Cheats

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Originally posted by BrianS
Intent was already given. He clearly stated he wanted to use this to Cheat.

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As stated, cheating in itself is not illegal nor prohibited. Many games build in cheats.

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The Game he wants to cheat on has a EULA that states....

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I skimmed both threads relatively fast; however, I didn't see a specific game mentioned. As I stated in my posting -- Violating a EULA is not supported on this site, nor do I personally support violating licensing.

Some games have allowed a certain number of programs and tools to be created that work with them. You can call some of these cheats or you can call them utilites. As long as they don't violate the licensing, then there is nothing wrong with these programs.

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I can't believe you guys actually support making cheats for games, especially multiplayer games. Single Player I can see since all you are doing is cheating yourself. But when it comes to others and fairness, don't you have any morals?

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It isn't the cheat or building a cheat that is immoral, it is how it is used. If a cheat balances a game so two players can have a more equal pairing, then I see it as being a value add -- provided that everyone playing knows the cheat is being used. This is just one example I can see to justify such a program. (Again, assuming no licensing was violated.)

I don't think it can be VB Forums responsibility to ensure that cheats for games do not get developed. There are probably 1 million lines of code a potential game cracker could source from this site and use to help him create a cheat.

The same goes for cracking in general. If someone posts a thread with the topic "Help me crack MS Office Activation" - then it is clear that there is criminal intent and that anyone who helps that person is in breach of the forum rules and Microsoft's liscening agreements. But if the same person posts a thread with the topic "How to find DLL entry points?" - which he may need to do in order to develop his crack, then unless someone else has knowledge of what he is doing, no one can be held responsible for helping him.

My personal opinion is that cheats spoil the game playing expreience and it is defintely the wrong thing to do in a multiplayer envionment unless the prior consent and knowledge of all the other players is obtained. However in this case it is the responsiblilty of the the person/people/organisation which has organised the multiplayer game to ensure that players don't cheat.

If someone comes here asking for help in creating a cheat and it is clear that he is breaching the rules of another site or the EULA of the game then maybe it would be a good idea to delete the thread becuase it could give VB Fourms a bad image. But if there is no clear indication as to what game he is creating a cheat for and the way in which he intends to use it, then its up to indvidual members whether or not they want to help.

Not to be rude, but if you didnt even read the threads, how can you even make such a comment?

Just so you dont have to go far, here is his Intent:

Ok, I am working on cheats for games. I wouldl ike to know ways to do what is below.

That is the first sentance in his initial post.

Now here, right in this thread:

There is nothing wrong when it comes to cheating at a game like Runescape (www.runescape.com)

Here he mentions where he wants to use his new cheat at.

Now once again, the EULA of Runescape:

You must not attempt to use other programs in conjunction with the Multiplayer Games or RuneScape to give yourself an unfair advantage.

How can you pass a comment without even reading the facts?

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Originally posted by brad jones
As stated, cheating in itself is not illegal nor prohibited. Many games build in cheats.



I skimmed both threads relatively fast; however, I didn't see a specific game mentioned. As I stated in my posting -- Violating a EULA is not supported on this site, nor do I personally support violating licensing.

Some games have allowed a certain number of programs and tools to be created that work with them. You can call some of these cheats or you can call them utilites. As long as they don't violate the licensing, then there is nothing wrong with these programs.



It isn't the cheat or building a cheat that is immoral, it is how it is used. If a cheat balances a game so two players can have a more equal pairing, then I see it as being a value add -- provided that everyone playing knows the cheat is being used. This is just one example I can see to justify such a program. (Again, assuming no licensing was violated.)

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I deleted the offending thread.

you guys don't understand...
lets say i have 25 million gold on the game (which i have more)
If i want to put it in my bank i have to click the same place 10,000 times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It takes like hours to do this...

Then tell that to the Game developers so they can fix it.

You're all being a bit self rightous - how many of you people harping on about violating EULAs have pressed "I agree" when installing that copy of VB you got from a friends friend.

Lighten up - as the great Mr Burns said:

‘Cheating is the gift man gives himself.'

And last time I checked it is not illegal to cheat in a computer game, whatever country you are in.

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Originally posted by BrianS
Intent was already given. He clearly stated he wanted to use this to Cheat.

The Game he wants to cheat on has a EULA that states they will not use any outside program for the purpose of cheating, which I posted above.

I can't believe you guys actually support making cheats for games, especially multiplayer games. Single Player I can see since all you are doing is cheating yourself. But when it comes to others and fairness, don't you have any morals?

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No not really...

In UT1, if someone beat me... I'd come back in with an invisible skin and aimbot.

ahhhhhhh the good ole days

My favorite form of cheating:

Playing Yahoo Chess with some guy that has high points and turn on chessmaster 2000000000004 in the background. I play the computer as he plays me.... and I move the way the computer does...

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Originally posted by BrianS
Not to be rude, but if you didnt even read the threads, how can you even make such a comment?

Just so you dont have to go far, here is his Intent:

Ok, I am working on cheats for games. I wouldl ike to know ways to do what is below.

That is the first sentance in his initial post.

Now here, right in this thread:

There is nothing wrong when it comes to cheating at a game like Runescape (www.runescape.com)

Here he mentions where he wants to use his new cheat at.

Now once again, the EULA of Runescape:

You must not attempt to use other programs in conjunction with the Multiplayer Games or RuneScape to give yourself an unfair advantage.

How can you pass a comment without even reading the facts?

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Going strictly by the statements made here, if he indeed wants to use the game to put his gold in the bank, I guess that's perfectly legal, even considering the EULA, which only says you shouldn't get an unfair advantage by using another program. At the same time, I think it's a better solution to ask the game developers to provide a fix for it, but what if they simply won't listen?

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Let's get a grip here : unless expressly forbidden in the EULA cheating is not a crime.

It's a bloody nuisance, that's what it is.
And one that turned me off mp for a while. Best way to handle them is simply ignore them (they'll get bored and go away eventually) or have them kicked off the servers by the admins. Or set up trusted (as in friends-only) servers but that requires friends which can be a bit tricky in the online gaming community :)

But if you want to keep shortcuts in your game (to be used by cheaters), go right ahead. But don't complain afterwards if your mp public servers are inundiated with underage cheating ******s.

Anyway, I usually leave servers if I suspect someone's cheating. It's not big, it's not cool, it doesn't impress anyone, it doesn't make you popular and it emphasises what a ****** you really are.

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Originally posted by honeybee
I don't think the cheat codes are developed after the games have been written. They are 'built' into the game, very much like easter eggs.

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You are talking about the cheats that Game Developer puts in so the testing department can test the game in every way as fast as possible...I am taliking about making cheats for a game you didn't make yourself...and then you have to alter the sourse or the resources...and that is not legal in most games...I have been there done that...I know what you have to do to crack a typical DX game...

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Originally posted by honeybee
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/9448/intro.html




A cheat code of Road Rash will work whether you have the unaltered original version of Road Rash or a pirated version. You don't need anything but the original game software for the cheats to run. You DO NOT tamper with the code or resource files in order to use cheats. The cheats are BUILT INTO the games.

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Still talking about the wrong thing here...

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Originally posted by NoteMe
You are talking about the cheats that Game Developer puts in so the testing department can test the game in every way as fast as possible...I am taliking about making cheats for a game you didn't make yourself...and then you have to alter the sourse or the resources...and that is not legal in most games...I have been there done that...I know what you have to do to crack a typical DX game...

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Not true. Most external cheats are via trainers which only alter memory space. Nothing more. And it certainly isnt illegal to alter your computers memory space.

If you are on a multiplayer game like Diablo 2, you have to alter that memory on the Blizztar (or what they where called) server...and that is illegal..;)

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My favorite form of cheating:

Playing Yahoo Chess with some guy that has high points and turn on chessmaster 2000000000004 in the background. I play the computer as he plays me.... and I move the way the computer does...

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That is GENIUS. But, it brings up the question: What if he has a better chess program? :lol:

And in most FPS games, arcade games and so on, there is no need for a trainer to boost your levels. If you are going to change anything there you have to alter the resource files, and then you are over on the illegal side again...;)

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If you are going to change anything there you have to alter the resource files, and then you are over on the illegal side again...

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Again, you are wrong. You dont HAVE to hack anything in the actual files. All that is required is hacking the memory stream.

And on Diablo 2. Wrong there also. Diablo 2 is a peer 2 peer game. The server stores closed realm characters and some minor tasks. But the game flow is mostly happening client to client. The memory stream and data is being hacked on the client, nothing is hacked on the server. And it is against Blizzards Terms of service, but it is NOT illegal. For open character hacking, the only thing being hacked are the character save files. YOU own your character files on YOUR computer. It is not illegal to change them.

Haha, I remember the D2 open realm. It was basicly all level 99s.

I remember one guy who was mouthing me off that he had 60 kajillion strength. We went to duel, I turned on thorns (reflect damage). He hit me once and basicly exploded (note that, I was like level 4).:rolleyes: Thorns keeps your hp from going below one on a massive hit i guess... hilarious, lol.

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Originally posted by Cander
Again, you are wrong. You dont HAVE to hack anything in the actual files. All that is required is hacking the memory stream.

And on Diablo 2. Wrong there also. Diablo 2 is a peer 2 peer game. The server stores closed realm characters and some minor tasks. But the game flow is mostly happening client to client. The memory stream and data is being hacked on the client, nothing is hacked on the server. And it is against Blizzards Terms of service, but it is NOT illegal. For open character hacking, the only thing being hacked are the character save files. YOU own your character files on YOUR computer. It is not illegal to change them.

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If you play over internet on Diablo 2, your character is stored on the server. So any changes to it will have to be done on their server. It is true that if you play pear to pear, then it is stored on the local machine, but that is not ture for multiplayer over internet. I have not read their lisence agreements so I have no idea about what they allow or not allow. But I did read the implenteation docs on how the multiplyaer modules was lied down, and they actually hired hackers to find the best solution on how to make it the most difficult game to hack/crack at that time. And they did all that effort, to make sure hckers/crackers would ruin the game play....

in the case of D2 it's against their TOS and they'll kick you off their servers and delete your account if you cheat.

And quite rightly so. No-one likes a cheating ******. But it's NOT illegal unless specified in the EULA that you can't change a component in any way.

Someone finaly agree on all my points here...:D

Diablo 2 open characters are stored on the client. And last I heared the only cheats for closed/realm games was maphack and some other data stream hack(cant recall what it was). No actual character manipulation.

yep, there's actually two types of chars in D2. Open (stored locally) and realm (stored on the battle.net servers). If you cheat on the last one (if you manage to do so these days) your account is R.I.P.
What you do with your open account is entirely up to you.

Not sure what you mean by open characters....never played the game...just been behind the scenes. And I guess you don't mean internet gaming.

If I ever get into the bussiness, I will never care about what you do with the game on your own computer (after you bought it) as long as you don't ruin the game play for others over internet. The big games that are made now days are selling becuase of thir multiplayer game oppertunities. And if that is ruined because of cheats/cracks/hacks then I will get very angry.


Not sure what cheats/hacks/cracks that are most used in closed/realm games, seldom play them my self. But I guess that the type of cheats/hacks/cracks most used are based on what game you are plying. Like a wireframe crack will more or less never be usefull in a RPG game, and a trainer will more or less never be usefull in a FPS game...;)

Which is one of the bonuses of how Massive Mulitplayer games handle things. EVERYTHING is handled on the server so it can be monitored and verified. Sometimes occasional cheats pop up for them due to a flaw in the way the game handles something, but generally those are fixed quikcly and the offenders accounts either banned or rolled back(with all the other players) to before the hack was found.

Sure 15$ a month may sound bad to someone who has never played an MMO before, but you get a sense of safety when you play that you dont have to worry too much about some god mode cheater.

So then you actually agree about not helping beople to make cracks/hacks/cheats for games that they didn't make too??? :confused:

Im against cheats for online games yes. I was only arguing the semantics of the issue, not the morality.

But in his defense, he is only trying to make an automation app, which depending on what it is , I can agree with it. Sometime MMO's have poorly designed interface, and occasionally a helper app is made by a third party to make some monotinous tasks easier. Sometimes the developers fown on it, sometime they do not.

Case in point. I play Anarchy Online. When you go to a mission terminal, to read what the missions offer as a reward to find the one you want is a pain in the arse. Someone came up with an app called ClickSaver that intercepts the mission data stream and displays the mission information in an easy to read window. The developers of AO(some Norweigan fools. ;)) have had no problem with this app as no one is gainging any realy advantage. Just overcoming a bad interface design.

First of all I must admitt that I never read the thread he made. I am not talking against him in any way. But the way Marty started it "making a cheat for a web game", is in no way the same as saying that they want to make a third party tool to help them. It's not a cheat, as Marty said that he was asking for.


And second og all. Funcom is no way fools...it's the company I am heading for. I am going to send them a mail soon and ask if I can do my big term-project over there...then it would have been easier to get a job there later. I also found one an e-mail adress to one of the lead programmers at Funcom in an articel he wrote for Game Programming Gems 2.....I am soooooooo hoping that I can work over there....it would make my day...NO...not day...LIFE:...;)

I know Funcom are not fools. I was just poking fun at Norwegian's knowing that you are from Norway. :p I couldnt resist.

I know they are/were recently hiring for a new in development MMO.
Good luck on that. :D

Oh and since we are on the subject. If you get a job there, break into the database and hack my characters! :D I could use some more credits

lol

Hehe...I am not going to apply at the moment.....I still have 3-4 more years to find out what I want to do. Depending on if I get that school job at CERN in switzerland. Hope I get that one. Then I have one more year to find out if I want to take my master in CS or in Game Design.

Take Game Design. Much more fun. :D

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Originally posted by Cander
Oh and since we are on the subject. If you get a job there, break into the database and hack my characters! :D I could use some more credits

lol

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Will do...was it level 1 you wanted to be...I can use ZeroMemory on the credits if you want...;)

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Originally posted by Cander
Take Game Design. Much more fun. :D

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Yeah it probably is...but probably not that many jobs...I want to end up at Lucas Arts or something...heard that they have an job opening too right now actually..:D

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Originally posted by NoteMe
Will do...was it level 1 you wanted to be...I can use ZeroMemory on the credits if you want...;)

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NOOOOOOOO! :p


Lucasarts would be a kick ass place to work. They always put out quality games.

Better yet, work for 3D Realms. You can work a game for 8 years with nothing to show for it and still get paid! :p lol

<Duke Nukem Forever joke>

I need a couple of shelf games vefore I can apply on a job at Lucas arts or any other big game programming firm. So I need a job at Funcom or something first...so lets hope that I get that in 3-4 years or so...

Well I know 3D Realms was hiring people a while back and was so desperate they actually said they would take people fresh out of school.

:wave:

Sounds like a nice place to start, AND end your career...