It’s the first hands-on review of the Apple Tablet!

so it's your fault kregg.... I should (iShould?) have known... now I'll have to wait an extra year to retire. My retirement fun dislikes you very much. ;)

-tg

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Originally Posted by kregg

I spoke to my eldest sister today, who is not a techie. When she saw the iPad, she loved it. No matter how many negative points I threw at her, she still wanted to own a iPad... that was until I explained to her it has no flash and no camera.

Now she is so disappointed with the iPad. I feel bad, like I've just kicked a puppy. At least her bank balance will thank me.

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I hate Flash. It needs Silverlight for Netflix! :sick: And if you mean front facing camera, agreed. Video Skype could have been the killer app. :cry:

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Originally Posted by Cander

I hate Flash. It needs Silverlight for Netflix! :sick: And if you mean front facing camera, agreed. Video Skype could have been the killer app. :cry:

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I hate it too, but when Steve said something along the lines of the iPad delivering the best internet experience ever, and then finding out that nearly half of the internet doesn't work on the damned thing for a non-techie user, it is massively frustrating.

Now here is the thing - if the iPad actually had Mac OS X, then I could actually attempt to download and install the damned thing.

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Originally Posted by kregg

I hate it too, but when Steve said something along the lines of the iPad delivering the best internet experience ever, and then finding out that nearly half of the internet doesn't work on the damned thing for a non-techie user, it is massively frustrating.

Now here is the thing - if the iPad actually had Mac OS X, then I could actually attempt to download and install the damned thing.

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I do have to say I think Adobe's response to no Flash on the iPad is laughable. They are throwing words out like proprietary. How about Adobe opens up the Flash specification and then maybe Apple could develop their own Flash support in Safari that isn't a resource hog. :mad:

It's not the fault of Adobe.... it's Apple that's the hang up.
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterso...flash-support/
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterso...VAw8Ew78lCMZA5

-tg

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Originally Posted by techgnome

It's not the fault of Adobe.... it's Apple that's the hang up.
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterso...flash-support/
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterso...VAw8Ew78lCMZA5

-tg

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It is both their faults. Adobe has never provided a plugin on OS X that hasn't been a serious resource hog. And the ARM version they produced was not the full version until very recently (Flash 10 wasn't ARM optimized until October I beleive). Apple is at fault for not saying 'Hey Adobe, lets work together' and not having open plugin support. But Adobe is far from being innocent. In fact they have been kinda dickish about Mac support for their products before.

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Originally Posted by Cander

It is both their faults. Adobe has never provided a plugin on OS X that hasn't been a serious resource hog. And the ARM version they produced was not the full version until very recently (Flash 10 wasn't ARM optimized until October I beleive). Apple is at fault for not saying 'Hey Adobe, lets work together' and not having open plugin support. But Adobe is far from being innocent. In fact they have been kinda dickish about Mac support for their products before.

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From a Linux user point of view:

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6...tviolinwz4.jpg

How about being on a platform where every single proprietary software (including drivers, etc) are badly done, if they even exist at all. To get upset that Adobe haven't made a plugin for OS X that isn't a resource hog is laugable. Have you tried using any of their products at all? All of them are bloated crap, and they all perform badly on any OS they are on. And don't even dare get me started on trying to use Flash on 64bit Linux.

The only reason Flash has done so well is because of how versatile the actual flash plugin is, despite how horrible it is to run. It's a damned necessary evil, and for a device that has claims to be the best internet experience ever, not having flash is euthanising your product for the average user, not the techie user, as you are so eager to point out.

EDIT: Also, this wasn't meant to be a direct attack as just pointing out/debate/etc. Please really don't take this post personally.

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Originally Posted by Cander

Geeks were dissapointed in the iPod, the iPhone, the GUI, and the mouse too. I have actual history to back up my points.

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Geeks aren't the market, like the iPhone this either succeeds as a fashion accessory or joins the long list of failed Apple products.

Personally after looking at the specs am waiting on seeing what the Microsoft product will have to offer as the iPad simply sucks the life out of the universe imho.

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Originally Posted by kregg

Now she is so disappointed with the iPad. I feel bad, like I've just kicked a puppy.

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Lol. I hate many uses of Flash, but there are some games and animations that I'd miss without it. I was willing to accept Apple's argument of "Flash is too much of a resource hog for a mobile phone," but to not have it on the iPad is surprising and ridiculous to me.

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Originally Posted by Cander

Imagine this. A device that docks to a keyboard for working on your financials, writing letters, or other productivity task at your home office. When you are done, undock it and either dock it to your TV to watch movies off the device, or keep it in your lap on the couch to browse the web while watching NBC. Need to go drop your kids off at the Super Bowl (metaphor alert :p), take it with you to the bathroom to read a book. Add in the possiblites of mobile gaming AND the quite real possiblity due to new APIs in the latest SDK that a dock could be created to play the games on your TV where the dock handle the control inputs and pushing the game display to your TV. And yeah I know, netbooks are cheaper and can do all that too. Well can you do all that and have it be an actual enjoyable experience? Every try reading an eBook on a netbook in the bathroom or on the couch? Ever try playing a game on a netbook on the couch? Not exactly ideal. The netbook is great, on a desk, but the experience is far from ideal.

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Don't confuse novelty value with productivity. There are devices and services that exist that cater to these needs. These are novelty value based 'needs' which are being created by the existence of the device. In practicality, you won't do this. I don't know who does read books on a netbook, bathroom or couch, but I'm not sure why the comparison is being made. And if you're in the bathroom long enough that you need a book, then you should really eat more fiber. If you're using it in a home office, then the question arises - why are you using it as the center piece of your home office? Use a computer. And yes, you said don't think like a techie, but if you're going to mention productivity, think multitasking. So it's not a productivity tool. It's an Internet+media consumption application. Like a phone. With a bigger screen. And thus, the endless comparisons.

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Originally Posted by kregg

From a Linux user point of view:

http://www.vbforums.com/

How about being on a platform where every single proprietary software (including drivers, etc) are badly done, if they even exist at all. To get upset that Adobe haven't made a plugin for OS X that isn't a resource hog is laugable. Have you tried using any of their products at all? All of them are bloated crap, and they all perform badly on any OS they are on. And don't even dare get me started on trying to use Flash on 64bit Linux.

The only reason Flash has done so well is because of how versatile the actual flash plugin is, despite how horrible it is to run. It's a damned necessary evil, and for a device that has claims to be the best internet experience ever, not having flash is euthanising your product for the average user, not the techie user, as you are so eager to point out.

EDIT: Also, this wasn't meant to be a direct attack as just pointing out/debate/etc. Please really don't take this post personally.

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I do not take it personally. But I think you missed the context in why I was saying that. Yes Adobe products sucks. That was the overall point I was making. My response was in context to who is at fault about no Flash.

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Geeks aren't the market, like the iPhone this either succeeds as a fashion accessory or joins the long list of failed Apple products.

Personally after looking at the specs am waiting on seeing what the Microsoft product will have to offer as the iPad simply sucks the life out of the universe imho.

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Throwing out the old 'fashion accessory' BS argument that everyone tries to use when talking Apple pretty much makes your argument worthless.

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Don't confuse novelty value with productivity. There are devices and services that exist that cater to these needs. These are novelty value based 'needs' which are being created by the existence of the device. In practicality, you won't do this. I don't know who does read books on a netbook, bathroom or couch, but I'm not sure why the comparison is being made. And if you're in the bathroom long enough that you need a book, then you should really eat more fiber. If you're using it in a home office, then the question arises - why are you using it as the center piece of your home office? Use a computer. And yes, you said don't think like a techie, but if you're going to mention productivity, think multitasking. So it's not a productivity tool. It's an Internet+media consumption application. Like a phone. With a bigger screen. And thus, the endless comparisons.

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Could you possibly have missed the point and context of everything I said any more than you have? If you don't know why the comparison to netbooks was made; if you are going to play strawman about the bathroom comment; if you think productivity just means multitasking; then I really have nothing more say. The context was quiet clear. You are simply try to break up what I said into separate arguments that become meaningless. Hint for one of your points, productivty in the context it was being used obviously refers to home productivity software such an spreadsheets. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Cander

Throwing out the old 'fashion accessory' BS argument that everyone tries to use when talking Apple pretty much makes your argument worthless. .

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You should do some marketing and learn how products are sold and exactly how products are viewed. Most if not all Apple products are not as good as their competitors products they are sold on brand and brand loyalty :rolleyes:

The iPod for example is simply a fashion accessory as is the iPhone. If another company had of released these products they would have been no where near as successful.

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Originally Posted by KiwiDexter

You should do some marketing and learn how products are sold and exactly how products are viewed. Most if not all Apple products are not as good as their competitors products they are sold on brand and brand loyalty :rolleyes:

The iPod for example is simply a fashion accessory as is the iPhone. If another company had of released these products they would have been no where near as successful.

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You are the one that needs to do some marketing research because you are so wrong. And if you had actually paid attention to anything I have written about consumer wants and needs, you might actually figure out the truth beyond that tired old drivel you heard someone else say on the internet.

And they say Apple users are sheep. lol

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Originally Posted by KiwiDexter

You should do some marketing and learn how products are sold and exactly how products are viewed. Most if not all Apple products are not as good as their competitors products they are sold on brand and brand loyalty :rolleyes:

The iPod for example is simply a fashion accessory as is the iPhone. If another company had of released these products they would have been no where near as successful.

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I'd agree with that last statement.... See Zune v iPod figures..... Apple's figured out the one thing that escapes other hardware venors, and that's sex sells.... the iPods/iPhone is marketed as a trendy, sleek, sexy object... and it (the marketing) works. It's not because the product is superior.

-tg

I don't know much about the iPad but 54 (had to just edit that from 53 because another post got in there) posts in under 48 hours is unusually high for any Chit Chat or non Chit Chat VBForums thread.

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Originally Posted by Cander

You are the one that needs to do some marketing research because you are so wrong. And if you had actually paid attention to anything I have written about consumer wants and needs, you might actually figure out the truth beyond that tired old drivel you heard someone else say on the internet.

And they say Apple users are sheep. lol

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Dude you are either being incrediably naive or Apple advertising has simply zoomed over your head.

Of course Steve could simply save some money on marketing as clearly his demographics aren't getting the messages his Marketing team are sending out. Now that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

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Originally Posted by techgnome

I'd agree with that last statement.... See Zune v iPod figures..... Apple's figured out the one thing that escapes other hardware venors, and that's sex sells.... the iPods/iPhone is marketed as a trendy, sleek, sexy object... and it (the marketing) works. It's not because the product is superior.

-tg

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A couple of the laptop manufacturers are trying sleek designs and pushing the sex part of it. Be interesting to see how they go.

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Originally Posted by Cander

Could you possibly have missed the point and context of everything I said any more than you have? If you don't know why the comparison to netbooks was made; if you are going to play strawman about the bathroom comment; if you think productivity just means multitasking; then I really have nothing more say. The context was quiet clear. You are simply try to break up what I said into separate arguments that become meaningless. Hint for one of your points, productivty in the context it was being used obviously refers to home productivity software such an spreadsheets. Think about it.

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Of course, I knew I was missing something the entire time I was writing the post. The point! *slaps forehead* "Be careful," I said to myself, "don't forget something important, or he'll use the strawman word again." Alas, I missed the point!

Yes, the context is clear. Very clear. You're attempting to use 'strawman' (trademark?) in order to avoid questions, points or other comments which don't agree with your "points" which all of us, clearly, are missing.

I will definitely think about home productivity, will you think about home productivity too? Let's spend some time thinking about what people do at home. Normal people, not the smart ones, but the dumb ones (who aren't programmers and who watch Big Brother and other reality shows). This is going to sound like an attack, sorry, but I think that your view of productivity or the benefits of this product are based on what Apple's view is. I want your view. Cander's candor!

The dumb typical user doesn't want a computer to browse the internet. Computers have too much maintenance needs. You have to organize your files into folders, move and maximize and minimize windows on the screen, obtain and use antivirus software, regularly install updates, find applications from millions of sources, etc. Users don't understand these concepts. They don't want to understand these concepts. And, they don't want to do that stuff.

The ipad requires the user to do none of those things that a computer requires. It should be updated sometimes, but it isn't the end of the world if it isn't.

Also, many users don't multitask on computers. So it is actually easier and better for them that the ipad doesn't allow it.


Everyone on this forum should be underwhelmed by the ipad. We should all think that it is stupid. Apple isn't targeting us. Apple is targeting the average dumb user. No one on this forum is an average dumb user, so we aren't impressed by the ipad. Apple is targeting people who want a device or appliance to browse the internet, not a computer.

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Originally Posted by Arrow_Raider

The dumb typical user doesn't want a computer to browse the internet. Computers have too much maintenance needs. You have to organize your files into folders, move and maximize and minimize windows on the screen, obtain and use antivirus software, regularly install updates, find applications from millions of sources, etc. Users don't understand these concepts. They don't want to understand these concepts. And, they don't want to do that stuff.

The ipad requires the user to do none of those things that a computer requires. It should be updated sometimes, but it isn't the end of the world if it isn't.

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This is the only point I can actually agree with, but the iPad comes at a high price for such an easy computer.

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Originally Posted by Arrow_Raider

Also, many users don't multitask on computers. So it is actually easier and better for them that the ipad doesn't allow it.

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Have you got any hard figures on that? On average, I've seen "dumb users" browse the web AND chat to friends over MSN Messenger. That is multi-tasking. That is one thing that the iPad cannot do.

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Originally Posted by Arrow_Raider

Everyone on this forum should be underwhelmed by the ipad. We should all think that it is stupid. Apple isn't targeting us. Apple is targeting the average dumb user. No one on this forum is an average dumb user, so we aren't impressed by the ipad. Apple is targeting people who want a device or appliance to browse the internet, not a computer.

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Like I've said, this appliance, if viewed as just something to browse the internet is far too expensive, even for an average user. Add the fact that the thing doesn't have flash, and that's killed it off. True, it has Youtube on there, but what happens if the average user wants to browse a site that isn't youtube and needs flash - e.g. Kotaku, or Gametrailers (the biggie that definitely needs flash). What is the user supposed to do then?

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Originally Posted by mendhak

Of course, I knew I was missing something the entire time I was writing the post. The point! *slaps forehead* "Be careful," I said to myself, "don't forget something important, or he'll use the strawman word again." Alas, I missed the point!

Yes, the context is clear. Very clear. You're attempting to use 'strawman' (trademark?) in order to avoid questions, points or other comments which don't agree with your "points" which all of us, clearly, are missing.

I will definitely think about home productivity, will you think about home productivity too? Let's spend some time thinking about what people do at home. Normal people, not the smart ones, but the dumb ones (who aren't programmers and who watch Big Brother and other reality shows). This is going to sound like an attack, sorry, but I think that your view of productivity or the benefits of this product are based on what Apple's view is. I want your view. Cander's candor!

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http://paradise.gen.nz/~simeon/lj/on...ternets_02.png

To make sure that this thread doesn't stay on topic let me comment on that Charlton Heston picture. That looks like him in Planet of the Apes. I remember he said that when they were shootinig it the actors dressed in chimpanzee suits would all group together when they ate separate from the actors that were in ape suits. Now do you see how this ties in with the ipad discussion? I don't but if you do let me know.

Now to get back on topic: the truth hurts.

Hitler's really upset.

iPad put the "i" in inane

Is it just me or has Apple products just plain sucked the last 11 years, I honestly haven't seen a worthwhile product from them for me in those years.

I would have gotten an iPod, except you need iTunes, so that products out. If they sold the iPhone for $40 with a 2 year plan and no monthly "data" fees then I'd consider getting one, there's just no need for that crap.

Apple makes products for people who don't know how to use electronics properly. If you don't know how to use a computer or a music player, etc.. then Apple is the way to go. If you are actually not technologically impaired, then you won't find Apples products very appealing, at least that is my experience.

Hopefully this thing comes to market, because it seems like the capabilities are much greater than the iPad.

http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-f...-secret-tablet

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Originally Posted by kleinma

Apple makes products for people who don't know how to use electronics properly. If you don't know how to use a computer or a music player, etc.. then Apple is the way to go. If you are actually not technologically impaired, then you won't find Apples products very appealing, at least that is my experience.

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i agree with that. My biggest annoyance is the fact that the apple people are usually fairly young and so people associate young people with knowing a lot about technology. So when some shmuck with an iPod tells someone how great apple is, they believe them because they "seem" like they now what they are talking about when it comes to technology. Just because you own an ipod and can sync ur lil wayne cd to ur ipod doesn't make you technologically knowledgeable.

and yeah, the courier looks incredible. I wish they would release some hard details on that so people will see other options to the iPad out there. If/When the courier does come out, it will probably own the iPad in every category on its features and specs, but yet it prob wont sell nearly as much. Its a shame so much of the population are so easily swayed by shiny white things...

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Originally Posted by kleinma

Hopefully this thing comes to market, because it seems like the capabilities are much greater than the iPad.

http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-f...-secret-tablet

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Yip, I have been keeping my eye on that one :)

Isn't the Courier just two ipads stuck together? Or is it too early to tell?

Far too early :D

They are still working on the sticky back plastic to hold it together.

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Originally Posted by mendhak

Isn't the Courier just two ipads stuck together? Or is it too early to tell?

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No you are thinking of the iPadPadi which Apple will be annoucing next week in a black turtle neck extravaganza

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Originally Posted by kleinma

No you are thinking of the iPadPadi which Apple will be annoucing next week in a black turtle neck extravaganza

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Presumably all of the hardcopy promo material will be on rice paper?