Which is Better

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Aug 2nd, 2001, 12:40 PM
CiberTHuG

Which is Better

Some items of importance:

Yes, I know this poll is skewed toward Perl, but I have not found a light language better than Perl. No, I haven't tried ColdFusion or Python or Ruby or whatever. If you think they are better, sell me on the idea.

Yes, I know PHP is not Perl, just close. I may find that there are some structures in Perl that I can't use in PHP and I may want to run away from PHP, but I figured I would include it. Give me pros and cons.

I'm not seriously going to host a web site with IIS. I'm not stupid.

I don't really want votes so much as pros and cons. What are some good things and some bad things. If you have any other possiblities, mention them and I will add them to the poll.

-Travis
Aug 2nd, 2001, 12:43 PM
filburt1

JSP rocks.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 12:50 PM

Out of the choices I would have to say PHP.

a pro is you don't have to send out the content type header with every script(If you are working with an image or something, you can via the header() function). I also like how you can embed HTML into a page. If I remember correctly, PHP is also faster and more efficient, if set up as an Apache module.

Maybe you could try using C++? It's basically the same as perl(you must send out content type header information at the beginning of every script), but I would think it's more powerful, and probably faster(it's compiled as opposed to interpreted like Perl and PHP)...

As for Python. I haven't used it very much(I wrote one script when I was using redhat), but I know a few people who really like it.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 12:59 PM
filburt1

C++ is compiled, Perl is interpreted. Big difference.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:04 PM

I know. That's why I said it was compiled. I wasn't saying the language was the same as perl, but the way you use it is. You must use fprintf() in C++ to first send out the content header, then you do whatever you do. As opposed to PHP where the content-type header is sent as text/html as soon as you print something to the page.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:11 PM
kovan

asp
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:12 PM
chrisjk

Perl is a lovely mismash of C and unix style commands...
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:15 PM
Cander

PHP all the way. ITs free and comes with all these modules that you would have to pay thousands for the equivilant in ASP COM controls. 2nd supports classes which ASP does not.
Thrid you can write new modules in C for PHP and if PHP is running on on a windows box, you can even use ActiveX Dll's. Fourth its easy. Anyone that can learn javascript can handle PHP.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:15 PM
filburt1

There's a hellish combination. :D
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:21 PM
CiberTHuG

Quote:

Originally posted by denniswrenn
Out of the choices I would have to say PHP.

a pro is you don't have to send out the content type header with every script(If you are working with an image or something, you can via the header() function). I also like how you can embed HTML into a page. If I remember correctly, PHP is also faster and more efficient, if set up as an Apache module.

Maybe you could try using C++? It's basically the same as perl(you must send out content type header information at the beginning of every script), but I would think it's more powerful, and probably faster(it's compiled as opposed to interpreted like Perl and PHP)...

As for Python. I haven't used it very much(I wrote one script when I was using redhat), but I know a few people who really like it.

You don't have to send out header information with ASP. The major con is, you have to run IIS.

I haven't used CGI, but I'm assuming that you have to send out header information with that? That is kind of a hassle. I'm frankly surprised CGI is still around. It is atleast 8 years old. HTTP/HTML isn't much older than that.

I don't know where you could use C++. You would still need some web server script to call on the C++ object.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:36 PM

I know you don't have to send out header information with ASP, but I didn't want to mention ASP because it sucks. If you want to use C++, you just upload the .cpp or .c file to your web server, then you use telnet to compile it (gcc filename.cpp or something like that). then you would just type in the path to the executable as the address(I'm not sure what the extension for an executable is in *nix, but in windows you would do url.com/file.exe?parameters and you would use getenv() to get the parameters)....
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:41 PM
CiberTHuG

I don't have any complaints with ASP other than you have to run IIS. There are probably lots of limitations that I haven't run into.

I will say that I hate VBScript, but you can use PerlScript for ASPs, so I'm muchly more happier.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:44 PM

Well, from what I have heard, all the COM overhead of ASP really makes it slow...
Aug 2nd, 2001, 01:55 PM
CiberTHuG

Quote:

Originally posted by denniswrenn
Well, from what I have heard, all the COM overhead of ASP really makes it slow...

*hehe* Well, with ASP you are working with IIS. Slow is slow. :)
Aug 2nd, 2001, 02:00 PM
filburt1

And virusy (i.e., Code Red :D)
Aug 2nd, 2001, 02:15 PM
CiberTHuG

So, what does CGI offer that puts it above PHP and JSP? Other than real Perl and not PerlScript or PHPs own language and JSPs Java language.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 02:17 PM
filburt1

CGI is not a language, but a definition. Common Gateway Interface. There is no one language that comprises CGI.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 02:25 PM
CiberTHuG

Quote:

Originally posted by filburt1
CGI is not a language, but a definition. Common Gateway Interface. There is no one language that comprises CGI.

Yes, I know. CGI is a technology. And I've seen Rexx used for CGI scripts. But... if you can use Perl for a job, why use anything else? :)

CGI is like ASP, it is a technology. You can use several different languages for either.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 02:28 PM

Quote:

CGI is not a language, but a definition. Common Gateway Interface. There is no one language that comprises CGI.

I think he is talking about using a CGI language(like Perl, or C++, and I think Python too) rather than PHP or JSP.

I think you would be better off using PHP. I can't really think of any reason to use a CGI language over PHP unless you really like the language. Almost every decent host is offering PHP with their packages, and a few give MySQL too. And that's an awesome combo. You can use MySQL from Perl, and C++, but I think you need to download extra packages or libraries, and I really can't be bothered to do that :)
Aug 2nd, 2001, 02:34 PM
CiberTHuG

Well, when I finally get my freakin' box up and running I'll be hosting my own site (ptguild.net) from Apache. I'm just surprised CGI is still around. I guess people just like using Perl and not having to use PHP. Maybe in a few years PHP will replace CGI. I don't know.

I also don't know of any other language that is widespread with CGI. I've seen Perl and Rexx and Tcl used, but only Perl with any regularity.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 02:54 PM
filburt1

Quote:

Originally posted by CiberTHuG
CGI is like ASP, it is a technology. You can use several different languages for either.

I haven't worked with ASP, so correct me if I'm wrong. But doesn't ASP ALWAYS use VB Script or Visual Basic (hence the ASP forum here)?
Aug 2nd, 2001, 02:57 PM

Filburt: You can use VBScript, JScript(not JavaScript), and PerlScript in ASP.

Travis: I think PHP is already starting to replace CGI. Although CGI and Perl are still being used a lot, I have seen a lot of places use PHP for something that could be done in CGI.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 03:04 PM
filburt1

Quote:

Originally posted by denniswrenn
You can use VBScript, JScript(not JavaScript), and PerlScript in ASP.

Oh. Okay. I've only done JSP before, and that is all Java. :cool:
Aug 2nd, 2001, 03:31 PM
CiberTHuG

The default langage for ASP is VBScript. IIS comes with ASP interpreters for JScript. You can also use JScript for client side (ECMAScript) scripting, but only IE understands it, so I suggest sticking to JavaScript for that.

Technically, you can use JavaScript with a "run on server" flag. I'm sure it has limitations, so I wouldn't mess with that, either.

ActiveState, which has the Win32 Perl distribution ActivePerl, has an ASP interpreter for a Perl variant called PerlScript. It is very very sweet (compared to VBScript).

Anyway... how is JSP? Does it require any compiling, or is it interpretive? Does it use Java, or a limited variant of Java? Does it have easy hooks into cookies and short term session cookies? Are JSPs like ASPs and PHPs in that they are embedded in the HTML document (or the other way around, depending on how you look at it)?

Also, what exactly are Java Beans and how do they relate to JSP?

I've never used Java or JSP, but I've seriously considered getting into both. I learn C++ first, so I feel I could make the transition to Java realtively easy. I'm just trying to find a langauge that I can use 80-90% of the time.
Aug 2nd, 2001, 03:42 PM

And that language is PHP!

I'm not absolutely sure if JSP is like PHP and ASP(ability to embed HTML into a script file). I think it is though. You should be able to find this and nearly anything else you wanted to know about JSP here . You can also download Tomcat Jakarta(according to Sun, "it's a free, open-source implementation of Java Servlet and JavaServer Pages technologies developed under the Jakarta project at the Apache Software Foundation.").