will serve its purpose as a nice phone and entertainment device.
No you won't. You might have a significantly better camera, games console, personal organiser, robotic secratary and general gadget but your phone experience isn't going to be significantly better in any way.Quote:
All-in-all, I'll have a significantly better phone in every regard and I'll enjoy it much more.
I think that's my problem with this. For all of the above there's a better solution. It just may not all be bundled on to the same gadget. Smart-phones move you into a world where you compromise quality for convenience. You don't need to carry a bulky camera any more but the quality of the shots you'll take won't be as good as if you did (the content'll be rubbish too if the general contents of facebook is anything to go by). You'll be able read on the train without carrying a book, but I like books and I really don't believe the experience is the same. You'll be able to listen to music wherever you are, but I'd rather listen to music in comfortable armchair with a glass of wine.
Convenience is all well and good but not if it destroys the experience. Then again maybe I'm just old. I'd still rather visit my freinds than phone them and I'd rather phone them than text them. Life should be inconvenient sometimes because that also means life can be slow. And a life lived at break-neck pace is a life where no experience is ever truly apreciated.
You know, I've noticed a very common element/theme in all of these discussions. It seems like most of these discussions stray from the actual objective analysis of hardware and features and delves deep into the subjective realm of what a particular person thinks is a good phone for them. Reading through this thread, and the other apple product related threads, all I see in every person's post is "I".
Quote:
You'll be able read on the train without carrying a book, but I like books and I really don't believe the experience is the same.
Quote:
he one thing I want from a phone is the ability to make phone calls and a very long battery life.
Not going to bother going through the rest of the thread because it would be pointless to do so. Buying a phone is like so many other consumer devices in which you purchase something that suits you. You may not care to use voice software, but to someone else that may make their lives much easier. You may not care for a camera in the phone, but for me that might mean a decision in choosing one over the other. Reading through this discussion I'm not seeing discussion on why the hardware/technology is better in one phone over the other. Rather I'm seeing a lot of subjective opinions on what people think is a good phone for them and why the iPhone is not that choice. If you don't want or need the features that a smartphone offers, well of course you're not going to be interested in the device.Quote:
I want the 4S because it offers a heap of features over my current smartphone, and those are indeed valuable to me.
So far I haven't really seen any replies that talk about the device itself. Just a lot crap about peoples perception of apple. They market their devices in a particular way and it really hacks people off and it's interesting to see how that perpetuates in their discussion on the device. You end up with this, where people just trash the thing for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the hardware or really any logical reason on why the device is a poorer choice over another. With the last iPhone you had the antenna "problem", but with this release all you hear about are "It looks the same", "It's not really that special" etc. You also get review sites like gizmodo which bash the device for it's form factor in one article, yet two posts down are singing its praises on why its such an awesome device because it has a nifty camera.
It's pretty amusing honestly. Smart phone discussions have almost dwindled down to the "my team is better than your team" argument. It's great and all that you don't need a phone to browse the internet or take pictures, but that has little bearing on whether or not the phone is a solid device. It just means that for you, the consumer, it is not a viable option because you don't need those features and don't want to pay for them.
I'm interested in seeing the speed and benchmark tests that will be coming out to see if the phone really lives up to it's claim. Personally I'll just be happy to have a device that works like it should instead of fighting with the damn thing for 10 minutes to send a two line text. :)
My phone gets somewhere around 5-7 days, which would be 120-150 hours, roughly. It was better when the battery was newer, and the extended battery lasted even longer. However, the phone is now pretty old, the extended battery wore out and they are no longer available. The regular battery that I have is also fading a bit. If I spend the whole day on the phone, which I never do, I'd probably use up this battery in a day. I think I can still find replacements for this battery, but the times they are a changin'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Icyculyr