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LMAO!!!!Quote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Hey maybe we should discuss Napster and mp3 sharing too. Oh and how about the Middle East? Hmm what else.... Oh yeah lets discuss how women are treated in Islamic cultures too.
Please, let's not start this god-awful debate again. For all of you who have no idea what we're talking about, go here at your own risk. The thread from hell It's pretty long. We got carried away.
well no i downloaded vb6 ent from a warez site but in if u go to honk kong like i do sometimes u can get anything for about £3 (dont ask me about us dollars) including win2k, office 2k premium, ms train sim virtually anything
Why, afraid you'll lose?:DQuote:
Please, let's not start this god-awful debate again
There is no losing or winning, it's an infinite loop ofarguing and peril, a swirling black abyss of...well, you get the idea.:D
Seriously, though, I took the time to respond to your post....
Oh, you want a response? Well, sorry mate, no soup for you.:D I'd rather not have a huge long debate right now. Some other time, I'm sure...:) ;) :D :cool:
:mad:
You owe me, pal.
Hehe, start up a thread with an interesting topic and we'll see what happens.;)
Kaverin, What I meant was that if someone steals a car for anywhere the company is losing money. If someone goes into say staples and steals a copy of a program the company is losing money. If someone who wouldn't have paid for the program making a copy of a friends cd and using that The company does not lose money they never would have had it. The reason the first two lose money is because they are losing actual product cd's or cars and not in the thrid instance because they are not losing anything physical and the person would never have paid for it anyway. Similarily if someone who would have paid for say Visual Studio Enterprise Edition or something like that warez'd it and didn't pay the company is still losing money if I mistyped it earlier sorry for the confusion.
Invitro, If I were Bill Gates I wouldn't care about a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars because that person is raising support for my product. What I was refering to was someone making copies of something I made and charging their friends 5 bucks a pop for something I sell for 50. Or like someone making a coppies of quake3 with slight modifications so It looked a little origional and saying they made it then selling it or even giving it away.
I'm all for freedom of information. I'm against current copyright laws. I wouldn't use it for anything other than to make people think twice before making an "Illegal" copy of a program I wrote. I doubt with the current state of the american legal system I'd ever bother to sue anyone for doing something like that. Maybe if I agreed with the laws or they were changed. I'm willing to debate this but I don't bother to check my email every day.
___________________________________________________
My new software said: "Install Win95 or better ..."
So I installed Linux.
You can't say that the person "never would have had it." They might not have bought it that week, but the week after that? What about in a year's time?Quote:
If someone who wouldn't have paid for the program making a copy of a friends cd and using that The company does not lose money they never would have had it.
No, and Microsoft isn't going after kids who burn Office for their friends. Microsoft is going after people who pirate five thousand copies of Office for their company, and that is blatant abuse.Quote:
If I were Bill Gates I wouldn't care about a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars because that person is raising support for my product.
Specifically, which laws?Quote:
I'm all for freedom of information. I'm against current copyright laws
But you're against copyrights.Quote:
I wouldn't use it for anything other than to make people think twice before making an "Illegal" copy of a program I wrote.
aknisely,
Why don't you think this topic should include mp3 and file sharing as well it's the same issue jsut different *******s. Architects don't base their entire livelyhoods on CAD programs many still do things with paper and pencils many more still do the final drafts by hand and autodes made a program back in the dos days that sold for under 50 dollars called autosketch it was a predecessor of autocad just as good only 2d and just as in demand.
No, actually they aren't you just have to look for a good one It's called research something you probably havent done since college. You might fire someone who wasted half a million but if you were his boss you'd probably never even know about it and most people that high up on the food chain only know big names anyway. If the ticket price is unfair to a baseball game I'd watch it on TV for free. If I sneak into a movie theater to see a movie I wouldn't have paid for they are not losing any money because either I'm gonna not pay and see it or I'm not gonna pay and not see it. Duh they don't get money either way that's the point.Quote:
What about functionality? It might be easier to draw a picture of your house, what about a large office complex or a manufacturing plant? Freeware CAD applications are like toy trucks compared to AutoCAD.
The point is he wouldn't have paid for it regardless of whether or not he used it. My food may not rely on my programs but my clothes do and I don't think differently. It's about the free exchange of knowledge remember the reason the internet was released to the public. It can't be stopped and it can't but put back in the bottle. None of you can honestly say that you have never used a program you didn't obtain legally you never download a rom of a game you never used a friends serial number or cd to try a game or other program before putting money into it yourself. Even other "professional" programmers agree with this statement "Pirating a piece of software that you would otherwise buy is wrong, stealing a car is wrong, pirating something you could never afford is not bad" I can't remember where I saw it but it's paraphrasing of something a "progessional programmer siad.Quote:
He did take something. He, who might sometime in the future purchased that software, just cost a software company hundreds or thousands of dollars. Material costs are irrelevant.
As for you I sense several things
a: You want to be a real programmer.
b: You have a job for a company where one of your tasks it to write/maintain code.
c: You are not a Professional programmer ie. You have to do things other than write code to pay your bills.
d: You have never known poverty.
e: You don't get along with your parents.
If I'm worng then I'm actually sorry and if you tell me at least somewhat politely I'll apologize. but I'm guessing I'm not that far off.
edit:
I do agree with a handfull of what you said stealing software no matter why isn't right but sometimes it's not wrong either. I really am sorry if my guesses are wrong and I will apologize if I am.
___________________________________________
May all the liar's fingers fall off.
It's the same issue, but a few of the laws are different. For example, fair use pertaining to music allows you to share copies of music with friends and family. This is not so for software. Just little things like that tend to deviate the two catagories.Quote:
Why don't you think this topic should include mp3 and file sharing as well it's the same issue jsut different *******s.
You're getting a bit mean here; I haven't yet been to college.Quote:
It's called research something you probably havent done since college.
Watching it on TV isn't wrong; you'd be watching advertisements at the same time, which pay for the television viewing.Quote:
If the ticket price is unfair to a baseball game I'd watch it on TV for free.
They don't lose any money; they don't gain any money either.Quote:
Duh they don't get money either way that's the point.
Right, and my point is that his point is a paradox. You might not have been interested in buying the product when you download it, but you might in two weeks' time. It's impossible to determine whether or not you would otherwise have bought the product; furthermore, it's quite foolish to assume that your tastes and demand for the product will be identical all the time.Quote:
The point is he wouldn't have paid for it regardless of whether or not he used it.
Free exchange of knowledge as you describe would diminish a company's ability to make software. Software isn't just made by long-haired kids in basements or college students.Quote:
It's about the free exchange of knowledge remember the reason the internet was released to the public.
Of course not, the Internet has too many legitimate purposes. You can't ban cars because people drive drunk; you can, however, make drunk driving illegal.Quote:
It can't be stopped and it can't but put back in the bottle.
I can. But I do know that most people can't. The best you can do is honestly put an effort into obeying the law, even if it's an inconvenience.Quote:
None of you can honestly say that you have never used a program you didn't obtain legally you never download a rom of a game you never used a friends serial number or cd to try a game or other program before putting money into it yourself.
I'll take B, C, and D. As for the rest:Quote:
a: You want to be a real programmer.
b: You have a job for a company where one of your tasks it to write/maintain code.
c: You are not a Professional programmer ie. You have to do things other than write code to pay your bills.
d: You have never known poverty.
e: You don't get along with your parents.
a: I want to be a tax lawyer, not a programmer;
c: Sorta, I really don't need to pay a lot of bills;
e: I get along fine with my parents. I do well in school, don't do drugs, and buy them things on their birthdays.
Maybe but it's not likely. Today I might want to use AutoCAD for something-or-other and just copy it. It's the likelihood of my being willing to buy it in two weeks time if I don't get it now is small to the point of being negligible. Perhaps next year I'll start using it commercially and be able to justify investing in it, in which case it will be bought. Perhaps I'll never really use enough to justify the cost. Using it in the meantime has the potential to tempt me not to buy it when I can justify the cost, but using the product without paying is not unreasonable until the point is reached where I would buy it if I didn't already have it.Quote:
You might not have been interested in buying the product when you download it, but you might in two weeks' time
That's a very subjective thing to say. Maybe that's what you would consider to be 'the best' thing to do, but other people's values may differ slightly. Their values are just as relevant and just as 'correct' as yours, although they may not be as popular and as such aren't recognised as correct by the law.Quote:
The best you can do is honestly put an effort into obeying the law, even if it's an inconvenience.
I actually don't really pirate any software that isn't made by MicroSh*tF***ers. I can't understand why anyone would actually pay for their crap. I only use it beacuse most people do and I don't have the time nor the energy to change their minds.
Changing people's minds is the fun part and akinsely sorry i was wrong but damn close.
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. It just means of whoever made the law either didn't want people to do it or they didn't know of a situation where the law could be used differently or the illegal action could be necessary and/or propper.
no but most of it is Windows was written by two college dropouts in a basement. Linux was written in a dorm I think (close enough dank and smelly) by a short haired kid. I myself have short hair. As do most of the programmers I know personaly. I don't think it's necessary to have long hair but the basement atmosphere does seem kinda helpful.Quote:
Free exchange of knowledge as you describe would diminish a company's ability to make software. Software isn't just made by long-haired kids in basements or college students.
I know there were other great programs written in a basement or similar Napster was mostly on a laptop in a car I think.
So does that mean it's not wrong to break the law? Most people (I think) live by the belief that breaking the law is bad. It's common sense (I think so, anyway).Quote:
Originally posted by G2k_Headhunter
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong.
My Dear Friend Harry,
This is where it becomes a problem. You can't use a car from a dealership that you think is going to remain unused for as long as you want, and justify it by saying you're trying it out. Trying it out is fine, but only if the vendor wants you to try it out.Quote:
Perhaps next year I'll start using it commercially and be able to justify investing in it, in which case it will be bought.
The law in a democratic society was elected by the people who live there. If everyone were granted the privilage to violate the law because it conflicts with their values, then the judiciary wouldn't work and the result would be anarchy.Quote:
Their values are just as relevant and just as 'correct' as yours, although they may not be as popular and as such aren't recognised as correct by the law.
My Kindest Relation Gouda,
If you think Microsoft makes an inferior product, why are you stealing it in the first place? That's like saying, "Yeah, I stole a Lionel Richie CD from the HMV."Quote:
I can't understand why anyone would actually pay for their crap.
Honest Headhunter,
Title 17, like all parts of the USC, was enacted by the People of the United States of America.Quote:
It just means of whoever made the law either didn't want people to do it or they didn't know of a situation where the law could be used differently or the illegal action could be necessary and/or propper.
Windows is developed by hundreds of people in a Redmond, WA office complex.Quote:
o but most of it is Windows was written by two college dropouts in a basement
Aggravating Aknisely ;)
I use MicroSh*tF***er's software because it's mainstream...more help and other resources is available for their crap. And I'm far too lazy to try and bring down the wealthiest coporation in America, so I'll just continue using their crap until someone else does. What can I say, I'm a lazy pothead...:D not really...:D
So you only use something that you hate because other people use it and you can't "bring down" a (mostly) legitimate company?
Oh not the car thing again. Using a car devalues it and stops others from using it. The analogy isn't valid.Quote:
This is where it becomes a problem. You can't use a car from a dealership that you think is going to remain unused for as long as you want, and justify it by saying you're trying it out. Trying it out is fine, but only if the vendor wants you to try it out.
If you are trying to argue that the law is necessary you're wasting your time trying to tell me that - I already agree. Please try and understand that I am not - NOT - talking about 'granting' people the privilege og violating the law when it conflicts with their values. Legal and illegal are not the main issue, people do follow what they want (what they think is right) unless something (ie the law in this case) stops them. That's a simple fact of life. Trying to say that the law stops everyone from doing anything the majority doesn't want them to do is just kidding yourself. It tries, but it doesn't 100% succeed.Quote:
The law in a democratic society was elected by the people who live there. If everyone were granted the privilage to violate the law because it conflicts with their values, then the judiciary wouldn't work and the result would be anarchy.
In light of this fact, I don't propose any changes in the law, as I must have said at least five times by now. What the law says on this issue is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is whether it's wrong to copy things in all circumstances. To understand what I'm talking about you're going to have to look past the 'it's illegal so it must be wrong' idea.
not sure if this has been mentioned above because I dont have time to read through it all, but
I'd suggest just to put some ads on there (if it is an internet app).
Most people don't mind it. I, for one, would be content at letting ads sit there if it is a good program. The more annoying you get with popups like "be sure to register", etc etc, the more you will drive people to get cracks/patches/warez versions. Trust me on that one ;)
There are other options if you are not programming an internet app. You just have to be creative ;)
It is for our purposes. Using a car for a few hours, washing it, then setting the odometer back doesn't devalue the car.Quote:
Oh not the car thing again. Using a car devalues it and stops others from using it. The analogy isn't valid.
I think that's exactly what you're saying. That people should, or already do, violate the law when it conflicts with their values, or think it is unreasonable.Quote:
Please try and understand that I am not - NOT - talking about 'granting' people the privilege og violating the law when it conflicts with their values.
People should obey the law even when it is impossible to enforce.Quote:
Legal and illegal are not the main issue, people do follow what they want (what they think is right) unless something (ie the law in this case) stops them.
I'm not asking you to cite changes, I'm asking the other guy to, since he obviously disagrees with copyright law.Quote:
In light of this fact, I don't propose any changes in the law, as I must have said at least five times by now.
The law doesn't necessarily deal with "right" and "wrong" in all cases. The law, in this case, is to protect the prosperity, appreciation, and further development of intellectual property. It doesn't have to be "right" in order to be considered enforceable.Quote:
To understand what I'm talking about you're going to have to look past the 'it's illegal so it must be wrong' idea.
(pulls out banjo)Quote:
Originally posted by aknisely
It is for our purposes. Using a car for a few hours, washing it, then setting the odometer back doesn't devalue the car.
I think that's exactly what you're saying. That people should, or already do, violate the law when it conflicts with their values, or think it is unreasonable.
People should obey the law even when it is impossible to enforce.
I'm not asking you to cite changes, I'm asking the other guy to, since he obviously disagrees with copyright law.
The law doesn't necessarily deal with "right" and "wrong" in all cases. The law, in this case, is to protect the prosperity, appreciation, and further development of intellectual property. It doesn't have to be "right" in order to be considered enforceable.
Once I met a guy named AKNisely
He liked to pay for software that is pricey
He hates Linux, and he hates MP3
I hope his habits don't grow on me!
He thinks kovan is a pain in the ass
I say "Kovan's cool, I think I'll pass"
He doesn't like jokes and he doesn't like blade
I..(thinks) Wonder if he uses RAID!!!! :D :D
Thank you, thank you, thank you very much...now AK can quote each line from my song and write a 1 paragraph argument on it ;) ;)
Bloody hell....Quote:
(pulls out banjo)
It's only pricey because you're cheap.Quote:
He liked to pay for software that is pricey
I haven't said anything of the sort. I love MP3's and Linux is... moderately... acceptable.Quote:
He hates Linux, and he hates MP3
You're just an impressionable kid.Quote:
I hope his habits don't grow on me!
Yep.Quote:
He thinks kovan is a pain in the ass
Feable attempts at rhyming.Quote:
I say "Kovan's cool, I think I'll pass"
Who? Oh that guy. Yeah, he's okay.Quote:
He doesn't like jokes and he doesn't like blade
Only on the server; but hardware on the server really doesn't count for you, does it?Quote:
I..(thinks) Wonder if he uses RAID!!!!
Suffer the consequences of my banjoQuote:
Bloody hell....
I 0wn j00 and you are a man-ho!
I'm 15 so I can't find much workQuote:
It's only pricey because you're cheap.
$600 is a lot of money,and Office XP is a real perk..
Oh so you love MP3sQuote:
I haven't said anything of the sort. I love MP3's and Linux is... moderately... acceptable.
Did you rip them all from CDs?
Your habits ain't growing on me...Quote:
You're just an impressionable kid.
I want to get what I can get for free
Well I think he's funny. and his car 0wnzQuote:
Yep.
So I don't care to hear your moans
Are you rhyming? I don't think soQuote:
Feable attempts at rhyming.
Take a spelling test (feeble, not feable) and hire a ho! :D :D
Oh, i thought you said you didn't like him. he rulesQuote:
Who? Oh that guy. Yeah, he's okay.
But when they all see me, everyone drools!
Just because (a p3 xeon 700) works on a server bestQuote:
Only on the server; but hardware on the server really doesn't count for you, does it? [/B]
Doesn't mean it can excell at the rest
(what's the server for?)
Here's my opinion:
Most of the stuff I have is either shareware or cracked. When I think the people that made the program desirve (sp?) it, and if the price is reasonable (my limit is about 50 dollars) - I will gladly buy it. I'd do it more often if I had enough money, but since I'm 15 and the only money I have is the money my parents give me for lunch... :D
Yes.Quote:
Did you rip them all from CDs?
Anything with a PIII Xeon will beat Athlon hands down.Quote:
Just because (a p3 xeon 700) works on a server best
Doesn't mean it can excell at the rest
File and printer sharing and directory services.Quote:
(what's the server for?)
Oh get real! Maybe for servers, but SETI crunching, Photoshop, games, you name it, the athlon beats it.Quote:
Originally posted by aknisely
Anything with a PIII Xeon will beat Athlon hands down.
And besides, Xeons are $1000 anyway..
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....hreadid=211900
DOESN"T THIS EXPLAIN IT???????? These guys are smarter than u about hardware and i am probably also
http://www.quitesufficient.com/stopcrack.jpg
Yeah, I guess you're right, seeing as how you've done all sorts of extensive testing and have come to a data-oriented conclusion. By the way, using Photoshop with a Xeon is pushing it, though not inconcievable. Games, absolutely not; what a waste of money.Quote:
Oh get real! Maybe for servers, but SETI crunching, Photoshop, games, you name it, the athlon beats it.
Not that you'd pay for it anyway.Quote:
And besides, Xeons are $1000 anyway.
You know what I hate, people who pretend they know **** but they don't. Maybe a similarly clocked Xeon would beat at these tasks..but with a 100% speed gap, with certain situations, a Xeon wouldn't cut it agains the Athlon.
Some times you just gotta laugh and walk away.
*laughs*
And you might know what I mean by "walk away".:rolleyes:
They (and you) apparently have little knowledge or experience of high performance systems. Nothing's wrong with that, you just haven't worked with that kind of thing before. This isn't a matter of "AMD vs. Intel," so stop trying to defend The Little Guy everytime. When you're dealing with IT, you do what's best for the company with a reasonable budget, and anyone you've talked to will tell you that an Athlon simply isn't powerful enough for a Xeon. As I said before, like taking a sumo wrestler and putting him against a 9-year-old girl.Quote:
DOESN"T THIS EXPLAIN IT???????? These guys are smarter than u about hardware and i am probably also
On a side note, posting pictures of Hitler isn't a very good way to get your point across.
Me too. What experience did you say you had with the Xeon?Quote:
You know what I hate, people who pretend they know **** but they don't
Different systems are designed for different tasks...in the desktop segment, yes, the Athlon IS the end-all.Quote:
Originally posted by aknisely
[B]They (and you) apparently have little knowledge or experience of high performance systems.
Eh, wake up dude, Athlon is superior to the Pentium 4, even when the p4 is clocked higher.Quote:
Nothing's wrong with that, you just haven't worked with that kind of thing before. This isn't a matter of "AMD vs. Intel," so stop trying to defend The Little Guy everytime.
And WHO Said we were talking about the IT industry?Quote:
When you're dealing with IT, you do what's best for the company with a reasonable budget, and anyone you've talked to will tell you that an Athlon simply isn't powerful enough for a Xeon. As I said before, like taking a sumo wrestler and putting him against a 9-year-old girl.
I think you have no sense of humor.Quote:
On a side note, posting pictures of Hitler isn't a very good way to get your point across.
I don't need to have hands on experience, I've heard from many many people who HAVE had hands on experience with the Xeon. And I can tell you this right now, the Xeon is without a doubt good in the server environment, but the desktop segment is quite another story.Quote:
Me too. What experience did you say you had with the Xeon?
the world is made up of a helluva lot more than IT.
tell you what, let's stop trampling on this topic. Let's see how you can handle the guys at [h]ardforum ( www.hardforum.com ). I'm sure they'll have quite a bit of fun with your views.
Sign up, I'll be waiting.
No it isn't, stop making things up. Xeon wins the desktop as well; you don't see it that often because its far too expensive. It's like getting the sumo wrestler to beat up the 9-year-old girl after she took a piece of your candy.Quote:
Different systems are designed for different tasks...in the desktop segment, yes, the Athlon IS the end-all.
The Pentium III Xeon is superior to the Pentium IV.Quote:
Eh, wake up dude, Athlon is superior to the Pentium 4, even when the p4 is clocked higher.
That's likely the only place where you would find Xeons. That, and the industrial industry.Quote:
And WHO Said we were talking about the IT industry?
It isn't funny.Quote:
I think you have no sense of humor.
Therein lies your problem. You read what others write, you listen to what others say; that only carries you so far.Quote:
I don't need to have hands on experience
It's the same processor, the same instructions. The reason you don't find it on desktops (that 99% of people buy, anway) is because an Athlon or a Pentium IV will get the job done without spending an extra $800 when you're likely not going to see a performance difference.Quote:
And I can tell you this right now, the Xeon is without a doubt good in the server environment, but the desktop segment is quite another story.
yes, considering we had a 1.4ghz Xeon vs a 1.4 Athlon, the Xeon would send the Athlon flying. but some tasks rely highly on CPU clock speed, so a 32-bit chip running at half the speed of another 32 bit chip..i noted 32 bit chip because a 700 Itanium or a 700 G4, both 64 bit chips, would kick the p3 xeon 700 and the Athlon 1.4.Quote:
Originally posted by aknisely
No it isn't, stop making things up. Xeon wins the desktop as well; you don't see it that often because its far too expensive. It's like getting the sumo wrestler to beat up the 9-year-old girl after she took a piece of your candy.
Agreed.Quote:
The Pentium III Xeon is superior to the Pentium IV.
Right, but for a desktop system, the priorities are not how many users it can support, etc...it is how fast it can do Photoshop, play games, encode mp3s, render video, etc. these tasks require CPU speed (i know sub 1ghz macs beat athlons at photoshop, but they are 64 bit chips) and therefore the cache can only go so far...example, if you have a 200mhz pentium with a 16mb cache, it's still a 200mhz pentium, and doesn't automatically make it all-superior to a 1ghz P3, for instance..Quote:
That's likely the only place where you would find Xeons. That, and the industrial industry.
well outside the IT industry have you had experience with an Athlon?Quote:
Therein lies your problem. You read what others write, you listen to what others say; that only carries you so far.
Yes, yes, the extra cache is definitely an enhancement, of course, but for CERTAIN TASKS most tailored to desktops, the extra CPU speed is more important than cache.Quote:
It's the same processor, the same instructions. The reason you don't find it on desktops (that 99% of people buy, anway) is because an Athlon or a Pentium IV will get the job done without spending an extra $800 when you're likely not going to see a performance difference.
The reason a Xeon is much faster than other processors is because it has up to 2MB of L2 cache. Therefore, repetitive tasks run blazingly fast; as a result:Quote:
it is how fast it can do Photoshop, play games, encode mp3s, render video, etc. these tasks require CPU speed
-Photoshop: for most projects, you'd probably do without cache. Producing or rendering 3-D video is quite the opposite.
-Play games: most games are rendered on the spot, and generating entirely new images constantly. As a result, most computers found in computer cafes are Celerons or Durons.
-Encode MP3s: Very repetitive process. I haven't tried it, but I'd predict that an MP3 would encode at maximum compression at less than a quarter of the speed it takes on a desktop processor.
-Render video: again, very repetitive. In fact, the film Shrek was rendered entirely on one thousand PIII Xeon 700's; incidentally, all running Linux.
Yes. You're trying to deviate the question because you've realized I'm right.Quote:
well outside the IT industry have you had experience with an Athlon?
I highly doubt that tasks like that are very common.Quote:
Yes, yes, the extra cache is definitely an enhancement, of course, but for CERTAIN TASKS most tailored to desktops, the extra CPU speed is more important than cache.
Again, you can tack on all the cache you want but the processor still lacks clock speed. As i said before, tack a 16mb cache on a 200Pentium and it's still not a 1.4 Athlon, it's a 200 pentium. It also works in reverse, a 10ghz CPU with a 16K L2 cache won't stack up to any of the CPUs mentioned.Quote:
Originally posted by aknisely
[B]The reason a Xeon is much faster than other processors is because it has up to 2MB of L2 cache
OK.Quote:
-Photoshop: for most projects, you'd probably do without cache. Producing or rendering 3-D video is quite the opposite.
I have no idea what the computer cafe statement has to do with anything, but OK.Quote:
-Play games: most games are rendered on the spot, and generating entirely new images constantly. As a result, most computers found in computer cafes are Celerons or Durons.
Neither of us can be sure about how the Xeon would handle it..Quote:
-Encode MP3s: Very repetitive process. I haven't tried it, but I'd predict that an MP3 would encode at maximum compression at less than a quarter of the speed it takes on a desktop processor.
First of all, everyone knows G4s are better at video rendering than anything. I heard the movie Titanic was rendered on a bunch of G4s.Quote:
-Render video: again, very repetitive. In fact, the film Shrek was rendered entirely on one thousand PIII Xeon 700's; incidentally, all running Linux.
Secondly, I am not talking about hollywood movies though, i'm talking about DV camcorder movies, etc..besides, it makes more sense to use Xeons for that purpose, as there are probably 4 or 8 CPU Xeon boards. Athlons max out at 2.
[/quote]
Ehh..you're not right dude.Quote:
Yes. You're trying to deviate the question because you've realized I'm right.
I beg to differ, I will do some more research and get back to you. For the time being I have better things to do =)Quote:
I highly doubt that tasks like that are very common.
Computer cafes are where people go to play games for an afternoon and don't have the strength for a LAN party.Quote:
I have no idea what the computer cafe statement has to do with anything, but OK.
No, but compression, encryption, anything requiring mathematical repitition would benefit highly from more cache. Of course, using a Xeon for encoding MP3s is a bit trivial.Quote:
Neither of us can be sure about how the Xeon would handle it..
Your first problem was defined in two words: "everyone knows." You can't always rely on what "everyone knows." Second, Titanic wasn't an animated film, Shrek was.Quote:
First of all, everyone knows G4s are better at video rendering than anything. I heard the movie Titanic was rendered on a bunch of G4s.
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Originally posted by aknisely
Computer cafes are where people go to play games for an afternoon and don't have the strength for a LAN party.
Oh... i usually don't head for the city and i've never been to a computer cafe, i thought people just surfed the net on em :)
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No, but compression, encryption, anything requiring mathematical repitition would benefit highly from more cache. Of course, using a Xeon for encoding MP3s is a bit trivial.
Good point there. I wasn't talking about 3d rendering, I was more referring to video rendering, as in once you have the raw video then you apply the effects, and you make it into one movie...Quote:
Your first problem was defined in two words: "everyone knows." You can't always rely on what "everyone knows." Second, Titanic wasn't an animated film, Shrek was.
Simply put, you will see a performance increase in some tasks with the Xeon on a desktop, and some tasks lke games and stuff will have more of an advantage with the higher clock speed of desktop CPUs. But, nobody uses Xeons for desktops.
At the moment, Intel clearly wins in the server market (althouhg I think AMD's new 64 bit chip could change all that..)
AMD clearly wins in the desktop market, as the Athlon is superior to any offering by Intel in this market. So therefore, from a desktop user and enthusiast, AMD "rules".
Any disagreements?
I really don't have the time to argue at the moment, I'm sort of tired now. Good night and talk to you tomorrow.
Let's see if we can have a 2nd opninon on this...:)
Even so, you don't need an Athlon 1.4 to surf the net :)Quote:
Oh... i usually don't head for the city and i've never been to a computer cafe, i thought people just surfed the net on em
Outside of people who download and compute satellite data (which is becoming more of a server-oriented task anyway) and people working for special gov't things like the NSA and NASA, you're right.Quote:
But, nobody uses Xeons for desktops.
Not anymore, you seem to have conceded to most of my arguments.:DQuote:
Any disagreements?