This thread is for the Zelda III Online programming team to spread information. Most of anyone who wishs to join the team. The game is going to be written in Direct 3D (probably 8.0).
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This thread is for the Zelda III Online programming team to spread information. Most of anyone who wishs to join the team. The game is going to be written in Direct 3D (probably 8.0).
OK.... well, what do we need first? I can start over the weekend...
I too can contribute this weekend, but where to start? :)
after looking the stuff over, I still don't have a good idea as to where we should begin the coding!
:(
Dang :(. We kinda need to know where to begin before we can begin. (Just don't ask me why this is true ;))
i would like to say some thing
you can start to code a engine or wraper
for your game:rolleyes:
Well, I dont know how to make an engine, so what else can i do?
It ends up that my parents had some plans. I will not be at home this weekend. Although I will have a laptop, it doesn't have acess to the web, and it doesn't have VB (or enough room for it).
how about you start assigning jobs.... I am really really bored right now :)
I could make some art or something...
Or if your on right now, lets play sc bw(starcraft broodwar)
I made a login form, just cause i got bored... and it also has a cool
pic to go with it :)
hope you like it...
Gaming, those problems are on your screen. You'll need to open up the OSD for your monitor and change the Pincushion value for the resolution you're having difficulties with.
Will some one tell me? I posted the question right
before Sastraxi...
Flame_211, I don't know. (Is that a good enough answer?)
Sastraxi, Where in the OSD?
well I am really knew to this here and I don't know about any of your progress, but I think the best place to start is the server - client thing. I would do that without using any directX yet except for if you use it for the connection (Dplay). Than I would start creating the first more graphical client and than you will probably already have enough problems that you will know what to do next anyways :)
I feel that we should do everything we can in directx (using d3d, dplay, dmusic, dsound, ect).
OK, It's sounds good to me...
What do you guys think of these graphics for the game? They are meant to be for after you enter a game and are playing. I am currently working on a sample program for them.
What graphics?
haha I felt so dumb because I do not know either, I didn't dare to ask though :)
After reading this thread, I have to tell you guys:
This project will never finish.
This has more than one reason:
1) VB is not a "great" platform for writing Big Commercial Online Games...
2) The name ZELDA is TradeMarked/CopyRighted and Registred. You'll never get away with that...
3) You need professionals for Game programming
4) If you don't sort out who does what you'll keep running around doing nothing
5) If none of you know what an "engine" or "game-enigine" is, give it up
6) The graphics are soooooo default photoshop-like.. Nothing special to me.
7) Why not make some "scenario" or "storyboard"? Use some (pen-drawn) sketches with them...
8) There are no guidelines: Is it going to be played by keyboard or joytick/gamepad? Or is this configurable? What resolutions are going to be used? What are the Tile sizes (Zelda-like games work with Tiles). etc. etc.
9) Why use a ANIMATED gif for the "intro" screen? Why not fade-in and out from code? This saves a lot of space for the final game (which again, will never happen if you ask me)....
10)....
11)....
...
...
999)...
I'm sorry guys. All I want to say that if ANY commercial company would have started like this pathetic attempt then 3d Realms, 3do Company, acclaim, activision, bitmap Brothers, blizzard, bluebyte, bullfrog, bungie, codemasters, disney, dreamworks, eidos, electronic Arts, epic Games, gremlin, hasbro, id Software, infogrames, interplay, konami, lucasarts, maxis, microprose, microsoft, mindscape, monolith, novalogic, origin, rage, sierra, team 17, thq, ubi Soft, westwood and lots of others would NEVER have come off the ground....
My Advice: Try again after getting some experience with other languages, programming in general and programming in games...
Look at the credits screen for ANY games. Most of them were made by teams of 50 to 250 people! Why would 5 "happy campers" be able to create Zelda3 Online?
1)VB is not a great platform for creating online games. Everyone knows that. It doesnt make it impossible to create good games with it. Sentience is certainly a prime example.Quote:
Originally posted by RobIII
After reading this thread, I have to tell you guys:
This project will never finish.
This has more than one reason:
1) VB is not a "great" platform for writing Big Commercial Online Games...
2) The name ZELDA is TradeMarked/CopyRighted and Registred. You'll never get away with that...
3) You need professionals for Game programming
4) If you don't sort out who does what you'll keep running around doing nothing
5) If none of you know what an "engine" or "game-enigine" is, give it up
6) The graphics are soooooo default photoshop-like.. Nothing special to me.
7) Why not make some "scenario" or "storyboard"? Use some (pen-drawn) sketches with them...
8) There are no guidelines: Is it going to be played by keyboard or joytick/gamepad? Or is this configurable? What resolutions are going to be used? What are the Tile sizes (Zelda-like games work with Tiles). etc. etc.
9) Why use a ANIMATED gif for the "intro" screen? Why not fade-in and out from code? This saves a lot of space for the final game (which again, will never happen if you ask me)....
10)....
11)....
...
...
999)...
I'm sorry guys. All I want to say that if ANY commercial company would have started like this pathetic attempt then 3d Realms, 3do Company, acclaim, activision, bitmap Brothers, blizzard, bluebyte, bullfrog, bungie, codemasters, disney, dreamworks, eidos, electronic Arts, epic Games, gremlin, hasbro, id Software, infogrames, interplay, konami, lucasarts, maxis, microprose, microsoft, mindscape, monolith, novalogic, origin, rage, sierra, team 17, thq, ubi Soft, westwood and lots of others would NEVER have come off the ground....
My Advice: Try again after getting some experience with other languages, programming in general and programming in games...
Look at the credits screen for ANY games. Most of them were made by teams of 50 to 250 people! Why would 5 "happy campers" be able to create Zelda3 Online?
2)Everyone who participates here knows that Zelda 3 is a working name, not a final name.
3) Wow.... just... Wow.
4) Things dont get sorted out in 4 seconds. trust me.
5) You dont need a game engine to create a game. A game engine is there to be reusable.
6) Nobody creates final artwork before a line of code is written. Not even Blizzard.
7) You would be pretty foolish to create a story for an online game....
8) It takes time to create a design document. They dont just appear.
9) See number 6.
10) ...
11) ...
999) ...
Didnt Hasbro start out making toys? Wasnt every game company made up of amateurs before becoming commercial developers?
Basically all your post has told me is that you know next to nothing about game development. Try to get out of your box before telling people what they can or cant do.
Z.
I got 2 words for you...
Screw You...
(By the way, this is for RobIII)
btw where can I see those graphics now? still haven't found them.
I have been having trouble with getting them uploaded. I will upload them to www.kaynor.net/games/temp.zip
They are big (459K). When I posted that message I was having difficulies with my comp & internet.
it says invalid archive when i open it...
same here
The reason why is that it can only upload around 17% of the file. I can't get it to upload properly. I will have to upload it to 7 differnt posts...
2
3
4
5
6
7
This one is too big to post. The other pictures basicly show what is on this one though.
I am also working on a program to use these. The disgin isn't complete yet, as it will need stuff such as buttons. The health and mana (magic) bars are in the pictures though.
well I think those graphics are really not worth a lot.
I am sorry to say that and I know I am not involved into this here, but I looked at those bars and they really look like a hotoshop 10second try. And those Mana and health parts don't really have any meaning they are just colorful, while most games use some kind of progressbar or glass or something like that, and what makes those graphics look good is the shadow, but how do you want to program this shadow into the game that nice? I know you can do it, but I doubt you want to keep it in those basic graphic files.
Same here. Default photoshop actions/effects. You didn't have to post the gfx for the color variations, we could've guessed them :D
Some defaul "bevel & emboss" and "pattern" effect don't make great gfx. You have to put some work in...
Sorry buddy...
Oh, and why didn't you save them as GIF or JPEG, as the size would've been many times smaller. I'll post an example.... Hang on :p
Tadaaaaaaaa :D
how about this for one of the bars?
or perhaps this one......
OH MY GOD ROBIII THEY'VE LOST THEIR QUALITY :rolleyes:
no for reals now, I am not trying to discurage you, but I think it really helps if you kind of know what the game should look like later on, most game developers create "screenshots" before they create anything, just some basic outlines...
maybe some of you guys should try some (could be handdrawn too) and than you can talk about which ones you like and what to take and what not and than make the single baars and buttons...
First of all: Developers DON'T create screenshots. Thats what Designers are for.
Second: Most (commercial) games start out with storyboards and these sorts of things and in the first few stages are still drawn on paper to get an idea of the look and feel. Also a lot of planning and discussing about technical issues as the engine etc. take place in these stages. Only the last few stages involve actually designing in digital form and developing.
And as I stated before: I don't think you're ready for these stages yet...
Well you are right about that it is the designers job. I meant the whole team by saying the developers. Well you really do not need a storyboard for an online game, and what I said about those "screenshots" was related to the creation of the user panel since they already started those.
Of course it would be good to discuss some techniques first.
/\/\isanThr0p, If you know so much about doing the graphics, you want to do some that are of very high quility?
RobIII, I would have saved them in JPG or GIF, but since I planned on zipping them up (and they are temporary), the formatting wouldn't make a lot of differnce. Look at the compression ratio of the JPGs or GIFs and my BMPs. I was also having problems due to the fact that I had a bigger file. If I wouldn't have attempted to include that file, I could have posted them up in one big zip file too.
Hey gaming world I was not trying to offend you.
I was just joking and I was talking about the quality of the bitmap not the quality of the graphic. Since they are just samples I would have posted them with strong compression so its fast to view and upload (especially for those poor modem users)
well I am sorry if I offended you.
I wish you best luck on your project.
What I don't like is when people say that your work sucks, but woun't say how to improve it and/or woun't create better for you. If they think that something sucks, they should be able to do better.
If you think we're here to do it FOR you, you're in the wrong place. You'll have to do it yourself (or with your team), all we can do is provide hints/tips/advice. We're not your mom :DQuote:
Originally posted by Gaming_World
What I don't like is when people say that your work sucks, but woun't say how to improve it and/or woun't create better for you. If they think that something sucks, they should be able to do better.
Do your dirty laundry yourself :D
Gaming specifically mentioned giving hints or tips to improve, I believe.
Rob, why are you even here, if all you ever give are negative comments? You have repeatedly shown that you know next to nothing about the game development process. Lets boil it down.
Stage 1: Design
This is where a design document is created, concept art is created, tentative GUI design is laid, and engine specifications are drwan up. Both the designers and developers, as well as the other members of a team have a heavy impact on this stage. Designers are not there to dictate a game to a programmer/artist/musician. There is a flow back and forth, a brainstorming if you will. This process generally continues until late stages in development, prompting a very modular engine and game design.
Stage 2: Engine implementation
This stage is optional, as you do not need a game engine to create a game. This stage begins the engine creation process, to create a modular, and reusable code base.
Stage 3: Game implementation
This is the stage where the actual game is implemented, tweaked, etc. The engine is usually finalized near the beginning of this phase, as is the final design document. Artists should now be busy creating release, or near release quality artwork, and the musicians are hard at work creating a stunning score.
Stage 4: Testing
Obviously, this is the final testing stage, and may include a public beta test. If any problems are found, they are terminated.
Stage 5: Release
This is the final goal.
These are not very hard steps to follow, nor do they require "professional" programmers to accomplish. You DO have to take the steps in order though, and none of them get done in a few weeks.
Perhaps you should experience the process before commenting on how "badly" this team is doing.
Z.
I'm NOT commenting on how "bad" they are doing. I'm WARNING them. Just to tell them it ain't easy. No pun intended.
The stages you mentioned are the same as I mentionend (maybe in different word-ings but hey...)
But I do not agree that stage 1 is for developing already. Maybe we can agree to split step 1 in two steps:
1) design document is created, concept art is created, tentative GUI design is laid...
2) actual developing starts
Also EVERY game has "some sort" of an engine. If it is reusable or modular is another thing. So although the "Engine" may be specific to their game, it is still just a bunch of code. Difference is that a "good engine" can be used again for some other (new) games.
I am a professional developer (full time) working in a team with:Quote:
Perhaps you should experience the process before commenting on how "badly" this team is doing.
1) Project Managers
2) Technical Managers
3) Designers
4) Developers
5) Testers
and lots of other "...-managers" like account-managers etc. So don't try to tell me how this process works. We work on long-term projects (some of them 3 months, others 3 yrs) in one form or another in the "stages" described above. We also use RAD methods (Rapid Aplication Development) where application development is started in very early stages, but still "stage 1" (as I stated above) is always complete before 1 line of code is written. This is because the team-players all need to agree the direction we're taking.
If you'd like to know what sort of projects we do: I work for a BIG company and we build CD-Rom productions for children in school (6-12yrs old I'd say) and build (e-commerce) websites for big commercial companies like Canon. I am specialising in ASP/VBScript and for many years in Visual Basic now. Also databases (MS SQL) and HTML/Javascript are some of my "specialties". I've programmed before for the Motorola 68K in ASM and have been around in C(++), Delphi and some "project-specific" languages. Also I've programmed PLC's and have worked for a computer company for 3 years supporting/repairing and maintaining hardware, servers and networks (routers/switches/firewalls etc). But I must admit that most knowledge for me is based on Microsoft stuff...
And even I learn something new (even on these forums) about VB almost every day...
Oh, ...
And I'd like to apologize for some strong words I have used in a previous post (a few posts ago)... They may have come out wrong, and I just had a bad day...Sorry...
I will agree with most things above, except for the engine stuff. An engine is completly separate from game code. The actual game code USES the engine, so that the two never mix. If you have rendering stuff, for instance, tied directly into some game logic, you no longer have an engine, instead, you have a game. To resuse that code, you would have to dive in, and rip out all of the mixed code, hoping that you dont destroy what you want in the process. To reuse an engine, you simply drop in the existing code, and start.
Sorry if I came across as being an ass, but it really bugs me when I see someone telling others what they cant do.
I certainly agree about the design phases, but for amateur projects such as this, it always helps to get something ont he screen while the designing is going on, so people dont lose interest during the "boring" parts of development(development, meaning the entire process). Personally, Design is one of the most fun aspects.
I also agree that it is a difficult project, but not nearly impossible. VB's speed is not much of an issue, as you can create DLLs to do some time critical functions for you.
Anyway, sorry for sounding bitchy, I apologize =).
Z.
well I think I did tell you guys what I think should be done better so I am not just saying you suck, but I try to give tips. I don't have the time to do artwork for a project I am not involved in and I am not a designer either, I still think that I got the right to say that those pictures were not that great.
See the problem is that none of us are graphic designers (as far as I know). I belive we are all programers and/or web-masters.
there's always a lack of artists, but I have seem some guys around here making quite nice graphics. If you read a book about photoshop you are already able to do a lot better than what was posted. (search for some tutorials, I had a photo class a year ago, did some stuff there quite impressing what you can do pretty easily if you know how to (and got the time ... of course))
hm I forgot about the name of the book
when I remember I will post it, I really think it's worth the 40$ (well you can find most of it on the net too) or 50$ if you live out of USA. (like me)
I took a photography class last semsitser, and they did a light covering of Photoshop there. Before that class, I used MS Paint.
what a powerful tool :)
well than I would look to get a little deeper into photoshop
sorry ive been gone for a few days.
I had some family business to deal wth...
I think we should probably get some one JUST for
art work...(So programmers dont have to do everything, although we can, it
is still toooooo much work for however many people we have..)
I know, I want too. But I don't have the time or money to pay for one out of school.
I also argee that we need an artist (who isn't do anything else).
Ill go post a thread in the graphics forum part of vbforums and see if anyone want to join...
Sigh :rolleyes:
Ok ok fine, ill help you guys out with graphics :)
I love media, so im not that bad at it
I just have to know you guys are serious about this... that this isen't going to fall appart in the next few weeks.
And I have to warn you, I don't have alot of time but 2d graphics don't take me that long to do.
Heres a sample I just drew a few weeks ago in like ½ hour.. I was bored. (sorry kinda bad quality, lowerd cause of attachment limit)
BTW: Check out my "music offer post" in the projects request forum.