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I know that the subject is difficult, but it is not the same to do something because you have fear (that it is an emotion) than if you do something because you understand it is convenient.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
If you do something because you believe it is the best to do, there is no fear.
To fear in a case like that, is not the best.
No after two years in the pandemic. You had already time to make it rational and not in fear.
How's the spread of Covid in your country these past few days? We've had relatively low no. of new infections for weeks now. I am not sure if Omicron is something to be concerned of, there is at least 3 Omicron cases here so far.
Here it is rising now, I believe it is Delta.
I'm not sure people are keeping up on this. Delta is rapidly being replaced here by Omicron.
https://public.tableau.com/views/Var...viz_share_link
No surprise, just as with previous variants it correllates 100% with UK air travel.
OANN is for lightweights, QAnon is where you find the truth.
:mad: In 2017 Fauci said "The will be a surprise outbreak".Quote:
Originally Posted by baka
Similar to Gates.
Or they are prophets, or they knew already.
Or may be they have a time machine. There are several possibilities.
Which one makes more sense?
If it was I'd watch a hell of a lot more of it. My you Tube is basically wall to wall kittens and puppies.Quote:
That's why news isn't just about puppies
One America News is not a news channel, it's an opinion channel and the opinions are deep, dark crazy. That's not a good choice of source if you want to make your point. Incidentally, there are similar opinion channels on the Left and I don't find them any more palatable, though I can't think of any as extremely lopsided as OAN off the top of my head (though I wouldn't deny their existence either). There are, of course, plenty of perfectly credible news sources out there - but only if don't declare that everything that challenges the conspiracy is part of the conspiracy.
We've got doubling every 2 to 3 days - the rate is pretty staggering.Quote:
How's the spread of Covid in your country these past few days?
Thankfully, early indicators from South Africa are that hospitalisations are about 10% of Delta. If that holds true then services should be able to cope. I spoke to an epidemiologist friend of mine, though, who did add a few caveats. Basically, we're still in the lag so it's only really data from SA that we can relay on and their hospitalisation rates could be low for two reasons. 1. They have a young demographic with better natural immunity and 2. they had a very bad delta spike recently and that could have built up a well of immunity in the community. His take was basically, it's looking good and we can afford to be optimistic but we won't truly understand the situation for a week or two yet.
On a tangential note, I'm reversing my previous position on Boris's Teflon properties. After the North Shropshire by election he's going to be facing a leadership contest before the spring. The Tories eat the wounded.
https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/h...%20Dossier.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo-
If they were sensible enough to have orchestrated a world wide epidemic I doubt they would have been stupid enough to then announce it publicly beforehand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo-
its a human weakness.
some people love to boost, to show off, they are bad at shutting their mouth.
not everybody have discipline.
Fauci have been doing this for more than 30 years, and he have been part of the "research" to weaponize corona virus in the 90's.
he like to shine, to feel that he has achieved something in his life, its a human thing.
that we can see in many people, but not all. those that are in the dark, behind the curtains, those are the one to be scared of.
Fact checking Dr David Martin. Didn't require much effort. He's not a medical doctor, by the way. He's a financial analyst and self help guru.
You know how you keep insinuating that people are profiteering off of Covid? Well that's Dr David Martin.
I'm beginning to regret that you left the EU.
We are having so much fun lately :D
Ha, we're all beginning to regret that too:rolleyes:
if you are only listening to one side, how can you know that your side is not lying to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
I always have a critical approach, but that doesn't mean I will discard controversy.
reading Dr Martin PDF (that I shared up there) u should read it with open mind, it could be BS, it could be all manipulation, it could be that only parts are true, other exaggerated or whatever. even so, if we always say "its another conspiracy" it will just give the people in power a lot easier to get away with **** they do.
but the same could be said to everything else. to what the president is saying, a scientist, a news channel, a documentary.
who knows how much is truth and how much is manipulation.
when you stop to have a critical mind to the "side" you "think" you belong, is also when you stop trying. you let it go.
you think this is a "us vs you" thing? no, its about yourself and your own belief, to not close yourself to what the other side is saying.
when you say "this is another BS", you also close your own growth.
people think they know everything and they base facts on the narrative they get from media or from rumors from people around them, this without any critical approach.
you should always see in yourself, and evaluate your own thoughts and belief. that doesn't mean you will reach the truth, but it will at least make you a seeker of the truth and not the protector of someone else lie or agenda.
He has no medical training. He's been profiting by undermining medical science to sell his unproven self help therapies and his You Tube channel. He's been debunked by the scientific community. You can continue to accept what he's saying if you like but I don't think that demonstrates critical thinking.
its not about accepting. u don't read and want to understand. thats a typical one-sided thinking.
but, Im not deluding myself. thats what the government wants, people blindly believing in their lies.
its like you think they are not moving a finger when they see someone trying to ruin them.
they are transparent, let you see all the documents, they reveal all information so that you know exactly whats going on.
while you keep defending them......
I'm not defending anybody.
I am pointing out that the sources you've chosen to cite are clearly flawed, and it's clear why. Just as Eduardo is, you're starting with you're conclusion and looking for evidence to support it. You wanted to conclude that Dr Fauci is a fraud so you went looking for a scientist who would state that Dr Fauci is a fraud. What you missed was that the scientist you found wasn't even a scientist, that they've debunked by the scientific community and that they have a clear profit motive for spreading miss-information. You could have found all of this for yourself via a 10 minute google search but you didn't bother to undertake even that low bar of rigour.
Edit> Now lets address the Von del Lyons. As you pointed out, Ursula Von De Lyon does have a conflict of interest. This is not unusual, it crops up in politics all the time. This would only be insidious if she didn't declare that conflict of interest, which she did. Now, you can possibly argue that that conflict of interest is so large that it makes her unable to carry out her job. Or you could argue that she has exploited that conflict of interest to enrich herself at the expense of her office and those she serves. You have not made either case.
Who knows, I admit that this is a point (and I have thought about it), but some people feel very unpunished.Quote:
Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp
They didn't say "we are going to free a new hazardous virus that we are working on now", they just said "there will be an epidemic".
It is the same that they are saying right now: that there will be other pandemics, like giving the idea of in the near future.
The same for Event 201.
I thought: they can't be so stupid. But, who knows, nothing happened to them so far.
Does it need someone to be "insinuating" that?Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
It is like insinuating that Facebook is profiting from advertising. Or that MS is profiting from software.
And being "debunked" by a paid group (to say what the are paid to say) is something good or bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
The scientific community is not now what it used to be, or supposed to be.
PS: I have not idea about who is Dr David Martin.
I'm thinking we have reached a new "acceptable level of death" related to this. When I say "we" I'm referring to the people that have downplayed it from the beginning, refuse to mask, and refuse to vaccinate. I think they are just fine we the death rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
I'm thinking we have reached a new "acceptable level of death" related to this. When I say "we" I'm referring to the people that have downplayed it from the beginning, refuse to mask, and refuse to vaccinate. I think they are just fine with the death rate where it is at.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
So???? Scientist in these fields have been warning us of this for many many years. And COVID isn't the first to prove them correct. Gates has been working within this community to help fight the spread of disease also for many many years.Quote:
They didn't say "we are going to free a new hazardous virus that we are working on now", they just said "there will be an epidemic".
But somehow because there's a quote from them saying "there will be an epidemic" it has some sinister meaning.
There's a big difference between, profiting and profiteering. All companies goal is to make a profit.Quote:
It is like insinuating that Facebook is profiting from advertising. Or that MS is profiting from software.
I think you might be a perfect example of why you shouldn't listen to people who are known frauds. You might like what they're saying and find a way to convince yourself it's true and then start finding a way to justify ignoring the actual qualified experts.Quote:
its not about accepting. u don't read and want to understand. thats a typical one-sided thinking.
What the difference in the science community now from what it use to be. What knowledge or experience do you have to make this claim. I hope it's more than one article about 20 scientist that supposable got paid to sign a letter. I've never heard about it and don't know if it's true. Even if it is true, I wouldn't say that's enough to condemn the whole community. I'd say scientist getting paid to claim something has been happening for a long time. Luckily there plenty of other scientist willing to call out the lies.Quote:
And being "debunked" by a paid group (to say what the are paid to say) is something good or bad?
The scientific community is not now what it used to be, or supposed to be.
I don't think it would cause me any great trouble....except for that bit about losing smell. I'm not saying that I smell great now....ehhh, I'll just leave that there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
Anyways, smell has a lot to do with taste. Taste has a lot to do with enjoying food. I enjoy food. Losing smell would make my life worse. That is a concern. Other than that, I got vaccinated for the people around me. I'm not worried about me, I'm worried about them. I don't want to be part of the problem.
If you go back through history, you will likely find somebody saying the same thing at least as far back as the 80s. You might not find that kind of stuff from before the 60s or 70s, but you'll certainly find it back until then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo-
Pandemics are inevitable, and they have always happened. Because we have only been looking for zoonoses for a relatively short amount of time, it is virtually guaranteed that ANY outbreak will be a 'surprise outbreak'. Epidemiologists have been fretting about each zoonotic episode as being 'the big one' since at least the 90s (probably earlier, I just might not have been paying much attention to that in the 80s...and I really wasn't in the 70s).
When you predict a likely event to happen, eventually you will be right. Whenever the stock market drops, there's somebody crowing about how they predicted it. My response has always been, "yeah, how about all the OTHER predictions you made?"
Glad you said it twice. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
It feels to me like the "we" group is starting to include a lot of people that have stopped fighting. They wear their mask, get vaccinated but have given up on fighting the people that don't. That group would include me. My stance now is, people by now have made their choice and nothing is going to change their decision. It's a convenient way to think. But it's still hard for me to ignore all the deaths that could be avoided.
I can't argue with believers.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
Weighing different positions objectively does not mean that you give equal weight to every point of view. Doing so would be insane. If I were to tell you that 1+1 = 1, you shouldn't weight that the same as somebody who tells you that 1+1 = 2. In that case, you might take the time to conduct your own experiment to decide whether I am right or wrong. You can't always conduct experiments, though. In those cases, you need to consider the evidence behind each claim. Can you evaluate the evidence behind each claim? Well, you can't evaluate the evidence behind MY claim, because I haven't given any. You might have to do a bit of research to evaluate the evidence behind the competing claim (that the answer is 2), and you might find that evidence quite compelling. If you then decide that the answer really IS 2, then what do you make of me saying that it is 1?
If you are keeping an open mind, then do you say, when asked what 1+1 equals, that you don't know? Or do you weight the evidence that you found, which is substantial, more highly than the fact that there is a second answer, and therefore say that the answer is 2? Or do you say, "the experts all say that the answer is 2, but here's this other answer saying that it is 1...and I don't trust the experts, so I'll say it is 1"?
None of those paths are best, but some of them are pretty nearly insane.
Yeap, because most probably things like that were already happening at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
And before the 80's too.
Now it takes another level because of the technology.
Like everything, it could be used for good, or for bad.
And bad people use anything (technology or whatever) for bad. That how the world has always worked.
Pandemics are rare events, read history.Quote:
Pandemics are inevitable
And less, if the technology was used to prevent them instead of to produce them.
You can predict that a big asteroid will crash to the Earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
If you wait millions years you will be right, almost for sure.
The thing is to "predict" something today, and that it happens in three years.
That's being lucky... too lucky.
But of course, that why I think that it is more plausible that these kind of people (the same kind that for profiting with what they sell, leave dying millions of people saying that Ivermectin does not work when it does) are doing it for some purpose and not that they just were "lucky".
And it wasn't one, but several ones of them that were announcing a pandemic in later years.
Being pandemics rare events in history, they must form a club of prophets.
They only can do what they are doing because people is too credulous.
I can't understand that, but that's the way it works obviously.
Since it seems we already started going in circles, and I can't grab new ideas or something to reason to try to go further in my thinking, I think I'll go out of the thread for now.
What we talked in later days I think was useful for me.
My symptoms were fever, light sensitivity and joint pains. The entire ordeal lasted only 3 days and I recovered using normal everyday household non-prescription medication. I didn't even know it was Covid until long after I recovered. I though it was just some mild flu or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Going in circles is what we do best here :cool:
Shaggy did not specify, so get your correction now! 1+1 = 10 . :wave:
what I dont understand is how people believe in the government.
when in time, and in history the government was working for the benefit of the working man?
it has always been for the elite, for the benefit of the rich and powerful.
not even in the early days of industrial age it was about the working man, it was how to control him so he will not move away.
we need labor, and now they emigrate. how to stop it?
well, by creating something called "nationalism" and by introducing school for everybody, not to teach them to be intelligent or because they where generous, but to be able at early age indoctrinate the children so they learn how to behave and be part of the "nation".
all this "nationalism" is part to control people.
globalization, individuality, freedom are things that was "promised" to the working man to keep him in place.
now, they see that its not good anymore, theres no money to keep up with the carrot. something need to be done. and this is what.
maybe hard to see, maybe not clear at the moment, but thats the agenda.
virus? terrorism? war? it doesn't matter, what matters are to control people and make them do what is beneficial for the elite families and groups. and they use whatever means.
Nope. Pandemics that impact the whole world are rare. Pandemics with a large death toll are rare. Pandemics are not rare. We've already had a couple this century, and we're only a few decades into it. You just aren't counting the ones that haven't touched you. Ebola counted. SARS COV-1 counted. The first was terribly contagious, but far TOO lethal. You died before you had a chance to spread it far and wide, so it remained pretty well contained. People were totally freaked out by it, too, which helped keep it contained. SARS was easy to contain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo-
What technology is that? We have antibiotics, which work against bacteria. We have no truly effective antivirals that come anywhere close to filling the role that antibiotics do, but for viruses. We have vaccines. They are here, and people fear them. They also don't work if taken after you are already sick (the way antibiotics do) We have masks, which are useless unless worn...and we won't wear them. Lastly, we have snake oil. We've ALWAYS had snake oil. It doesn't work, but we keep on taking it.Quote:
And less, if the technology was used to prevent them instead of to produce them.
As for the technology causing them...yeah, right. That's paranoia. Even if you feel that we did create the virus, the technology didn't exist 20 years ago, let alone in the 80s or 90s. These days, it's relatively cheap to sequence your entire DNA. We got the blueprint for COVID in short order. Back around 2000, it was a herculean task to sequence a single genome. In the 90s, it was only a dream.
No, it really isn't. For one thing, it isn't a rare event. It's like predicting the stock market will fall by 1000 points in a day. Yeah, that rarely happens. It HAS happened, though. I think it has happened a couple times this century. So, if I were to say that the DOW is going to drop 1000 points in a day at some point in the future. That's not much of a prediction. Of course it will come true. If I pick a day three years out and say it will happen on that day, then sure, that would be pretty improbable. But to say that it will drop by 1000 points, that's nothing. Frankly, I think that will happen next summer. If I'm right, that doesn't mean that I caused it. Better yet, nobody would believe that I caused it, but some people would believe that I have some kind of 'gift'. It's only slightly improbable to say that there will be a one day 1000 point drop in the next year. It's not at all improbable if I say that there will be a 1000 point drop.Quote:
You can predict that a big asteroid will crash to the Earth.
If you wait millions years you will be right, almost for sure.
The thing is to "predict" something today, and that it happens in three years.
That's being lucky... too lucky.
There are people predicting that we will be hit by asteroids all the time. The difference here is that you went looking for people who made the prediction AFTER the event happened, and then noted the correlation. At that point, the probability that the event would happen has become 1.
Every epidemiologist has been banging that drum for as long as I have been aware of epidemiologists. Before that, people were predicting it based on overpopulation. Surprise! What the 'experts' were predicting actually happened...and as a reward: The lunatics have decided that they CAUSED it.Quote:
And it wasn't one, but several ones of them that were announcing a pandemic in later years.
Being pandemics rare events in history, they must form a club of prophets.
I wonder if early astronomers who predicted solar eclipses were ever condemned by the masses for causing the sun to go dark. Some HAVE been executed for getting it wrong, I just wonder if any have been condemned for getting it right?
I'm typically all in favor of every little bit helps but I don't see the value in this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ing-hospitals/Quote:
The Biden administration will start delivering a half-billion free rapid tests to homes next month, according to the statement, and health officials will set up a website where Americans can order them. New federal testing sites will also be established across the country, starting with one in New York City this week.
I just see it as a novelty and a waste of money. Maybe use it one time before seeing Grand Ma? It seems without a constant supply this is futile. Maybe like free, nothing is really free, tests at all major pharmacies.
Edit:
I should have read closer...after the initial mailing there is a website. I need to dig a little deeper.
Different times, different people, different locations, different results...Quote:
Originally Posted by baka
-tg
I went for a walk and got speculating. I mentioned that the ability to create a virus like this didn't exist in the 90s, but I got wondering what it would cost these days, especially if you were willing to do it poorly and without any safety protocols. I'm not going to look it up, but from what I've seen with hardware prices for some of the sequencers, I would guess that it might cost less than the value of my house to put together the hardware to do the job. After that, it would take time doing research to figure out a good starting point.
Now, to be clear, I'm not thinking of doing anything like that. But it seems to me that somebody might be. The point is, you don't need to be a billionaire. You need to be really smart, but if you've got the brains, it might be small money, these days.