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Hmmmm
Well in an earlier thread i actually answered that question :)
As for the quote, if you read a few threads above i am actually replying to a comment regarding a "mind your own business" policy.
Anything else?
We ought to ship the entire US off to Mars.
I hear mars is nice this time of year.
I wanted to post this a while ago but my internet wouldnt work lol:p
This thread has made me lose all respect for Guv...
As Kzin graciously pointed out what ur doing is fairly similar of some nazi regime back in the 1930's who started a "small" war.
I don't think u studied Islam very well. Islam has actually been one of the most peaceful religions. They never forced anyone to believe in their religion (they took over Spain but let the Christians be) and they actually respected other religions (specially christianity and judaism). All these terrorists lately don't even follow the Quran (Koran) but are just extremist points of view. Besides what u mentioned earlier about the celebrating palestinians... that was prerecorded footage from a muslim holliday. CNN is just BS.
Christianity has actually been more barbaric than pretty much any other religion ever created. So should we just kill off 1 billion people? There's also 700 million Muslims and a large percentage aren't even Arab, so you're argument is flawed.
Also, Guv, I might be wrong but u sound a bit xenophobic...
Aerials
I know what you mean. Guv is obviously, in many ways, a very intelligent person but sometimes he can be highly insulting and condescending to others who disagree with him.Quote:
This thread has made me lose all respect for Guv...
The point is that we are fighting an internal enemy. For instance, when you have a cold and go to the doctor and he gives you antibiotics. When you take the antibiotics all or most of the bacteria in your body is killed off. That is why it is recommended that you take acidolphis to replenish your intestinal flora after taking any type of antibiotics. :p Anyway....... The point is that the
antibiotics that you take don't care wether the bacteria is good or bad. They are just killed. Now the same type of treatment should be used to to treat the virus that the united states is currenty infected with. All i am saying is that all should be treated as a potential enemy and properly checked out.
And as for closing the borders i think that is the right thing to do.
The US or any other country should not be a revolving door for any person or persons wishing to engage in illegal activity. Plus there will be a point in time where enough is enough. China limits the amount of children one can have. The same should be done in the US.
And any brittish people that don't argee with my views that's too bad because the day will come when you will become the minority in your own country.
Well, how do you intend to close the border? To everyone? What about peope who have families in the US and want to visit them? What about business people who come to buy and sell products in the US?
Or do you close it to a certain ethnic group? But they might have families in the US, or could also be business people... also how do you tell if a person is of a particular ethnic background.....
ie: do you actually have a practical approach for this (or any understanding of the social, civil and economic ramifications of such actions)?
- gaffa
So what would you suggest? To have people come in and out as they wish? To move about in the shadows totaly undectected.To hide behind false so called non-profit organizations.
Well, with regard to the US at least, they could probably do with decent communication between the various intelligence arms, given that a number of the terrorists on the planes were known, it's just that the fibbies didn't pass on the info the the CIA or vice versa...
The short answer is that you simply can't afford to close the borders. You either learn to live with such actions, or work out why a paticular target is a target in the first place (talking about countries here) and fix the problem at the root.
As long as you understand that you will never get rid of all dissent completely, then you have a chance of at least improving the situation.
If closing the borders seems like such a logical solution, why, 10 months later, are the borders still open? Cos it's not a decent solution after all.
- gaffa
I don't see any reason anyone should lose respect for Guv. He or she is merely spewing, and defending, media propaganda, believing it to be the right thing.
Guv, I gave a good enough argument, as have several others. The only reason you may view them to be "fallacious" :rolleyes: is perhaps because they don't agree with yours. Whatever the reason is, the arguments have been provided. Look at them.
Perhaps, you should also step back and take a look at what you're trying to incite. My post had a relevant analogy. It starts off with a small (seemingly innocent to you) idea, and leads to some of the darkest chapters in human history.
Yeah ...
Send 'em all to Mars, that's what I say !
/predicts the appearance of some wellknown US dickheads (we all know who they are) come 4 o' clock ...
Last I checked Madeleine Albright went away when Clinton did (thank god).Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
I had quite a lot of sympathy for the US citizens till now. But after reading this thread and the remarks by some of your bigshots in the government, Colin Powell and Madaleine Albright being some of them, I have come to think of US as a country run by idiots who know nothing but bullying others into acting to the benefit of US. They want to rule the world and they don't want anyone to oppose them. For e.g. your Mr. Powell doesn't have any asterickasterick business talking about J&K. And the same would go for most other crises.
And the citizens of US are just scared *hit after Sep 11, because they have suddenly found out that being citizens and residents of the world's mightiest might doesn't ensure them a safe life. Ha!
Apologies to those citizens who don't fit the above description.
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And we of course thank you for your sympathy. But why stop now? The only crime of the people who died on 9/11 was to show up for work just like you and I do. They were innocent victims and had nothing to do with the countries political agenda. I think people forget that we are all human beings and that when any tragedy like this happens anywhere in the world it is a sad and terrible thing that any innocent person dies. To say something like I don’t feel sorry for you now because of what a government says is just plain insensitive and wrong.
And imagine that, the US looking after its own people's interest. Doesn’t your country do the same? And I don’t think the US wants to "rule the world" as you put it. We do have the power both economically and militarily to probably make a go at ruling the world, however I think the primary interest of the US is to look after and keep safe its own citizens. I see our current actions as doing just that.
Also you seem rather pleased that people in the US now have to live with the threat of terrorism hanging over their heads. How nice of you. I’m sure that when the next attack happens and some innocent women and children die you can go dance in the streets and celebrate their deaths, because after all they deserve it for what Mr. Powell might have said.
Your last sentence is just a copout. Say what you mean. If you hate the US and all its citizens just be bold and come out and say it. Don’t post some lame disclaimer to try and cover your ass.
Enter no. 1 ...
I live about 15 minutes away from New York City and I believe that the US is a great place to live. Are we perfect, probably not, but I will still stand by the choices our president makes.
Everyone has thier own oppionion and can view the US any way they want to. We should all be happy that we live in societies that will allow us to have our own opinions and basic freedoms compared to some other parts of the world.
You say it’s a sad thing people lost their lives in 9/11 but in a previous statement you said that you lost all sympathy for them. So you’re saying that because you don’t like the foreign policy of the US that now its ok that innocent people died? And if it happens again, good?Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Yes, it's a sad thing that people lost their lives on 9/11. Shouldn't have happened in the first place. Now could the US government be expected to learn from their mistakes, at least after so many lives had been lost? Nope. Your soldier-turned-politician Powell has to prove to us that he is a dickhead, Wally add one to your list again. Is your government trying to stop a second 9/11 or provoking it by saying it should dethrone Saddam? Who gave your pres the right to annouce it? How does it make him different than rulers such as Ayatullah Khomeni?
There are a lot of complex issues revolving around what is going on and I’m sure that you or I cannot fully understand the intent or reason for everything. However if Saddam is sponsoring terrorism that is killing US citizens than the US has every right to do something about it.
I agree that we should stay out of the India and Pakistan mess as much as possible. Believe it or not a lot of Americans feel that way. However, I do think as the world leader the US should try to do something to foster the peace process between those two nations. As for Bin Laden I think its best left up to the CIA now and other covert forces to deal with him. Last I heard those governments (meaning India and Pakistan) didn’t support him in any way, so I can’t see invading either of those countries to get him. If you remember the Taliban controlled much of Afganistan when we went in and the oppression on the Afgan people by the ruling Taliban government was widespread. Most Afgan people were glad we liberated their country from the Taliban. We are now helping to get the new Afgan government going and trying to foster a more democratic government. Can’t see how that is a fiasco as you put it.Quote:
Talking peace between India and Pakistan, and at the same time giving huge military aid to Pakistan seems to be your idea of protecting US interests, isn't it? Ironically US has just been doing that, by trying to intervene into matters not even remotely concerned with itself. Remember 'Nam, if you want a good example. The recent bin Laden fiasco is another eye opener, if you care to open your eyes. After so much hue and cry and virtually wiping out whatever was left of a nation, where's your target? God only knows where. So do we assume you will next take up Pakistan, then maybe India and any other country within the vicinity where bin Laden could've probably gone?
We didn’t bombard an entire nation. We went after an oppressive Taliban government who sponsored and backed terrorists that killed thousands of innocent Americans. In the process we liberated thousands of Afgans from a brutal regime and killed or captured people who were responsible for terrorist attacks around the world. And you are angry that we are trying to resolve other conflicts around the world by preaching peace? This I don’t understand. Would you rather India and Pakistan go to war and nuke each other when the US might be able to do something to stop it? I’m sure if we left them alone and did nothing you would be the first to condemn the US for sitting idly by when we could have done something. In other words no matter what the US does your still not going to like it.Quote:
If your government has the right to bombard an entire nation just because some terrorists from that land destroyed the WTC and killed a few thousands of people, how can you preach restraint to India, which has lost more than the WTC victims in the last couple of decades to militants from Pakistan? We should have wiped out Pakistan about 4-5 times, going by your example. Or for that matter, what right do you have to talk about the Israel-Palestine conflict, when you yourself have chosen the path of super-violence to counter terrorism?
Wishing another person to “live in terror” just because of what someone’s government does is rather brutal isn’t it? I mean are we not all human beings who have a right to live in this world free of terror no matter what nation we are from? Wishing ill will on anyone no matter what nationality is just wrong and evil.Quote:
Your comments about me or for that matter anyone going and dancing next time some innocent people are killed by terrorists shows that you fit the description I have mentioned. Sorry dude, learn to live in terror, as most people in the other countries are, and you have only you and your government to blame for it.
I always vote. And I do just that.Quote:
If you think you are a person who would mind his own business, his own job and family and would like to live a quiet life, without trying to bother about the world affairs, do your duty as a citizen and vote those people to power who think like you.
The thing is there are some who hate the US for those reasons. I don’t know why you hate me or why you hate the US so much. If you want to tell me it’s the government and our foreign policy I can say probably half the Americans will agree with you, we don’t always agree with what our leaders do. So don’t paint everyone who lives here with your broad brush of bigotry. Try to get to know a few more of us before you lump us in with our leaders whom you despise.Quote:
PS: You really are a dickhead if you think people hate US just because it's rich and powerful. One because US is neither rich nor powerful as most people would like to believe. Second, most people value other things than money and power as more important in life.
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I agree with this, and I am an American.Quote:
... But after reading this thread and the remarks by some of your bigshots in the government, Colin Powell and Madaleine Albright being some of them, I have come to think of US as a country run by idiots who know nothing but bullying others into acting to the benefit of US.
As for living in fear... If you don't want to live in fear, then move away from large cities. There is no point for a terrorist attack on a small town or city near the middle of the US. Terrorists go for large, easy targets, such as New York City. Move to sunny Arizona or New Mexico. There isn't much there that mindless people would want to destroy, so it is much safer. If you want to continue living in fear, then just move to a large city such as LA or NYC, and get a job in the highest building around... American's have choices, and most of them choose to live in fear, albeit not purposfully. I choose to live right here in California, about 30 minutes east of LA because even this close, there isn't as much of a threat of being attacked by terrorists as in a large city.
I'm gonna quit rambling now because I got off track, I think, and I need to get back to work. :rolleyes:
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I'm dissappointed in you honeybee.Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
I had quite a lot of sympathy for the US citizens till now.
:(
Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
And the citizens of US are just scared *hit after Sep 11, because they have suddenly found out that being citizens and residents of the world's mightiest might doesn't ensure them a safe life. Ha!
Quote:
Originally posted by MidgetsBro
I agree with this, and I am an American.
As for living in fear... If you don't want to live in fear, then move away from large cities. There is no point for a terrorist attack on a small town or city near the middle of the US. Terrorists go for large, easy targets, such as New York City. Move to sunny Arizona or New Mexico. There isn't much there that mindless people would want to destroy, so it is much safer. If you want to continue living in fear, then just move to a large city such as LA or NYC, and get a job in the highest building around... American's have choices, and most of them choose to live in fear, albeit not purposfully. I choose to live right here in California, about 30 minutes east of LA because even this close, there isn't as much of a threat of being attacked by terrorists as in a large city.
I'm gonna quit rambling now because I got off track, I think, and I need to get back to work. :rolleyes:
Like I said earlier, I live about 15 minutes away from NYC and I don't know anyone that is scared or living in fear. The week of Sept. 11 I was living in fear. Not knowing exactly what happened, if it would or could happen again. I saw the towers smoke and tumble to the ground from my roof.
But after that week ended, all the fear turned to partriotism. I love America and would never leave this country or be forced to live in fear in my country. I've been to "Ground Zero", I've gone to the top of the Empire State Building, and the torch of the Statue of Liberty since everything happened. Every weekend I'm in NYC bar hopping.
Are there people living in fear in America now, I'm sure there are. But most of them do not live in or near NYC or Washington.
Look everyone, this is not about critisising America. This is about whether America should adopt a racially discriminatory policy with regards to incommers.
MasterBlaster
You are full of crap.Quote:
Scared? Who the F**K are you calling scared? Pissed is more like it man. This is the United States of F**ing America your talking about, not France. The reason we have all of the things we have today did not come to us because were a bunch of scared little pusssies that run and hide when a few pieces of crap step up to the plate and wanna rumble. The worlds mightiest dosn't ensure us a safe life? Bullcrap! So they killed a few thousand of us. There are millions more of us still here ready to eat nails and piess bullets at those Little Ball Less DickLess DonkeyFookin ******s.
the united states has one of the most impressive military records in history, so simonm, he is not full of crap. Racial dsicimination has gotten a bad name. A government has every right to deny rights to some groups, especially in a democracy. let the people vote on it.
I would just like to say that I am against ingesting nails or any other building materials for that matter.
Let me guess, television told you this, and you think it's true. :rolleyes:Quote:
And the citizens of US are just scared *hit after Sep 11, because they have suddenly found out that being citizens and residents of the world's mightiest might doesn't ensure them a safe life. Ha!
Another flame war...
Honeybee
You're right about how USA should mind her own business but I don't find any reason to blame all Americans for the policies of USA government. Most of them even admitted here that USA government is run by idiots!
You're right that USA should eliminate this problem from its root instead of (or in addition to) just going after a few groups and that's it. Some Americans died then too bad and tragic for Americans and all of us but the real problem is with USA government. Do you think USA can prevent these kind of attacks by just going after whoever attacked? I don't think so. If Usama is Al-Quaida dies then there might somebody else who stands up against USA only because he has been vicimit of USA policies directly or indirectly. An example would be USA military in colombia (I think there is). What if some colombian rebels had took responsibility for the 9/11 attack? There excuse would have been that USA was helping Colombia against them in military action but then USA lost her civlians, right? So a best solution would be that USA should make her military stay at home and solve the problem some other way because only American civlians will be freely targeted which isn't any good.
Until now, the fight in Afghanistan is going quite well but there are a few (or a lot of) incidents in which civilians have been targeted [accidently]. Now USA military doesn't take responsibility and starts finding excuses like that there were Talibans hiding, etc. I think this will only lead to some of those civlians becoming violent against USA. Helping Afghanistan build from start again is a pretty good thing and I think USA should keep it up.
No wonder USA military has a pretty impressive record from the past. Why is that USA is the only one who has fought tons of wars mostly against poor countries in the past century? I also see that USA is trying to "help other countries build(not Afghanistan here)" but why send 100s of troops with a piece of aid and then mess up everything by turning it into a fight in the country you're aiding to. I don't know if USA is economically strong because of this military spread out all over the world but you can look at countries like Canada, for example: You can help other countries without sending your military there. You can solve problems between two countries politically without sending your military there or providing military support.
USA should also know the difference between a terrorist and a non-terrorist. If somebody like Usama did kill some innocents then it doesn't mean that every Mull'ah with beard and stuff should be at least gone the jail and there should be restrictions put on him. Same thing goes for Kashmir problem. Powell has visited India and Pakistan like 2 or 3 times but there is no change in the Kashmir issue except that USA has asked Musharaff (another dickhead) to stop militants from going into the occupied Kashmir. Has it solved the problem? Nope! Flow of militants to occupied Kashmir is almost stopped but civilians are still dying, being arrested, tortured, etc. Is there some mysterious desease causing all these deaths or what?:rolleyes:
Snakeeyes1000
Have they? That's news to me...:rolleyes:Quote:
the united states has one of the most impressive military records in history, so simonm, he is not full of crap.
Let's have a look back shall we? Well, there's vietnam...that didn't go to well, did it? And what about Korea? That ended in a stalemate if I remember correctly. And they've certainly got a habit of turning up in wars late...
Considering they've only been an independant country for two around two hundred years, they haven't really got much of a record attall to be honest.
No ****. Racial descriminiation has gotten a bad name. Why's that I wonder...? :rolleyes:Quote:
Racial dsicimination has gotten a bad name. A government has every right to deny rights to some groups, especially in a democracy. let the people vote on it.
And your government, more than any other, has no right to deny the rights of particular minorities. I thought America stood for freedom and the rights of the individual?
Tell you what, mate, you're full of it as well...
In regards to abdul's post: You say that the US Military should keep out but then blame the US for the problems in Kashmir and Columbia not being solved......do you think we should help or not?....you can't tell us not to and then blame us because we aren't. :confused:
OK
Let's get one thing straight. Humans are stupid. Things like this will continue happening for a loooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnngg while.
Now that that's out of the way, a few things about the US (government mostly if ur american dont get mad, although if u do, I couldnt care less)
Let's see how much the US cares about the rest of the world... until they had a taste of it, they couldnt care less about terrorrism. The WTC isnt much of a big deal, it was just exaggerated. More people die because of terrorrism every year in other countries but the US doesnt start the so called "War on Terrorrism" until THEY get attacked.
The US military also isn't the best ever and probably never will be either.
By the way patriotism is dumb in my opinion and so is being proud of your country and its greatness. As far as I know, you didn't make the country "great", other people did. No reason to really be proud now is there.
P.S. If anyone says I'm doing this cuz im envious of the US or live in fear they're either a)misguided or b)dumbasses
P.P.S. I agree with you simon, he IS full of crap
:(
ok i like the first part of your message to a certain extent ( but they really CANT do anythin :p)Quote:
Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Your damn right we should profile people crossing our borders. I'm sorry to the person who is not a terrorist but get's hassled at the border because of his looks but, hey F U buddy, would you rather get hassled at the border or blown the fook up sight-seeing. As far as closing the borders, no we shouldn't, this country was built by imigrants made great by imigrants. Let that be a lesson to the other countrys who hate the US. We are made up of your garbage your poor hungry homless and persecuted. Remember our ancestors at some point in time left your countrys because your country sucked. Now look what we built, a rich powerfull nation. woops. sorrry if we pissed you off. If your country still sucks do something about it. Don't tell me you cant do anything about it because that is BS. Look at Europe. Damn near the whole continent was trashed after 2 world wars and look at them now. Rich and powerfull. The reason they are rich and powerfull is because they didn't sit around feeling sorry for themselvs blaming other countrys when they should have been working on making their nations great again.
Really, I am full of crap? If there Is one thing you can say about America is that we have always been willing to fight when some one fooks with us. I believe the last "big" example of that was a place called Japan. Don't underestimate the American People. If you don't believe me dress u[p oin an Osoma costume and take a stroll through central park yellin New Yourk Sucks and see what happens to you.
I don't see whats so grreat about being barbaric and violent though :rolleyes:
As blunt as MasterBlaster puts it, I agree.Quote:
Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Your damn right we should profile people crossing our borders. I'm sorry to the person who is not a terrorist but get's hassled at the border because of his looks but, hey F U buddy, would you rather get hassled at the border or blown the fook up sight-seeing. As far as closing the borders, no we shouldn't, this country was built by imigrants made great by imigrants. Let that be a lesson to the other countrys who hate the US. We are made up of your garbage your poor hungry homless and persecuted. Remember our ancestors at some point in time left your countrys because your country sucked. Now look what we built, a rich powerfull nation. woops. sorrry if we pissed you off. If your country still sucks do something about it. Don't tell me you cant do anything about it because that is BS. Look at Europe. Damn near the whole continent was trashed after 2 world wars and look at them now. Rich and powerfull. The reason they are rich and powerfull is because they didn't sit around feeling sorry for themselvs blaming other countrys when they should have been working on making their nations great again.
Really, I am full of crap? If there Is one thing you can say about America is that we have always been willing to fight when some one fooks with us. I believe the last "big" example of that was a place called Japan. Don't underestimate the American People. If you don't believe me dress u[p oin an Osoma costume and take a stroll through central park yellin New Yourk Sucks and see what happens to you.
Also, the US is the most powerful, and the most strategically superior. Ever notice that very few countries dare speak up against it? (Except for the ones under sanction, like Iraq, iran, n.korea and libya. Some more strategy for you.)
The US actually spends its own resources and man power to help and lead helping other nations. It's actually bestowing a favor.
As for the meddling in the affairs of other nations, hey, that may exist too, but you can't ignore the above points, they must be acknowledged.
:(
MasterBlaster
Look, let me just say that I don't hate America, but I still think you're full of it.
Is there supposed to be some sort of logic in there some where? Because I don't see it.Quote:
Your damn right we should profile people crossing our borders. I'm sorry to the person who is not a terrorist but get's hassled at the border because of his looks but, hey F U buddy, would you rather get hassled at the border or blown the fook up sight-seeing.
I tell you what you should do. Round up all the convicted terrorists you've got so far and analyse them for common characteristics. If the majority of convicted terrorists have big noses, stop all people with big noses crossing your border. If they tend to have small ears, stop those sort comming in as well.
If you've got to resort to those sort of tactics, you're obviously scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas.
All I'm saying is that restricting people on the basis of physical characteristicss will inconvenience innocents while the crafty ones will get through anyway.
I don't underestimate the American people. I just think you're talking nonsense.Quote:
Don't underestimate the American People.
it doesnt matter what the americans try to stop them comming into there country, theres always going to some one somewhere who hates america what they do. even if its the citizens themselves. trying to ban all of a nation from comming into america isntr going to a lot of good if there are people willing to do damage already on the inside?
:(
MasterBlaster
There's no reason to suspect that this "tool" will help prevent a single terrorist attack against America. One thing's for sure though, you'll piss a load of people off and for no (measurable) gain whatsoever.Quote:
Profiling is a tool law enforcement agencys use to help identify criminals. If this tool helps even if it only catches one terrorist that is one terrorist who wont be killing Americans.
Pretty much everything that you've come out with. It's so absurd that it defies explanation.Quote:
*** is that supposed to mean. What did I say that was nonsense and why was it nonsense?
:(
a few points I would like to make:
1.Simonm, you are obviously jealous of the United States.
2.I am not an American. They are the most powerful nation on Earth, I have been there, and I give them due respect. No country is perfect.
3.If every muslim caught in the United States was executed, are you telling me that terrorism in the United States would be a problem?
4.The United States' military record isn't spotless. England's is much worse, and Russia's is much better. India and the middle-east is a joke among most of my defense department co-workers.
5.The United states really represents a unique form of government. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I give them credit.