Times of War Development Team

I've got a question... You're in a team, do you switch players and control all of them yourself, or are the other team members controlled via AI?

I THINK you are talking about allies in single player games? I think it's best if they were controlled by the AI.

Also, Jorj and I have worked and worked and got a general system for the bandits. It goes like this: There are 0 - 2 bandit camps around the map at the start. Each player starts with a leader unit (basically a normal unit with a name and pumped up stats), peasants and a caravan (stores your resources on-the-go) and then you would go and build your base. Then the bandits and raiders would go and do a hit-and-run to get more resources (gold mostly) so that would make you get a good army in the start game.

Just our thoughts.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about, I would think it best be controlled by AI too, the player controlling each member would be hard to play and hard to code...

Quote:

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Also, Jorj and I have worked and worked and got a general system for the bandits. It goes like this: There are 0 - 2 bandit camps around the map at the start. Each player starts with a leader unit (basically a normal unit with a name and pumped up stats), peasants and a caravan (stores your resources on-the-go) and then you would go and build your base. Then the bandits and raiders would go and do a hit-and-run to get more resources (gold mostly) so that would make you get a good army in the start game.

---

Sounds great!

Speaking of AI...

Here is a beginning of an AI Script. It would select a starting location and build a town square and three houses.

Enjoy!

I have statements regarding naval and siege warfare coming soon.

I can't work any more on the AI Build List until I get a full, current list of either units, buildings, or technologies. As far as I know, none of these are ready, so I'll just write the rules for now.

Everything is looking good from what i am seeing. I am going to have a lot of work to do when i get back =).

On bandits, the camps might not want to be actually on the map, because the maps still wont be all that big, but every map should fit into a part of the world (ie, its a continuous world), and some maps might have bandits on them. Other ideas might be a Baldur's Gate approach, where we only deal with a part of the entire world in the game, and the bandits are on various maps of an area.

On scripts: Scripts will be compiled. This means that they will have to be written in low level code (ASM-ish), so that each operation can be assigned to a single number. This should be no problem, even for you non-programmers, if you want to give it a try. A sample script might look something like this:

Code:

---

var DWORD x
mov x 10
echo x
mul x 10
echo 10

..output..
10
100

---

Also, let me know if anyone might have a use for strings in a script.

Z.

I can help on the script interpreter thing... I just need more info on it...

BTW, just out of curiosity, how much ASM do you know?

Can I Do Anything At All To Help ?

PsyVision: Do you know if we are going to be doing the script interpreter thing in VB? C++? Inside a DLL?

I think (and I know Jorj will agree with me) that making scripts like that would be too much work. Since Jorj wants to make these scripts, I say we have a preprocessor change Jorj's scripts into what you want them to look like. Right now, this is the template we have:

Code:

---

$unit=marksman
$player=red
# this is a comment
# $ defines the default for a category. If no unit, player, etc. is selected they will be taken from this list. If there is no default then it will cause an error.

---

Then you can just look at the rest of Jorj's AI script...

Psy and Dennis when Zaei's new engine is finished he'll give it to you guys to make an OpenGL port. (make sure this is compatible with VB we're still doing everything else in it!)

ok, eek shall have to talk to parks bout that, com shall prob be needed.

COM? Oh, I'll have to read up on that..!

Psy: You're talking 'bout Mike(Parks), right? He doesn't know COM :(

I do have a friend though, who is pretty good in COM and he can help me out a bit..

On ASM: a little, but enough to do basic things. I use it for the menu system, so that you can specify a function to be executed on a menu click.

On the engine design: Sas, what exactly do you want the engine to do? Why does it need to tie into VB? This is probably the most important quesiton ive asked.

On the scripts: The reason scripts need to be in an ASM-ish form is because walking through uncompiled scripts takes a long time. For example, drawing 25 lines on a picture box using the Win32API, from a script takes about as much time as drawing 25 lines on a picture box in vb using the .Line command, with a "Sleep 25" and a "DoEvents" in between each. What we can do though is to use Jorj's version for pre-game startup stuff.


I should have an engine design finished at some point (ive been pretty busy). All components will have a "lifetime" value so that they will be removed from memory at the correct time. All objects will use a system similar to the current PSystem, so we will be able to set a function to be performed every game tick, in addition to what is actually in that update.


Z.

Well I was thinking about having the Engine be in C++ and everything else in VB but it would be too complicated... and yes before the game it will load the scripts and process them, I think it'll take about 5 seconds per script on a decent computer.

hey, i have got MSN to work again, i have had a virus that is blocking me though my cleaner cant get rid of it. So, i have a new username, so i can get you all back on my list my new name is:

[email protected]

this one now works unlike my old one which the virus is being gay over.

I'll scan the acolyte tomorrow and should be coming to a mail
service near you if not Ill post it here. Dont forget when units
die they rot in a decaying order, from flesh to skeleton and then disapear.

That's definately going to happen.

hey, could I help with the AI?

Do you know C++? If not, you can work on AI Algorithms. Because if you've waded through the ten pages, we've decided to use C++ for the game.

But sure, help is always accepted!

I'm just starting to learn it, I can only help with the AI Algorithms.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

Um....

When was the C++ executive decision made ?

Please people let us know what u think of that, i personally think its a good idea (speed, language advantages etc) BUT!!! Do we loose and non C++ programmers.

Just a lil scare but all should be ok.

Who's on the AI development?

Jorj is right now, you may want to talk or email him. His mail is [email protected] if you didn't know.

I'll post the new, improved AI file soon. It, in my opinion, can handle the first part of the game.

Another thing-

Tactics or Formations
(These would probably have to be researched)

From simplest to most comlplicated to research:

Companies (no movement penalties)

XX XX XX XX XX
XX XO OO OX XX


Shieldwall (bonus to defence, must turn whole formation to move)

OOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOO


Swine Array (bonus to damage, small movement penalties)

XX
XXOOXX
XXXO OXXX
XXX XXX


Any more suggestions?

I have implemented a menu system into our website. I'll post an example of the menu in a second.

I'm doing the website now. It will be up soon at http://crystal-rain.cjb.net.

Im back from my vacation (finally). Several long (possibly sleepless) nights of coding will commence later.

Just wanted to let every one know.

Z.

Uhh.. Sas... Whats with the web site?

Z.

This is something that i have always been annoyed with in every RTS i have ever played. You can't plan out an attack. You can send in troops, but you cant coordinate them. So, for our game, i think you should be able to assign units into groups, with a number, or other symbol, etc, and then be able to give them a path to follow. You should be able to set paths for several groups before any of them move. Then, just hit a "GO!" button, and the attack commences.

Z.

1st: Finally ;). Many sleepless nights it is :D.
2nd: I haven't uploaded.
3rd: That sounds really good.

ALARMING!!! What the heck! It's too bad they hacked it when there was nothing there :D

That's odd...

"American Simpletons!"

Why is it that all things written in English are automatically American? Oh, well. I guess it was a safe bet on their part. Most are.

I agree wholeheartedly with Zaei about the co-ordination. I think that strategy and tactics should be balanced. We haven't seen much of strategy per se in strategy games, just tactics (formations, et cetera) Excelente!

For all of the C++ programmers working on the project, using the new engine will deal with a lot of Handles. Ideally, you will never actually have to use a pointer directly to an object. The System has a Register function that returns a Handle to an object it holds in memory, and also sets the pointer you pass it to NULL. Let me know what you think of this arrangement. I think it will work well.

Z.

The website is back to http://times.of.war.tripod.com/ though I'll change the redir site to be that one ( http://crystal-rain.cjb.net/ ). I'll cya guys tomorrow, it's getting late.

TO ALL MEMBERS of CRYSTAL RAIN (thats you guys ;)):
http://www.cjb.net/ -> Manage Account.
[crystal-rain] [*password*] [Email Aliases[\/]]

Email me at [email protected] for the password. (the one we usually use right now)
Then type in your desired name and your email address.

Voila! Now you have your own Crystal-Rain email account. Just use your normal mail server. All emails sent to an invalid email alias will be sent to [email protected] and that is our team's email account. It also has a password you can get from me.

For example I have mine set up at:
[email protected]
[email protected]

You might have yours at:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

And I have another:
[email protected]

So these are the email aliases I want you guys to use the ones in the second list, although you can change them. I'll list them all in the contact us menu item (I made a DHTML menu *giddiness*)

So that's all for the updates, make sure to register your alias now.

Sas, I replied to your list of stuff for the engine. Check your email.

Z.

Here are some important links for the Times of War development team:

Note: It's interesting how many people also mused over the idea of having units that don't 'pop out' of buildings, such as Times of War.

http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=53840
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=53945
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=51826
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=48424
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=46869
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=40271
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=40235
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=36830
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=35813
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=33895
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...topic_id=33171
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20.../pinter_01.htm
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/de...k/19981120.htm
http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html

HereiIs what I, personally, feel about some of the issues discussed above. The team may feel differently, but here is my opinion:

Command: I don't know if I like the idea of people misinterpreting their orders. It will lead to too much confusion and frustration.

Unit Integrity: See Command.

Morale: I definitely agree with its inclusion, but I don't think people with low morale would refuse their orders. I think (see bandits and rebels post) they should abandon your cause.

Logistics: Times of War is moving toward a logistical system from the resource systems of the past by making units eat. I think any more realism (supply lines) would be too much for this game.

Irregular Warfare: Definitely! Spies and diplomats and saboteurs, oh my!

Campaign Thinking: Good idea, but I'm not sure how it would be implemented.

Land Production: I think there should be good and bad locations for farms (percentage). The potential crop production would be multiplied by that percentage. When land is walked over it becomes worse for farming (percentage drops).

Strategic Terrain: I think high ground should impart benefits such as in Age of Kings. I'm not sure if strategic cover would work, though.

Experience: Perhaps this is too much like an RPG.

Über-units: I think that such units, if existant, should be astronomically expensive, or irremediably slow, or be as frail as glass.

Skirmish Mode: Good randomisation is required, as well as multiple modes. I also like the idea of scoring whenever the player exits.

AI: I would like being able to customise my opponents (imperialist land-grabber, researcher, horde attacker, et cetera)

Unit Creation: I think that the game should be customisable through 'mods'. The reason that Age of Kings' modification community was not as active as it should have been was because of the lack of included unit, building, technology, and civilisation creators. We should definitely try to include those.

Territorial Expansion: This should be the driving force in the game. I mean the individual multi- or singleplayer level. People should be constantly in conflict (not necessarily difficult conflict).

Rush Stopping: Early defensive units or structures seem good...

Individual Upgrades: This is one on the principles that Times of War was born on. It must be included!!! (if at all possible... please?)

Buildings as Tactical Objectives: Maybe too revolutionary, but it could work.

Devaluing Resources: To do this, I think units could loot other players, as to increase the emphasis on strategy and tactics.

One Big Map: Is this even possible? I only wish...

Unit Commands: (fourth link) Sounds reasonable, but I like the traditional way better.

Preventing Usual Strategies: We should make people care about their units. Units are a resource too. You must train a peasant to get a knight.

Fog of War: I think the terrain should be uncovered, but the unit positions should not. Perhaps you could pay a hefty fee and a random enemy unit would give you his field of view. But how to counter this?

Overpowered Ranged Units: Solution: Cavalry

Siege Units: People should be required to power them. It would be more realistic that way.

Damage Types: Archers cannot destroy a house unless their arrows are on fire.

Ammuntion: To simplify things, I think there should be unlimited ammunition.

Customisable Controls: Not my domain.

Final opinion:
The Art of War by Sun Tzu must be taken into consideration when creating Times of War.

Sorry about my post length, but I believe Polonius to be wrong when he said "brevity is the soul of wit."

Luminous Additive -> Light Source and using a logical ADD operation to show.

hey men, i need some **** to work on.