I don't mind writing the help, peet, but I need you to compile it.
If I was to write it in html, could you turn that into a chm file?
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I don't mind writing the help, peet, but I need you to compile it.
If I was to write it in html, could you turn that into a chm file?
I'm on GMT + 1 so u and I are pretty much the same :)Quote:
Originally posted by Jez1
Hello peet, which time zone are you on? I am GMT.
Abu is in the US and Harini is in India, so we might have some time trouble...
sure thing Jez1, that will be just fine :)Quote:
Originally posted by Jez1
I don't mind writing the help, peet, but I need you to compile it.
If I was to write it in html, could you turn that into a chm file?
My apologies to Jez, for I was not able to talk to him when he was on MSN this afternoon. I was at work and at that moment I was doing some very important design. My boss was with me. This might happen some time. And this is my advance apology to all of you, should this happen again.
I know Jez must have felt bad. :(
I am really sorry.
As you know, I am at about GMT-8 I think, so by the time it is morning for me, it is already afternoon for you. We can set up a conference on MSN in the first hour of my Job, thats 9:00 to 10:00am of my time. If it is possible for you people, usually I am free during that hour. I will be available at 10:00 to 12:00pm of my time as well, but I understand that for you peet and Jez, it won't be much convenient.
For Harini being online for long time might be a problem.
Thats it, peet you know our MSN IDs, if you can be there, we'll talk then.
Thanks for the Icons Jez.
I think transparent Icons are best.
Could you make the arrows something similar to the windows explorer back and forward buttons?
On the Edit Record Icon, could you put a Pen or Pencil pointing towards the Record?
I think they will look better that way...
MSN up and running in a couple of hours from now :)Quote:
Originally posted by Abu haider
My apologies to Jez, for I was not able to talk to him when he was on MSN this afternoon. I was at work and at that moment I was doing some very important design. My boss was with me. This might happen some time. And this is my advance apology to all of you, should this happen again.
I know Jez must have felt bad. :(
I am really sorry.
As you know, I am at about GMT-8 I think, so by the time it is morning for me, it is already afternoon for you. We can set up a conference on MSN in the first hour of my Job, thats 9:00 to 10:00am of my time. If it is possible for you people, usually I am free during that hour. I will be available at 10:00 to 12:00pm of my time as well, but I understand that for you peet and Jez, it won't be much convenient.
For Harini being online for long time might be a problem.
Thats it, peet you know our MSN IDs, if you can be there, we'll talk then.
see u there ;)
i would be interested in USING this program
put me in for beta testing
[email protected] (MSN messanger)
Welcome Kovan, spare some time to offer your suggestions too.
I am off the shoe design; at least for the day (would you believe I get to do that? Argh).
Let’s have a serious talk now.
It is about the Data Model. As you all know, initially, the idea was to have a work log basically. Since the works are likely to be related to some project, projects came into the scene. I thought we would keep minimal information about a project, just as much as is necessary. However, Harini has designed a Data Model that keeps elaborate information about the projects too.
There is nothing wrong if we keep all relevant information about projects. However, the project extends from Work Log to a Project Management System in that case. Better.
This is a good example of how plans expand. And it is very important therefore, to define the scope of the project, so that it doesn't go out of control. Now let me show how things grow.
- Should we have a system that would manage multiple Version of a project?
- Should the Project Modules Table also store file(s) associated with the module? .frm and .frx files for a Form Module, for example
- If so, should we compress the files before we store? to Save space?
- Should we have a Bug Tracking System for the Projects?
- To what level of Analysis we will provide in the System in that case?
As you see, we can get lost pretty soon. These features look really important isn't it? Let me know what you people think.
I am ready to spare as much time as I can afford. Hope you will be with me till the end.
Did you think about the name of the project by the way? Any better suggestion than TraceWorks? Please?
Let me say a few things about Harini’s Design. Primary Keys should be Numeric, for they are better faster and efficient. They will be AutoIncrement Field in most cases.
The ‘Total’ fields could be omitted. It is fairly simple to calculate the fields dynamically, and this will also save us from updating the fields whenever an entry is made or deleted in the corresponding tables.
It is enough for the Progress Log table to have a reference to the Project Module, which is linked to the Project. We can retrieve the Information at the Project Level using Join. Or should we keep the reference to the Project as well?
I insist that we change the *Code Fields to *ID, for they will be actually identity. But this is a minor issue.
We would also have a Reports Table with a structure similar to this:
VB Code:
Now Peet would you solve how to manage multiple versions of a project? With a ProjectVersions Table may be?
If we were to store the files as well, how would we go about that?
Minor issues...
- Project Title - Unique
- All *Code (*ID) References Corresponding Tables
Do we need those *Completed boolean fields? The status of the Project, Modules, Work Progress Log etc... should have values like, OnHold, YetToStart, InProcess, Completed etc...
When a project is complete, the status is set to 'Completed' automatically...
The Members Table should have UserID(Unique) and Password (Encrypted) to add Application level security to the application.
It should also have a supervisorID I suppose. To designate a supervisor of the Member. This is a classic example of self referencing. The SupervisorID will reference the Supervisor's MemberID in the same table.
At this level, I think Harini may start implementing these features in her design.
I look forward to peet, for a solution of managing multiple versions of a project, and to Harini for the improved version of the DataModel.
Mean while Jez is working on the icons...
Glad you like my DB Design.:) And as I have mentioned in the Doc itself, making primary keys a text field is just my preference, as I think it gives a bit more flexibility. You can easily extract the number part, convert it into numeric values and perform calculations like generating auto numbers. (I have been doing this in my projects.) But with a numeric field you are limited
just to numbers and cannot have a charecter suffix or anything like that. As for the calculated fields, yes it need not be a field of course, just put it in to show the idea.
I will start implementing your suggestions and send you a revised version, may be tomorrow.
suggestion:
keep all boolean fields as integers
and use 0 and 1 for true and false
this will make sure the program can be ported to sql server and other db's
someon send me the data model?
what modeling system are you guys using?
UML or something older?
sql server supports boolean fields, isn't it? I don't know about oracle. The data model is posted earlier (first version) by Harini. We don't have any modeling tool still, if you know of any free (or affordable) modeling tool, plz let us know. Currently, Harini used Tables in Word Document for the Table Structure.Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
suggestion:
keep all boolean fields as integers
and use 0 and 1 for true and false
this will make sure the program can be ported to sql server and other db's
someon send me the data model?
what modeling system are you guys using?
UML or something older?
Don't worry about not being able to talk abu, I understand about your boss, we wouldn't want u getting fired would we?
OK, so:
Transparent backgrounds on the icons,
Make them look nice,
Any ideas I'd like to hear them.
Once you've got the basic program together, send me a copy and I'll start work on the help files.
How close are we to putting something together now?
Don't worry about not being able to talk abu, I understand about your boss, we wouldn't want u getting fired would we?
OK, so:
Transparent backgrounds on the icons,
Make them look nice,
Any ideas I'd like to hear them.
Once you've got the basic program together, send me a copy and I'll start work on the help files.
How close are we to putting something together now?
Also, I think we should aim low for version 1, then build it up later.
Two messages almost the same there. Whoopsie.....
Please create two versions of each Icon, one for the the normal, and other for the active (mouse over) state.
hi all.
i am really happy finding you people doing this project. i think it'll surely be a useful one. i appretiate you all. :)
I am sending a revised version of the Data Model. If I have left out any of your suggestions, or if you want any changes let me know.
As Abu pointed out, it will be a problem for me to remain online for long. But I will keep checking this thread as frequently as possible.
I have MSN messenger and I have in id at MSN.com. Created it when we installed MSN Explorer.
Would this MSN ID do, or do I have to create a Hotmail ID? Just downloaded MSN messenger, so don't know. Haven't tried it yet.
Hey why has there been no activity in this thread today? are you all chatting:)
We are not chatting.
We have this time zone problem. And I don't know why peet still didn't install MSN messenger. He said he would. But I can see him busy in replying the General Threads.
Jez comes later.
Thanks for the new model Harini. I will check it as soon as I can.
Your MSN ID should do for MSN Messenger. It is very simple. Install, then it will ask for your ID, give it your ID, and add us to your list.
Or give us your ID, we will add you to our list.
I hope peet didn't leave the project....
:eek:
:o
[email protected]
ok.. I'm there... :)
:) Welcome back peet.
Come online on MSN anytime convenient for you. Did you check the new design?
My Dad has come up with a possible name:
DigiSec
Or
DigitalSecretary
What do you think?
hi all.
i saw Harini's database design. really good one. Haider's suggestions already eliminated most of its main probs. however, i thought to add some of mine ideas with yours. here's my suggestions (i donno whether it will be useful for you or not. however waiting forward to hear from you people):
* instead of keeping extra field PCoordinator in the Projects table, you can use a designation field in the ProjectsMembers table that will indicate whether the Member is Coordinator or anything else.
* in the same way PMCoordinator of ProjectModules table can be removed by adding 'Designation' field in the ModuleMember table.
* I suggest one more extra field for Budget in the Projects and Modules tables.
* Haider told that in progress log table, we can use references to only module ID, not the project ID. But what if the project member (not the module member) enters his/her log? I think it's better to have both references fields. we can hide the complexity from the user while designing the front end for it.
I've modified Harini's first design (b4 getting the second one) somewhat and my reviewed design is attached here. i'd be glad if it helps you anyway.
by the by, what about planning all the functionalities that the project will have?
I too like the name DigiSec (the digital secretary for project develoopment)
what others say?:confused:
Here are the updated icons, including MouseOver versions, which are suffixed with "h".
Jez
Let me introduce Pallab to all of you.
He leads a Test Team in India. Earlier, he was the one who tested all my components before release.
He is also in Development, and not bad in analysis. Check out his DataModel. He has points.
Will discuss about the Data Model later. And I think we should start listing out the features of the first version.
I was looking for an easy illustration program for drawing, UML diagrams and Flow Charts. Which we could exchange easily.
ProxyDesigner, available from www.proxysource.com, does just that. If all of us have it installed, we could easily create and interchange designs.
It is a freeware.
I'm getting it now Abu,Quote:
Originally posted by Abu haider
I was looking for an easy illustration program for drawing, UML diagrams and Flow Charts. Which we could exchange easily.
ProxyDesigner, available from www.proxysource.com, does just that. If all of us have it installed, we could easily create and interchange designs.
It is a freeware.
btw the link contained a , at the end... made my browser complain.. noticed it finally though :)
DigiSec is a good name short and smashing ... (can one say so in english?)Quote:
Originally posted by Jez1
My Dad has come up with a possible name:
DigiSec
Or
DigitalSecretary
What do you think?
I wote for DigiSec
good one Jez :)
What about :) managing multiple versions of a project peet? When shall we hear from you?
I think you saw that Harini has already proposed something. What do you say......
I agree that sounds like VSS, but anyways... I have seen Jez's opinion on making the first version without any additional features, and yours.
I don't think at this point we should go for storing the project files as well, but managing multiple version may be considered. This is because incorporating this in a future version might require a major remodelling of the application and DataModel.
I thought this because of the following reasons:
- Two different versions of a project could be considered as two different projects, and in that case, we have nothing to do.
- However, a future version builds on the previous version of a project. So we could present the option of creating from an existing project while building a new one.
- But in that case we loose the history since the new project won't have any relation with the older one
I thought we would design the DataModel carefully so that, the users will be able to port their data to the newer versions.
But that doesn't mean that we must incorporate all these features in the first version.
Why don't you list down the features you think should the first version incorporate?
hmmm sorry about this.. the above post is a replay to a post I deleted.... my bad :(
implemented pallab's suggestions
As a developer, I will feel more comfy with tradtional VB forms :) style, but as a user, I guess I would find IExplorer style more attractive.:D
Thanks for the revised version of the Data Model, Harini.
And also thanks to pallab for his suggestions. We can't make two Designs in Parallel. That would be a waste of effort.
From now on, Harini would be responsible for implementing suggested features on the Data Model. We will only suggest.
I suggested the following user interface styles for the project:
- Windows Explorer
- HTML Compiler like
- VB IDE Like
- Traditional Form based
I vote for something like the VB IDE, second choice being the HTML compiler like interface. However, a Form based interface would be the most simple to implement, as Harini said.
Peet agreed to take care of the general interface.
I will take care of the Analysis & Reporting, both user interface and Report Designing.
Harini is taking care of the Database Design & Implementation.
Jez will do Icons, write help. He said he might do some coding & Interface too.
So far the name is DigiSec.
Although each of us is going to do a specific job, we will discuss and suggest about everything of the project.
I am leaving pallab out of the project, I know he has his final exams in the forthcoming month.
I look forward to you all for your opinion on the User Interface.
And mean while, we can talk about the Data model...
Harini already suggested about two ways of implementing the Version Management, and already implemented one in the design.
To me, it would be more an Analysis issue. We may need to analysis and report on a project basis, that will include all versions of it. Although we can try to find out projects with the same title to group all versions together, that doesn't look like the right way. As I have already mentioned, another issue is that a future version usually starts from the previous one, and often many of the modules of the first version may be used as it is in the next version. Kind of confusing. Also keep in mind that different version of the same project may have different title (Visual Studio 98 is actually Visual Studio Version 6)
The reason why I am trying to emphasize on the the project model is:
[list=1][*]It is the root of the Data Model[*]Any change in this in the future may require major remodelling[*]Porting old versions Data to a New Version might be a big issue, and even impossible without a porting wizard[*]It will be easy to add functionalities to the project hierarchy if the Root is designed properly[/list=1]
Trust me, we will save a lot of trouble if the Data model is designed properly.
My primary suggestion is that we have a Projects Table and a ProjectVersions Table. Some thing similar to this:
Table Projects
- PID Auto Inc
- PTitle
- PDescription
End Table
Every other information is kept at the Version level.
Table ProjectVersions
- VersionID
- PID
- VersionTitle
- VersionStartDate
- VersionEstEndDate
- VersionEstBudget
- VersionEstEndDate
- VersionStatus
- VersionEndDate
- And others....
(I know I am not consistent in Field Naming... follow whichever way you like)
Now down the hierarchy, everything else will refer to the version, we don't need a direct reference to the project.
Here is one more small, but important issue...
You know often Projects need to be grouped together. Like an Enterprise solution might have the ClientApplication project, DataAccess Server COM Project, a Web Interface Project etc.
We should have a way of grouping projects together. This is not very complecated though. We can modify the Projects Table to refer to a Parent project, and to know that a project contains child projects, we may have a ProjectGroup Boolean Field. As Follows...
Table Projects
- PID Auto Inc
- PTile Text
- PDescription Memo
- ParentID Long Refers to the same table's PID Field
- ProjectGroup Boolean
End Table
The ProjectGroup Boolean field could be avoided, but that will require us to search for child projects for every project information we retrieve. Field ParentID may instead refer to a ProjectVersion Table, which will allow us to maintain multiple versions of a project group, even better.
The members table should store information that are normally kept for a team member employee, like the official designation etc, and should also have fields that would allow storing information that will be necessary when a team is like ours, geographically seperated.
While we complete the DataModel, we should keep in mind the following features that will be added in a future version of the project:
- The features list for every versions of a project
- Storing Project Module Files
- A way of sharing modules between different versions, or projects.
- Bug Tracking System
- Distributable Package Storing Feature
- A Web Interface to the Application
Combined all these, it should be a complete project management system
It will have features that are also available in the Visual Source Safe, for that is also a source control system, but will beat VSS in many aspects.
i know that i can't take part in this project as a regular member (what a luck i have......). however, i like to be with you atleast as a visitor. hope that sometimes i may give some suggestions that may be useful.
harini, i saw the ver2.1 of ur design. thnx for implementing my suggestions. u've made the design even better. (but wondering why the 'pcoordinator' and 'pmcoordinator' fields still there in 'projects' and 'projectsmodule' table)
to solve the version problem, i think what emon suggested is very important and useful.
in the member field, i suggest the country field be used to indicate the geographical station of the member.
Sorry to abuhaider for cutting you off like that - someone really needed to use the phone and I haven't had a chance to contact u until now.
I will try to find a suitable domain name,
What do people think of the latest icons?