I'm not qualified to have an opinion on what you guys are discussing but I'd just like to say that I know native-English speaking people who say stuff like "Didn't you not?" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
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I'm not qualified to have an opinion on what you guys are discussing but I'd just like to say that I know native-English speaking people who say stuff like "Didn't you not?" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
No. That's not the same thing. I don't know what actual English professors would call this but saying something like not nothing, is basically negating a negative to get a positive. We wouldn't say speak like that. We wouldn't say that "there is not nothing over there". We would say "there something over there". This works in a spoken language like English but it's too ambiguous for a programming language. The computer don't just need to know if there is something there but it also needs to know what that something is. There is no sense in asking if there is something there if every single time you're going to follow up with asking what is there. It's more efficient to ask if there is a specific thing there since it also answers the question of whether something is there at the same time. This lack of a something concept in programming languages is why we negate nothing to represent something.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbrad
Think about it. Do you ever hear people say, "Is there not no in that coffee cup?" No, they would say, "Is there coffee in that cup?" The main point is that for English speakers at least, negating a negative is not something that comes naturally in our thought processes.
I hate to ask this, but for crying out loud guys, this is the only TwinBasic outlet here at vbforums - can we please keep it on topic? Or at least not turn it into a flamewar? It's time to look ahead, the past be darned.
Keep it on topic folks, and stay away from personal attacks.
I have deleted most of the posts from today (and a few from a couple of days ago).
Due to the large quantity of posts today, some valid things have also been removed - I didn't have time to edit multiple posts to keep the valid parts (but thankfully those parts seem to be implied by the posts that remain).
If you want to discuss things that aren't related to twinBasic, create another thread for that discussion - and avoid personal attacks.
In my opinion, apart from the personal attack on Niya's post, I have not seen any personal attacks on other posts in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by si_the_geek
Could you send me my deleted posts in a private message? I'll post those posts to another thread of Chit-Chat. Because Niya does not seem to intend to stop making trouble in the VB6 sub-forum, I think it is necessary to have a complete dialogue (or debate) with Niya.
To be fair to Niya he has been helpful with twinBASIC on this thread.Quote:
Because Niya does not seem to intend to stop making trouble in the VB6 sub-forum, I think it is necessary to have a complete dialogue (or debate) with Niya.
I don't think you are likely to ever convince him that VB6 is better than VB.Net but as he is now moving away from VB.Net (to C#) there seems little point in trying.
Of course, his discussion on the "Set" keyword is very meaningful.Quote:
Originally Posted by VB6 Programming
In my opinion, explaining to someone "VB6 is better than VB.Net" is a very strange and stupid thing. Obviously I will not do such a stupid thing. What I just want to explain to Niya is, don't provoke disputes on VB6-related threads, and stop repeating things that all VB6ers understand on VB6-related threads.
[ message redacted]
There were several, to varying degrees.Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly
No, that would be a waste of my time. Not only would they be out of context, but there were also some attacks in there.Quote:
Could you send me my deleted posts in a private message? I'll post those posts to another thread of Chit-Chat.
It is time for these off-topic posts to stop, keep this thread focussed on twinBasic.
Technically, you pretty much do. There hasn't been this much activity in OtherBASIC for a long time, but TwinBasic (seems like it ought to be TB, not tB) isn't the only driver of that. You can start as many threads as you see fit, and simply add "TwinBASIC:" into the subject line. That should be clear enough for anybody.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaynePhillipsEA
You don't speak American English. The proper phrase, and one which you do hear a LOT in the US, would be, "Ain't there no coffee in that cup?" If you turn the slang "ain't" into proper English, that sentence becomes: "Is not there no coffee in that cup?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
I would suggest, therefore, that "Ain't there no coffee in that cup?" is at least as bad as what you say you never hear, but it's in common usage. It's called a double negative. Peopled use them without thinking about the actual meaning, and they are quite common. Whether they use them as double negatives or not doesn't even matter. Speech is what we use it to be.
I'd be inclined to close this thread, but ONLY because I think it is time that people on here start using multiple threads for this topic. In some forums (at least .NET, but perhaps others), there is a means to prepend some information to the subject line. The same could be done here. At this time, there appears to be TwinBasic and RadBASIC which are both filling a similar niche. There is also RC6, but that looks like it is a full fledged reference in both TwinBASIC and VB6, and is not a stand alone, at this time.
Some of the posts over the last month have mentioned putting things in the VB6 forum because that's where the VB6 coders are. Why is that the case? The VB6 people are in the VB6 forum because that's where they stay. That forum is for VB6. I would say that TwinBASIC and RadBASIC are not VB6 and don't belong there, but they are the most vibrant, active, new forms of BASIC in existence. You should take over this forum for those languages, and I suspect we could help out a very small amount by adding those prepend labels. I say that this would help out a very small amount because they are rarely used anywhere else, so it seems kind of a forlorn hope to expect that they would be used here. Furthermore, you don't need them to be added to use them. Just start the topic with "TB:" or "TwinBASIC:", or even "[TwinBASIC]".
The key question then would be whether or not people start coming here. If enough do, then a forum would make sense. Furthermore, there wouldn't be quite the need for the pruning that Si was doing on this thread.
So: Start more threads in here. Prepend the language you are using, or we could possibly add that feature (I haven't asked, so I don't know what it entails). Show us that, if you build it, they will come. There is nothing saying you have to stick with just one thread.
So let me get this straight. Olaf makes an unnecessary attack on a very innocent suggestion peter made and because I called it out, I'm the bad guy? You know, some of you are really starting to rub me the wrong with with your lack of integrity. You know, even when I vehemently disagreed with you guys on some things, I always tried by best not to be disrespectful. I think .Net and everything that came after it is superior to VB6, yet every time I say it, all of you get up in your feelings, lash out and then claim I'm the bad guy. I'm getting real tired of being diplomatic about it. MY VIEWS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, MY OPINION OF YOU OR YOUR WORTH AS A HUMAN BEING. They are just tools and I have strong opinions that one is better than the other. Stop getting in your feelings over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchingDataOnly
There's more to come. I'm doing some light work in C#/Xamarin right now. When I'm done with that, I wanna finish up what I was doing in TwinBASIC.Quote:
Originally Posted by VB6 Programming
What if "Other Basic" was moved from "Other languages" to just under "VB6 and earlier".
Even without all the current interest in TwinBasic and Radbasic, it might be a more appropriate location for it anyway
The subforum currently occupying that spot hasn't had a post since last October. Does it deserve to still be "above the fold"?
I understand you mean something like the Codebank.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbrad
FWIW I agree that more people would visit the Other BASIC sub-forum if it was "inside" VB6 and earlier.
But technically it wouldn't be totally correct. I think, to be "correct" it should be something like "Other BASIC derived from VB6" or "Other BASIC compatible with VB6" or something like that.
Also, I want to highlight that some people are coming now to the "Other BASIC" sub-forum because they are receiving notifications by e-mail of new posts on the threads (that's how I am coming) and not because the Other BASIC sub-forum became popular overnight.
Anyway, about myself I wouldn't mind to come to the Other BASIC sub-forum from time to time to see if there is something new as I do now for VB6 and earlier, but don't know about others.
"Better" is always subjective. Is VB.Net, the language "better" than VB6? It depends... VB.Net - the language - is objectively more advanced. It has a unified type system, generics, overloads, delegates. But it's also further away from the metal. There's a VM in the mix, complete with generational garbage collection. For any given use-case, perhaps that's the best fit, perhaps not.
VB6 is "better" in that it compiles to native Win32. No massive framework to depend on or tow around. Simple, deterministic memory management. It can do inline assembly.
This is why I love (and bought into) the concept of twinBASIC - modern source constructs but native code. It's something that .Net (despite several attempts) hasn't ever achieved. It might be better*
*No such thing.
Hi EduardoQuote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo-
I wasn't really thinking of "inside" [VB6 and earlier] but underneath it, where [Universal Windows Platform and Modern Windows Experience] is now.
Regarding the emails, those are only sent to people who already posted on those threads. New visitors may never see them with [Other Basic] being
so far down the pecking order.
Anyway it was just a thought.
Yes, that was my point of the sudden "popularity" of Other BASIC (probably).Quote:
Originally Posted by vbrad
Ah, OK, I misunderstood your pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo-
When I say VB6, I'm talking about about language, IDE and the runtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by mansellan
Anyways, I could go in on this but I've already done so many times before so I'm not going to prolong this discussion and derail this thread any further. This is not an attack on you or anything by the way. It's just that I think I've said all I had to say on the topic over the years. There is very little I could say now that would be new information. Everyone should use what they like but what someone likes doesn't change facts. That's all I'm saying. There are tools, frameworks and languages that I think are better in a lot of regards than Microsoft's .Net tools and I have no problem admitting that I'm using an inferior tool. For example, I think Flutter might be a far better platform for creating Android applications than Xamarin/C# but I will still use Xamarin. I just prefer to use it for now since I'm far more familiar with the tech, not because I think it's better. But if I intend to go into Android development seriously, I will use the best tool for the job. None of this is emotional for me. There is no loyalty with me when it comes what tools to use. I used to be like that but as I got older I realized that it is foolish to be too attached to specific tools just because you love them.
I think over the years, I just became a lot more objective about evaluating things like this. Most people can't be that objective which I think is the source of all the contention here.
That's a good idea. Please repost this suggestion in the Forum Feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbrad
Perfectly said. I also personally believe that we need to use the best tool available for a task in the market. In my case I prefer using B4A instead of any other mobile development tools when it comes to developing apps for Android platform.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
I will just narrate a small incidence. A few years back we started developing a product called AlbumSense (now split into two products AlbumSense and PhotoSense) for a client in VB6. We studied PhotoDemon's code and borrowed quite a lot from it, but as we progressed in our development we started running into problems especially performance related problems in image processing.
So after spending around 4 months on development in VB6. But we had to ditch it and switch to Delphi as it has all the things (read components) that we want. And it was finalized that we want to give one single executable of the software instead of shipping a plethora of supporting libraries (DLLs), etc. with it.
We completed the product development in record time and our client is selling it like hot cakes for a while now.
During the phase when we switched from VB6 to Delphi we had a lot of problem finding assistant codes who knew Pascal. And it was as this time that we got the idea of creating a development tool that will have a huge library of components/controls (over time) and that would allow one to program in multiple languages in the same project and thus was born MixLangz.
Thanks Shaggy Hiker, I'm glad that you agree! I'll do that right away!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Well there you go. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by IndicSoftware
Way back when, I preferred Delphi over c/c++ as at the time I was a Pascal 'expert' - and it did have all those components. I also preferred Borland c/c++ over Microsoft - until I was forced to use Microsoft... Borland is now Embarcadero but their c++ compilers still have all those components. Pity they don't do a free 'Community' version - just a trial version.
Removed...
For Christ's sake blokes. Can you not keep a thread on track? You are honestly all on your own agendas here and each seems to be focussed on solely attempting to win a spurious and pointless argument or poking others to respond.
We know how you feel already. Honestly, can you please let it go and let TwinBasic be the point of discussion on a TwinBasic thread?
See my signature and add your own name to that list and let's move on!
I'm from an authoritarian country and I'm trying to experience the taste of democracy. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber
Free speech doesn’t mean you have to say everything you think.
Just to let you know, the spacebar should now be confirming the intellisense option as of v0.10.4966 of tB.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTn
twinBASIC status update:
https://nolongerset.com/twinbasic-up...ugust-22-2021/
Wow thanks, that was quick! I will take a look tonight to see the progress, I'm working out installer kinks at the moment with msm files.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaynePhillipsEA
Things are going better than I hoped on both projects. Thank you for keeping VB6 compatibility a high priority.
Yes, it does confirm the selected intellisense. Except, it does not auto-select the closest match. I have to use arrow keys to select, then type spacebar.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaynePhillipsEA
In VB6 i can type the letters:
We get Me.Width.Code:If me.wi {spacebar}
The word is autocompleted very fast and fluidly. This is important for the flow of human writing, especially when the words are longer.
Still, this is a big improvement for tB. Good work getting that sorted.
If you're still around Wayne I wanted to make another minor suggestion. String interpolation. Here's an example of how it works in VB.Net:-
Output:-Code:Dim name As String = "Kathy"
Dim age As Integer = 14
Dim address As String = "121 Pine Street"
Debug.WriteLine($"{name} is {CStr(age)} years old. She lives at {address}.")
This feature is such a huge help when dealing with Strings in VB.Net. It would be nice if TwinBASIC had something like this if it doesn't already.Code:Kathy is 14 years old. She lives at 121 Pine Street.
Currently there is a community version of C++ Builder available. Please have a look at this.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kaud
Thanks Niya. Yes, string interpolation has been discussed and is planned, see https://github.com/WaynePhillipsEA/twinbasic/issues/132Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Episcopal
I agree
Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
twinBASIC status update:
https://nolongerset.com/twinbasic-up...ugust-29-2021/
Highlights include Unit Testing support, conditional breakpoints, the Nz() function, and various IntelliSense improvements.