Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

So, we've covered misogyny, homophobia, you can't agree on whether vegans are dangerous, what else? You folks are working yourselves into a dark, paranoid, frenzy. If you want to find the darkness, it's there to find. You don't even have to look all that far.

Humans only have one skill: The ability to see patterns, even when they don't exist. It's all we're good at. So, when your life isn't all you were hoping it would be, you look out there and see some malign pattern that is conspiring to bring you down. It's always 'them', it's never you.

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For me personally, I don't worry about it as much as I try to use what I'm seeing in the world as a lesson. In the best case, I can use it to get ahead in my own life or at the very least, not fall into the traps set by the powers that be and screw up my life too badly. I don't cry about it or blame the state of my life on these things. I am solely responsible for the state of my life. The more I know about the world around me, the better choices I can make. It's really as simple as that for me. I have no desire to spend my life worrying about all this. I just want to use the knowledge to my benefit.

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Originally Posted by baka

the problem is when its forced on you. when its mandate and they don't give you a choice.
or when theres a movement, that blocks you, punish you, when you don't want to comply.

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There are some serial killers who would totally agree with you. They just want to kill women, but they aren't given the freedom to do so.

The same case could be made for various racists, anti-semites, Republicans, Democrats, and so on. The truth is that none of us are free or ever want to be free. We just don't notice the chains that we don't mind wearing. We only notice the chains that we do mind. You give up freedom to live well, to have family, to have love, to have the computer you are reading this on. You don't object to most of that, though. Heck, you might not even notice it. And yet you complain bitterly when something else is forced on you.

Everybody draws that line in a different place. Just reading through the posts on here it is clear that you all want the line to be drawn in some different place. Kind of reminds me of the fight over a new VB6, especially since it's some of the same characters all wanting a new VB6 and all insisting that it has/doesn't have, a different set of features.

One thing about con artists is that they take advantage of the trust we have in one another. You will never be conned if you never trust anybody. You will also be miserable, paranoid, bitter and desperate. Frankly, it is better to be conned than be a person who can't be. Therefore, you have to accept that you will occasionally be conned, as it's the price you pay for being happy.

yeah. Shaggy Hiker.
thats what I try to do. I dont believe that everything need to be put in opposite positions.
that is why I wrote the last post,
that not everything is manipulation and has an agenda.

theres a lot of good things happening. watching shows with people taking care of others, both people and animals.
if theres are an entity that is greedy and want to control you, that doesn't mean that everything is evil.

a movement can be a good thing. the vegan movement is good, and its not that we need to believe in everything they do, but that gives us a chance to think, to reason, to get new perspectives.
the problem is when a movement "believe" they have the mandate to start controlling you. as long I don't feel a movement is pushing me into a direction without my choice, I say, let it be there.

but, what those rich families are doing, controlling the narrative in big news channels. that for me its against the basic rules we have.
to give a person a choice. because lies and manipulation removes you the choice to decide for yourself.

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Originally Posted by baka

not everything is manipulation and has an agenda.

its not a bad thing to believe in animals rights,
to believe in equality, to want to eat healthy food or not eat meat.
and to want to have a clean environment.

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Sorry, I don't agree. I believe that meat is healthy food.

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Originally Posted by baka

the problem is when its forced on you. when its mandate and they don't give you a choice.

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That seems to be what veganists want.

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Originally Posted by baka

or when theres a movement, that blocks you, punish you, when you don't want to comply.

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If you hear them, they are already doing that,

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Originally Posted by baka

when they tell you, you should eat at least 1 vegetarian meal a week.
instead of, try vegetarian food if you want. maybe you will enjoy it. there should be respect to another persons choices. as long that person is not dangerous.

Im vegetarian and I could have a long discussion why I think its right.
but its my choice. nobody forced me. and that should be respected.

because if someone says, you are wrong to be vegetarian, I will argue about that its wrong to be carnivores. as a defense mechanism.

so its not just about one side that need to understand or be wise or comply or change. but to allow diversity.

veganism is not equal to eat vegetarian, but its also a movement, an activism.
and thats the part that we should discuss, not the choice of food.

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I respect vegetarian people. Everyone is free to eat what they believe is better.

But veganism is something that is entirely different. They are fanatics, and they want to impose to others their ideology. They want to close slaughterhouses, and to ban any activity that has to do with animals.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

So, we've covered misogyny, homophobia, you can't agree on whether vegans are dangerous, what else? You folks are working yourselves into a dark, paranoid, frenzy. If you want to find the darkness, it's there to find. You don't even have to look all that far.

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Yes, we want to find darkness and fight against it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Humans only have one skill: The ability to see patterns, even when they don't exist. It's all we're good at. So, when your life isn't all you were hoping it would be, you look out there and see some malign pattern that is conspiring to bring you down. It's always 'them', it's never you.

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That sound too gay for us.

I dont agree at all Shaggy Hiker.
now you are doing exactly what you should not go. you go to the extreme. doing so you will make us go further from each other, creating opposition.

the lines are quite obvious, and I quote myself:

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as long that person is not dangerous.

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and that means anything that could lead to harm in any way.

so Im not sure what you try to say. maybe u defend yourself now. u feel threaten that your world view could crumble and you try to make a point.
but the only thing u do is making a bad point. anyone sane understand this.

of course a sick person we need to take care of. hospitalization, jail or medicine.
but its not the same thing as choices that need to be respected.

its a human right not decide your own body. if you force a vaccine on someone else, you are a tyrant. who are you to decide what another person should do or not do? a god? who gave you that mandate?
if you want to take the vaccine, go ahead. nobody is stopping you. its your choice. if you want to eat meat, go ahead.
but not force others to do that. thats tyranny and very egoistical.

I don't endorse any animal cruelty. But the truth is that animals are things.

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Originally Posted by Niya

I am solely responsible for the state of my life. The more I know about the world around me, the better choices I can make. It's really as simple as that for me.

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Really?

I've lived what could only be considered a charmed life. I have a mind and body that allows me to do pretty nearly anything I want (except be a jockey...I can't be a jockey). I had the upbringing that opened any door I wanted. And yet, when I look back on my life, I am barely responsible for the state of my life. I made good choices from the options before me, but I NEVER put those options before me. Did I make the BEST choices? Well, I can't be sure, since I've only followed this path, but there are some other options I think I should have pursued. However, those other options are always women, and you never know how that would have turned out. Still, I made pretty good choices, I just wasn't the one putting the options before me.

For example, when I got out of college, I went hiking for four months. That was all I was planning, so while I was out there, I was trying to figure out what to do next. I decided that all I really knew was being in school, so I went back to my college to talk to my advisor. He gave me a list of grad schools he thought I might like. I promptly lost the list, applied to the only ones I could remember from the list, and went to the one that offered me the most money. So, my advisor gave me the list of places to apply. My choice was based on who gave me the most money, not on the degree, which was a good thing, because I changed from toxicology to fisheries. I started with a toxicologist, but he took a job at a different university, leaving me with no major. A buddy of mine, who I had met when we were signing up for classes, suggested I join him in fisheries. My first job was because the guy who hired me had graduated from the same place a year before I started and only posted jobs to schools he had attended. His advisor knew I was looking for a job, and passed the listing on to me...and so on.

So, perhaps you could say that I was responsible because people liked me enough to help me out, but my grad school was because of the list my advisor gave me, and the funding structure of that school relative to the others, then my major was based on a suggestion from a guy I had befriended while applying for classes, and then my first job was based on a listing being passed along by somebody else where the listing only existed because my future boss happened to have attended that school.

What part of that was my doing?

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and that means anything that could lead to harm in any way.

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You mean things like passing a deadly disease along to you?

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so Im not sure what you try to say. maybe u defend yourself now. u feel threaten that your world view could crumble and you try to make a point.

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My world isn't likely to crumble.

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but the only thing u do is making a bad point. anyone sane understand this.

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And therefore, you are saying that I'm insane and you are not? That's very convenient. It lets you discount any view that doesn't agree with yours. I don't think your insane, I just think you're unhappy and trying to rationalize it away.

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of course a sick person we need to take care of. hospitalization, jail or medicine.
but its not the same thing as choices that need to be respected.

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Jail the sick? Voluntarily, or does their choice not get respected in that case? How do you decide?

It's not a simple question. In this state, there are people who are opposed to all health care. Their faith states that it is always God's will. So, there was a recent case (though there have been several), where the very young child of a couple came down with something readily treatable, but fatal if not treated. Do they have the right to let their child die because their faith requires that? If you find that question easy, then you aren't thinking about it enough. There is a near infinite gradation to that question: How much harm are you allowed to do to your children just because you believe it is the right thing to do? Also, who gets to decide what is harm?

jail the people that do harm. do I need to phrase everything? I thought it was obvious when u wrote: serial killers.

and "sane" is a person that understand that I meant choices that are good and not destructive.
as you wrote: There are some serial killers who would totally agree with you.

that part: You mean things like passing a deadly disease along to you?

ARE YOU REALLY SURE

thats my question to you.
you seems to be sure this is how it works. you seems to be sure that everything in media and other sources you follow are 100% facts and no manipulation.

but thats the whole reason we have so much discussions here.
I don't believe in that. I actually think that the vaccination program is the reason we are in this mess.

so my answer is:

are you not ashamed that you are passing a deadly disease along to you.

for that could be the truth if the information I have listen to, is actually correct.



now, what can we do?
you have your truth and I have mine. thats the issue here.
so, my perspective I see things completely reversed from your perspective.

so, we are stuck. I encourage you to watch the video in https://www.stopworldcontrol.com

and I do that "NOT" to tell you, you are wrong, now you need to learn the truth.
but to watch a couple of video and see/hear what "I" believe in. after that we can have a discussion where you can tell me.

you know, that part is totally BS, look here I have "this" and "this" and tell otherwise.

but right now, are so distant from each other because I feel you are not even consider the information I have.
so what can we do? you keep telling me Im the evil person that is doing harm while I need to keep posting links and data that in the end will not do anything, since you do not care.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

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That data is a month old.

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Yes, it is.

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No, it isn't... (what the hell???)
Here is the link again:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...IN~SWE~CHE~AUT

The link shows current data, up until (as of today) the 13.01.2022!

What I did, was restricting the time-interval on the *left-hand-side* (to Dec. 1. 2021) - because
the discussion was basically about Omicron and the fear-mongering in the official media-channels -
(regarding the supposed "danger it poses", and that "everything will break down")

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

You really are being highly selective in the data you're choosing to use, Olaf

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Nope, I've included quite a few EU-countries in that Chart-Link above -
furthermore, I've also posted a second link with the few EU-countries (France, Italy, Spain),
where the "non-effect, Omicron had on ICU-occupation", was not that clearly observable...

It is your Screenshot which doesn't show any Omicron-related info (because it ends at October 15).

Therefore I'd suggest, to not be as selective with the data you present, Funky. ;)

Olaf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Really?

I've lived what could only be considered a charmed life. I have a mind and body that allows me to do pretty nearly anything I want (except be a jockey...I can't be a jockey). I had the upbringing that opened any door I wanted. And yet, when I look back on my life, I am barely responsible for the state of my life. I made good choices from the options before me, but I NEVER put those options before me. Did I make the BEST choices? Well, I can't be sure, since I've only followed this path, but there are some other options I think I should have pursued. However, those other options are always women, and you never know how that would have turned out. Still, I made pretty good choices, I just wasn't the one putting the options before me.

For example, when I got out of college, I went hiking for four months. That was all I was planning, so while I was out there, I was trying to figure out what to do next. I decided that all I really knew was being in school, so I went back to my college to talk to my advisor. He gave me a list of grad schools he thought I might like. I promptly lost the list, applied to the only ones I could remember from the list, and went to the one that offered me the most money. So, my advisor gave me the list of places to apply. My choice was based on who gave me the most money, not on the degree, which was a good thing, because I changed from toxicology to fisheries. I started with a toxicologist, but he took a job at a different university, leaving me with no major. A buddy of mine, who I had met when we were signing up for classes, suggested I join him in fisheries. My first job was because the guy who hired me had graduated from the same place a year before I started and only posted jobs to schools he had attended. His advisor knew I was looking for a job, and passed the listing on to me...and so on.

So, perhaps you could say that I was responsible because people liked me enough to help me out, but my grad school was because of the list my advisor gave me, and the funding structure of that school relative to the others, then my major was based on a suggestion from a guy I had befriended while applying for classes, and then my first job was based on a listing being passed along by somebody else where the listing only existed because my future boss happened to have attended that school.

What part of that was my doing?

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If I understand correctly, what you're saying is that your life happened with little input from you. You were just along for the ride. I'm sorry but I don't quite agree. Because even the simplest choice is still a choice. Something as simple as saying yes or no to something presented to you by powers beyond your control can still have a drastic effect on the course of your life. A guy steps on your lawn, you can either shoot him dead and spend the rest of your life in prison or you could choose not to shoot him and end up winning the lotto the next day. Whatever choice you make, it could be argued that everything that happens after that choice was a result of that choice. Nothing really happens in your life without your input, even if it's as simple as saying yes.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

passing a deadly disease

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oh boy....

as you said, if you look for darkness, you will find darkness. if everyone (especially if unvaxxed) is threatening your life, then i feel deeply sorry for you. your world must be very dark.

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Originally Posted by baka

jail the people that do harm. do I need to phrase everything? I thought it was obvious when u wrote: serial killers.

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Nope. That's the problem with doing harm. Yeah, a serial killer is an extreme example, but from there is just a constant gradient out to parents making choices that cause harm to their children. What that even means has changed over the years. So, yes, you DO need to phrase everything, because society has to decide where the line for harm is drawn, and that line shifts every year.

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and "sane" is a person that understand that I meant choices that are good and not destructive.

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Yep, and some people feel that their religious views are good even if they do cause harm. That was the point about those folks who allowed their child to die from a readily treatable disease because their faith dictated that behavior.

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that part: You mean things like passing a deadly disease along to you?

ARE YOU REALLY SURE

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Did you think I was talking about COVID? I wasn't. I had actually written about a different disease, but then removed it to leave it ambiguous. After all, most diseases CAN be deadly, just some are more so and others are less so. At what point do you decide that your safety requires that people with the disease change their behavior?

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you seems to be sure this is how it works. you seems to be sure that everything in media and other sources you follow are 100% facts and no manipulation.

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Of course not. The point of a scientific paper is not to find facts, it's to report evidence that supports or undermines a hypothesis.

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are you not ashamed that you are passing a deadly disease along to you.

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I'm passing a deadly disease on to me?

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now, what can we do?
you have your truth and I have mine. thats the issue here.
so, my perspective I see things completely reversed from your perspective.

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Yes, I agree with that. Your truth seems to be dark, scary, and afraid, though. Mine is nicer.

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Originally Posted by digitalShaman

oh boy....

as you said, if you look for darkness, you will find darkness. if everyone (especially if unvaxxed) is threatening your life, then i feel deeply sorry for you. your world must be very dark.

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I didn't get vaccinated because I was worried about COVID, I got vaccinated for the benefit of those around me.

That's an excellent use of "the big lie", though. Perfect technique is always impressive.

I'll be honest, I wish I had Shaggy's super-positive outlook on life but unfortunately, I cannot. I dared to wonder what was behind the curtain and now I'm forever tainted....condemned to see the monsters lurking in every shadow. :(

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

I didn't get vaccinated because I was worried about COVID, I got vaccinated for the benefit of those around me.

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I got vaccinated just for the card that allows me to do the things I could do pre-Covid that didn't require proof of vaccination at the time. My decision had nothing to do with Covid.

Frikin brains eaters...

So I was at work today and I had a mild catarrh and they told me to shove off for today, now I have a sore throat but I mean on the scale of 1-10 of how sick I feel I'm at 1.
So either that was from the frikin idiots that makes us wait in lines at 3 degrees for the rapid test or it's a simple flukus but must be the simplest flukus I've ever experienced or it's mr.O
If it's actually mr.O I have to ask?....That's aeit? That's fliking it? We are in lockdown for that?

P.S.I did not get vaccinated, to protect people from the vaxbie apocalypse.
Also I don't tend to be a lab rat. I don't get the benefit of those around me since vaxbies can catch and spread nicely. Unless that was a well hidden spam and I believe it was.

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Originally Posted by Niya

If I understand correctly, what you're saying is that your life happened with little input from you. You were just along for the ride. I'm sorry but I don't quite agree. Because even the simplest choice is still a choice. Something as simple as saying yes or no to something presented to you by powers beyond your control can still have a drastic effect on the course of your life. A guy steps on your lawn, you can either shoot him dead and spend the rest of your life in prison or you could choose not to shoot him and end up winning the lotto the next day. Whatever choice you make, it could be argued that everything that happens after that choice was a result of that choice. Nothing really happens in your life without your input, even if it's as simple as saying yes.

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That's a fair way of seeing things. I don't feel that I was passive. I always had a series of choices laid before me, and I feel I made good, possibly the best, pick from those choices before me. I'm also well aware that I had choices that I didn't seriously consider, which may also have turned out quite well. At every step, I did make a choice, but the truly meaningful ones were only available because of the actions of others...and all of those actions were, in some way, due to things I had done. My choice of grad school was based on a list given to me by my advisor, but I sought him out for those suggestions, and he didn't help me get accepted to them. That first real job was due to things I had no control over, but the job listing was recommended to me because the guy who sent it along thought well of me.

So, it goes both ways to a large extent, but I'm not fully in control. I can choose to walk through the door, and the door is open partly because of my actions, but never entirely because of my actions...in most cases. Of course, in this, as in pretty nearly everything else, you have to add the caveat that there are always exceptions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niya

I'll be honest, I wish I had Shaggy's super-positive outlook on life but unfortunately, I cannot. I dared to wonder what was behind the curtain and now I'm forever tainted....condemned to see the monsters lurking in every shadow. :(

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They don't exist. You are creating them.

If you think there are sinister forces out there bent on doing you harm...well, you're right about that, but they aren't intelligent. There isn't some global conspiracy. It's just people, and likely people who aren't as smart as you are. If you don't believe you are smart enough to orchestrate a conspiracy of the magnitude you are seeing, then don't believe it of other people, either. People can do horrible things to one another. They don't do it because of some over-arching plan, but usually by accident.

There is a case wending it's way through the Idaho courts about a couple kids. They disappeared a year or two back, then their bodies were discovered buried in the backyard of their stepfather. The mother and stepfather were going to be tried for murder, but at this point, the mother isn't thought mentally competent to stand trial. That's probably correct. The stepfather isn't all that stable, either, but the mother appears to have believed herself to be some kind of messianic figure, and the stepfather was either along for the ride, or supporting that view. The children were killed to save them.

Now, you might say that's crazy, and the courts currently would agree with you, but that IS the reality that those two (or at least the mother) are living. In this case, the result was considerable harm (there seem likely to have been two other murders, and possibly three or four, connected to this in some fashion), but what if there hadn't been? Perhaps we are all living in our own frantic delusions? We certainly don't all see the world the same way.

However, I am struck by the hopelessness that comes through with this "sinister world plot" point of view. Nobody has suggested that there is anything meaningful to be done about it. You do suggest that your life is worse for it, but not that there is anything useful to improve the situation. Perhaps you feel that you are better off knowing about it. That would be kind of a 'red pill' thing, like in the Matrix, with the notable distinction that in the movie, the whole point of the red pill was that there WAS something that could be done about it. Take that pill and you could be the 'special guy' with special skills, able to fight with the puppet masters and not responsible for any of your actions (cause those were just puppets that you killed or injured, and they didn't understand the reality that you lived in). Except that there's no red pill, no special skills, no real puppet masters, and no magic phone booth that whisks you out of the game so that you don't have to take responsibility for your actions. So, you get all the anxiety and the gloom and for what? As far as anybody knows, this IS the world we live in. The real world. It is what you make of it. The puppet masters don't exist. They're just people with the same strengths and weaknesses that you have...with perhaps a bit more money, but it's really just connections that they have. They pull strings and things happen because they have connections. My life is what it is because of the connections I have with other people, even with all of you. Form enough connections and you, too, can shift the world when you pull the strings.

That's what every powerful person has learned over all history: If you don't like something, lean in until you can change it.

Don't waste your time whinging on about the dark, malign, forces shaping the world. YOU are shaping the world, so long as you lean into it.

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Originally Posted by sapator

Frikin brains eaters...

So I was at work today and I had a mild catarrh and they told me to shove off for today, now I have a sore throat but I mean on the scale of 1-10 of how sick I feel I'm at 1.
So either that was from the frikin idiots that makes us wait in lines at 3 degrees for the rapid test or it's a simple flukus but must be the simplest flukus I've ever experienced or it's mr.O
If it's actually mr.O I have to ask?....That's aeit? That's fliking it? We are in lockdown for that?

P.S.I did not get vaccinated, to protect people from the vaxbie apocalypse.
Also I don't tend to be a lab rat. I don't get the benefit of those around me since vaxbies can catch and spread nicely. Unless that was a well hidden spam and I believe it was.

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Catarrh? Tell me about that word. I like it. I feel like I have seen it before, but not well enough to be sure whether it was a real word or just a typo, so I looked it up. Very nice. Etymology for the win!

Still, I'm not sure quite what you are complaining about. That isn't a COVID thing. Of course, it depends a whole lot on your work situation, but I would be taking a sick day if I had a catarrh (see, I used it). That would be for two reasons: 1) I wouldn't want to pass whatever on to anybody around me (and they wouldn't want me to, either), and 2) I have enough stuff to work on at home.

I haven't had a good cold since before COVID showed up. One of the side effects of this pandemic thing is that I'm just not around sick people anymore, so I'm not catching anything.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

So, it goes both ways to a large extent, but I'm not fully in control. I can choose to walk through the door, and the door is open partly because of my actions, but never entirely because of my actions...in most cases. Of course, in this, as in pretty nearly everything else, you have to add the caveat that there are always exceptions.

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Errr. You're kind of right here. Nothing you say here is false but I think it's very important to acknowledge that you yourself can take actions to give yourself choices that wouldn't have just been presented to you otherwise. Using your example of the your choice of where to get educated. Let's say someone was presented with a choice of going to some arbitrary University but they actually want to go to something like Yale. I believe it is entirely possible for this person to take a series of actions that will open up that choice for them. The only issue is are they willing to do what is necessary to obtain the outcome they want. This is essentially what I mean when I say we are solely responsible for what happens in our lives. We can have whatever we want as long as we are willing to do what it takes. I do not believe that a man cannot control his fate. He can if he has the grit to go after what he wants with unparalleled tenacity.

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Originally Posted by sapator

vaxbies

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For some reason, up until now, I've been reading this as vax-babies the whole time I lurked this thread. It always made me laugh because of how funny it sounded in my head lol.

Here's a little link to keep the spririts HIGH in this thread:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jnatprod.1c00946

In regards to fate and life aso. I do strongly think that we do have a lot of effect on how well or bad our life turns out. not necessarily by decisions that we make but rather by how we accept and see the things that happen to us. I do believe that we are more of a leaf in the wind rather than having control about things that happen in our lives. There might be terrible events happening to you but if you still manage to see the good things that are and the good things that may come out of the bad experiences, your life will turn out right. There is the saying “In the end everything is good. And if it’s not good, it is not yet the end”. If you experience miserable things and you can’t get out of the miserable feelings these things create in you, your life will be miserable and more miserable things will happen. There are always more sides to a thing than only one, you must learn to see these.

Gosh.

In the early pages this thread seemed more about becoming informed and staying safe and getting each other through this thing. Weird place we have come to.

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Originally Posted by Niya

Errr. You're kind of right here. Nothing you say here is false but I think it's very important to acknowledge that you yourself can take actions to give yourself choices that wouldn't have just been presented to you otherwise. Using your example of the your choice of where to get educated. Let's say someone was presented with a choice of going to some arbitrary University but they actually want to go to something like Yale. I believe it is entirely possible for this person to take a series of actions that will open up that choice for them. The only issue is are they willing to do what is necessary to obtain the outcome they want. This is essentially what I mean when I say we are solely responsible for what happens in our lives. We can have whatever we want as long as we are willing to do what it takes. I do not believe that a man cannot control his fate. He can if he has the grit to go after what he wants with unparalleled tenacity.

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Ok, good point. If your goal is X, and you are willing to do what it takes to achieve X, then you can get there. In the case of Yale, though, I doubt there is anything any one person can do to guarantee that outcome without connecting with a bunch of other people and leveraging those connections. Grades alone won't get you in there. Money, alone, probably won't either. Both would help, but neither is sufficient on their own. I have one uncle who went there, though (or possibly two, I can't remember), so I might have been able to try to leverage the legacy connection, which was always important for ivy league schools. So, who you are born to can help with THAT particular goal more effectively than hard work or money. Inheritance is alive and well in the US. By the way, I seem to remember reading in the last decade, or so, that legacy acceptance is in decline at ivy league schools. Of course, what happened in the last decade or so doesn't make much difference to me, since college was a long time further back.

For that goal, like so many, the connections you make are the key to the goal. You do have a considerable amount of influence on the connections you make, therefore you have considerable influence on the outcomes you achieve, but it's not through hard work. When you get right down to it, the harder I've had to work on a job (based on calories burned), the less I've been paid. I worked for two summers on a golf course (it was utterly hilarious, almost like CaddyShack levels....but that's a different story). That was mighty hard work many days, but I've never been paid less.

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Originally Posted by digitalShaman

In regards to fate and life aso. I do strongly think that we do have a lot of effect on how well or bad our life turns out. not necessarily by decisions that we make but rather by how we accept and see the things that happen to us. I do believe that we are more of a leaf in the wind rather than having control about things that happen in our lives. There might be terrible events happening to you but if you still manage to see the good things that are and the good things that may come out of the bad experiences, your life will turn out right. There is the saying “In the end everything is good. And if it’s not good, it is not yet the end”. If you experience miserable things and you can’t get out of the miserable feelings these things create in you, your life will be miserable and more miserable things will happen. There are always more sides to a thing than only one, you must learn to see these.

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Since everything is perfect in being what it is, one may well burst out in laughter.

Or something like that. It was a quote from somebody who was quoted by a friend of mine in our high school yearbook.

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Originally Posted by dilettante

Gosh.

In the early pages this thread seemed more about becoming informed and staying safe

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oh, it still is! haven't seen my link above? smoke more weed and you will be safe!

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Originally Posted by dilettante

and getting each other through this thing.

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and especially this is still true for this thread. "This thing" we all try to get through is just not the original disease anymore.

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I'm not denying your point though. There are big differences in cultures that someone from another culture cannot speak to personally. But when you speak of the generality of human ignorance such as believing in gods, demons, voodoo, etc. , you can speak about 95% of the population. Because it is true

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If that's what you believe, then fair enough. I have no idea what motivates 95% of the world population. I definitely don't believe there's one single motivation, so I'll continue to be amazed when people make such statements.

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Originally Posted by digitalShaman

"This thing" we all try to get through is just not the original disease anymore.

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Yes....we have stumbled upon the real disease now.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

I have no idea what motivates 95% of the world population.

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That's easy. It is self interest. Once you understand that, everything else falls into place.

All the problems start because we allow people to convince us that they are not driven by this base desire. They don't advertise all those "wonderful" products to you every chance they get because they like you and want to help, they do it because it will make them rich. Self interest governs every facet of human behavior.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Catarrh? Tell me about that word. I like it. I feel like I have seen it before, but not well enough to be sure whether it was a real word or just a typo, so I looked it up. Very nice. Etymology for the win!

Still, I'm not sure quite what you are complaining about. That isn't a COVID thing. Of course, it depends a whole lot on your work situation, but I would be taking a sick day if I had a catarrh (see, I used it). That would be for two reasons: 1) I wouldn't want to pass whatever on to anybody around me (and they wouldn't want me to, either), and 2) I have enough stuff to work on at home.

I haven't had a good cold since before COVID showed up. One of the side effects of this pandemic thing is that I'm just not around sick people anymore, so I'm not catching anything.

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No, I'm not complaining about the day off. The next time I need one I'll be sure to sneeze a couple of times outside HR door.Suddenly it will open and...GET OUUUUTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!
I've had days in the past that I was working with 38.5 fever so kicking me out for that was peculiar.

Vax-babies. Lol .

A nice fever can be quite entertaining.

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Originally Posted by Niya

That's easy. It is self interest. Once you understand that, everything else falls into place.

All the problems start because we allow people to convince us that they are not driven by this base desire. They don't advertise all those "wonderful" products to you every chance they get because they like you and want to help, they do it because it will make them rich. Self interest governs every facet of human behavior.

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What a sad view of the world. I see kindness and selflessness in many people.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

What a sad view of the world.

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I prefer an ugly truth over a pretty lie.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

I see kindness and selflessness in many people.

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Not enough people to make a meaningful difference.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Don't waste your time whinging on about the dark, malign, forces shaping the world.

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https://www.vbforums.com/showthread....=1#post5550854

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Originally Posted by Niya

I prefer an ugly truth over a pretty lie.



Not enough people to make a meaningful difference.

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No it seems you just prefer to believe people are ugly.

Most of the people I've met are not consumed by selfishness. Most people to some degree genuinely care others. They do make a meaning difference.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

No it seems you just prefer to believe people are ugly.

Most of the people I've met are not consumed by selfishness. Most people to some degree genuinely care others. They do make a meaning difference.

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How many of these people you've met are ruling the world?

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Originally Posted by Eduardo-

How many of these people you've met are ruling the world?

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That's a silly question. Niya sasid, "Self interest governs every facet of human behavior." So what does "ruling the world" have to do with anything. There are 8 billion people on this world. Are they all evil selfish bastards? Are you?