Religion is f**cked up all together. Especially Christianity and Catholicism.
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Religion is f**cked up all together. Especially Christianity and Catholicism.
<--------- :D :D :D :D :D :D
:D
Still won't knock any sense into him, though...
"Now listen, I don't want anyone to throw any stones at anyone, even- and I want to make this absolutely clear- even if they DO say 'Jehovah'"
MontyPython:TheLife of Brian
Honeybee, while I think you are just as misguided as J4U, I do hope that if one of you is right, it is you. J4U's god sounds like a psychopath.
Damnit Honeybee you're almost starting to sound sensible!
Yeah, I still remember those days when you were as nutty as J4U, but you didn't bury chit chat in posts, you just reported everyone's username...
I'm glad that you've grown out of that and become an upstanding member of the VB community. Given time, maybe J4U will too...
unlike some northern member's who post dribble all day and will never change. Oh hello there ben didn't see you.
Well, HB, until I get to chance to actually meet him, don't see any reason to believe.
It is much more likely that man invented gods to deal with life and death. Yours wouldn't be an isolated incident.
Listen plankton, when I want your snivelling little whiny arsed cry baby sherry smelling opinion, I'll beat it out of you! ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Ianpbaker
unlike some northern member's who post dribble all day and will never change. Oh hello there ben didn't see you.
I feel honoured :p
You know what I find amazing?
That you guys relegate me to less than an upstanding member of this community just because I stand up for what I believe in.
:eek:
Uhm... yes, J4U, that is how life is supposed to work.
You stand up for what you believe in. What you believe in is a crock, so we figure you for a quack.
Hitler and bin Laden stood up for what they believed in, and so did Thomas Jefferson and Martin Luther King, Jr.
Everyone is and should be judged by what they believe. Since your god appears to be a psychopath, and you have no evidence or defense to the contrary, I can only conclude, with fear, that you are a zealous psychopath, too.
*shrug*
This avatar is boring and I don't want this avatar any longer..
So , I'll drop it here and wear a new one.
http://www.vbforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=626785
Looks like a backhanded swing.
I regret that I've missed most of this thread.
I just wanted to say that the bible does not say that Jesus is God. I hope people aren't getting too confused.
I tried asking jesus4u in PM's what he has to say about Matthew 16:16, which explicitly states that Jesus is God's son.
I also tried asking him who could've possibly had the authority to "send" Jesus if he was God in John 7:28.
I've gotten no answer to those questions.
jesus4u, if you have anything to say about those scriptures, please let me know.
The Bible DOES say Jesus is God!
Again for all of those confused. Tygur is a Jehovas Witness and their founder changed the Bible from the original language. So if you read their Bible it will read differently from what I am quoting here.
JW say Jesus was a god. The original translations which are backed up and proven say Jesus was God.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ;
The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
*Now Tygur who could this be BUT Jesus Christ*
If Jesus or God or whoever it is truly was all emcompassing, it would have flown 2 airliners into Gerry Adams by now... :(
check this out as well
The Qur'an gives authority to the Bible:
The Qur'an, itself, the highest authority for all Muslims, gives authority to the Bible, assuming its authenticity at least up to the seventh-ninth Centuries. Consider the following Suras:
Sura Baqara 2:136 points out that there is no difference between the scriptures which preceded and those of the Qur'an, saying, "...the revelation given to us...and Jesus...we make no difference between one and another of them." Sura Al-I-Imran 3:2-3 continues, "Allah...He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)...as a guide to mankind." Sura Nisaa 4:136 carries this farther by admonishing the Muslims to, "...Believe...and the scripture which He sent before him." In Sura Ma-ida 5:47,49,50,52 we find a direct call to Christians to believe in their scriptures: "...We sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him. We sent him the Gospel... Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein, if any do fail to judge by the light of what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel..." Again, in Sura Ma-ida 5:68 we find a similar call: "People of the Book!...Stand fast by the law, the Gospel, and all revelation that hath come to you from YOUR LORD. It is the revelation that has come to thee from THY LORD."
To embolden this idea of the New and Old Testament's authority we find in Sura 10:94 that Muslims are advised to confer with these scriptures if in doubt about their own, saying: "If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee. The truth had indeed come to thee from thy Lord." And as if to emphasize this point the advice is repeated in Sura 21:7, stating, "...the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration. If ye realize this not, Ask of those who possess the message."
Finally, in Sura Ankabut 29:46 Muslims are asked not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians, saying, "And dispute ye not with the people of the book but say: We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and that which came down to you."
If there is anything in these Suras which is clear, it is that the Qur'an emphatically endorses the Torah and the Gospel as authentic and authoritative revelations from God. This coincides with what Christians believe, as well.
In fact, nowhere is there any warning in the Qur'an that the former scriptures had been corrupted, nor that they were contradictory. If the Qur'an was indeed the final and complete revelation, if it was the seal of all former revelations the Muslims claim, than certainly the author of the Qur'an would have included a warning against that which had been corrupted in the earlier scriptures. But nowhere do we find even a hint that the Bible was contradictory, or indeed that it was corrupted.
There are some Muslims, however, who contend that according to sura 2:140 the Jews and Christians had corrupted their scriptures. This aya says (referring to the Jews), "...who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah...?" Yet, nowhere does this aya state that the Jews and Christians corrupted their scriptures. It merely mentions that certain Jews have concealed "the testimony they have from Allah." In other words the testimony is still there (thus the reason the afore-mentioned suras admonish Muslims to respect the former scriptures), though the adherents of that testimony have chosen to conceal it. If anything this aya is a ringing endorsement to the credibility of those former scriptures, as it assumes a testimony from Allah does exist amongst the Jewish community.
J4U, I think I missed something. It is commonly accepted that the Jews, the Christians, and the Muslims all worship the same god. The problem isn't the Muslims turning their back on the Gospel, but the Christians turning their back on the Qu'ran, or the Testament from John out in Utah for that matter. It is the same problem with the Jews turning their back on the Gospel.
Each of these religions is backwards compatible, its just not all users think the upgrades are authentic.
In either case, the Jedeo-Christian-Islamic god is a psychopath. :)
Well, he may not be, but the Jews and Christians think he is. I don't know about the Muslims.
So let me get this straight. You didn't even look at those scriptures I mentioned?? Look at them in your own bible and answer my questions. Unless your bible was "changed" it says that Jesus is God's son and that Jesus was sent to earth by someone else.Quote:
Originally posted by jesus4u
Again for all of those confused. Tygur is a Jehovas Witness and their founder changed the Bible from the original language. So if you read their Bible it will read differently from what I am quoting here.
Wait, you two are going to quibble over syntax and semantics? Are you guys Religious Lawyers? :)
I'm still dramatically upset by the "Love Me or Perish" doctrine.
Jesus was a god (lowercase "G"), but he was not the God (uppercase "G"). There is an enormous difference here.Quote:
Originally posted by jesus4u
JW say Jesus was a god. The original translations which are backed up and proven say Jesus was God.
Jesus was God's son. Jesus's father (God) is the one who created everything and ruled over the Israelites and all that.
You can say Jesus was a god because of all the power he had. Jesus is not the only one in the bible who gets called a god. In Psalms 82:1, those are people being called "gods" (not all translations translate to "gods", but most do). In Exodus 15:11, the bible makes reference to other gods. Just because the bible calls someone a god doesn't mean the bible is saying that they are the God.
Have a look at Matthew 19:4. Jesus says that the scriptures state that God created the first man and woman. Note that Jesus is not saying that he himself did it. He's saying that someone else did it. Any translation of the bible will show that.
Now, jesus4u, about your quote of John 1:1, this is a flaw in your particular translation. I may explain this later. I know you believe your translation to be the translation to end all translations. For now, I'll give a short explanation. How can the Word be with God and still be God at the same time? The second word, "God" should've had a lowercase "G".
I'd rather not, but it looks like I have no choice. Contrary to what jesus4u claims, my translation of the bible is no further away from the original meaning than anybody else's translation.Quote:
Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Wait, you two are going to quibble over syntax and semantics? Are you guys Religious Lawyers? :)
I'm still dramatically upset by the "Love Me or Perish" doctrine.
Regardless of your translation, you are trying to apply rational laws of the physical universe to something that may or may not even exist in any context.Quote:
Originally posted by Tygur
I'd rather not, but it looks like I have no choice. Contrary to what jesus4u claims, my translation of the bible is no further away from the original meaning than anybody else's translation.
In other words, it may be entirely possible for a god to incarnate himself as his own son, and for that god to be his testament and be with his testament. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done.
Does your translation describe a god that coherses love with threats of damnation?
My translation? I prefer to say my interpretation. A translation is just an effort to convert something from one language to another. While they all may say something different, they're all (hopefully) made with the same goal, to preserve as much of the original meaning as possible. It's interpretations that differ in meaning.Quote:
Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Does your translation describe a god that coherses love with threats of damnation?
I believe the bible describes God as someone who does not make threats of eternal damnation. The worst thing that can happen to you after death is you could simply not exist and never exist again. No torment. Just nothing.
Ah, so your god merely bribes people.
He isn't psychopathic, but I don't see any reason to submit to bribes, either.
The verse starts out with "in the beginning". If we're talking about a time after God "incarnates himself as his own son", it wouldn't necessarily be in the beginning.Quote:
Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Regardless of your translation, you are trying to apply rational laws of the physical universe to something that may or may not even exist in any context.
In other words, it may be entirely possible for a god to incarnate himself as his own son, and for that god to be his testament and be with his testament. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done.
John 1:1 is referring to the very beginning, when God first started creating everything. Jesus was the first being. Colossians 1:15 refers to Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation". Other translations say the same thing, in different words.
What do you believe a bribe is? It isn't just any payment. I don't think God "bribes" us.Quote:
Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Ah, so your god merely bribes people.
He isn't psychopathic, but I don't see any reason to submit to bribes, either.
Your god offers an afterlife or eternal life as a reward for loving/worshipping/following him. That is a bribe.
Your god doesn't say, "Follow me because we have to fight evil." Your god says, "Only those who follow me will be rewarded."
I'm sorry, but if I ally with a god it will be because of a common goal or solely on his merits. Any god who has to threaten or bribe me isn't worthy. And if your god exists as you describe, then count me as an atheist.
Well, then I'm your god!:p Follow me, because we must fight evil dandruff. If we win the battle, we're all going to the nudie bar, and eatin ribs. I can't offer eternal happiness, but it should last until the bouncers kick us out. And feel free to partake in the heavenly nectars (beers). Membership does require a standard tithe, but its negotiable.Quote:
Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Your god offers an afterlife or eternal life as a reward for loving/worshipping/following him. That is a bribe.
Your god doesn't say, "Follow me because we have to fight evil." Your god says, "Only those who follow me will be rewarded."
I'm sorry, but if I ally with a god it will be because of a common goal or solely on his merits. Any god who has to threaten or bribe me isn't worthy. And if your god exists as you describe, then count me as an atheist.
:D
Sorry, I don't like beer. And I've been to a nudie bar. I was not terribly impressed. Guess I'm spoiled.
*hunts for a new church*
Actually, He says both.Quote:
Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Your god offers an afterlife or eternal life as a reward for loving/worshipping/following him. That is a bribe.
Your god doesn't say, "Follow me because we have to fight evil." Your god says, "Only those who follow me will be rewarded."
But even if it was as you say, it isn't a bribe. A bribe is when you're paid to do something wrong or alter your judgement in the wrong direction. It's not just any payment, otherwise your employers would be bribing you to work for them.
Can I offer kool-aid and cheese?
:)
Kool-Aid is fine, but not with cheese. Yuck.
Funny that, since he is the reason behind the only evil he has identified. In otherwords, without his interferance, there wouldn't be any evil?Quote:
Originally posted by Tygur
Actually, He says both.
Okay, call it a salary. Point is, if he pays for worship, then the worship isn't genuine. Instead of being his slave race, you can just think of us all as god's *****s. :)Quote:
But even if it was as you say, it isn't a bribe. A bribe is when you're paid to do something wrong or alter your judgement in the wrong direction. It's not just any payment, otherwise your employers would be bribing you to work for them.
I guess that makes the Pope a pimp.
The cause behind evil is Satan. God deserves no more blame for it than the parents of an axe murder. I've gone over this already in other threads.Quote:
Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Funny that, since he is the reason behind the only evil he has identified. In otherwords, without his interferance, there wouldn't be any evil?
wow.....
i must say, it takes quite a bit of courage to come out and tell the word of god.... jesus4u, ajd others who have stepped up to the plate, i congradulate you, and support you.....
God is the way, the truth, and the light!
as for some of the others, the objectors, well, maybe your objections are really linked to a curiosity you have... maybe you should learn more... no, you SHOULD learn more about god... everyone should.....
you people are looking for some answers to some very tough questions... questions that can be debated many ways.... i think we're already doing a good job of testifying our knowledge, and hopefully that will provide you with some more insite....
god has not enslaved his people... he created us in the image of himself...... he has rather given us freedom.... freedom of how we wish to live our lives..... if he had not given us the option between good and evil, we would be enslaved....
god IS a loving god....
honeybee i dont know what you meanQuote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Now that's something!!
Yeah, kovan, where are you dude? Give us an interesting bout between J4u and u.
C'mon, any bets?
.
he is partly right
Quran is the highest authority for muslims
and quran does give authority to the bible (not todays)
as muslims do believe in the bible and turah
but those that were sent down to moses and jesus
not the copies john and others wrote
as j4u stated before..... how many people do you know or have you known that are/were truly happy? i mean TRULY happy..... money cannot buy happiness..... money buys affluenza... i'd hafta admit, im guilty of this myself....
how many things in life do we buy? we buy clothes, cars, computers, nice houses, and what? where does it end!? it doesn't!!! do we ever stop wanting? no! think about it... there's got to be something... some kind of computer part, or whatever that you want right now... everyone... what happened the last time u wanted something like this so bad? you thought once you had it you'd be happy... but here you are, wanting again! for what? do not worry about what you will eat, or what clothes you will wear, or where you will sleep.... look at the birds... they do not worry about the next day, yet god takes care of them... surely you are more important to god than the birds! surely he will take care of you in the same way!
now look at people like mother theresa !!! she was truly happy... with what? she had nothing... yet, she had everything..... she was a servant of god....
those who are rich on earth will be poor in heaven
those who are persecuted on earth will not be in heaven...
those who persecute will be persecuted.......
as humans on earth, it is SOOO hard to grasp the concept of eternal life.... life on earth is very short... VERY.... eternal life with god is just that... eternal... forever! INFINITY.... we tend to relate heaven with the 'heavenly' riches here on earth which we own and worship...... we must understand, that heaven and eternal life is soo much greater than what we would classify heaven on earth as now....
Philippians 4:13 "I can do all things thru Christ which strengthenth me."
John 3:16 "God so loved the that he gave his only begotton Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. "
John 14:6 "Jesus aid to him, "I am the way, the truth and the life, No one comes to the Father but by me."
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Matthew 22:36 "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your mind."
Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
Matthew 28:20 "I am with you always, to the close of the age. "
think about those verses for abit.... think very deeply....
I just love how people that believe in god always think that the rest of us are missing out on something or can't see the obvious. I would argue that we have the same right to dismiss your views based on our own beliefs in science, rock gods, jeebus or superman. I doubt that anyone's opinions on the merits of religion or lack thereof are going to be changed by posts in this forum and so maybe we should all learn not to try to force our preachings on others.
Now crptchachallbbbcaablade... about those nudie bars :p :D
ahh, I see crptchachallbbbcaabladicism is catching on. :DQuote:
Originally posted by beachbum
Now crptchachallbbbcaablade... about those nudie bars :p :D
We'll meet on the Day of Maximum Occupancy at our church(The Panty Shanty)
:)
Do i need to bring anything except dollar notes? Maybe some cigars and tic tacs?