My Frickin Neighbor’s Cat

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Don't pity this poor immigrant
My eyes were open when I caught the boat
All I wanted was your shelter, and maybe just a little hope
But you turned your anger on me for the courage that you lack
I don't want your half-assed freedom
You can have the whole deal back
Now let me tell you something
Let's get this straight from the start
Don't call me harp, don't call me harp

You said "Bring me your poor and destitute
And I can kick them when they're down"
Cause there's always enough misery
And we'll be sure to share it round
Now I'll turn my anger on you for the decency you lack
For the morals you fail to uphold, your cocaine, crack and smack
To the land that wears it's heart up front
I'm screaming from the back
Don't call me harp, don't call me harp

And the ghetto's almost full now
It's time the trash was moved uptown
And the sight of all those beggers on the streets
Must really get you down
Soon they'll turn their anger on you for the promises you broke
For all the lies you told them as their dreams went up in smoke
And I feel I stand among them as I shout this from the heart
Don't call me harp, don't call me harp

You built your land on principles decent, brave and true
I find it hard to understand just what went wrong with you
Don't call me harp, don't call me harp

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dude,

where is the reference to the cat?

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Originally posted by JPicasso
dude,

where is the reference to the cat?

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Dude, I saw it... I don't know what happened... COOL look at all the colors....

anyway..

My neighbors are real a**-holes and their cat has been getting in our yard and leaving buried treasure in the garden, etc. The damn thing also loves to tease the dog by strutting back and forth on the wall with its tail twitching in the air.

Every dog has its day and today was it. My wife called and the poor kitty must have used up its previous eight lives. She wants to know should she return the remains or pretend it didn’t happen.

Don't pretend it didn't happen.

I would really like to know all the laws on this. Wait... I would really like to set all the laws on this.

You let your dog kill that cat. You destroyed that cat. You destroyed someone else's property. You are liable for damages.

That was simple.

Unless that cat posed a clear and present danger to yourself or others, you had no reason to destroy it, or allow it to be destroyed through your own negligence.

I'm still trying to decide about the fence thing. On the one had, you tried to contain your dog to avoid such a problem. But on the other, no one thought the fence would keep the cat out. Should you be asked to do more? I'm not sure.

I'll get back to you on that.

I still don't see a cat.

So, Travis, if a coyote eats my cat is the Air Force Base responsible since the fences they erected didn't keep the coyotes out?

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
But on the other, no one thought the fence would keep the cat out.

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But they also knew that the fence wouldn't keep the cat in. The cat was tresspassing on private property so therefore was in the wrong. (unless the dog snached the cat off the fence, then its kinda iffy).
Personaly I think cats should be kept indoors.
Michael

The Air Force doesn't own the coyotes. Same goes for humans, though. If you are camping and are eaten by a bear or die from a spider bite, then that would be too bad. No one is at fault.

But in this case, the dog is clearly owned by someone. So if it were to kill a kid or a cat, then its owners should be held responsible (unless it is the kid or cat can be ruled a clear danger to the dog, in which case it was defending itself).

I'm just not sure about the fence. Should token efforts be counted as enough? I don't know.

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Originally posted by msimmons
But they also knew that the fence wouldn't keep the cat in. The cat was tresspassing on private property so therefore was in the wrong. (unless the dog snached the cat off the fence, then its kinda iffy).

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I've seen fences that were notably easier for a cat to cross in one direction. If there is a tree or box on one side of a fence that is too high to be crossed, then the cat can cross from that side. But not from the other. *shrug* I don't know.

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Personaly I think cats should be kept indoors.

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Yes, well, this isn't about what anyone personally likes. I don't mind dogs and cat roaming the neighborhood. But I've never owned a dog that I throught was a credible threat to a cat (or a kid). And my cat clearly is not a threat to another cat, much less a dog.

What would you suggest they do....build a bubble around their house in case a cat decides to jump in their backyard? The dog didn't get out of his territory and kill the cat! The wife didn't encourage the dog to kill the cat. The cat was in his territory and had been taunting him. What exactly do you think the people did wrong?

barrk:
If your question was for me, I mentioned that I think cats should be kept indoors. I am a cat lover and never let mine out I had a girfriend once that would let them out and they would get into all sorts of trouble (fights, ringworm, and who knows what else). I do understand that some people think that it is against their nature to be 'kooped up' but I think it is for their benifit :)
Michael

Nope...the question was for Travis (CiberThug). I agree with you, myself!!!!!!!

Call me Katie, please!

My cat is dual indoor and outdoor. I always make sure to bring her in before it gets dark. I have never had a problem except twice she brought in a bird and I thoroughly soaked the cat both times and she quit.

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Originally posted by msimmons
I think cats should be kept indoors.

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:eek:

You'd put thousands of Chinese Takeaways out of business.

My wife called and she insists that we come clean with what happened. I told her to wrap it up in a towel and I would take it next door when I got home. Boy do I look forward to that task.

I called the Office of Animal Control and explained what happened. The officer basically said "Oh well, the dog was just doing what comes natural". Animal Control will document the incident in case Dick next door calls and says I'm keeping a dangerous animal.

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Originally posted by barrk
What would you suggest they do....build a bubble around their house in case a cat decides to jump in their backyard? The dog didn't get out of his territory and kill the cat! The wife didn't encourage the dog to kill the cat. The cat was in his territory and had been taunting him. What exactly do you think the people did wrong?

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I've already said what I think went wrong. I'm just not sure how the fence should factor in. There are two ways it could go, and they basicly boil down to this, you have the right to kill anything that enters your yard, or you can only kill something if it poses a danger, regardless of where it is.

If we go with the first way, then there is no wrong in this case. Then I'll just sit out on my front porch and with dog treats, cat treats, and girl scout cookies, and shoot every dog, cat, and girl scout that wanders into my yard.

As to the fence. I could just as easily put up a two foot picket fence, or maybe just a peice of ribbon on a stick. It is clear that my dog isn't going to wander beyond that point. So if your kid or cat wander into my yard and die at the hands of the dog, c'est dommage.

If you don't want the cat in your yard, then file a grievance, and put the responsiblity on the owners. If I don't like you parking your car in my spot, then I complain. If it happens again, you are fined or towed. I don't have the right to destroy your car, regardless of where you park it. I don't have the right to destroy your cat, regardless of how often it wanders into my yard.

So, I guess I know where the fence factors in. It is your attempt at keeping your dog from wandering into someone else's yard.

He did kill the cat. The dog did. He took reasonable precautions to keep the dog in his yard. How could it be his fault. The wife obviously feels badly. But it is hardly anyone's fault. that's all I'm saying!

Well, if you say the fence was a reasonable precaution, where do you draw the line? I could say that any fence, no matter how small was a reasonable precaution. Or I could simply say the dog had been to obediance school and would not wander out of the yard.

I've been thinking about this from other angles (and I'm wondering, why am I the only one who's actually thinking about this and not just going with a gut decision, regardless of how it factors into fairness or the precident it will set).

What if I have a tree in my yard that is clearly about to fall. I tie a rope to it and stake it to the ground in an attempt to stay it. You are standing in my yard (or you have parked your car in my driveway) and the tree falls and destroys you or your car (or both).

For that matter, my front porch is rotting, and I know it. You walk up to the door and it collapses, crushing you.

I have no idea. I'm guessing these are not my fault. They were in my yard, I knew about them. And I didn't make you stand there. Besides, I can't be bothered to fix every little thing that could pose a danger. I can't cover my porch in plastic so you don't get a splinter. I can't pick up every little stone in the driveway so you don't stub your toe. I can't get every pine cone and mulberry off the tree so they don't fall on you and bruise your head.

I guess if I put up signs "Beware of Falling Trees", "Do Not Use Porch". Now we are just getting silly. I shouldn't have to warn others about what is going on in my yard.

Can you tell where I'm being sarcastic.

My point is, property is property. Regardless of where I leave it, I shouldn't have to worry about it being destroyed (and on a small tangent, I shouldn't have to worry about it being stolen, too).

But, I shouldn't be allowed to park on train tracks. I don't know... it just isn't a clear issue.

The backyard fence is a 6 foot block wall with two gates. Each gate is clearly marked "Beware of Dog". Both gates are locked from the outside, you must be in the backyard to unlock the gate. The dog is trained not to leave the yard, I can leave a gate open and he will sit at the gate and wait. The dog is very protective of what he considers his family and turf. Yet, my 6 six year old can take his food bowl away when he is eating or a chew bone with not so much as a growl, he will just wag his tail and lick her face.

This "incident" took place in my backyard, his turf.....

then it is completely not your fault.

I had a similar Situation. The guy down the street had a poodle that got off of it's Leash. It wandered into my back yard and my German Shepherd ate him. As long as your dog is properly restrained by fence or leash and the other animal is not properly restrained there is no liability to you weather you are on your property or walking down the street. As long as you are following the animal code where you live you're ok.:rolleyes: , and could probably sue him for emotional distress or something. At least where I live any how. Of course that goes for animals only, not people/kids

Suidae, I have a couple questions. Did the owners of the cat know that the cat comes in your yard and that you don't want it there and neither does your dog? Was there any way that you or your wife could've prevented the death of the cat, or did you just let the dog do it?

If the answer to my first question is no, then that's a strike against you, because you should've let them know.

On to the second question: If you could've prevented the death of the cat and either refused or neglected to do it, then you are probably responsible for the death of the cat, for obvious reasons.

If you didn't even see this coming and the cat owners didn't respond to complaints, then it isn't really your fault.


I once lost a dog because the stupid thing ran across the road in front of a pickup truck. I was walking down my driveway toward my house and the dog was coming with me. Then she suddenly turned and dashed across the road (no leash, I know), completely oblivious of the pickup truck that was going by. I don't hold the driver responsible, because there was nothing he could've done. Also, I knew the stupid dog had no fear of cars, because she was almost hit several times before. Anyhow, I place the blame solidly on the stupid dog (though I should probably take some blame, myself), which should be obvious because of the adjectives I'm choosing for her.


My cat is free to roam outside the house or come in, but in my case, I live in the middle of the woods, at the end of a dirt road. So I can get away with it. Also, my cat is pretty tough. He can actually scare my two dogs and send them running (but that probably doesn't take much, though).

All dogs should be shot!

No, seriously, I'd just bury the cat.

Cat?

What Cat?
:confused:

cat + .22LR = :D

My question is how did bonker know about the cat?

You two neighbors?

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Originally posted by JPicasso
My question is how did bonker know about the cat?

You two neighbors?

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I must be losing it! I'm totally lost now.:confused: :confused: :confused:

Hey Bonker, what happened to the giraffe then ?

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Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Hey Bonker, what happened to the giraffe then ?

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Found It!
http://www.vbforums.com/images/ieimages/2002/03/2.gif

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Originally posted by Tygur
Suidae, I have a couple questions. Did the owners of the cat know that the cat comes in your yard and that you don't want it there and neither does your dog? Was there any way that you or your wife could've prevented the death of the cat, or did you just let the dog do it?

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The neighbors have "complained" about the dog barking. I've explained to them that the dog is barking at their cat in the yard or on the fence. If they don't want to hear the dog bark then lock up the cat.

I took the cat wrapped up in a towel to the neighbors house when I got home. Both the husband and the wife where home and they went ballistic on me. I apologized, I apologized and I apologized again. I finally had to walk away, my brother who had gone over with me stayed behind at their house for about another 30 minutes. When he came back he said everything was fine and not to worry. The neighbors actually waved to me (first time) when I was leaving for work this morning. I swear my brother could sell ice cubes in the South Pole.

I don't think it's unreasonable behavior for a dog to attack a smaller animal that comes into its territory.

I think using extreme analogies, such as people killing other people who enter their yards, really has no bearing on the issue.

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Originally posted by cafeenman
I don't think it's unreasonable behavior for a dog to attack a smaller animal that comes into its territory.

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Fair enough.

So it is fair for a 70 lbs dog to destroy a 10 lbs cat because it is a "smaller animal that comes into [the dog's] territory".

I would conclude that you think it fair for this same 70 lbs dog to destroy a 25 lbs toddler. It meets the criteria? It is a smaller animal that has trespassed against the dog.

You can't just arbitrarily decide that one peice of property gets more protection than another. You can't just decide that it is okay to destroy someone's cat, but that their car is protected by law. What is the difference in these two that makes one acceptable?

How about the thought process.... the ability to reason.

It was instinct with the dog.... Dogs have been chasing cats since day 1. I'm sure he didn't even blink let alone think about it.

So you would put your toddler over the fence into a yard with a 70 lb dog in it?

You can't tell the difference between a person bashing someone's car with a baseball bat and a dog chasing a cat that enters the yard?

I'm sorry, but if you don't know what the difference is, I probably won't be able to explain it to you.

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How about the thought process.... the ability to reason.

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Just because he doesn't know the difference, doesn't remove your responsiblity.

Else I could let the 25 lbs toddler shoot and kill you. It's not like he knows the difference.

Besides which, if I can find one dog on this planet that wouldn't kill a cat, then I've undermind the instinct arguement. I can't help but think it now has to do with environment.

Heck, this reminds me of a true story...

My wife and I occasionally house sit for a teacher at her school. We will spend the weekend at this lady's house. We sleep in the bed with both dogs, one of wich is a 70 lbs, three-legged mutt, the other a hound mix (about 50 lbs). After everyone is settled in the bed, the family domestic, long-haired cat will find a little spot on the bed (or on the the 70 lbs beast's back) and sleep.

Two rather large dogs that not only don't kill cats, but protect this one like a little sister.

So, uhm, instinct?

For some dogs, yes. It is instinctual to protect their family.

I think the dog should be put on the electric chair for mansla ... err .. catslaughter. No cat should be killed by dogs guarding their territory brandishing a katana. Cats are holy and giraffes are just plain stupid.

Put 'im on the chair ! No mercy ! Serves the bloody mongrel right. :mad:

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Originally posted by cafeenman
You can't tell the difference between a person bashing someone's car with a baseball bat and a dog chasing a cat that enters the yard?

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If you can't explain this difference, then I can't help but think that you don't actually know the difference. In which case, I have to ask you to "put up or shut up".

Look, I'm trying to figure out this situation from a logical and fair point of view. That involves defining the role of property, of pets, and responsiblity, and not basing everything on some silly gut reaction.

I own a car, I own a cat, I have a toddler. To what degree are these properties different? What makes that distinction? And if any of these are not property, then what are they, and what defines their relationship to me? To what degree am I responsible for each peice of property? To what degree is each peice of property protected by law?

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Originally posted by cafeenman
For some dogs, yes. It is instinctual to protect their family.

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Sorry, this was funny. "For some dogs". How do we know which? "For some humans it is instinctual to eat other humans". I guess that is fair.

As to protection? Ohmygod? What was this cat going to do? Did the family have a pet vole that was in danger? If not, then what clear and present danger did this cat pose to the dog or the family that justified this extreme action?

No, you're not doing anything logical at all. You're using exteme examples that have nothing to do with the point.

It's like a smoker trying to justify smoking because some people live to be 104.

You're argument is out in left field somewhere and I'm not going to "put up" to get sucked into a juvenile game of semantics with you.

If you put your child into a yard with a dog in it then you deserve to fry. It's not the dog's fault, it's your's.

If you value your car as highly as you value your toddler then you serious problems with your values.

If the guy cared about his cat so much he should have taken care of it and put it on a lead. I have cat, 2 dogs and a 6ft Iguana. They get along fine because the grew up with each other. If another animal comes into the yard they are getting eaten. So by your thinking I should not be allowed to keep my dogs because someone else can't keep their cat in their own yard? They Do make electric fences for cat's.

The dog has proven dangerous and has displayed violent tendancies by attacking and killing the cat.

{if he did indeed do such a thing. where are the witnesses??? did some nameless entity do an anonymous phone in and pin it on the dog??? Was the dog framed for a crime he did not commit???}

I would NOT trust the dog around any children without supervision from this point forward, and I would seriously consider getting rid of it, and raise the more peaceful, placid animal, the Harmonious Sea Monkey.

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Originally posted by NotLKH
I would NOT trust the dog around any children without supervision from this point forward, and I would seriously consider getting rid of it, and raise the more peaceful, placid animal, the Harmonious Sea Monkey.

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You should never trust any dog around children unsupervised and if you are responsable that situation will never occur.

This thread is in danger of getting too bloody serious !

Everyone out ! Out ! Out ! And don't forget your kitty !

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Originally posted by BG
They Do make electric fences for cat's.

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I just saw something recently, and think its the smartest idea in a while. While sitting in a parking lot at a local grocery store, waiting for a tow truck, I looked up at the edge of the roof of the building, and noticed all along the edge several silvery posts, about 5 inches high. Straining my eyes a little more, it became evidant that the store had erected an electric fence for pigions!

The Wegmans Sign was spotless, and not a Pigeon in sight!
;)

You aardvarked someone else's property
:D

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Originally posted by NotLKH
You aardvarked someone else's property
:D

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I've pissed myself...... :D :D :D

:D :D :D :D :D
Fanatic MuffDiver Member

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Originally posted by cafeenman
No, you're not doing anything logical at all. You're using exteme examples that have nothing to do with the point.

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This thread is in no danger of being serious. Cafy wants to complain about me, but doesn't offer any attempt at rationlizing anything.

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If you put your child into a yard with a dog in it then you deserve to fry. It's not the dog's fault, it's your's.

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Okay, so if a dog should ever destroy a child or a cat, it is never the dog's fault. You have to clarify this.

Hell, you haven't even clarified how the dog was defending anything. You haven't even clarified how we label instinct and to what degree it is acceptable.

Your opinion doesn't matter. If you simply refuse to offer any help in this situation, then STFU.

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Originally posted by NotLKH
You aardvarked someone else's property
:D

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LOL

*ahem*







LOL :D

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
This thread is in no danger of being serious. Cafy wants to complain about me, but doesn't offer any attempt at rationlizing anything.

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I'm not complaining. I'm saying you are using exteme examples and semantics to manipulate the topic into something else. I've explained myself clearly. If you don't understand what I've said then too bad.

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Okay, so if a dog should ever destroy a child or a cat, it is never the dog's fault. You have to clarify this.

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More extremism. I didn't use the word "never." So you continue to manipulate which shows that you would rather twist the subject than address it. I clearly stated my views on the cat entering a fenced yard.

Let me ask you a few things:

You are surely aware that some dogs kill cats, correct? Do you understand that you are taking the risk of your cat being killed when you let it go outside since you can't control where it goes?

Do you think all animals should die because they kill another animal?

Should I be held responsible if your cat runs into the road and I hit it with my car? I don't think I have the right to kills something because it is in the road? What about the cats that kill birds? Do they need to be destroyed as well?

If the toddler can somehow get into the fenced yard on his own, then I would say the responsibilty goes two ways. To the child's care takers because they were obviously negligent and to the dog owners for the same reason.

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Hell, you haven't even clarified how the dog was defending anything. You haven't even clarified how we label instinct and to what degree it is acceptable.

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I don't care if the dog was defending anything or not. The dog was merely doing what it does. The cat didn't have enough survival instinct to avoid the dog. Darwin rules.

You want me to define "instinct." Why? You don't know what it is? You sound like Bill Gates getting into pissing contests over the meaning of common words.

You haven't said how the toddler gets into the yard. If the caretakers put the child there, then the caretakers are clearly responsible for anything that happens to the child.

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Your opinion doesn't matter. If you simply refuse to offer any help in this situation, then STFU.

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It sounds like my opinion matters a lot to you.

I've clearly stated my views. You don't agree with me. That's ok.

There must be a short circuit in the cerebrae baby ...

It's just a sodding cat and dog. Hardly the end of the world, isn't it ? :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Wally Pipp
There must be a short circuit in the cerebrae baby ...

It's just a sodding cat and dog. Hardly the end of the world, isn't it ? :rolleyes:

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But what if it was a toddler that climbed the tree and went into the yard? :rolleyes:

Yeah ...

What if Bush pushed the red button and nuked Russia ? :rolleyes:

It would be a different discussion then.

Besides, I ate my cat last summer, so there :p

Caffeen,

Amen!

and you got your Bill right, but it was Bill Clinton that misunderstood the word "is".

Wally,

Amen!

It was just a freakin cat.

CiberThug

Ahem.

we all have our moments, but I'm beginning to think you're just thick.

JPicasso

Agreed!

How is it that the starter of the thread knows nothing about a cat and apparently didn't even want to start talking about cats and where's my other shoe?

To the Idiot in the CUBE next to me

ARGH!

Clip your freakin toenails at home, don't bring your clippers in again!

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Originally posted by JPicasso

How is it that the starter of the thread knows nothing about a cat and apparently didn't even want to start talking about cats and where's my other shoe?

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Forget the cat it's gone for good..... lets talk about *****!

Your Dog's eating p#$$2 ummmahemaghhh. Sounds like the guy next door has bigger problems than a dead cat to deal with.

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Originally posted by cafeenman
More extremism. I didn't use the word "never." So you continue to manipulate which shows that you would rather twist the subject than address it. I clearly stated my views on the cat entering a fenced yard.

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Okay, the define when, if not never? How big a fence is acceptable?

I don't have any answers. That's what this is about, finding answers.

As to Darwin. I'm also aware that dogs can kill people. So if you die to a dog roaming the neighborhood, does that mean you deserved it?

As to extremes, I'm sorry. If your rules only apply some of the times and not others, then you need to specifiy when and where.

Enough of this stupid ****. I don't want to hear any more crap. I want you to outline when and where it is acceptable for what to kill what. I want to know how to classify and control pets. If you don't like "extreme" examples, then provide some.

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Originally posted by JPicasso
we all have our moments, but I'm beginning to think you're just thick.

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***?! Being thick? No one is outlining anything. Some people think the dog (and its owners) were in the wrong, and some people think the cat (and its owners) were in the wrong. But no one has dared to give any reason, any statement than can be used as the touchstone to determine fault in future cases.

I don't care if you think it is right or wrong. I want to know exactly why it is right or wrong. I want to see something that can be made into legislation.