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Honeybee, I think you should realize how dangerous it would be for India and south-asia if Pakistan felt isolated and started threatening everyone with their nukes.
I feel its better for India and the world if the US tries working with Pakistan, controlling nuclear proliferation from them and taking care of Al-qaida in their country.
Slapping sanctions on their fragile economy is going to set back their democratic process and bring the mullahs to power.
I guess you know what you are talking about, because I can't make any sense out of your comments. Frankly and quite harshly, whatever is going on over the allies in the war against terrorism (read : US-Pakistan, US-Uzbekistan) is nothing but political co-cksucking.Quote:
Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
Honeybee, I think you should realize how dangerous it would be for India and south-asia if Pakistan felt isolated and started threatening everyone with their nukes.
I feel its better for India and the world if the US tries working with Pakistan, controlling nuclear proliferation from them and taking care of Al-qaida in their country.
Slapping sanctions on their fragile economy is going to set back their democratic process and bring the mullahs to power.
If it were so dangerous to leave Pakistan feeling lonely, maybe instead of Iraq, the US should have attacked Pakistan first....
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I believe you are forgetting the other 40 or so nations that participated in the liberation of Iraq.Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
If it were so dangerous to leave Pakistan feeling lonely, maybe instead of Iraq, the US should have attacked Pakistan first....
Damn Skippy!Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
If it were so dangerous to leave Pakistan feeling lonely, maybe instead of Iraq, the US should have attacked Pakistan first....
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In fairness HB, wouldn't attacking Pakistan, have been just as bad as attacking Iraq?
Surely the approach of trying to mold a country into a better neighbour is far better than just trying to force them to back down with aggression, which, let's face it, never works.
I realise that India and Pakistan have made some steps towards normalising their relationship, surely this is a more positive approach than the years of brinkmanship.
The problem with you is that you won't try understanding things that you don't like to hear...Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
I guess you know what you are talking about, because I can't make any sense out of your comments. Frankly and quite harshly, whatever is going on over the allies in the war against terrorism (read : US-Pakistan, US-Uzbekistan) is nothing but political co-cksucking.
If it were so dangerous to leave Pakistan feeling lonely, maybe instead of Iraq, the US should have attacked Pakistan first....
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Pakistan is no Iraq. pakistan is trying for democracy and is cooperating with the world community. Iraq has been defying sanctions and Saddam is a dictator.. there are so many human rights violations in Iraq.
Yes, AQ Qan was responsible for nuclear proliferation and there was possibly exchange of know-how with Korea. But the issue is that when Pakistan is cooperating, and is showing willingness to get out of this mess then there really isnt any case against war. And if the US did dare to attack a nuclear powered state, I'm sure they would fire a couple of nukes towards India.
Frankly I am dead against the Iraq war, and that's solely because the US didn't make enough of a case of the invasion and acted very arrogantly.Quote:
Originally posted by Ex-FB
In fairness HB, wouldn't attacking Pakistan, have been just as bad as attacking Iraq?
Surely the approach of trying to mold a country into a better neighbour is far better than just trying to force them to back down with aggression, which, let's face it, never works.
I realise that India and Pakistan have made some steps towards normalising their relationship, surely this is a more positive approach than the years of brinkmanship.
By the same token, attacking Pakistan too would be nothing but a disaster. However what I find appalling is the US bestowing rewards and aid on Pakistan, specially military aid, through the Non-Nato Ally Status. If it did want to reward Pakistan for its change of heart it could drive an economic reforms campaign there, instead of empowering them with more arms.
I don't mind the US giving aid to Pakistan, but if it's giving aid, it should also ensure the aid doesn't go to Al Qaeda (as in the past) or the insurgents operating in J&K.
For those who still don't want to believe Pakistan's role in fostering Al Qaeda, there was an article on BBC sometime in the last two/three days from the US military about an attack on an Al Qaeda camp, where a number of Pakistani intelligence men died in the attack. The US military didn't want to give any kind of warning to the Al Qaeda men about the attack, so they didn't inform even the Pakistan government about it, and at the last minute a high-ranking official from the US tipped them about the attack just to clear up any confusion as to India was probably attacking the camp. It also said the US officials decided to keep it secret that a number of Pakistani intelligence officials were also among the dead, just so Pakistan could save face and continue in the fight against terrorism.
Regarding turning Pakistan into a better neighbour, FB, let's clear up a few things:
1. In all the previous conflicts with Pakistan, India has never attacked first. It has only swung into action after Pakistan attacked. So if we had to 'force them to back down', it was only after they forced themselves on us.
2. In all the previous conflicts Pakistan has been defeated. This includes the struggle to free Bangladesh which was part of Pakistan for a few years. Defeat is always humiliating, and two of them have been specially so. The military leadership will naturally want to avenge these defeats. Compare it with the opinion in the US after 9/11 against Al Qaeda. I am sure the US will have more people with sensible reactions than in Pakistan.
3. All these years Pakistan has never seen a stable democratic government. I think even the military regimes haven't been stable. Islamic hardliners and fundamentalists have a very strong grip on the people's minds. And the only thing these governments and political parties have taught the people there is to hate India over the Kashmir problem. They need to hang onto it to turn the people's attention away from other problems and deficits, like economic problems. If the Kashmir issue is resolved, people will soon turn their attention to their own government's shortfalls and wrongdoings.
4. India has taken a lot of initiatives to start a dialogue and a peace process, but for reasons only known to them, the Pakistani rulers don't seem genuinely interested in seeing the talks to completion. Just yesterday Musharraf has issued an ultimatum that the Kashmir issue must be resolved within the next two months, otherwise he will not be responsible for any disputes and conflicts arising out of it. This kind of response simply cancels out any goodwill created by the initiatives undertaken by us. You should also ask yourself how long and repeatedly we should be pursuing this path, when the other side only seems eager to make political gains out of it, instead of finding a permanent and peaceful solution. By and large, the Indian government has been pretty responsible in its actions and reactions, unless the situation in the Palestine conflict, where each side is trying to outdo the other in provocative talks and violent actions. Do you think the US action of awarding NNAS to Pakistan, and opening way for further and enhanced military aid to the country, would be beneficial to the region?
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Possible exchange? I am sure it would be more conclusive than that. And I think IAEA has recently asked Pakistan for permission to inspect its nuclear installations precisely to verify if they really are the source of the proliferation.Quote:
Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
Yes, AQ Qan was responsible for nuclear proliferation and there was possibly exchange of know-how with Korea.
OK, so you mean to say your government has turned a blind eye towards something as severe as nuclear proliferation, and that too with the nations in the 'axis of evil', just because Pakistan is now an ally of the US?
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Just face it Honeybee, as Don Corleone said, "Keep you friends close but your enemies closer."
The US is looking out for US interests, not for you and India. If you dont' like it, sorry.