General Discussion / Chit Chat

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

thegreatone, if other forums you visit dont allow certain kinds of posts too then shouldnt that tell you something. ;)

As far as being unprofessional, when there is alot of posts on sexual innuendos, name calling, and generally inappropriate posts then yes, that is unprofessional in any context. Can you talk like that at your place of work? I think not. but you can talk about non-technical subjects just like at work during your lunch time etc. That should be a good guideline of what type of posts to make or not. ;)

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Not really what you wanted to hear, but yes i could freely talk about anything i liked at my place of work, from piracy to bad habits to sexual crap if i honestly wanted to. But i see where you're coming from.

Marty, i thought you'd take offense at my post challenging you. Hence the reason i'd thought i'd be warned. Luckily you listen to people, i like that.

Something i have to ask though, you object to Wallys comment, and have banned him for it, yet entire threads of random junk are perfectly fine? Seems strange. But still, it happens.

Thanks for furthur clearing things up mind. Helps a bit to see what you're trying to acheive here.

Robdog, actually, the other forums i visit for some reason don't like idle chatter at all, makes me kind of angry at the,. It happens anyway, and people get banned for it. I just thought VBF was different.

I can see that the AUP is there to be enforced though, so, i say good luck to you all.

As Martin posted in #40, we do allow idle chatter that other forums dont allow, just a small part of what makes VBF different. ;)

Personally I enjoy reading the comments made by some users. Even to my own posts I find them extremely humorous. Just my 2c though..

chem

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Originally Posted by thegreatone

Not really what you wanted to hear, but yes i could freely talk about anything i liked at my place of work, from piracy to bad habits to sexual crap if i honestly wanted to. But i see where you're coming from.

Marty, i thought you'd take offense at my post challenging you. Hence the reason i'd thought i'd be warned. Luckily you listen to people, i like that.

Something i have to ask though, you object to Wallys comment, and have banned him for it, yet entire threads of random junk are perfectly fine? Seems strange. But still, it happens.

Thanks for furthur clearing things up mind. Helps a bit to see what you're trying to acheive here.

Robdog, actually, the other forums i visit for some reason don't like idle chatter at all, makes me kind of angry at the,. It happens anyway, and people get banned for it. I just thought VBF was different.

I can see that the AUP is there to be enforced though, so, i say good luck to you all.

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Thanks for understanding.

We've decided that random junk threads are okay (why anyone would want to post in or create them I don't know but maybe I'll too old) as long as they are in accordance with the AUP. However random junk has no place in "serious" CC threads.

Wally's comment was of a totally different stripe than yours.

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Originally Posted by chemicalNova

Personally I enjoy reading the comments made by some users. Even to my own posts I find them extremely humorous. Just my 2c though..

chem

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I'm kind of with you here, i enjoy it too, but only when my question has been suitably answered. Otherwise it's plain annoying. (Unless it's real humour, not just "attach it to your left nipple")

No problem understanding now Marty, you've explained it alot better. Should make a great difference!

Wow. Banning Wally is just plain, um, silly. Cracking down on threads where people are flamed, or where the swear filter is skirted, or other blatant, purposeful AUP violations are going on is one thing. But, everyone pretty much knows Wally Pipp's posting style (as well as many others who have been made examples of recently), and if they don't and the word idiot offends them, then there are other issues that VBF can't help with.

I agree that there are certain members that are incurably rude to the point of being mean. If your moderators weren't buddy-buddy with them, they would have been banned long ago (more than once or twice for two or three days). But good Lord, bans like the recent rash may not make the points you think they do. If there's such a problem, maybe the moderators need a kick in the pants instead of the community that's been posting the same way for years. Yes, I said community - that thing that keeps you in business. Your rolling tanks into chit chat square and that's just plain dumb. IMHO, this is certainly not how you encourage people to post, which is, as stated, one of your goals.

Personally, I like chit chat and world events because one of the two usually has some decent debates between some armchair master debaters. The other, well, the other is the other and serves its purpose as well. I'd hate to see tumbleweeds blowing through it. Ah well, such is life.

the concern I have is regarding how the AUP is / will be intepreted.

Take for instance:

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Originally Posted by AUP

• You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harrass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

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where would (obscenity-free) friendly teasing fall in this?

the perpetrator may have meant it as friendly, the recipient may have recieved it as friendly, but a moderator might view it differently. what happens in this case?

does the moderator attempt to establish the feelings of those involved? (you've already mentioned that the mods don't have enough time) or is it going to be blanket banning?

this is a genuine query - i'm not trying to provoke or rile anyone.

Non-AUP-violating teasing is no problem as long as it's not off-topic. And if you are not sure how a tease may be interpreted then don't post it. Perhaps that makes CC less fun, but fun, although its allowed under many circumstances, is not the main purpose of CC.

I'd like to join the chorus encouraging CC to be CC. I've been around here for about four years now, I have never been banned, and I believe I have only had one comment censored, and I'm not even sure what that was. Therefore, I do believe that it is possible to stay within some bounds of reasonable speech, yet still be pretty much inane.

I participate in several forums on MANY different topics, as programming is only one of my interests. There is NO forum that I am aware of that is focused on a particular niche, as this one is, that has such excellent participation. If anyone knows such a forum on backpacking, sailing, robotics....let me think abit....well, ok, leave it at that...that boasts so many skilled and knowledgeable replies to a post in such a short amount of time, I'd like to know about them (I realize that sentence is a massive, poorly constructed, piece of linguistic butchery, but so what).

I don't believe this forum would be so good on the technical side if there was not CC. The reason is pretty simple: Technical talk does not create bonds. Keep all you discussions narrowly focused on a single subject, and you will NEVER form any kind of a relationship. CC is the diversity of life that makes this site what it is. Other forums fall short largely because they stay on topic.

The only technical forum that ever came close to this one was the old BPBasecamp backpacking forum, and even then it was only the sleeping bag forum that was so heavily traveled. That might seem odd, unless you had taken a look at that forum. It was nothing but an all out flame-war brawl between a single manufacturer, and a couple of malcontents. The war was stupid, juvenile, and had no winners, but it went on for a year or more, and in that time that single forum dwarfed every other subject. Not everybody participated in the war, but once the manufacturer was completely banned (he kept returning in differnt guises), the whole forum dried up. The war ended, and all the non-participants left with the participants.

We don't have that kind of a war (unless you recall Arc's immigration thread), but the point was that the mix of non-technical appeared to draw in the technical as well.

I agree with RD that people who never seem to learn have....issues, and that does have to be dealt with. However, you should not throw the baby....nah, that's an old cliche.

In summary, I strongly suspect that this forum is successful not inspite of CC, but BECAUSE of it. It would make an interesting sociology experiment, I hope some grad student is listening.

Marty and RD, you know I support your right to call it as you see it, and I generally agree with your judgement, but consider the possibility that CC is the strength of VBForums, not a liability.

I believe that most moderators would agree that CC is a strength of VBF but it also had been getting out of line. Here is one example.

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

I just banned Wally Pipp for 2 days because of his "Idiots" comment.

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That is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen .... :rolleyes:

Seriously guys, take a good look at the big picture. You have been destroying this place little by little for many months. And as for the mods and admins here having a bad reputation, yes, you do. Thats why I got out. The general consensus is a group of two faced, trigger happy, over the top police men.

Considering that you are in the best position to fight back against all this corporate piffle, why don't you? Maybe you don't want to, maybe you are afraid, maybe there is another reason. Maybe I shouldhave stayed and fought the cornor ... who knows.

Go back a year, two years, three years and compare the atmosphere. The evidence is there, staring you in the face.

This forum is like a school yard.

You mean a school yard at recess time :D

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Originally Posted by visualAd

That is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen .... :rolleyes:

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So your saying that calling people a name like that is ok and not a violation of the AUP?

Look 7 posts up ;)

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

So your saying that calling people a name like that is ok and not a violation of the AUP?

Look 7 posts up ;)

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Look at the context of the post. It's not rocket science ... the person who slapped that ban on deserves to bebanned himself. :rolleyes:

[Rodney King]Cant we all just get along?[/Rodney King] :D

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

We have, over a period of time, received PMs complaining. They also state that they will not post in CC anymore as they feel they were bully'ed out as they either were newcomers or regulars just the same.

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Yet it's alright for the moderators to bully people out of CC?

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

As far as being unprofessional, when there is alot of posts on sexual innuendos, name calling, and generally inappropriate posts then yes, that is unprofessional in any context. Can you talk like that at your place of work? I think not.

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Actually, yes, I can. I work for a massive multinational commodities trading company, in an IT department staffed with some very bright people who all have university degrees and at least ten years' IT experience - those are the minimum recruitment requirements. We're not a bunch of kids, bullies or hooligans - we're intelligent, grown-up adults with responsibilities at work and at home, probably the type of people you want to have on here. All of us are able to take a joke at our expense, and we can cope quite happily with sexual innuendo. You know why? Because we're adults.

If you're not able to joke about things that have nothing to do with work - and yes, even about sexual topics - then you must either still be in school or living in a police state. Frankly, it wouldn't be somewhere I could imagine any adults wanting to spend any time, as I'm sure you'll discover when you continue with your progression towards becoming a police state and log on one morning to discover nothing but tumbleweeds and sweet wrappers rolling around in CC.

Wally's comments would have raised a laugh in my office. Conversely, your overall attitude of intolerance and bullying would certainly lead to a reprimand from the powers that be... and it also wouldn't gain you any friends.

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

Perhaps that makes CC less fun, but fun, although its allowed under many circumstances, is not the main purpose of CC.

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Then what on Earth is its main purpose? Surely a chit-chat forum is a place to have a chit-chat?

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chit-chat
informal

• noun inconsequential conversation.

• verb talk about trivial matters.

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http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/chitchat?view=uk

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Originally Posted by visualAd

That is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen .... :rolleyes:

Seriously guys, take a good look at the big picture. You have been destroying this place little by little for many months. And as for the mods and admins here having a bad reputation, yes, you do. Thats why I got out. The general consensus is a group of two faced, trigger happy, over the top police men.

Considering that you are in the best position to fight back against all this corporate piffle, why don't you? Maybe you don't want to, maybe you are afraid, maybe there is another reason. Maybe I shouldhave stayed and fought the cornor ... who knows.

Go back a year, two years, three years and compare the atmosphere. The evidence is there, staring you in the face.

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I'm sorry you feel that way but the "atmosphere" is not going to change. If you can't deal with that then you always have the option of leaving. I'd hate to see that happen however since you are a valuable contributor to the PHP and other forums.

Other than banning Wally for a completely nondescript comment, the most idiotic thing I've encountered in all of this is the entire concept of a "serious" thread in Chit Chat.

As InvisibleDuncan has pointed out, the very definition of "Chit Chat" is antithetical to "serious". Anyone posting a serious thread in Chit Chat deserves exactly what they get. If you have a serious question, post it General Developer or General PC or ANYWHERE but Chit Chat.

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Originally Posted by bushmobile

the concern I have is regarding how the AUP is / will be intepreted.

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The interpretation will probably be moderator specific, and it would seem "thin skinned" is the operative phrase of the day. :sick:

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Originally Posted by InvisibleDuncan

We're not a bunch of kids, we're intelligent, grown-up adults

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Actually Duncan, therein lies one of our big issues with much of the "friendly banter" that occurs in Chit Chat.

Not all of our members are adults, and I mean this in a literal, chronological sense. A number of our members are teens and even pre-teens. This forum section, and all forum sections, are for EVERYONE, not just those members that have reached a certain age.

I'm certain you can easily understand how merely reading some of the comments in some of the threads in Chit Chat could be very intimidating to someone that is searching for a sense of self-worth and/or self-confidence.

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Originally Posted by Hack

Actually Duncan, therein lies one of our big issues with much of the "friendly banter" that occurs in Chit Chat.

Not all of our members are adults, and I mean this in a literal, chronological sense. A number of our members are teens and even pre-teens. This forum section, and all forum sections, are for EVERYONE, not just those members that have reached a certain age.

I'm certain you can easily understand how merely reading some of the comments in some of the threads in Chit Chat could be very intimidating to someone that is searching for a sense of self-worth and/or self-confidence.

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So make a kids section, where they can draw on their placemats and discuss the latest pokemon controversies, and restrict this forum to those who can handle "adult" conversation, or those who have already realized that they have no self-worth.

Everybody wins.
:afrog:

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

I believe that most moderators would agree that CC is a strength of VBF but it also had been getting out of line. Here is one example.

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Marty, that was one of the most amusing threads of that day. I was enjoying it till the post by brad came up. How could someone take dark shadow's code (although lifted from somewhere) seriously to be a genuine code, and that too if the OP says that it looks more like C :rolleyes: . That's blasphemous (I think the spelling is correct, I should develop a spellchecker utility for VBF). Just look at the method names, if they can be called so :lol: Other posts can be debated about but not this one.

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Originally Posted by visualAd

That is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen .... :rolleyes:

Seriously guys, take a good look at the big picture. You have been destroying this place little by little for many months. And as for the mods and admins here having a bad reputation, yes, you do. Thats why I got out. The general consensus is a group of two faced, trigger happy, over the top police men.

Considering that you are in the best position to fight back against all this corporate piffle, why don't you? Maybe you don't want to, maybe you are afraid, maybe there is another reason. Maybe I shouldhave stayed and fought the cornor ... who knows.

Go back a year, two years, three years and compare the atmosphere. The evidence is there, staring you in the face.

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I'm rarely here posting but reading more often... But I'd like to ask you (and everyone's thinking like you) two questions:

- can you stop being a school boy?
- what does it take to be civilized?

You know, sometimes I find some posts to be very offencive and they don't necessary offend me directly but I can see other people may get offended so here is the last question to anyone who reads this:

Can we all be respectful to each other? Think before you say something...

My very best regards to all of you. :wave:

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Originally Posted by crptcblade

So make a kids section

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That is not a viable option.

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Originally Posted by rjv_rnjn

How could someone take dark shadow's code (although lifted from somewhere) seriously to be a genuine code

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Anyone with little programming experience could take that to be genuine.

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Originally Posted by rjv_rnjn

Other posts can be debated about but not this one.

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On the contrary the link Martin referenced is a perfect example of the point he was making.

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make_futile_attempt_to_damage_Linux();

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Yeah, that looks genuine! :afrog:

Why don't the mods move the "serious" threads to their relevant forum, infroming the poster at the same time.

This is Chit Chat.

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Originally Posted by Bonker Gudd

Why don't the mods move the "serious" threads to their relevant forum, infroming the poster at the same time.

This is Chit Chat.

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That is both an outstanding question and suggestion!!!!!!!!! :thumb:

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Originally Posted by SeanK

That is both an outstanding question and suggestion!!!!!!!!! :thumb:

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And uncharacteristically coherent, too. :afrog:

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Originally Posted by Hack

Actually Duncan, therein lies one of our big issues with much of the "friendly banter" that occurs in Chit Chat.

Not all of our members are adults, and I mean this in a literal, chronological sense. A number of our members are teens and even pre-teens. This forum section, and all forum sections, are for EVERYONE, not just those members that have reached a certain age.

I'm certain you can easily understand how merely reading some of the comments in some of the threads in Chit Chat could be very intimidating to someone that is searching for a sense of self-worth and/or self-confidence.

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That's a fair comment, but it does fly in the face of some of the other moderator comments in this thread. Before you mentioned this aspect, the argument was that we were being unprofessional, whereas you're saying that we need to be more child-friendly. I can't help thinking that the two are mutually exclusive.

In terms of content, it's highly unlikely that there's anyone on here who doesn't encounter, and cope with, innuendo and banter in real life. Bullying has no place anywhere, including here, but frankly I'd say the only bullying attitude I've seen on here is coming from certain moderators (present company excepted ;) ). Maybe we should have a poll: who found Wally's post offensive/bullying versus those who found his ban offensive/bullying. I'm quite confident of who would win.

I genuinely don't agree that many of the comments in CC would seem intimidating to anyone except the most fragile, and such people would be intimidated by anything - encountering a blindingly good bit of code can be intimidating to someone with self-confidence issues! Personally, I'm more disturbed by comments like this:

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Originally Posted by RhinoBull

You know, sometimes I find some posts to be very offencive and they don't necessary offend me directly but I can see other people may get offended

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Pandering to people who want things restricted because they think other people might find them offensive is, in all honesty, quite dangerous in a free society.

We'll have the thought police here next. :(

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Originally Posted by Bonker Gudd

This is Chit Chat.

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Yea it was.

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

[Rodney King]Cant we all just get along?[/Rodney King] :D

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lol, let's get Rodney King tags to play a sound. :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by rjv_rnjn

Marty, that was one of the most amusing threads of that day. I was enjoying it till the post by brad came up. How could someone take dark shadow's code (although lifted from somewhere) seriously to be a genuine code, and that too if the OP says that it looks more like C :rolleyes: . That's blasphemous (I think the spelling is correct, I should develop a spellchecker utility for VBF). Just look at the method names, if they can be called so :lol: Other posts can be debated about but not this one.

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The Google Toolbar has a very nice spell checker.

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

The Google Toolbar has a very nice spell checker.

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Even better: Firefox 2 does automatic spell checks in textareas.

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

The Google Toolbar has a very nice spell checker.

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Martin, you have to ban yourself now for going off-topic.

:)

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

I'm sorry you feel that way but the "atmosphere" is not going to change. If you can't deal with that then you always have the option of leaving. I'd hate to see that happen however since you are a valuable contributor to the PHP and other forums.

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Ok, I'm gone .... :wave:

Leaving because you dont get your way right away is not very productive. If you to try to deal with things in a more positive mannor wouldnt that be best?

Sorry to see you go if you do though.

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Originally Posted by visualAd

Ok, I'm gone .... :wave:

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Come on VisualAd!! Though I am not active poster, but active reader though. Let Moderators change the name, that doesn't change the way we contribute (ok, ok.. "we" was a bit too much, but i meant those who contribute) or what crptcblade has continued posting here in CC (haha.. politically correct). Nobody should leave a forum based on some discussion. Not taking being bullied when bullied is also an art... :confused: (yeah I too am not sure what I want to write) :bigyello:
Anyway other threads with same zest have continued on CC. So, we can leave this point here (at least I've started enjoying the other posts of CC). So my goodbye is to this thread..:wave:

I find this discussion and many of the comments in this thread to be very strange. What is it you guys are complaining about? That posts in a thread should stay on topic? Even if this forum is an off-topic forum doesn't mean that all replies to a thread should be. I rarely post in this forum simply because if you post a serious question you are instantly ridiculed and the thread will at once be filled with some other discussion, jokes, and all kind of off-topic replies. The link Marty posted in post #50 above is a good example. I may agree that that particular question might have fitted better in the General PC forum but that doesn't mean you immediatly should post nonsens replies to an obviously serious question. Why must a serious question be tagged as such? Can you honestly say that you can't see the difference when you read the topic?

Who put the equal sign between Chit Chat and Silly Discussion? I often chit chat with people around me about very serious stuff and are rarely ridiculed for it.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good joke as much as the next guy, and I did found many of the replies to the above mentioned post very funny but that is not the point. The point is that the thread starter had a serious question and expected serious answers. So he truly thought that the replies he got was serious and felt that his time was wasted when he investigated the answers he got and when he pointed that out he was again ridiculed and even if the word wasn't mentioned pretty muched called an idiot just because he didn't realize that. You may argue as much as you want about what he should have understood and I would only reply that those who posted a reply should have understood what kind of a replies he expected.

So go ahead and start new silly and fun threads but before you reply to any thread in any of the forums please make sure you read the topic first so you stay on topic even in this off topic forum.

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

I find this discussion and many of the comments in this thread to be very strange. What is it you guys are complaining about? That posts in a thread should stay on topic? Even if this forum is an off-topic forum doesn't mean that all replies to a thread should be. I rarely post in this forum simply because if you post a serious question you are instantly ridiculed and the thread will at once be filled with some other discussion, jokes, and all kind of off-topic replies. The link Marty posted in post #50 above is a good example. I may agree that that particular question might have fitted better in the General PC forum but that doesn't mean you immediatly should post nonsens replies to an obviously serious question. Why must a serious question be tagged as such? Can you honestly say that you can't see the difference when you read the topic?

Who put the equal sign between Chit Chat and Silly Discussion? I often chit chat with people around me about very serious stuff and are rarely ridiculed for it.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good joke as much as the next guy, and I did found many of the replies to the above mentioned post very funny but that is not the point. The point is that the thread starter had a serious question and expected serious answers. So he truly thought that the replies he got was serious and felt that his time was wasted when he investigated the answers he got and when he pointed that out he was again ridiculed and even if the word wasn't mentioned pretty muched called an idiot just because he didn't realize that. You may argue as much as you want about what he should have understood and I would only reply that those who posted a reply should have understood what kind of a replies he expected.

So go ahead and start new silly and fun threads but before you reply to any thread in any of the forums please make sure you read the topic first so you stay on topic even in this off topic forum.

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Well said!