Printable View
It's pure jealousy. No other products on the market can compete with Microsoft. They can outblow all of the other Office tools including Corel Office. And not to mention Netscape? Oh please, it's so damn slow. Explorer is much faster. I'm not even going to go into the development Tools because we know that Visual Studio can mop the floors off Borland.
So nicely putted. I agree with you 500% REM. There are simply losers out there. The best things in the world will always have small glitches, but people just like to pick on them and can't see the big picture.
Take President Clinton for example. I think he is a great president. What does his sex or personal life have to do with his job. Other leaders in the world does sex acts too, so why make a big deal.
Wolfman John Howard couldn't find his dick with both hands.
I agree with IE being superior to Navigator and its free with Windows....oh it was free until the DOJ decided every one should have to pay for it.:(:(:(:(:(
Don't worry Bill the cheques in the mail. Please could you light a fire under your developers backsides and get Agent 3.0 rolling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I never knew that people would have to pay for Explorer now. That sucks and Judge Jackson sucks too. Microsoft would probably have it for free download off their website.
I will not use crap like Netscape.
I thought you were using Netscape Meg? IE4 eats still eats my resources but not as badly as before, that's odd.
Nope, I switched to Explorer about a month ago.
Yeah this thread belong to chit chat, as many other bat threads around here. Well, batman, i'm having my little trip next weekend, i got another phonecall again, thats typical.
Hehe, the good thing with ie, was that all bookmarks are shortcuts in the favorites folder.
I still won't use it but Netscape FINALLY released a new FULL version, not point realeses. It's better but still needs LOTS of work.
Andy
With IE there is an export option which allows ya to save your stuff anywhere on your system. Just import the file to re-establish. Am using Team Server so don't have the options to view how IE works. TeamServer is actually superior to both IE and Navigator. Talk to Fujitsu to get a copy.
Regards,
I like the Windows' standard, I like the GUI etc.
I don't like Microsoft.
If under a fair competition, if MS product is better than others, than of course, it deserves the glory and the money.
But do IE really designed and implemented better than Netscape? I don't know.
But just by common sense, I don't believe that MS is good in most area, why their software can be more effective in performance?? Ah....
IF MS hide some API only for their internal purpose without disclose to other developer, and put these into their own product, THEN IT IS UNFAIR COMPETITION...
Unless MS disclose the information or agree (and obey) to disclose the same information to others, and then they perform better than competitor. Then they really is the best in the industry.
As a technical person, if there is a short cut in OS, we should understand how much impact it is in the performance and stability (not to say intentionally slow down competitor's software).
In the past record of MS, it seems the competition is always unfair (take a look in the MediaPlayer and RealPlayer).
Microsoft made its money off the backs of others, from the ideas of others and from STEALING things from others.
Why do you think they bought a percentage of Apple Macintosh?
Steve Jobs caught Bill Gates with his fingers in QuickTime and the moron wasn't even smart enough to remove the copywright in the code before using it in M$ products.
So he was not only forced to buy a share in Macintosh (hence he wont destroy his own investment) but also had to sign contracts to release MS Office 98 FIRST on the Mac as well as IE 5 (which was released AGES before it was on the PC and was a lot better as well).
Bill is a Genious when it comes to working out whose shoulders to stand on to get to the top I will give him that... but it certainly wasn't as a result of the quality of the products he produces....
Good shout, Gen-X!
Windows 95 was just a copy of the Arcamedies O/S.
Bill Gates gets a big Thumbs Down from me.
I'd be much happier using X-Windows on Unix, that never crashes.
I'm not the biggest microsoft fan myself, but I don't dislike them either. They have done som marvelous things for the industry. The thing is, if you can come out with something better you can beat microsoft. Look at windows CE for example. It was basically the only OS for the Palm top. However you hardly see it anymore. Why, cause there was a better os release and the consumer went with it. When somebody release a better os for the PC enviroment I believe it could beat Microsoft. Until then windows is still the best all around os. And vb is still the best all aroung Programming language. I've done development with others and vb is the simplest to write and debug. If something better came along I'll go with it but until then Microsoft is the way to go.
Just My Opinion,
John
Uhhh....then why are you using VB and Microsoft stuff then Gen-X? Doesn't it makes you seem a bit full of it?
You do realize gen that Jobs stole the operating system first from xerox. also Jobs put gates into a position where he had to invest in apple and jobs massively increased his share of the company in the process along with his pocket book. I hate to tell ya but apple is just as guilt of its practices as microsoft. Bill was just smarter about it.
jdavison
What exactly have they done for the industry?Quote:
I'm not the biggest microsoft fan myself, but I don't dislike them either. They have done som marvelous things for the industry.
That isn't the case... its the old Video Recorder principle. Beta was a BETTER system than VHS but because there was so much VHS out there it won not by the merrits and QUALITY of its product but by the sheer VOLUME of the product.Quote:
The thing is, if you can come out with something better you can beat microsoft.
This is Microsoft... it isn't keeping its market share because of the quality of its product... it is keeping it because it is so infused and integrated into everything out there now we couldn't get rid of it even if we wanted to
VB may be simple to write and debug, I agree with you there... but VB isn't viable unless you are in an environment where you can install all its runtime files or you are in a corporate structure.Quote:
And vb is still the best all aroung Programming language. I've done development with others and vb is the simplest to write and debug. If something better came along I'll go with it but until then Microsoft is the way to
There is no such thing as being able to put a VB app on a CD and run it off the CD... even this simplest feature isn't possible.
I'm not saying Apple is any better/worse than M$... but at least their product is released at the time it designates, is far more stable, runs older software better and requires fewer patches and service releases applied to it.
This isn't saying Apple is better by a longshot, its just one highlighted point.
To the man with no name
I'm not stupid! The majority of the equipment, programming and computer useage is on Microsoft and their supported products... I use them because that is where the money is and that is how I make a living.. I am not going to be so stupid as to turn down 90% of the market for no other reason than I dislike the company and believe their product could be FAR better than it is.
There is nothing "full of it" in that... its common sense.
All I am saying is that if Bill Gates invested just 1% of his overall profit back into the testing of his products before shipping them out we would have had Windows98 released as Windows95 and Windows2000 released as Windows98....
Can anyone deny that they would have liked this?!?!?!
We got Windows95 and within 10 minutes of using it we found BUGS.... Are you telling me that a company as BIG as M$ couldn't find those during the testing process???????
Will someone wake this guy up. Whoever said that he is full of it, you are right. He just writes long boring messages trying to secure himself.
If you disagree why don't you actually state some reasons instead of shooting your mouth off and letting it dribble into your nappies?
I really can't stand people that take a swipe at something yet don't even have the intelligence or the GUTS to say WHY it is they have a different opinion.
:mad:
Or is monosybalic rhetoric your only capability?
Hey Gen-x!
How come your website dont work?
I think maybe you need to seek professional help to help control your anger to Microsoft <jk>
If you want some examples here you go:
1. Windows unlike mac can use multiple different drivers from many different companies yet you can use and of them because they created a module to act as an inbetween. This makes your life as a programmer alot easier.
2. MS compilers are the best I have worked with. They give very specific errors and where they came from unlike java and some of the C compilers I have dealt with.
3.They have made programming so easy with vb, that people like you can do it.
I have notice one thing since I have come on here Gen, that you will argue and try and make others sounf like an idiot but you never give and facts to prove your debat. Are your related to a politician?
If you have sometime when you are not writing those long boring messages, read JDavidson's posting and you might learn something smarty. The no name guy is right too, you are full of it. I read your evolution junk and some of it contradicts each other.Quote:
Originally posted by Gen-X
If you disagree why don't you actually state some reasons instead of shooting your mouth off and letting it dribble into your nappies?
I don't care what you can stand. You don't have the intelligence for me to waste my time to talk intellectual. You tried to portray yourself as an intellectual individual with all those fancy grandiloquence words but you are nothing more than just a sad case. You are a looser who criticize but still uses their softwares for a living. You should be grateful to have a job.Quote:
Originally posted by Gen-X
I really can't stand people that take a swipe at something yet don't even have the intelligence or the GUTS to say WHY it is they have a different opinion.
Or is monosybalic rhetoric your only capability?
Why don't you go and compete with Microsoft instead of using their software for a living? HMMMM.....
Is that intellectual enough for you? Name one thing in the world that is on the top, but have no errors. Can you name one? Of course not!
[Edited by Wolfman on 06-14-2000 at 05:07 PM]
I really need to proof read my post. My typing and grammar is horrible. Please accept my appologies;)
Where can we see the code?
Also, why should they have to give up their hard work of the source code? Any experienced C++ programmer can just copy the whole thing and make their own OS.
I have just packaged a vb app and ran it on another pc with no vb software installed. It installed and ran fine. Also GEN if you are going to quote me use all the information I gave with it. You take on line of my statement and ignore rest of to try and support your argument. VHS and Beta came out at approx. the same time. I do remember this. I will admit that in my opinion that the beta was better but it never caught on the same way that VHS does, mostly because of the marketing I believe( it was a while ago). But to give another example, Commodore was probably the most popular computer of the time by far but look what happened there. Also look at the intel chip. Intel was the sole cpu manufacture for pcs but AMD is taking more and more of the market. It can be done, you just need to build and market the better mouse trap.
That's probably because the runtimes were included with Windows or another of his software had installed them.Quote:
I have just packaged a vb app and ran it on another pc with no vb software installed. It installed and ran fine
jdavison
Perhaps you should do your research first. THe Macintosh doesn't NEED drivers... all peripherals that will work with it use the SAME STANDARD PROTOCOL to perform their tasks. This means you can just plug any Mac compatible printer in and IMMEDIATELY use it.Quote:
If you want some examples here you go:
1. Windows unlike mac can use multiple different drivers from many different companies yet you can use and of them because they created a module to act as an inbetween. This makes your life as a programmer alot easier.
No drivers, no installation, no proprietry applications like HP's print center... NOTHING
Secondly. Your "internet profile" can be generated on the Macintosh and ALL internet applications immediately use this profile because they have been written to use the standard interface. THis means you don't have to put your settings into Netscape AND outlook AND ICQ AND everything else.
When was the last time you used a Macintosh to base your spurious comment on?
Hehehhe... I agree here... althought sometimes I wonder if the reason it can give you such specific errors is because its introduced them itself. :)Quote:
2. MS compilers are the best I have worked with. They give very specific errors and where they came from unlike java and some of the C compilers I have dealt with.
Mmmm... now do I take that as an insult?Quote:
3.They have made programming so easy with vb, that people like you can do it.
Interesting theory. I don't support my argument with facts.... So using VHS/Beta as a "fact" to "support" my "argument" that quality doesn't always indicate largest market share was me just saying nothing at all?Quote:
I have notice one thing since I have come on here Gen, that you will argue and try and make others sounf like an idiot but you never give and facts to prove your debat. Are your related to a politician?
Perhaps my "fact" about the failed release dates of the Windows software again really didn't support my claim they could have done better? Or how about the example of print drivers on the Mac to "support" my debate that you have no idea what you are talking about when attempting to highlight a benefit of Windows over MacOS?
Mmmmm... Geee... If they are not facts I would be very interested to hear exactly what are?????
Wolfman
Oh but Mr Wolfman is ABOVE such petty mortal things like contradiction and making mistakes... Oh no... Mr Wolfman is absolutely perfect in every way imaginable.Quote:
I read your evolution junk and some of it contradicts each other
I admit some areas may contradict.. that is what being human is all about... Some of them are as a result of error and some of them are as a result of lack of understanding.
Whats your excuse for living with us mere mortals?
I doubt your ability to talk intellectual... So far I haven't seen a single postulation put forward and supported... just like I said before. You keep opening your mouth and keep dribbling.Quote:
You don't have the intelligence for me to waste my time to talk intellectual
Whats wrong with that? Are we supposed to just sit in a corner and shut our mouths and bow down to the great Bill Gates God for giving us the privilege of using his software?Quote:
You are a looser who criticize but still uses their softwares for a living. You should be grateful to have a job.
I have absolutely NOTHING to be grateful about for having a job... if it wasn't Microsofts products then I would be using other products and still getting paid sufficiently for it... Doesn't bother me.
Because unlike your unintelligent self I would never even consider the possibility that ANY company could produce software that would be able to compete with a company that holds the majority of the market knowing it would cost an inordinate amount for any business to completely change from MS to something else and STILL maintain connectability to everyone else who is yet to move.Quote:
Why don't you go and compete with Microsoft instead of using their software for a living? HMMMM
But then again.... if you were smart you would have realised this... So perhaps I should be the one who couldn't talk intellectually with you?
Actually it was quite stupid... had no supporting evidence and simply made derogatory comments... At least when I am being sarcastic I can add a few facts and examples to the mix.Quote:
Is that intellectual enough for you? Name one thing in the world that is on the top, but have no errors. Can you name one? Of course not!
Oh and I can think of one thing that is on the top and has no errors....
Mr Wolfman
NeilAvent
They are doing some changes on the server where my webpage is located and as a result PHP is currently inoperable until they have made their modifications.
Such is life on the internet.
jdavison
You really have no idea at all do you?!?!?Quote:
I have just packaged a vb app and ran it on another pc with no vb software installed. It installed and ran fine
Now that you have installed your application on the other PC go back and try running an application that used the OLD version of some DLL you just installed over the top of.
Or try copying your vb app to a floppy disk or a CDROM and get someone to run it from the CD... What you can't!?!? it wont fit on a floppy because although the application is only 84k the support files are 2MB??? Awww... what a shame
What you mean your comment about the WindowsCE? The software was appauling... Its completely different to compare 2 products that are functioning well enough to comparing the replacement of an OS because it was absolutely abismal.Quote:
Also GEN if you are going to quote me use all the information I gave with it. You take on line of my statement and ignore rest of to try and support your argument
So tell me JDavison... Consider this.
1. A new OS comes out. Its 1000% better than windows
2. In order to be this good it is NOT compatible with Windows
I am a company who is looking to purchase this new OS.
1. I have to purchase the OS for each machine I have. Thats 300 copies for my office.
2. I have to purchase applications that run on this OS, 300 Word Processors, 300 spreadsheets, 300 databases, 300 email programs, browsers.
3. I have software dedicated to my company... it cost several hundred thousand dollars to produce... I now need to RE-WRITE it for the new OS.
4. I have 7000 MS Word documents that I need to convert to the new Word Processor... that could take months if not years.
5. Everyone else in the world still uses Windows. What if I want to download some files from someone's windows machine? They wont work... what if I download files from the internet? They won't work.
So overall... even if the Operating System was 1000% better than Windows it would cost me the better part of a couple of million dollars JUST to change over to it.... not to mention the cost in lost business, lost production and the hassles of STILL having to deal with a world that mainly runs windows.
Do you start to see the picture yet?!?!?!
Please jdavison... I want you to reply to this and say whether you agree or disagree with the points of this example?
CBM was NOT the most popular computer of the time. The quality of the Amiga was superior at the time of its release (especially in England) being able to support a truely multi-tasking operating system but it failed due to the poor management of CBM... Despite being bought out by a German company and then again by an American company it still failed to get anyhere not only because of poor management but because MS already had too much of a hold.Quote:
But to give another example, Commodore was probably the most popular computer of the time by far but look what happened there
How do you think Mac survive today???? They don't "COMPETE" with MS... they find their niche and they attack it.
Oh brother!!!Quote:
Also look at the intel chip. Intel was the sole cpu manufacture for pcs but AMD is taking more and more of the market
We are talking about a product that requires "SUPPORT".
VHS/Beta requires Video Tapes. Majority of Video Tapes are VHS... therefor VHS wins.
Windows/Commodore/Mac requires Software. Majority of Software is Windows.... therefor Windows wins.
What exactly does the intel and AMD chip require that is not usable by the other which places this example in the same category?????
I agree with you that when the "choice" is not influenced by external supporting products and you can use everything available on BOTH products then quality wins...
But this isn't the case here.
I think that Gen-X has too much free time!
I'm not sure if I aggree with the above post because it's so long I can't be bothered reading it!
Take a Valium dood!
PAUL
I agree with you Paul!
Ha, how come my posting is back down to 1. I have posted many times in the past on this site.
Maybe John doesn't like you !!!
Hey, your signature has the word aussie. Are you from OZ? Do you know how to speak Japanese?
Ok even if MS don't give the full skinny on their API and other hidden niceties, till well after their own developers have cranked out the latest version of Office, they still provide the framework in an open fashion. Note the ease of getting at APIs.
For years Apple refused to allow access to the internal workings of their OS, that is why a lot of developers move to Windows and made it the number 1 OS for desktops.
Who wanted to dick around while Apple made their minds up about the next generation OS...should we go Next, should will go BeOs...now they are even talking about going to a Linux/Unix cross bred OS. These guys are idiots. Bill Gates was absolutely brilliant in getting a standard out, it may not be the best, but it will be improved on in subsequent releases. Meaning l can start development today, not when the vendor finally gives a direction.
64-bit for the Intel platform is only a year or so away, do you want to risk the wishy washy approach Apple will no doubt take on their OS for the Motorola equivelent, or will you invest in the Wintel consortium.
Apples are still desktop machines. AppleLink is a joke, and their so called network printing is a complete shambles. NT creams them everytime. Win2000 should also give Unix a run for it's money.:):):):):)
No offense to anyone...but as a desktop machine Apples are great...as a business tool they sux.
Yes to both... Why?Quote:
Originally posted by Tyler from Alaska
Hey, your signature has the word aussie. Are you from OZ? Do you know how to speak Japanese?
Paul
Hehehe... its got nothing to do with time on my hands and more to do with the fact that I type at about 130 words per minute which means the 5 minutes I spend on here from time to time churns out probably 2-3 times the amount of text most people can in the same time period...
Hey, I can't help it... ****, I have a typing speed of 45wpm on my left hand alone!!!
Jethro
I'm not supporting the Mac at all, I agree with you completely.... but jdavison was using incredibly poor examples that a "non-business" platform like the Mac beat hands down.
Thought I dispute your idea of API's being "easy to use" and "open".
1. Have you seen the registry API's... why couldn't they just make a class out of it?
2. Do you know what the API functions inside the rnaui.dll for Windows95 are? What there parameters are?
Admittedly there is more than enough info on major dll's but there isn't anywhere you can go and get a list of what is actually contained in lesser known ones.
POINT TO NOTE
Anyone who can get me a breakdown of the rnaui.dll gets a freddo frog!!!!
Tyler
Chat messages don't count towards your post total. The post total is supposed to reflect how much advice you give to other people and considering this isn't really advice all these messages won't be included.
If you read the previous statement l made mention of the fact that many API calls aren't document, or at the best are documented way after their use in MS Applications.
Hopefully with the breakup into an OS and a Apps Company this will improve.
l agree with you...API calls should be put into classes, this would make immediate and profound changes to the industries view of vb et al.
And who was the idiot that stated vb is easy to develop in. Sure if your apps never get beyond the "Teach Yourself VB in 21 days", but if you start having to use APIs, classes, and numerous third party addins the process blows out in complexitiy. We have a couple of intern programmers...Uni types working in spare time....and they are having great problems with some of the more advanced vb stuff even though they have been taught C++ at Uni......
It amazes me how some people say how easy it is to code in VB... I agree with you completely.
Hand them the task of writing 3 applications with one running on a remote machine as a console, the other being loaded as an NT service and running in the middle and the other being spawned dynamically to handle processes from the second one... with all of them talking via Winsock and being able to manage dynamically both a database connection and stick its fingers into Microsoft Project while being able to detect when "question boxes" are being displayed on the server so it can automatically press them....
And you will find these people run back to their tiny little VB apps and put their fingers in their ears.
Now attempt to write your code so that it is hetrogeneous across both WindowsNT and Windows95/98 (which have different registry structures, different API's etc), be able to access multiple Network resources and still be able to report any errors on the fly....
And thats just what I have to contend with this week... next week its back to completing a Document Management system that uses DLL's accessed through MS Word, connect to Visual Source Safe repositories (anyone who has seen the object model for VSS knows what I am talking about), interface with SQL Server to support both v6.5 AND v7.0 (yes they have different system tables), interact with the DLL's of someone elses proprietry software while being able to automatically detect the user and their privileges and allow them to not only control documents both in and out of this repository and database...
But do it all without having to ask the user many questions and keeping it so simple that even the bimbo secretaries can use it without breaking a nail.
Ah well... there is one thing I do credit VB with and that is rapid development.
Guess all good things come in time
[hanging out for polymorphism, inheretance and TRUE multi-tasking in VB7.... C has had it to itself for long enough]
That is the best point you have made so far. I'm not saying vb is the ultimate language. but in most case it is the most efficient and effective way to do things. From a web developers perspective I have found it to be the best of the language for overall use. I wont argue C++ and Java arent more powerful because they are but they are definately more complicated and more time consuming. Feel sorry for you about having to deal with SQL Server 6.5 though I have to say it was not one of MS better products but after working with 7.0 and Oracle I think SQL server is the better way to go although Oracle has better error handling. Good luck on your project, I can sympathize.
John
MS is the company that made Windows, so naturally (but not always) thier products are going to be better. Can you think of a development tool that can beat any of MS's tools? I can't.
I agree. A hammer is the best tool :)
Funny. But seriously, none of the other companies out there can compare with MS. Look at Borland C++ Verses Visual C++. Which do you think is better?