This is absolutely disgusting!!!

i can't believe the european papers could be so stupid! (or money-grabbing)

• 30 Sept 2005: Danish paper publishes cartoons
• 20 Oct: Muslim ambassadors complain to Danish PM
• 10 Jan 2006: Norwegian publication reprints cartoons
• 26 Jan: Saudi Arabia recalls its ambassador
• 30 Jan: Gunmen raid EU's Gaza office demanding apology
• 31 Jan: Danish paper apologises
• 1 Feb: Papers in France, Germany, Italy and Spain reprint cartoons
• 4 Feb: Syrians attack Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus
• 5 Feb: Protesters sack Danish embassy in Beirut

THEY RE-PRINTED IT!?!
What in the world were they thinking knowing the reaction it would cause??? :eek:

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

THEY RE-PRINTED IT!?!
What in the world were they thinking knowing the reaction it would cause??? :eek:

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Yes, well appearantly the fact that people protest it makes them feel like their freedom is being tarnished. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

i dont think it should have originaly been printed but now everyones goin on about it i think everyone should know what their talking about. If you havnt seen the pics then how do you know how bad they were

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Originally Posted by visualAd

With people who hold attitudes like yours; they wonder where terrorists come from!!

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This is truly enlightening.

I claim that people who commit violence should be held accountable and their community leaders should act like leaders and stop this violence by speaking out.

I claim that the rest of the world should not be cowed by this violence and stop apologizing to hoodlums.

And, it is a fact of life in this multicultural world that different cultures will be offended by what others do on occasion. They do not have any right that can prevent this. They can expect that others will act in a respectful manner, but cannot demand it.

For these three rational, logical thoughts I am breeding terrorism?

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Originally Posted by Wokawidget

And because you personally haven't seen this then all muslims are terrorists?

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No, nothing I said should have led you to believe this. Granted there may be some religious leaders around your neighborhood who condemn the 7/7 violence and that is commendable, but why do the majority stay silent?

What I am looking for is a policy of non-violence coming out of the mosques. I’m looking for them to start preaching peace to their members. This is not happening.

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Originally Posted by Wally Pipp

And don't bother to argue with the likes of moeur. It's just not worth it.

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Wally, Wally, Wally…

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Originally Posted by mendhak

Uhm... hi. Woka's posted the link twice for you to see.

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And I read them twice. As stated above they talk about politicians not religious leaders.

I do not want to be associated with this person but a right-wing Dutch politician has posted them on his site.
(it's a Dutch site, just scroll down a bit to see the images)
[removed]

The publications that re-printed are in my opinion as bad as the so called religious protestors who are burning down embassys and inciting terrorism.

I haven't read all of the posts (because I'm lazy) but you guys all know me, I have to have my tuppence worth . . .

Freedom of speech is a concept, and tradition that should be held high on all aspects of humanity, society, and government. I don't think anyone here would disagree.

However with freedom of speech comes a very large responsibility. The responsibility to moderate extremities of such a freedom.

The Danish thought that they were publishing satire; true, in many cases such an image would be considered satire - where I live, the Bishop Of Rochester (publically) stated that the Christian church has had to endure satire for centuries, and 'to be honest - we've got used to it, so it doesn't offend'

The Muslim faith, who largely believe in the same morality as the rest of the religious world, have not had to endure satire. This is the first time, and they've reacted badly to it.

They've held placards denoting the wishes to 'kill the enemy' talked of 'beheading' and dressed up as suicide bombers (although the guy who did this has since publicly apologised.

What are we to do? No-one has been arrested for clearly anti-Western sensibilities; remember belief is protected by UK law. Yet a moderate secular satirist cartoon has been taken to the wolves for, what I consider, a lesser offence - his offence is one of ignorance and not of aggression.

The Muslim leaders of the UK are right to distance themselves from these incidents. In an already growing xenophobic western civilisation, these people are doing themselve no favours by promoting violence, and anger.

In the words of a leading UK Muslim institution - "It's un-Islamic"

Asking for the cartoonist to be tried in a court of Islam and executed though is a bit much. I dont know the full story here and I havent seen the cartoon, I am guessing the cartoonist did not know how offensive it is to Muslims to depict Mohammed. I also gather it was a competition to draw how they felt Islam is perceived. For this reason I am unsure of how they know it was actually Mohammed(The prophet) in the cartoon and not just labelled as a person called Mohammed which is considered a stero typical Islamic name.

I also believe that it is wrong to take anger out at the government embassys, the governments of the countries and many of the people from the countries are having hate directed at them for the actions of one person in one newspaper (a newspaper is not a country).

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They've held placards denoting the wishes to 'kill the enemy' talked of 'beheading' and dressed up as suicide bombers (although the guy who did this has since publicly apologised.

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His apology really did not seem from the heart to me, it was IMO a soliciters letter designed to hit every note required to stop him being on an Inciting violence charge. This is a problem for me because it shows there are alot of(still a minority to the peaceful Muslims) people who actually do hold these extremeist views living an everyday life among us, just waiting for the next provocation do act upon their hate for the west.

If anyone watched newnight last night it summed it up, there was 4 muslims on the show, a succesful political lady, a succesful oxford profesor, a lady from some orginisaation. and some jerk from i dont know.

He was the disgrace, he admitted to orginising the marches which caused problems. I seriously think people like this should be deported.

Its no wonder partys such as the BNP are increasing in popularity.

its 1 or 2 causing problems for the muslim world.

also there was no one cartoonist, from what i understand it was readers who sent in the cartoons.

Now this sums up what kind of muslims we are used to in Scandinavia...This web page was just made...


http://www.sorrynorwaydenmark.com/



- ØØ -

This was plain ignorance at first because I honestly didn't know it was offensive for any image of Mohammed to be printed, but it was an accident. However the persons who re-printed it should apologise for they knew what would result.

What I want to know however is where is the "inciting racial hatred" law? If these violent protests were caucasian males with identical placards except against muslims all the protestors would be in jail quick as a flash. It just seems we are forever walking on egg shells to refrain from offending the minority.

and why do they always become VIOLENT protests? can't they appreciate that a peaceful protest is much more likely to get results. There are currently violent protests at a sea liners office in Egypt(?) about the 100 or so people that drowned in that cruise ship. I understand they are angry but asking for the workers' heads is a bit extreme. They should be taken to court for criminal negligence

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Originally Posted by Wokawidget

Again....wrong wrong wrong on SOOOOOO many lvls.

What news/media are you getting your "facts" from...yea, maybe one of 2 radicals did that, but the majority certainly dont, and do speak out.

Read news.bbc.co.uk, voted worlds best news service for it's unbiased reporting.

Woka

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I watched on BBC the interview between a Islamist Leader dude vs a America, the American Didnt even give the Anchor a Chance to Talk & He Kept saying their religion was spread by violence. The Islam Dude did condemn it like 100 times and that was about 2 days ago.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

So my question is: How do they recognize that the cartoon is a picture of him?

Thousands of gaudy pictures of jesus would allow any christian to recognize a caricature of him, but how so for a muslim?

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The Competition in the Denmark Paper was to Draw Mohammed. So thats why I'm told this all started. Otherwise People Would Think The Drawing Was Of Osama Maybe.

I suppose it only takes a few violent rejects to spoil it for everyone else. I just can't understand why they enjoy violence so much

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Originally Posted by Something Else

Pardon, but isn't the saying supposed to be "There is no god but allah, and muhammad is his prophet"?

Must be a translator issue.

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Guy here says the Christians/Jews/Muslims Believe in the Exact Same God. (the jews didnt believe anyone after Moses was a True Prophet, the Christains Say the same About Jesus and The Muslims Believe That Muhammed and Moses And Jesus Were All Prophets)
He Says The Arabic Name For God is Allah. In their Religion God Has 99 Qualitities Like The Most Just/All Knowing/King of Kings, etc. It Suppose to Encompass Every Quality that can Exist, that you can Think of in the 99 Names. To Sum up 99 at once the Word Allah is Used, I Think This is What he Said. But the Exact Same God The 3 Religions Beleive in.

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

i can't believe the european papers could be so stupid! (or money-grabbing)

• 30 Sept 2005: Danish paper publishes cartoons
• 20 Oct: Muslim ambassadors complain to Danish PM
• 10 Jan 2006: Norwegian publication reprints cartoons
• 26 Jan: Saudi Arabia recalls its ambassador
• 30 Jan: Gunmen raid EU's Gaza office demanding apology
• 31 Jan: Danish paper apologises
• 1 Feb: Papers in France, Germany, Italy and Spain reprint cartoons
• 4 Feb: Syrians attack Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus
• 5 Feb: Protesters sack Danish embassy in Beirut

THEY RE-PRINTED IT!?!
What in the world were they thinking knowing the reaction it would cause??? :eek:

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Yeah, Denmarks Gonna Go Bankrupt.

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Originally Posted by Codehammer

Yeah, Denmarks Gonna Go Bankrupt.

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Ironicaly enough...we actualy earn money on this... :confused: Norway that is...

Which is why if they had done peaceful protests they could potentially have had compensation, they won't even get sympathy now.

Oh, and as for the British guy who dressed as a suicide bomber then publically apologised I guess he forgot he was a wanted criminal for drug dealing. He was promptly arrested for an outstanding warrant :lol: idiot

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

Which is why if they had done peaceful protests they could potentially have had compensation, they won't even get sympathy now.

Oh, and as for the British guy who dressed as a suicide bomber then publically apologised I guess he forgot he was a wanted criminal for drug dealing. He was promptly arrested for an outstanding warrant :lol: idiot

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He got away lightly, if he had of been Brazillian he would have been shot.

Disturbingly, on the way to work this morning I seen someone had pasted pictures of the cartoon on lamposts with a tag line "whats the fuss". chippan->water water->chippan.

now its gettin realy realy bad, British troops sent to defend a base in Afganistan under siege by rioters

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4689358.stm

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

i can't believe the european papers could be so stupid! (or money-grabbing)
What in the world were they thinking knowing the reaction it would cause??? :eek:

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Is this a good reason not to print something? The Muslims might burn stuff down? If you really want to worry think about what gets said about the US. Ooow. What if we got all in a wad about every little thing? We have nukes. Mmmm, next time a Danish paper says something about us...

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

Why do we have to target Muslims and there beliefs? Being a Muslim I also condemn the printing of something that abuses our prophet(peace be upon him) or our religion.

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Welcome the party. The rest of us with any religion have been bashed for years. You might want to get used to it. The big difference between Muslim protestors and, say, American Christian protestors is that they burn down buildings and chase harmless Danes out of town while our variety do this dopey stuff:

http://www.baptis****ch.org/fredphelps.html

Oh, and when Phelps talks about killing me, I know he's not coming over to do the job himself -- or send some young kid to do the job for him.

Maybe if the guys in Lebenon just got some spray paint and posterboard and used their imagination... ;)

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Originally Posted by PineyWoodsJimbo

The big difference between Muslim protestors and, say, American Christian protestors is that they burn down buildings and chase harmless Danes out of town while our variety do this dopey stuff.

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Wrong wrong wrong, it still only a small minority.

Oh, and can I bring your attention to the KKK...weren't they American ;)

Personally I am amazed that in todays world so much fuss can be caused over fictional characters.

Woka

Since when was chur a bad word?

What the... Link didn't work, did it.

Try this one: http://www.hatemongers.com/home.html

Check out the signs. I've seen some of their better ones in real life. Very impressive. :rolleyes:

Now if there is a Norweigan consulate in Lawrence....

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Originally Posted by Wokawidget

Wrong wrong wrong, it still only a small minority.

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You'd better hope so. Then again, that may not be the smartest thing to hope for.

Now people are burning effigies of the Danish PM...he hasn't done anything wrong!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4691878.stm

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But the Union of Islamic Organisations of France, one of the groups that applied for the injunction, said "one cannot insult a religion".

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I am sorry, but why not? Get a grip on reality.

I actually do find it insulting that in a world that has science as a powerful aid to backup our existance and theories, that people still believe what is written in a novel published thousands of years ago, to which there is no basis for fact what-so-ever that can be backed up with any kind of proof.

So, apparently God created Adman and Eve 1st...ok, fair do's...so, how do you explain dinosaurs that are millions of years old that arn't covered in the bible...:quick, think of something: "err god put the dinosaur bones there for non believers"...come on, is that the best you can come up with?

In the US some christian schools actually want to drop teaching about dinosaurs and such like!

Even though I disagree with religion I still see how it can benefit certain indiviuals and give them peace of mind and stength to carry on through the day. Follow this religion in your own homes, churches, mosques etc...I have no problem with that. But as soon as people start dictating what I, yes me personally, can or cannot do regarding their fake religion then this starts to wind me up.

If soemone insults the English I laugh, i do think it's amusing, and while I have been out here in the US I have taken some stick from people at my new company for not only being English, but for being a VB programmer (C developers really look down on VB). Has it bothered me...has it heck.

Woka

PS And before people jump down my throat and say that I cannot say that religions are fake, the fact that someone posts saying they believe in god, or the prophet, or whomever, then this essentially is them saying that science and other religions are fake.

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Originally Posted by PineyWoodsJimbo

Welcome the party. The rest of us with any religion have been bashed for years. You might want to get used to it. The big difference between Muslim protestors and, say, American Christian protestors is that they burn down buildings and chase harmless Danes out of town while our variety do this dopey stuff:

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I am also not with the voilent protestors. But my point was that Freedom of Speech doen't mean that you will offend others. Even in US, you have freedom of speech but that does not mean you will go and start offending people on the road. We are not going to get used to being offended everytime.

I would say the newspapers owe an apology and they have to do so, because they have hurt each and every muslim in this world. And these things are not going to help us as I had mentioned in my previous post. You need to be responsible for your own actions in this world. If you offend someone's beleif that person/community is going to protest/condemn such acts.

This Cartoon row was started in september and Dannes apologized for this. I don't understand why papers in other European countries had to reprint them. It was not Freedom of Press, it was done just to offend a particular community.

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

This Cartoon row was started in september and Dannes apologized for this. I don't understand why papers in other European countries had to reprint them. It was not Freedom of Press, it was done just to offend a particular community.

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No, it was done as a statement of "we're not going to be bullied", which is essentially what is happening. Certain people are trying to stamp their religion in places where it doesn't belong.

Can you remember miss world in Nigeria...after a local newspaper wrote that Prophet Mohammed would have made one of the Miss World contestants his wife the world went nuts. People died, building were torched. Insanity. Similar to what we have here. Why is this character so protected?

I am sorry, but it's just absolutely rediculous to get so wound up about something so trivial. Why does it matter so much what other people, who have no impact on your life, say or do.

My girlfriend got a new hair cut, I didn't like it, I told her so. she was offended, but my house still stands, we are still seeing each other.

People are offended every day of the year, it's just part of life. It happens. Read my post above #66. I am insulted and offended, but do you see me boycotting anything, or making rash judgement on individuals...no.

I am intregued, but this isn't me having a go at you or anything, but why does this offend you personally so much? Is it not possible to think "stupid newspaper, doesn't know what it's talking about, it is only a newspaper, I'll get on with my life" and then just never buy that newspaper instead...

Woof

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

I would say the newspapers owe an apology and they have to do so, because they have hurt each and every muslim in this world.

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Disagree.
I agree with people going out and protesting in a peaceful manner, in fact it quite impresses me that people can be so devoted.
However, referring back to my comments in post #66, so from what you're saying does this mean you and every other religious person in the world should appologise to me? Ain't gonna happen is it? :(

Woka

It all depends on how you beleive in your religion. What we don't understand is that Muslims around the world beleive in their religion. The prophet in our religion has got the highest place in our lives second only to God almighty.

So If I am a beleiver I would not tolerate such incidents and I would condemn such acts. This would not only include this incident but incidents like 7/7 or 9/11. It is the responsibility of the respective governments to make sure that sentiments of other communities are not hurt (Be it Muslim, Christain or any other religion).

What we need to understand is that attacking each other is not going to take us anywhere. Why can't we just live in peace? Why can't we just stop targetting Muslims? Why can't we just let people live their lives the way they want to? Why can't we just understand that voilence is not the way? And last but not the least, If I have hurt someone I need to apologize same way if these newspapers have hurt Muslims they need to apologize. I would again stress on the point that having freedom of press/speech does not mean you will start offending me.

And to the reponse of Post 66, I would like to add one more thing here that it is not one person that has been hurt, it is the whole community and we need to address this honetly.

I have a quick question, from religion classes i learned that Muslims belive in Moses, Jesus and all the prophets, then how come it is only the Prophet Mohammed, that is so strongly guarded. Shouldn't you be defending every prophet? How come when pictures of Moses are published in the papers no one cares, but if its the Prophet Mohammed, then the whole islamic community is upset?

That is a very good question. We beleive in all the prophets that came before the Last Prophet. And if you remember correctly there are Jews who beleive in Moses and Christians who beleive in Jesus. And if we start protesting against things which you have said, people will say that Muslims are interfering in others' religious matters.

That makes no sense at all. You should be either protesting for every prophet or none at all, otherwise you are saying that some prophets are more important than others.

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

It all depends on how you beleive in your religion. What we don't understand is that Muslims around the world beleive in their religion. The prophet in our religion has got the highest place in our lives second only to God almighty.

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You don't need to understand other religions, just to accept that other people have the choice to follow whatever they wish and leave it at that

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

So If I am a beleiver I would not tolerate such incidents and I would condemn such acts. This would not only include this incident but incidents like 7/7 or 9/11. It is the responsibility of the respective governments to make sure that sentiments of other communities are not hurt (Be it Muslim, Christain or any other religion).

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Government and religious beliefs should never interfere with each other. That is the fundamental basis of a modern democracy and it works. (I believe it's in the US constitution?)

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

What we need to understand is that attacking each other is not going to take us anywhere. Why can't we just live in peace? Why can't we just stop targetting Muslims? Why can't we just let people live their lives the way they want to? Why can't we just understand that voilence is not the way? And last but not the least, If I have hurt someone I need to apologize same way if these newspapers have hurt Muslims they need to apologize. I would again stress on the point that having freedom of press/speech does not mean you will start offending me.

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Why can't they accept that a peaceful protest works more effectively? Why can't Muslims stop acting like they are the victims? Why do Muslims always resort to violence instead of actually talking something through with the relevant persons?

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

And to the reponse of Post 66, I would like to add one more thing here that it is not one person that has been hurt, it is the whole community and we need to address this honetly.

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There has been incredibly hug emnity between the celtic nations (Wales, Scotland, Ireland) and England for the best part of 4000 years. Yet we live next to each other in peace leaving the emnity to a playful jab every now and again.

Ever heard of escalation? He calls you something, you reply with something more hurtful. He hits you with his fist, you stab him with a knife. He comes back with a pistol.....you see my point? Everything like this starts with something small and neither willing to walk away because they do not want to seem like a wimp. Just walk away.

It is just so sad to watch how easily people who have no interest in what the original offence was (even if it was unintentional) jumping on the bandwagon and everyone from that said community egging them on

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Originally Posted by Andrew G

That makes no sense at all. You should be either protesting for every prophet or none at all, otherwise you are saying that some prophets are more important than others.

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Each and every prophet is equally respectable. There is no such distinction here.

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Originally Posted by valleysboy1978

Why can't they accept that a peaceful protest works more effectively? Why can't Muslims stop acting like they are the victims? Why do Muslims always resort to violence instead of actually talking something through with the relevant persons?

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If you read my previous posts, I did mention that protests should be peacefull. Another thing that needs to be addressed is that people start judging the whole community by the acts done by few hundred people. This is what is creating more problems.

Again I would stress on my first point that by re-publishing the material certain Newspapers have made a point that they are defending Freedom of Speech and it becomes more and more evident that they are not actually defending Freedom of Speech, they just want to have the matter escalated to the highest point.

Those people who have offended have to apologize. It can be people who printed the cartoons and people who burned the embassies. But as I said we need to have the understanding that unless we respect each others setiments and beleifs we are not going to do any good to this world.

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Originally Posted by Shuja Ali

Each and every prophet is equally respectable. There is no such distinction here.

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Ok so i expect that the next time a picture of any prophet to be in the paper is should turn on the tv and see people protesting... I seriously doubt it would happen. How about all those movies about Moses, i should have seen millions of people protesting. How come it is only the Prophet Mohammed's picture that is not allowed to be printed but every other prophet is allowed. There should be 'no such distinction here.'

The Holy Quran and Islam have never preached violence.The meaning of 'Jehad' is holy war.The first point in jehad is a war against your inner self.Its just that radical Mullahs have led the people who are usually poor into believing that the West is evil.I dont support any of the Mullahs nor am i a fan of Osama.But who created Osama?What has led the Muslims to think US is evil? Whats the root of all this?

No kind of violence is justified.I condemn the acts of violence commited by all the misled Muslims.One thing I would like to add is that I am from a country (India) that has the second highest number of Muslims but we haven't seen any kind of violent protests.

PEACE.

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Originally Posted by Andrew G

Ok so i expect that the next time a picture of any prophet to be in the paper is should turn on the tv and see people protesting... I seriously doubt it would happen. How about all those movies about Moses, i should have seen millions of people protesting. How come it is only the Prophet Mohammed's picture that is not allowed to be printed but every other prophet is allowed. There should be 'no such distinction here.'

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There are people who belong to faiths that beleive in Moses and Jesus. And if these people themselves are posting a picture or printing something against themselves then I would say it is their beleif. And I would not offend them saying that you cannot do this.

But what I can do is that I will not let people offend me or my religion using cartoons or photographs. You are again missing my point. What I have been telling right from the start is that we need to understand and respect each others beleifs and live peacefully.

Took this from the BBC website.

Pakistani liberals argue that Muslims know very well that the West - despite its emphasis on personal freedoms - also has its sacred cows, the Holocaust being a prime example.

What the Muslims have yet to learn, they say, is how to persuade the prevailing Western mindset to pay similar respect to what they hold so dear.

That is a task which liberal Pakistanis feel is unlikely to be accomplished by banishing the cartoons for being sacrilegious or burning down Western embassies.

"The cartoons should be treated as a window into the western mind and examined to understand the exact nature of this gap of understanding," concludes a lawyer from Karachi.

"Only then can the Muslims hope to explain to the West that suicide bombings are not a politically glorified quest for virgins in the hereafter."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc...sts/index.html

That's one thing you DON'T want to try - protesting toward a military base.