Printable View
IT won't... why should it? Then again... what do I know? I'm just a developer... not an F1 or FIA technician... Maybe they include tier weight, maybe they don't. I assume they do, because that's why they go off the line at the finish to pick up any extra clag that they can for weight purposes...Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionBase1
-tg
Based on what I've read as well, I'm sure you are correct, which to me is silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by techgnome
Picture a single frame cartoon with a teeny F1 car on a scale, and wrapped around the tires are hundreds of pounds of trash, Martin Brundle and his microphone, etc. Caption: "Weight looks good!"
If I had any artistic ability of any kind, I would so create that cartoon... Well played...Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionBase1
-tg
Seems like everyone in F1 has circled the wagons around tire wear causing the weight problem. Pirelli said a tire could lose 1 kilo of rubber. Whatever the reason, Russell did a hell of a job.
With Mercedes improved performance and Ferrari's lack of performance I wonder what Lewis is thinking.
I saw Sainz is going to Williams. That's good for Williams and bad for Sainz. A big step down.
Totally baffled by Red Bull's decision to keep Perez.
Bringing Daniel Ricciardo out of retirement to Alpha Tauri last year, instead of bringing up Liam Lawson into that seat, makes sense in literally only one scenario - and that is to have an accomplished veteran in the wait in case Perez has yet another mid-season meltdown.
Perez has his meltdown, arguably the worst in his Red Bull tenure, and Red Bull sticks with him. The rumor is they weren't confident that whoever replaced him would be better than he has been. Well, when a driver isn't scoring points to begin with, it doesn't matter if they finish 11th or 20th.
Basically, Daniel's presence at Alpha Tauri/VCARB has accomplished absolutely nothing except keep Liam Lawson from getting a year of real F1 experience. With the Perez decision made, VCARB should immediately replace Daniel with Liam, and keep Daniel on as a reserve driver.
If Perez sees the season out and doesn't manage to be consistently at least in the mix for podiums, and Red Bull loses out on the Constructor's championship, then Red Bull as an organization will be as much to blame for that colossal failure, if not more to blame, than Perez. This is a company with two F1 teams, reserve drivers, F2 drivers, etc. There's absolutely no excuse for not having a viable plan B, and having the stones to implement it, in the not unexpected case that Perez implodes.
I read something that there was financial pressure from within F1 for Red Bull to keep Perez because of the financial support he brings to the sport as a whole from Mexico and Latin America. If that was at all a factor in Red Bull's decision, then that's terrible.
I think one thing that makes Perez appear to meltdown is that RB doesn't seem to have the dominate car anymore. Max has went 4 races without a win. Certainly haven't seen that in a long time.
It's been an enjoyable stretch, got awfully tired of Max, Max, Max.
What is 'clag'? I think I picked it up from context, but I'm curious about that.
Tire dingleberries.
Now THAT's an evocative description!
Crazy Daytona Nascar race tonight. I remember when the "Car Of Tomorrow" first came out with the wing in the back that caused cars to go airborne when they got spun around.
I'm pretty sure Josh Berry's car flipped because of the aero shenanigans from the 2 being right behind him. If you watch the replays, the 2 had a similar trajectory and it started to lift off the ground just slightly a couple times but never flipped over.
Yeah, crazy race. You gotta give it up for NASCAR and the safety of those cars. There was some big wrecks and everyone walked away. Three wide racing lap after lap at 190, impressive. Sorta wanted Bush to win, just to see him in the play offs.
McLaren looking strong. I thought maybe Max could pull off the win after the fast start, but it wasn't to be.
The scuttlebutt about Red Bull is that it's not that all the teams suddenly made simultaneous huge gains against Red Bull, it is that Red Bull was doing something in a "gray area" as far as rules were concerned, the FIA told them they had to "fix" whatever that was, and that has cost them multiple tenths per lap. That would certainly make sense based on their initially dominant start, followed by consistently only being "in the mix" for the win.
Logan Sargeant out at Williams effective immediately, some F2 driver I've never heard of has that seat the rest of the year.
There was talk of Liam Lawson or Mick Schumacher possibly taking over for Logan for the remainder of the year, it's a shame neither of those possibilities panned out.
At this point, I would say it is 90% that McLaren wins the constructor's championship, 9.99% that it is Red Bull, and 0.01% that it is Ferrari or Mercedes.
I think right now, if Lando Norris wins the rest of the races and gets the fasted lap point and Max finishes 2nd in all of them (Lando cuts into Max's lead by +8 points per race), Lando wins the driver's championship by 2 points. That's a longshot, but then there might be races where Lando wins and Max finishes 4th or something where the cut into the lead is more than 8 points per race. I'm rooting for Max to win the driver's championship, but he's certainly going to have to fight for this one probably almost as hard as his first one.
Yeah, Lando winning the championship seems unlikely. But it's been nice not having Max winning every race by 20 seconds.
Last week I read an article about F1 clarifying the braking reg's. Made me wonder if this was where RB had it's major performance advantage that suddenly disappeared.
Lando pole, Max starting in a distant 7th.
Imagine a scenario where Max wins the driver's championship by just a few points - a margin small enough to where if Lando hadn't been forced to let Oscar Piastri pass him for the win a few races ago, Lando would have been the Driver's champion as well.
McLaren could possibly take the lead in the constructor's championship this weekend. What a season.
Be interesting to see it plays out tomorrow. If McLaren pulls it off again I might start being a true believer. lol
If they finish 1,2 and Max/Perez is 4th/5th. It'll be within a few points. Been a while since Red Bull has had to sweat.
Looking forward to seeing how it unfolds.
Ferrari with the right strategy call. It sucks for Lando, he had the opportunity to cute into Max's lead big time today.
Red Bull could easily end up down in 3rd in the Constructor's championship within the couple races.
Lando still has a good chance to win the Driver's championship. I don't see Max winning another race this year, their pace deficit is just way too big, and there are 6 other cars that can potentially outrun them each weekend.
It is a little shocking how RB suddenly went from dominating to being behind on performance. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks F1 found RB was doing something outside the rules and made them bring their car back within the rules and isn't telling anyone because of the problems that would create. Because it's hard to believe the other 3 major teams all found more performance at the same time.
You got to know there's a cabal of super rich people hiding behind the curtain pulling the strings. lol
I have a feeling it was more of a grey area that RB was operating in, and the FIA probably started getting a bit more nit picky about tolerances, and it caught RB with their proverbial pants down.
-tg
On a different but tangentially related topic (sports scandals being covered up for financial reasons), I'm convinced that Ohtani's interpreter took the fall for Ohtani's own gambling problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
And Michael Jordan's first retirement after the 1992-1993 season was because he was constantly gambling, but the league couldn't make that public because of how detrimental it would be to the NBA as a whole. So he was allowed to "retire" instead of being suspended.
And other teams were almost certainly involved in the sign stealing scandal in MLB several years ago, possibly even my home team the Minnesota Twins. If you look at the record for the most home runs hit by a team in the course of one season, 4 of the top 5 slots are all from the 2019 season. The Twins came out of nowhere to break that record that year. Looking at the top 26 Seasons/Teams, something like 10 of them are all from the 2019 season. Juiced baseballs? I don't think so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...me_run_records
Gambling is one thing, but when it comes to cheating in professional sports, the money is so great that anything not explicitly forbidden is effectively mandatory.
Max starting the race tomorrow in 6th, Lando starting in 17th. Ooof, what a waste of an opportunity to cut in to Max's lead even more. That being said, I suspect that Lando will drive through the back part of the field fairly quickly and might end up finishing right behind Max in the end.
What happened? DirecTv and Disney were at war so I didn't have that channel. Glad to see they settled and the stations are back.
What happened? DirecTv and Disney were at war so I didn't have that channel. Glad to see they settled and the stations are back.
I didn't catch it live, but I think Lando's final run in Q1 got interrupted by a yellow flag which forced him to slow down.
Crazy race today. Perez desperation leads to catastrophe for himself and Carlos Sainz. Norris passing Verstappen was great. Piastri holding off Charles for lap after lap was great to watch. Bearman making F1 history by driving for 2 different teams in his first 2 F1 races ever and scoring points in both of them. Colapinto scoring points for Williams.
This is funny, https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...ence/10656035/
Hope we get a pic of him picking up trash along side the track. lol
I can't blame him for being angry, to suddenly go from winning most races by 20 seconds to struggling for a podium is a big fall. I really don't have a good explanation either.
So, the driver gets to do community service, but the two bosses got only a warning for the exact same word?
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Tomorrow's race should be a good one. Lots of qualification shenanigans should lead to some critical overtakes. It will be interesting to see how far up Perez makes it from P13. He might only barely make it into the points. Can Ferrari recover from a horrific Q3 to challenge for the podium? Does Max drop like a stone from P2 or can he retain a podium finish? Can Piastri make it a McLaren 1-2 from P5?
It is also rumored to be Daniel's final race for RB and that Liam Lawson will finish the season in that seat. If so, that's absolutely the logical decision, albeit a couple races late IMO. Daniel's best F1 years are behind him, and they need Team RB drivers to be young guys with potential.
There are a lot more question marks than usual. I'm curious if Max can make a comeback. I can't quite figure out Mercedes place in all of this. They had a good car for a couple of weeks then they weren't competitive with the top cars the last couple of races. I've notice the last few races that Williams has become competitive with the mid pack car, which is a step up.
Largely uneventful race. Verstappen held his own, Perez mired in traffic. Piastri salvaged a podium, Ferrari gained some spots, Colapinto deserves a seat in F1 next year.
50/50 that Max wins the driver's championship at this point. 0.01% chance that Red Bull wins the constructor's championship at this point.
Latest rumor is that Perez will announce his retirement from F1 at the Mexico race. Seems a bit odd after he just signed a 2 year extension with Red Bull a couple months ago. Further rumor is that Red Bull will try to lure Piastri away from McLaren to fill the Perez seat. Even further rumor is that Max is going to be driving somewhere else (Mercedes?) in 2026.
If all of that was a Parlay bet, not sure I'd take it.
The Max-Merc rumor has been swirling for a couple weeks now ... beginning to suspect there's a bit of smoke there...
Even if Perez retires from racing, it's possible the contract has him staying on in some other capacity - reserve, development, or non-F1 racing - so I wouldn't rule that out just yet.
But the Piastri move ... I don't know about that ... with what McLaren has been doing lately... then again, if RB is set to lose both Perez and Max... that would be a pretty good/quick way to getting a #1 spot, which I don't see happening at McLaren as long as Norris remains there.
The next two or three off-seasons are going to be interesting.
-tg
Yeah, that's about the only way it would make sense. Not that these things always do.Quote:
if RB is set to lose both Perez and Max... that would be a pretty good/quick way to getting a #1 spot, which I don't see happening at McLaren as long as Norris remains there.
I don't see Norris as being that far ahead of of Piastri. Norris has more experience, be interesting to see if Piastri keeps improving.
Sort of a ho-hum race. Ferrari set to take over 2nd place in the constructor's championship after the next race. They might be able to pass McLaren if they have more races like today's race.
Lawson and Colapinto scoring points was good for their careers. The downfall of Aston Martin has been sad, I'm sure Alonso is having no fun at all running outside the points.
Haas can maybe hold on to 6th place overall, which would be a good finish for them considering they were dead last a couple years ago.
Hamilton's early crash was disappointing. And Norris deserved the podium over Verstappen.
2025 driver predictions:
Red Bull: Max Verstappen, Liam Lawson
VCARB: Yuki Tsunda, Franco Colapinto
Interesting year. Dominate car can change from week to week. Any that's a good thing for the fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionBase1
Aston Martin has quickly become a non factor. They did the same thing last year. Started strong then just faded away.
HAAS has been fun to watch for us US fans. If they can stay ahead of RB that would be nice but even 7th in points is a big improvement.
Perez qualifies 18th at his home race. Red Bull has absolutely thrown this season away by not replacing him months ago.
What a terrible race for Red Bull. Max is clearly in desperation racing mode. He's lucky he hasn't caused huge wrecks these last two races.
Can Ferrari catch McLaren? Can Lando catch Max? The final races are set up for huge drama.
Can Leclecr catch Lando?? Max would have to have some really bad luck for Lando to catch him but anything is possible.
How about those HAAS cars? Both scored points today. Happy for them.
Can't believe F1 racing into December. Don't remember them going this late before.
Just going to note this for the record. Holy cow (pun intended? Heyo!) I can't stand Karun Chandhok. He does this really, really annoying thing when he talks every once in a while where it sounds like he's in the middle of a straining poop push.
Sergio Perez manages to not make it to the line in time for his qualifying lap and qualifies 13th for the Sprint race. You can't make this stuff up.
New 2025 driver scuttlebutt:
Red Bull: Max, Carlos Sainz
VCARB: Yuki, Liam
Williams: Albon, Colapinto
With the great year Sainz has had this year for Ferrari, this would be a no-brainer move for Red Bull to sign him to replace Perez. Sainz was reported to have a clause in his new Williams contract that would let him leave Williams if either Mercedes or Red Bull offered him a seat. Sainz already drove under the Red Bull team structure as Max's teammate at Torro Rosso years ago. Hopefully this happens!
Think I'd rather see Liam paired with Max. I like to see what he could do in a top car. But Sainz is having a really good year.
Lando has an opportunity to close the gap to Max big time today if he can capitalize.
Dream race for Max and Alpine. Pretty much a disaster for everyone else. That race "start" that wasn't was the biggest clustercoit I've seen in a long time in racing.
Nascar finish. Still haven't announced the decision about Bell/Byron. Longshot prediction: Nascar rules that Bell broke the Chastain rule, but Byron benefited from the 3 and the 1 cars manipulating the finish on Byron's behalf, and they disqualify both of them and promote Larson into the Final Four.
Jeff Burton seemed unhappy that the radio conversation between the 3 and 1 teams and drivers exposed the shady happenings in this type of racing, where non-playoff drivers can manipulate things to help certain drivers move forward in the playoffs. Really bad look for Nascar when things like "knowing the plan" is discussed openly on the radio regarding the 1 and the 3 roadblocking two-wide behind the 24.
Did Bubba Wallace really have a tire going down, or did he just let Bell pass? At least that situation wasn't overtly collusive.
Alpine hit the jackpot. I don't know why Ocon left the inside open in turn 1 for Max to take the lead. That's where he made most of his passes.Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionBase1
Really bad day for HAAS.
I didn't see anything about the 1 and 3 conversation on the NASCAR website. Where did you hear about it???Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionBase1
I don't have a problem with the Bell penalty. He road the wall for a while.
Those conversations were played after the race during the post-race broadcast on NBC. Very, very conclusive that the plan was for Chevy's to roadblock for Byron to let him point in to the final 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
Martin Truex Junior was thrown out of the playoffs many years ago because of another driver manipulating the finish of a race, so there is precedence for tossing Byron IMO.
It's a really, really bad look for Nascar. Especially now that it is legal in many states to bet on races. Clearcut, multi-team collusion over radio broadcasts. Not good at all.
Onboard radio from the 3 of Austin Dillon.
https://x.com/basso488/status/1853252479707763014
Early on, discussion of where the 24 is in terms of points to the playoff line.
36 seconds
Spotter or Crew chief: "Keep me posted on this deal (Justin?)"
40 seconds
Spotter or Crew chief: "Ah, 1/2 77, 1 With him" [At that point, the 77 was at least 1 if not multiple laps down. The 1 is Chastain]
43 seconds
Austin: "(Does) he know the deal?"
After that, pretty boilerplate messaging.
Onboard radio from the 1 of Ross Chastain.
https://x.com/basso488/status/1853285151465455670
1:11
Spotter: "The 24 is 1 to the good, 1 point to the good" [Why would a different driver for a different team care if it was straight up racing?]
Not the best look for NASCAR but nothing that should get Byron disqualified. The 24 team wasn't involved in any of those conversations. Not that surprising that fellow Chevy team member that had nothing to gain by passing the 24 chose not to. The biggest problem was talking about it on the radio. lol
In F1 they come right out and say it. Must suck for the driver getting the bad end of the deal.
As I said earlier, there is precedent. Martin Truex was disqualified from the playoffs because of Clint Bowyer intentionally spinning to bring out a caution. Manipulating the outcome of a race to the benefit of another driver. Martin didn't do anything wrong, but it didn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
What *should* happen is someone like Dale Jr. should go on his show and just air it all out. Talk about how it is no secret that he would love to move his team up to the Cup Series. But that he is hesitant to, because it's not just his drivers vs. other drivers. It's his drivers vs. a collusive conglomeration of drivers that refuse to race either other hard when any one of them needs the benefit of not being passed. That would get some press that Nascar would **** bricks about.
There is some significant differences. Those were actual teammates and the owner was involved. Also there are are rules against intentionally bringing out a caution and intentionally spinning out has safety issues. As far as I know there is no rules about not passing someone. I'm sure NASCAR isn't happy about the situation. We'll see what NASCAR thinks.Quote:
As I said earlier, there is precedent. Martin Truex was disqualified from the playoffs because of Clint Bowyer intentionally spinning to bring out a caution. Manipulating the outcome of a race to the benefit of another driver. Martin didn't do anything wrong, but it didn't matter.
If Jr. moves to Cup his team would be part of one of those groups. There's no avoiding that, you can't survive without them it's to expensive and their research is to valuable. But this is true in all forms of top level racing. For the most part I think Cup series drivers do a good job of racing everyone hard for every position. You do see the manufacturers groups pitting together on super speed ways but I don't have a real problem with that.Quote:
What *should* happen is someone like Dale Jr. should go on his show and just air it all out. Talk about how it is no secret that he would love to move his team up to the Cup Series. But that he is hesitant to, because it's not just his drivers vs. other drivers. It's his drivers vs. a collusive conglomeration of drivers that refuse to race either other hard when any one of them needs the benefit of not being passed. That would get some press that Nascar would **** bricks about.
There is just so much money involved at the Cup level, Indy car or F1 that politics is unavoidable. As fans we don't want that, we want 100% hard driving but that's not going to happen.
Maybe I was wrong about there being no rule against not passing if you can.
Quote:
Truex was kicked out of the playoffs — the scandal ultimately caused the closure of Michael Waltrip Racing — and Jeff Gordon was added as an unprecedented additional driver because he'd been robbed of the chance to race for the playoff position. It was after a weekend of crisis meetings between NASCAR and the teams at the playoff-opening race that NASCAR made its 100% rule.
But the manipulation rule is openly flouted at Daytona and Talladega, where the cars from the manufacturers all work together in the draft and when the drivers make their pit stops. There has yet to be a penalty for those instances.
In this latest case, NASCAR determined Toyota driver Wallace faked a flat tire in order to give Bell the leeway to move out of the way and hit the wall. The riding the wall move was banned after Chastain did it in 2022 to earn the final playoff berth.
In the case of Byron, NASCAR ruled that Chastain and Dillon both ran interference to help fellow Chevrolet driver Byron not lose any position on the track that would cost him a spot in the championship.
Sawyer said the sanctioning body considered taking action against manufacturers Chevrolet and Toyota, but there is nothing in the rulebook that would call for the manufacturers to be punished. NASCAR also planned to meet with the leaders of Ford, Chevy and Toyota to discuss the situation.
I thought they did too, and I can't remember the situation where it was first discussed years ago. Something about the need to drive competitively or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
What probably happens with this is Nascar tells teams to keep this stuff off radio. Which is probably all they can do to be honest. I feel bad for Bell, I feel bad for Byron, I feel bad for Larson. I feel bad for anyone who bets on Nascar.
I hope the result of the final is that one of the other 3 drivers wins the race and everyone moves on. If Bell wins the race, it sucks big time and the story lingers. If Byron wins the championship, then the story will linger.
Story has hit mainstream.
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/nascar-a...161600482.html
Penalties have been handed down to the Chastain, Dillon, and Wallace teams.
They must have had data or other radio messages to nail Wallace. All I heard was that he reported having a tire going down and slowed way down.
Byron stays in the final 4. Not sure how I feel about it. I'm glad they addressed it, but not sure that the fines do anything to address the loss of confidence in the legitimacy of the competition.
I read about that yesterday. My confidence in the legitimacy of the races hasn't changed. I think Harvick is honest about the situation,
https://www.on3.com/pro/news/kevin-h...sville-nascar/
It hasn't been a secret. Like I said before, the biggest mistake was talking about it over the radio. Of course I don't have a real problem with manufacture loyalty.
It will be interesting to see if now NASCAR does something about the Super Speedways races.
Once it hits the mainstream, they have no choice but to take action, normal or not. In sports, integrity isn't as important as the appearance of integrity.