A Reminder Concerning VBForum’s Acceptable Use Policy

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Originally posted by manavo11
I think that two of the most reffered sites around must be planet source code and allapi.net. So it would be wrong to link to those websites in my sig even though I end up mentioning them in 1/5 posts? Just making sure...

Philip

PS I just removed the link to DeveloperKB like the others...

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Planet source code is a completey different site to VBF so personaly I can't see how it would be in competition.
Same goes for AllApi.net...which incidentally isn't being updated anymore :( And even if it was I would say that would be a cracking link to have as it's a great site and has helped many, many users in the past...but again...it's notin competition with VBF.

Brad or MartinLiss, would these sites be OK to have in ones link?

Business is a dog eat dogs world and I understand why competing sites should be "banned" from sigs, however this should be across the board and shouldn't take into account if you own the site or not...

Instead of comepeting against each other, wouldn't a good solution be to work together??? Form a sort of "partnership"?

Woka

Woka,
I tried that personally with GalahTech and they threw it in my face. They don't want to be partners with anyone. I'm just assuming that all sites are like that so it might be a dead idea. I'm all for creating partnerships with other sites. If your true goal is to help out developers and possibly make some money, I don't see why you wouldn't want to. VBF could link to me and I could link to VBF. It would be win win but without having to pay anyone for the advertisements. I totally gave up on forming "partnerships" after GalahTech threw a big hissyfit. I also gave up on visiting that monopolistic site. I hope that doesn't happen to VBF. Laters, Jeremy

I see your point woka. I didn't think of that. So all programming related sites with forums are considered bad? I am just trying to understand...

Thanks Jeremy :o

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Originally posted by JCScoobyRS
Woka,
I tried that personally with GalahTech and they threw it in my face. They don't want to be partners with anyone. I'm just assuming that all sites are like that so it might be a dead idea. I'm all for creating partnerships with other sites. If your true goal is to help out developers and possibly make some money, I don't see why you wouldn't want to. VBF could link to me and I could link to VBF. It would be win win but without having to pay anyone for the advertisements. I totally gave up on forming "partnerships" after GalahTech threw a big hissyfit. I also gave up on visiting that monopolistic site. I hope that doesn't happen to VBF. Laters, Jeremy

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The true goal, at the end of the day, is to help other developers...personaly the financial side doesn't bother me, but someone has to fork out the cash for the web site, and development :rolleyes:

Nothing is for free, there are always catches...doesn't bother me personally, but I can see where people are coming from...on both sides of the discussion.

I just hope things get sorted with a very small damage limitation.

I am not into politics, but my personal feelings are that if people work together then more is gained...but I am not the one with the finger on the button :(

Woka

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Originally posted by brad jones
the size and extent of people violating some of them has grown.

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Hey!

Just coz I'm tall.... :p

lol! This is an interesting twist. We ask if they've been losing members because of the ads and stuff, and they say no way, now suddenly there concerned about advertising in sigs? Maybe they're losing members after all? :p

Suddenly members are no longer allowed to express their right to free speech (or text in this case :p), and of course, the fact that VBF has always allowed for putting whatever you want in sigs (well, not everything, but... :p). Clearly, trouble in paradise. :)

And I'm just going to keep my sig till I get banned. :)

And whoever made the comment about not being allowed to be a mod at two sites needs to take a closer look at it all. If you have the ability to mod a forum, and are a mod on two competiting sites, theres nothing stopping you from abusing your power on one of those sites. Thats why they don't let soldiers work for the good guys and the bad guys. ;)

My 5 cents. :)

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Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Suddenly members are no longer allowed to express their right to free speech

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Oh, you're more than allowed to your free speech. But JM is more than allowed to delete it or ban if you if it violates their rules. Simple, really. :)

I don't see how linking another site, say GalahTech, especially one which has no advertisements, and makes no profit off its members can be considered competition.

Surely, people can members on any number of sites. But you wish to oppress them instead.

Your actions are monopolistic, and unhonorable.

I've been here since 1999, as you can see to the left by my name.

I have seen this site go from perhaps the best Visual Basic forum to a substandard, pathetically ad-*****d, and unspirited forum.

My loyalties to this site are ever-diminishing.

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Originally posted by DiGiTaIErRoR
I have seen this site go from perhaps the best Visual Basic forum to a substandard, pathetically ad-*****d, and unspirited forum.

My loyalties to this site are ever-diminishing.

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I think that pretty much sums up the views of all the original members. :)

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Originally posted by Pc_Madness
I think that pretty much sums up the views of all the original members. :)

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And now they restrict us because of their fallacies.

:rolleyes:

Atleast if you are going to point to a site, don't point to a site that does the same things you are complaining about. GalahTech might not have advertisements but they sure are trying to "monopolize" by forcing members to choose between helping other sites than GalahTech and helping only GalahTech. Come on. What a joke. I'd rather deal with the advertisements than a bunch of people that make you choose sides between sites that should probably be working together anyways. Laters, Jeremy

Seems you have a big problem with GT ... why don't you grow up and leave them be. If they're such a big problem then don't go there anymore. It's like not liking a particular supermarket : if they're not to your liking then leave them be. Whingeing incessantly about them is not going to win you any favours.

At the end of the day Brad is asking the members here to stick to the rules. And that's all he's asking. I don't remember him going on about GT. He's got more than work enough on this site to worry about others.
And if you don't like his rules then leave.
Whatever policy applies on various other sites is not for discussion here.

And since when did freedom to speech become freedom to ***** and moan ?

Good grief man, grow up already.

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Originally posted by crptcblade
D.E. - If I was a guest at your house, would I expect you to sleep on a pull out sofa, just because I had to?

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I would expect you to stop sneaking into my room at night and saying stuff like "it's ok, i play this game with my uncle all the time" :)

If we're going to stick by the AUP so strictly, that pop-up survey being done a while back was also a violation.

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Originally posted by Pc_Madness
I think that pretty much sums up the views of all the original members. :)

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No, it doesn't. Well, not mine, anyway...

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If we're going to stick by the AUP so strictly, that pop-up survey being done a while back was also a violation.

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It's their bloody site!

FFS grow up..if you don't like it, leave!!

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Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Seems you have a big problem with GT ... why don't you grow up and leave them be. If they're such a big problem then don't go there anymore. It's like not liking a particular supermarket : if they're not to your liking then leave them be. Whingeing incessantly about them is not going to win you any favours.

At the end of the day Brad is asking the members here to stick to the rules. And that's all he's asking. I don't remember him going on about GT. He's got more than work enough on this site to worry about others.
And if you don't like his rules then leave.
Whatever policy applies on various other sites is not for discussion here.

And since when did freedom to speech become freedom to ***** and moan ?

Good grief man, grow up already.

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I do have a problem with them but you are correct and no one should act the way you portray. Believe it or not, if you would had read my last statement better and read my other statements, I am trying to prove a point that people complain about VBF being a monopolistic site and then they go to advertise for GalahTech. Isn't that an oxy-moron of sorts when the site you are promoting does the same things as the site you are complaining about but in a different way? What's the difference between limiting external site promotion (VBF) and limiting which sites you can be affiliated with (GalahTech)? Not too much although the later is more of a problem for most because let's take user XxXxX. He/She is a huge wealth of knowledge in VB. This user is a mod at GalahTech. Well, this user also finds more sites to be a member of and spread his/her good knowledge. Well, this user ends up being mods at GalahTech and other sites and GalahTech finds out. Then, they proceed to send this user a PM stating that he/she must choose between modding GalahTech and this/these other site(s). How is that any better for the users than having to dodge a few ads? No one makes you click the ads but when you are forced to choose, how do you dodge that? Hopefully you see my point and that I'm not just flaming another site. All my posts have been regarding their horrible business tactics and since everyone seems to have a problem with VBF's tactics but still praise GalahTech, I think that my posts are well within the context of this thread. Do a bit more research befor you tell someone to grow up and stop bad mouthing a site. If you had ever dealt with GalahTech in the ways that many others have, and the ways I speak of, you'd be a bit pissed to. Just put yourself in the situation I just spoke of and tell me that you'd like to be forced into choosing between sites. :)

Perhaps you need to do more research. I have been, after all, a mod at GT.

And all I did was pointing out that Brad here wants no links to certain other sites and asks users here to respect the AUP.

Nothing more, nothing less.

You are a member here and on other sites on a completely voluntary basis and in return you adhere to the site's rules. Yes, there has been a bit of fracas but that has been a long time ago. We all agreed to settle it and there was no need to bring it all up again. Brad asks us to do away with the signature link and the members here will decide wether they'll listen to him or not.
And then it is up to VBF to deal with it as they are well within their rights. As is GT.

That's the whole deal. You and others don't like GT ? Fine, then don't visit us and leave it at that. There are plenty of others who might be willing to take a peek at GT if only to see what all the fuss is all about. GT may have exhibited poor form in the past but you here aren't much better.

We've gotten over it. Have you ?

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Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Perhaps you need to do more research. I have been, after all, a mod at GT.

And all I did was pointing out that Brad here wants no links to certain other sites and asks users here to respect the AUP.

Nothing more, nothing less.

You are a member here and on other sites on a completely voluntary basis and in return you adhere to the site's rules. Yes, there has been a bit of fracas but that has been a long time ago. We all agreed to settle it and there was no need to bring it all up again. Brad asks us to do away with the signature link and the members here will decide wether they'll listen to him or not.
And then it is up to VBF to deal with it as they are well within their rights. As is GT.

That's the whole deal. You and others don't like GT ? Fine, then don't visit us and leave it at that. There are plenty of others who might be willing to take a peek at GT if only to see what all the fuss is all about. GT may have exhibited poor form in the past but you here aren't much better.

We've gotten over it. Have you ?

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I don't see anything to get over as I have never had a problem. Like I said, and you seem to miss this, I am mearly pointing out the fact that there is alot of hipocritical actions going on here. My point was to prove that and I did. As for not visiting GT, I don't. I "got past it" along time ago. It's good to hear you are a mod at GT but if you'd like to see what I say is true, become a mod at another developer related site and prove me right. I have no quarral with you. I made statements to prove a point, nothing more. My actions, while not in the best interest of GT, were legit and very appropriate. Why don't you get over it as you obviously have a problem with people that don't agree with GT too?

I've no problem whatsoever with you or anyone disagreeing with a particular site (whatever it may be). As I've painstakingly pointed out.

I merely wanted this feedback thread to get back to it's original premise which was "remove links from your signature that are not conform to VBF's AUP".

It was you and the others after all who insisted that "Galah and it's policies suck". Fine, good for you but that has little bearing on the demand of the VBF team.

No-one asked you to drag up the old fracas yet you did. I've no problem with you not liking GT or any other site. But it has no place here since the members who have the incriminating links in their signature will make that decision for themselves whether to follow the demands of this site (at risk of being dealt with by Brad and his team. And quite rightly so). There's an option to turn off the signatures after all.
In fact, I said "don't like it then leave and quit whingeing about how bad it is".

So let's get to the original point, shall we ? Whatever happened in the past has no relevance here.

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Originally posted by Wally Pipp
I've no problem whatsoever with you or anyone disagreeing with a particular site (whatever it may be). As I've painstakingly pointed out.

I merely wanted this feedback thread to get back to it's original premise which was "remove links from your signature that are not conform to VBF's AUP".

It was you and the others after all who insisted that "Galah and it's policies suck". Fine, good for you but that has little bearing on the demand of the VBF team.

No-one asked you to drag up the old fracas yet you did. I've no problem with you not liking GT or any other site. But it has no place here since the members who have the incriminating links in their signature will make that decision for themselves whether to follow the demands of this site (at risk of being dealt with by Brad and his team. And quite rightly so). There's an option to turn off the signatures after all.
In fact, I said "don't like it then leave and quit whingeing about how bad it is".

So let's get to the original point, shall we ? Whatever happened in the past has no relevance here.

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I see what you are trying to get at. This might not had been the place to voice the fact that the people complaining are acting hipocritical and since that was the point of my statements, I will no longer talk about them. Hopefully you see that was the point. Laters, Jeremy

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Originally posted by JCScoobyRS
If you call GalahTech a competing site, you'd be right. They compete with everyone. If you have a site similar to theirs and both sites have common users, they don't like you. Don't even think about having someone that mods their site mod your site either because they'll threaten the person making them choose between sites. GalahTech seemed like a good site at first but once TechGnome and I setup our own site and we began to share common users, GalahTech became very defensive towards us. We made the mistake of asking someone to be a mod for our site, that was also a mod for GalahTech, and this user was forced to choose between sites. What a crock? I use VBF and my site only from now on. Laters, Jeremy

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Being the mod in question, I must ask you to get over yourself.

GT has perfectly acceptable reasons for doing so. Being a forum moderator is a job where you have responsibility and it also shows commitment to a certain site. I am committed to GT, and I didn't hesitate in choosing my site.

Another part of the reason is that I only access DevKB from work where I still have to use IE5.5, which is incapable of displaying the pages properly - the layout is ok, but parts of the contents are simply cut off.

But I don't like this particular case now being held against my favourite tech site. Not with me being involved, even if you never mentioned my name. Fact is, with being Debate mod at Galah and tech mod at GT, I indeed run out of time to do anything else if I don't want to spend all day on the forums. Worse, my quiet job at the military is ending in a month and the time I use at the forums will actually be time where I could be productive.

When I agreed to mod at DevKB I already knew that I would have to give up the job when your user base grows, but I thought I'd help you out a bit in the beginning. It looked nice, and it's always nice to see a few more forums.

Of course all of this has nothing to do with this thread.
What about my VBF-countdown? The few people I have explained it to know it's actually some kind of anti-advertising :)

CornedBee,
You are correct. You are the person in my statements but you don't know what was going on behind the scense between other GT staff and myself when I tried to justify you being at both sites so your "Get over yourself" statement could had been avoided if you knew the whole story. I understand that being a mod is a "job" but I don't see why you can't be a mod at more than one site. In your short term of modship, you didn't really contribute so I don't see why it was an issue. (Not because you aren't good at what you do it's just we had no C++ and Java question in the forums so you didn't use your powers) You don't know the whole story and it would be good to get the facts before you bad mouth me. At the time, they didn't have any good reason to make you choose and that's what's so pitiful. You have a whopping 34 posts so I doubt that the time constraint was the issue. If you can honestly say that they wanted you to choose because your time modding at my site kept you from doing a better mod job at GT, then I will retract my statement but you can't. You were a mod for all of 2 weeks. You have the majority of your posts before you were a mod. And since you don't seem to know, we have tried to deal with GT many times, before your situation came up, and we always were dealt with in a very unprofessional manner. We wanted to link to their site for free if they'd do the same but they wouldn't even talk about it. They basically said "We can't fratranize with the competition." I've never said anything cross to you about your decision, as I feel you made the right one myself, but you can't tell me that my statements were wrong and that you were asked to choose between us and GT because of time or job performance. If either of those were problems at GT, that's your fault as you were never a mod anyways. (Like stated earlier, there was nothing to mod. Not a bash against your abilities.) Laters, Jeremy

P.S. - Thanks for your help with the site when you were there.

I'm not going to even try to address the VBF/GT/DKB dispute.... this is neither the time nor the place for such things.....
but trying to get back to the original issue of what is acceptable and what isn't in a sig block.
From what I've been able to see through all of the postings... is that it is OK, to link to another non-JMedia website IF I'm the owner/webaster - and then it ca nonly be a text link.....but at the same time the AUP allows links to other sites which are "publicly available sites and pages that the legal owners of the copyrights have created to make that material freely available to the general public" .... so, why can't others have a link to site XYZ? And, how does this affect "entertainment" sites (a question which was promised an answer yet to be provided)?
And as long as we are on the topic of the AUP.... what about this: "You will not use profanity in our forums, and will neither post with language or content that is obscene, sexually oriented, or sexually suggestive nor link to sites that contain such content." -- there have been a few avatars I've found questionable too....

Please - Let's keep this thread on the issues of VBForums and the AUP. If it derails again, then my option will be to close this thread and start a new one back on topic. Thanks guys.


Just some thoughts....

I'd like to ask that everyone avoid turning comments made by non-mods and non-Jupitermedia people into rules. If something sounds wierd, ask one of the Mods or me. Too many things here get twisted just because people want to twist it and the next thing you know everyone is saying it is a rule. I wish the same energy would be put into creating new icons by some of you
:bigyello:

Brad!

Recently added icons: :wave: :lol:

Wow!

I not even sure what to say at this point. Only thing that comes to mind is,

'I am going to take my marbles and go home if you don't play my way'

The pursuit of knowledge should never be limited! True there are cases where you do not want certain information given out but this is not a case like that. If this was classified information dealing with a new weapons or defense system, then I would shoot all of you! But it's not, and in the world of Science how do you think that progress was made? It was shared!

Do the following:

Agree to disagree and leave it at that. Those who have chosen to post here, have removed the links in thier sigs, so let it go.

J, isn't my tablet cool?

Katuil OUT

Katuil...you did that from your tablet? I'm green with envy. That's awesome!

yea yea you guys go ahead and write your "constitution" for vbf. How about making EVEYRONE to click on an accept button, since no one had to read the new "policy rules" when they registered?

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Originally posted by MrPolite
yea yea you guys go ahead and write your "constitution" for vbf. How about making EVEYRONE to click on an accept button, since no one had to read the new "policy rules" when they registered?

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Whoa! Where did that come from? If I remember right, we were all asked to read the AUP when JM took over.... I remember reading it.... if you didn't read it, that's your own fault. If you don't agree with it, then stop using the forums. It's that simple. by continuing to use the forums, you are implying your acceptance of the AUP, and should abide by it.
Quite frankly I think your sig is blatantly more in your face and advertisy than what I had....

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Originally posted by techgnome
Whoa! Where did that come from? If I remember right, we were all asked to read the AUP when JM took over.... I remember reading it.... if you didn't read it, that's your own fault. If you don't agree with it, then stop using the forums. It's that simple. by continuing to use the forums, you are implying your acceptance of the AUP, and should abide by it.
Quite frankly I think your sig is blatantly more in your face and advertisy than what I had....

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:D aaah shhhhh!!! dont say that:D I'm just complaining
hehe

:lol:

What really needs to happen is that the admins sit down and look at why they've added this rule. If they blaming other sites for a lack of visitors, maybe they should look closer to home first. Trying to restrict members on something that is considered pretty standard across most forums is abit on the silly side, and is hardly going to encourage other members to stay.

Spetnik - Nice attempt to plug your forum. :p

Anybody want a hug?

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Originally posted by Pc_Madness
What really needs to happen is that the admins sit down and look at why they've added this rule. If they blaming other sites for a lack of visitors, maybe they should look closer to home first. Trying to restrict members on something that is considered pretty standard across most forums is abit on the silly side, and is hardly going to encourage other members to stay.

Spetnik - Nice attempt to plug your forum. :p

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This rule hasn't been added.... it's always been there.... it's only just now being seriously enforced. If people want to play here, then they need to follow the rules.

I never remember such a rule under previous owners, and surely something like this would have been picked up when we went over the AUP when they wanted to copy our code and stuff.

Ah, I knew Spetnik couldn't stay away from this topic forever. However, What's this?!?! Spetnik has abandoned the campaign for free camels?!?! Our leader has fallen! ...Or did they finally send you one? Are you hording the camels? Are you a traitor to the cause? :lol:

Anyway, On Topic:
I agree with the mods mostly. We come here willingly, and they have rules to follow when we're here. If we don't like them, we don't have to come here.

However, for the sake of being a pain in the neck: What about a banner in a sig that's not really a link, but is simply a rectagular jpg image with a site name on it? :D

Users can just put the url in the website field of their profile. :)

I've been a member for a long time (before all this corporate B-S took over this site at any rate). I have taken alot of good tips from kind people here and in fairness, given a few as well. However it saddens me deeply that it has come to a point where I simply don't enjoy visiting this site for the exact reason so a-nally implied by the thread title.

The site is suffereing under competition owing to it's own corporate decisions and sponsorship making it difficult and irritating to navigate. This is compounded now by the attemptive alienation of whoever is left by making it highly obvoius that they welcome no reference to competition whatsoever. Rather than leaving this site as it was intended to be, as open-source and true to the heart of the Developer community at large, they prefer in general to force people to divide their loyalties.

Well, for me, the decision is easy to be honest. Most of the real characters giving the best advice have long since gone and as people quite rightly point out, "if you don;t like it, Leave"

So, one lastfavour chaps, Last one out, turn the lights off willya ?

Peeman.

Do people ever click on other peoples sig links? I know I don't so it's probably no big deal :)

How long to you figure it would take to ship me that seven-hump Wump? I want one of those!

Poor Brad, I had rectagulitus once. I almost went insane just watching TV. I had to eat waffles for breakfast for two months, but now I suffer from equilateral intolerance.

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Originally posted by The Phoenix
How long to you figure it would take to ship me that seven-hump Wump? I want one of those!

Poor Brad, I had rectagulitus once. I almost went insane just watching TV. I had to eat waffles for breakfast for two months, but now I suffer from equilateral intolerance.

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I think I got an email that aleged to have a cream to fix that problem.... :bigyello:

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Originally posted by JCScoobyRS

I don't choose to "plug" them but if anyone deserves it, they do. They started their site and have done nothing but bad mouth other sites, including this one. Why would anyone want to associate themselves with a site that can't get along with other sites? I sure don't and that's why I don't go there anymore. You've joined our site, although you haven't been there in awhile, and we don't say "stay away from GalahTech and VBF or else" like GalahTech does. There is a great developer that is a member of VBF, DKB and GT and I asked this person to be a mod, as he knows his stuff very well. He says okay and a month later, he has to resign because GT found out and made him choose. GT seems to have a problem with all other sites than themselves and it's dumb. Developers need sites to get help, not get penalized by politicians trying to run a website. Laters, Jeremy

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Yes l noticed that as well. Can't even go into our chat forum without falling over threads bad mouthing vbf and DKB:wave:

A few points of interest

- Could l ask any joint members we have with vbf to abide by the rules when posting at vbf. Brad runs the site, and let's not make his job any tougher.

- Approx 80% of our staff also staff other sites, and a few in fact run sites which are competition with GT in one form or another.

- Galah is not in competition with vbf. Galah is a chat site, no tech talk. :) GT is in direct competition with vbf, though l would add we have diverged somewhat from the Microsoft languages.

- I have never and will never ask a member to choose between sites. GT and indeed vbf can't always offer the exact help that some one may require, ergo it's in your best interest to belong to multiple sites.

- Direct emailing of our members about DKB is not acceptable, and is not likely to induce us to looking at any partnership deal. In fact this is considered spamming of the worst sort.

- On the grounds of unprofessionalism. Posting a thread in a forum clearly marked "Site Review" asking people to join your site doesn't really convey a professional attitude, and is not allowed at any site l know of.

- It may have escaped your notice but a lot of sites are promoted in one way or another at GT, including a direct redirect to another forum.

- "stay away from GalahTech and VBF or else" Oh for heavens sake grow up and stop the out right lying..

Cheers,
Jethro :cool: