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I am surprised this no one has posted about this yet.
I believe it is ridiculous that this kid is getting so much positive support and outreach from these companies and even POTUS over a clock that he just transferred into a suspicious looking case. Not even close to an invention. Plus, he is showing off other "inventions" on TV that are just a jumble of disassembled components that doesn't do anything. Yet he is getting all this support and free stuff.
I smell a publicity stunt.
It's truly disgraceful that this kid was arrested in the first place. There are those who want to pretend that it's not. The fact that this kid is getting what I agree is disproportionate praise and support for supposedly inventing a clock makes it easy for some people to focus on that and dismiss the original issue, which prejudice and discrimination. The boy and the community he represents deserve sympathy and support on those grounds but he's not some STEM prodigy and shouldn't be being portrayed as such.
By the way, Richard Dawkins has tweeted something along those lines.
I had to google, to figure out what you were talking about.
Was it really a suspicious looking case?, or was it just a suspicious looking case because it belonged to an Asian kid?Quote:
over a clock that he just transferred into a suspicious looking case
It sounds from your post that you think he is getting all this positive support just for "creating" that clock. Is it so?
I think its absolutely disgraceful that a kid can be arrested like that.
Sure, and that is absolutely the most important factor. Does that warrant a trip to the White House though, or some of the other attention the kid is getting? I think that a lot of black kids have been unfairly treated by police in the US on occasion but I don't think any of them got that sort of treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheist
Oh no, I absolutely agree that its a bit exaggerated. I understand that since this has blown up in the media, public figures do what they can to show where they stand on the issue. Be it to win votes in future elections, for "fading stars" to remain relevant, or just because you feel bad for the kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcilhinney
So yes, it's a bit silly that everyone seems to care when it gets full media coverage. But I still think the root issue is severe enough that it shadows that silliness.
I think that it might also be a sign of how keen many are to keep the "good" Muslims on-side because they are going to be needed in order to win the fight against the "bad" Muslims. It's very hard to fight Islamic terrorists if you get no cooperation from moderate Muslims because they think that you hate them and consider them terrorists too.
yes, the arrest was ridiculous. The 'invitations' demonstrate a stupidity on another level.
However, the kid 'invented a clock' deliberately designed to look like an improvised explosive device * - in his own words he stated that he had done things to make it less suspicious (I'll try and find the video, but I believe it was taken down). It was a deliberate attempts to goad an overreaction to a stupid stunt. It was successful in doing so.
* since most people have never seen a real life improvised explosive device, it doesn't matter that it could be used as such. It looks like one to the average person, less actual explosive materiel.
In a similar vein, considering the black guy who shot and killed co-workers (on camera) simply because he saw racism where none existed: this stunt plays into that. While it may not have been the goal of this none-too-bright kid, the so-called adults in our society created the racial narrative.
That clock was da bomb!
I liked the part where you turned off the alarm by clipping the green wire....or was it the red one?
"okay, cutting the blue one." "I'm too old for this ....!"
-tg
A perfectly executed publicity stunt. He likely couldn't get into MIT with his grades and test scores, but he's in easily now.
Was the arrest really overkill though? He was arrested for making a hoax bomb which is a crime in the state of Texas. Whether it was his actual intention or not, he was arrested and detained until they were able to do the investigation. Following the investigation he was released and charges dropped. Its how the criminal justice system works in the US.
I saw the same video as you. He said that he has the wire sticking out of the case to make it look less suspicious. So he acknowledged that the device was suspicious.Quote:
in his own words he stated that he had done things to make it less suspicious
It is easy to say "this wouldn't have happened if a (insert skin color here) kid brought it in". Well that's not fair to say because a (insert skin color here) hasn't brought a suspicious bomb-looking device into school; or at least hasn't made it to the media like this incident did. I know that if I saw a suspicious Hollywood style looking bomb briefcase that I would call the police. I don't care what color skin the person has. What would have happened if the teachers looked at him with his box and though "wow that's suspicious, but he is Muslim, I don't want to come off as being politically incorrect and insensitive so I will just not say anything" and then it turned out to be a an actual explosive? I think Bill Maher said it very well in his talk about this incident https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGit-XltUB4
Here is the interview where he shows off his other "invention" which is just some other deconstructed electronic device.
Attachment 130601
And here is the "clock" invention
Attachment 130603
I wonder if you might be contradicting yourself a bit there. You say that he was arrested for making a hoax bomb and then you talk about what you might do if you saw a suspicious package. Either they thought it might be a bomb or they thought it was a hoax. Which is it? If it was thought to be a hoax then it seems to me that confirming that it was a hoax before arresting a child might have been the better course of action.Quote:
Originally Posted by dclamp
How does talking about what I would do if I saw a suspicious package contradict the fact that he was arrested for the hoax bomb offense? Either way it is a suspicious looking device; whether or not it was real or hoax doesn't make it look any less suspicious.
Because if it was known or thought to be a hoax then it was known not to be a bomb so whether or not it looks suspicious is quite irrelevant. Making a clock that looks suspiciously like a bomb is not making a hoax bomb because a hoax requires intent to deceive. If this kid did not intend to deceive anyone then it was not a hoax.Quote:
Originally Posted by dclamp
If anyone actually thought that this clock might be a bomb then it should have been treated as such. There were no measures taken to protect anyone from a possible explosion as far as I can tell, so it doesn't seem that anyone really thought it was, or might be, an actual bomb. At most, it appears that some people thought that others might possibly think that it was, or might be, a bomb. In that case, it seems that someone should have made some sort of effort to establish whether an actual hoax had taken place before taking the kid away in handcuffs.
I'd have to say that I agree with that assessment based on what little I have heard about this. I heard that one teacher told him not to show it around, which means that at least one teacher thought that it wasn't a bomb (you don't tell a kid to hide a bomb). So, some of the adults in the situation thought nothing of it, others seem to have been trying to "earn their salt." None seem to think that it really was a bomb, so what was it they were actually after?
Yes, yes it was. The fact you don't think so is worrying.Quote:
Was the arrest really overkill though?
A bomb requires more then some electronics, it actually requires some sort of explosive element of some sort, and that clock clearly didn't have any.
Also it was quite clear from the complete lack of panic by the police and teachers (i.e they didn't evacuate the school) that none of them believed it was a bomb either.
I'd almost agree with the assessment, but the intent was to provoke a reaction. He knew it looked like an explosive device, but did not portray it as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcilhinney
The way it played out, I think, reinforces the notion that he was provoking an extreme reaction. The first teacher thought nothing of it, the second clearly thought something should be done about it. While this is speculation, Ahmed was probably disappointed in the initial response, so played to the second teacher to get a response. Things then escalated from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Again, speculation, I don't think even the teachers were prepared for a police response. This kids prank got out of hand. When confronted by, probably, the principal, he probably showed no remorse and the threat of calling the police (possibly a bluff to demonstrate to Ahmed the seriousness of his prank) was carried out.
The Police will have strict protocols to adhere to in such situations. For example, the fire department when called to a fire, not obviously seeing one will thoroughly investigate through due diligence that there is no fire; this would likely include evacuation of buildings.
From the authorities (not school) perspective, a kid brings something that looks like an explosive device to school, but isn't on close inspection. Wouldn't due diligence expect that a thorough investigation take place? People who bomb places often don't just use a single bomb.
Also consider from another perspective: you are a parent with a child in that school. How would you react if your child came home with a story of how another kid brought something to class that looked like a bomb but the school did nothing? What do you think an appropriate response should be?
This 'clock' is one step shy of being a real explosive device. It's not hard to do that. But people don't do what this kid did because it will provoke an [over]reaction. What about a t-shirt with 'dynamite' printed on it in the style of an explosive vest? It's just a t-shirt, not a hoax, just a bit of fun. Try walking in a populated area like a mall like that.
I do wonder where all this - " intent was to provoke a reaction" stuff has come from.Quote:
I'd almost agree with the assessment, but the intent was to provoke a reaction. He knew it looked like an explosive device, but did not portray it as such.
Is there something i am missing here?, as from everything i have read hear and elsewhere nothing really suggest this apart from peoples opinions and suspicions.
I don't know any child of 14, that thinks you know what would be fun, to get pulled out of class by the Police today and interrogated for 5 hours, and maybe i will get invited to the Whitehouse.
And if it was a stunt to get specifically invited to the Whitehouse well that's a far better stunt then i could have come up with at age 14.
Also a lot of people are commenting on the overreaction of the media and politicians, but if the school had just dealt with it internally maybe pulled Ahmed to one side and had a word with him privately and confiscated his clock (which they clearly didn't believe was a bomb) there would have been nothing for the media or anyone else to comment on!
If at any point, had the school truly believed it was a bomb - hoax or not - it would have been evacuated and the "suspicious device" would have been disposed with... I've been at school when hoax bomb threats have happened (seriously... in Jr High, someone called in a bomb threat just before the final period of the day because they weren't ready for a test they were to take... thinking they'd just let us go... yeah, no... we spend the next 2.5 hours out on the field in the blazing sun while they cleared the school. So instead of getting out early like they had hopped, we spent an extra 90 minutes there...)
-tg
Times they are a changin... We used to chase each other around the neighborhood with BB guns. Now kids can't bring in cupcakes with toy soldiers on them.
We might have to rethink the Zero Tolerance policies.
We'd get bomb threats on the first nice day each spring, and possibly the first few. Unlike a fire drill, bomb threats meant you got to stand outside for a lot longer. I don't think the building was ever searched with sufficient thoroughness to preclude there actually being a bomb, but the threats were responded to with some vigor, despite the fact that it was likely that all the teachers and administrators noticed the same pattern that the students noticed. They still went through the motions.
On the other hand, there are people who go over the top in responses. It's as if they don't have any kind of measured response.
I got to encounter that first-hand when I got talked into pulling a little prank at the office, which consisted of putting clear gatorade in the water cooler. I then left, and by the time I got back there was an FDA investigation underway. I called the FDA and told them that it was nothing but a joke. The agent thanked me for the call and told me that most of their investigations turn out to be over pranks. I got the strong impression that they were just marking time to see whether the issue went away, so that they could close the case without effort, as turned out to be the case. I also ended up calling the president of Culligan International, which was totally bizarre. They weren't nearly as amused as the FDA, but I just blamed the guy who overreacted in the first place, because that was a totally outsized response in an office packed with practical jokers. In fact, my buddy who talked me into this in the first place (it wasn't hard to talk me into it, of course) used the FDA call to try to make me sweat by claiming that they wanted a letter from somebody high up, but I wasn't buying it.
Somebody else in the office heard about this and promptly planned to put goldfish in the water with a sign saying "FDA Approved" on the cooler. I told him to wait until I was safely away from the office so that I couldn't be blamed for it. Of course, the guy who had reported the whole thing would have REALLY blown his stack if he realized we had run wires under the floor to some of the offices so that I could press buttons on a switchboard in my desk and set off various buzzers and sirens hidden in the other offices.
So... have the kid's parents filed the multi-million dollar lawsuit yet? You know it's coming.
You're right, it is speculation. But consider the options. There is an intent, but what is it? We all intend to do things, but sometimes the results are not what is expected. The simplest explanation, and most likely considering a 14 year old boy who can't see beyond their own sphere of importance, that it's a prank - he's smart enough to know what it looks like, but stupid enough to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
The fact that the police were called, blah, blah, blah, may well not have been part of that intent, but it was the result. Kids go out with the intent to get just a little buzzed on alcohol, but the result can be tragically different.
Conversely, what are the other options? That it was 'just a clock'? That it was a bomb hoax? That it was a bomb but he missed the bit about putting explosives in? I really can't see these to be likely. Are there any other intentions in doing such a thing?
Who knows? Why did Moti create an artificial girlfriend? Both are just creating things that seem...odd, from the outside. It's all just speculation without really being inside the head of the person doing it.
I know absolutely nothing about the Freedom Outpost but it's very name implies to me that it's probably not a particularly even handed source.
I thought I'd highlight this link which the Freedom Outpost quotes as a source. Anyone who knows anything about the Learned Protocols of Zion will recognise this for exactly what it is: a fabricated conspiracy intended to portray a target group as enemies of our society. Bluntly, I would give credence to absolutely nothing I read on either the Freedom Outpost or the Common Constitutionalist.
Yeah but its also citing other "news" media sources are also cited in that article. It might be bias, but I have read most of that information other places as well.
Yep. This is a country where a child can be suspended from school for eating part of a pop-tart so the rest of it somewhat resembles a gun.Quote:
Schools have a zero-tolerance on this sort of thing...
Pop-Tart ‘gun’ suspension: Seriously, folks?
Pop-tarts are known to be deadly.... only when eaten though!!!Quote:
Yep. This is a country where a child can be suspended from school for eating part of a pop-tart so the rest of it somewhat resembles a gun.
I am still amazed some of you are still defending this.Quote:
I don't think that the arrest was overkill at all. Schools have a zero-tolerance on this sort of thing and here are the steps:
If it truly had been a suspicious device or hoax bomb and the teachers believed that then why was the school not evacuated? why was the only action they took to punish the boy who brought the clock in?
Nobody is saying here that the school wasn't within its rights to deal with Ahmed and confiscate his clock and ask him some questions as to why he sought fit bring it in in the first place, but when you turn minor event like this into a call to the police, then you are essentially saying that stuff that isn't a crime but look a bit like one is also a crime, or at least should be investigated and dealt with like one.
Its like saying some one looks like they might have done something, i don't really believe that they have done it, but i am gonna treat them like they have, and scare them just to make sure they don't do anything in the future that might look illegal even if it isn't.
I think that it's clear that no one thought that it really was a bomb, at least not for more than a moment. It may be that the school staff thought that he was trying to make people think it was a bomb - maybe there even was an element of that, although it doesn't seem to be the original intent - and decided to punish him for that by calling the police. It seems to me that, if he was being uncooperative for whatever reason - it may have been fear - the sensible course of action would have been to get his parents involved first of all. I would think that calling the police would have been a last resort.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
I'm sort of in the middle on this. I'm going to number my thoughts, just because it'll help me organise them. I hope it doesn't come across as confrontational.
1. No offence DC, but I wouldn't give that source the time of day. The only things it links to are itself and one other site that reads like the worst sort of far right conspiracy site to me. That's not to say that some of the stuff on there isn't true, but I'd want to see some corroboration from more reputable sources before I made a judgement
2. I'm still not 100% clear on whether anyone genuinely believed it was a bomb or not. We've got folks asserting one way or the other in this thread and the various news links provided don't seem to be truly conclusive in either direction. I think most folks would agree that an arrest if the school and/or the police thought it was genuine would not be unreasonable but that "if" seems like a doubtful one.
3. A bomb hoax is a prosecutable offence. Any hoax that wastes the emergency services time is prosecutable. When I was at school a bunch of kids called the fire brigade out. They weren't arrested because nobody was able to tell who'd placed the call at the time but the call recordings were subsequently listened to, the kids were identified and their parents were prosecuted and had to pay a substantial fine (the kids were also suspended but that's by the by). If this was a deliberate hoax (and that sounds like the most likely explanation to me) then I'm 50/50 as to whether it should have resulted in an arrest (that's really down to police discretion) but I have no real doubt that it should have resulted in some kind of prosecution. An arrest might have been overkill but I don't think the kid is in much of a position to complain about it - we reap what we sow.
4. As per usual with these stories, I'm not seeing anything that really indicates that race/religion was an issue. Whenever something like this comes up the left declare loudly that the police/army/bus conductors are all racists while the right declare loudly that all Muslims are a security threat that needs to be stamped out forthwith. Neither side ever bothers spending much time looking for evidence of whether a WASP would be more or less likely to engage in such activity or whether they would be treated any differently as a result.
So I don't know where I stand on this. It sounds to me like it was probably badly handled but I'd hesitate to lionise this kid either. He was probably just an idiot kid whose prank turned out to be way more successful than he bargained.
Surely the fact that nobody thought that evacuating the school was necessary tells you all you need to know. Ask yourself if you thought something MIGHT be a bomb at a school what would be the very first thing you would do?Quote:
I'm still not 100% clear on whether anyone genuinely believed it was a bomb or not.
The kid shouldn't be lionised, it just an over-reaction to an over-reaction.Quote:
So I don't know where I stand on this. It sounds to me like it was probably badly handled but I'd hesitate to lionise this kid either.
The whole thing is ridiculous, we shouldn't even be having to talk about it as it should have been just dealt with by the school, not the Police and not the Media.
Probably but funny things happen when people are panicking. And even if it was recognised as a hoax that doesn't necessarily preclude an arrest.Quote:
Surely the fact that nobody thought that evacuating the school was necessary tells you all you need to know
I think that's pretty much my take on it. It was probably badly handled but if you play this sort of prank you should probably expect to get invited to the police station before you get invited to the White House. I think it's mostly a case of various pressure groups (on both sides of the debate) making mountains of molehills because they think it helps them make a point.Quote:
it just an over-reaction to an over-reaction
Well, at least the article covered the real danger of pop-tarts. I can't eat those things anymore, and probably shouldn't have eaten them ever. They were a source of gobs of calories for hiking, but now they just cause heartburn.Quote:
Originally Posted by homer13j
Ha! Called this one two months ago...
“Clock Kid’s” Family Demand Apology, $15 Million In Damages
It's the American way.
Yeah I hope it goes to trial so we can hear the school district and police side. So far we have only hear the story from his side and what his family wants us to hear.
Sadly, the city will probably settle before it goes to court.
"Dear citizens:Quote:
Originally Posted by dclamp
We have recently been charged with a $15 million bill that we need to pay. Unfortunately, our police department doesn't have that kind of cash laying around, and may have to reduce our operating expenses significantly. That is, we will reduce our police force by 60% and operate between the hours of 8am to 4pm. We will, however, be able to operate on Saturday.
The alternative is that you contribute to the 'Feed and Unite for the Clock Kid, Ahmed' fund. We need to give him $15 million. I'm sure you believe this to be a worthy cause. While donations of anything other than cash would be appreciated, unfortunately Ahmed's family have demanded that only American dollars will suffice. If you are unable to donate, a card or note expressing your sentiment can be forwarded to the family.
Sincerely,
Chief of Police"