Farewell?

VBF is nearly dead by the looks of it.

What will happen to the HUGE archive of programming knowledge that VBF (in its various incarnations) has accumulated over the last couple of decades? It would be tragic for it all to be forgotten and end up on the waybackmachine, or wherever such things end up.

Millions of man-hours of didactic effort all generated for free and what will become of it?

*sigh*

Thank you VBF for many happy and helpful years. I can honestly say that I learned to do computer programming right here. I hope I helped a few others to do the same along the way. Thank you to all of the other users that I got to know well and ended up being good friends with. Some are no longer with us, many I have lost touch with but all I still remember fondly. I wish you all well.





"And I still didn't pay more!" -- Noteme.

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It is hard to not notice the decline in activity, but I still enjoy the website. In fact, that is why I became a moderator... to contribute to a forum that I like and has helped me progress so much.

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Fair enough. How would you respond to my question?

The loss of Battle Programming, alone, would be hard to take. Fortunately, I have a copy on my computer.

If VBF participation is declining, and it does seem to be. What is not? The need for information isn't in decline, and the languages on here are certainly common enough. SO can't be picking up everything can it?

Wossname, just because you're leaving doesn't mean the rest of us will go with you;)

The site and data aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

We have a few sister sites that get 3 or 4 posts a week, yet their home page get a lot of traffic... Those sites are still a valuable asset and aren't going anywhere either.

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Originally Posted by Steve R Jones

Wossname, just because you're leaving doesn't mean the rest of us will go with you;)

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I'll stick my head around the door from time to time, just to see if I can finally win the post race :)

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Originally Posted by Steve R Jones

The site and data aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

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I'm relieved that the site isn't about to vanish (as sometimes happens when sites become stagnant (for want of a better word).

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Originally Posted by Steve R Jones

We have a few sister sites that get 3 or 4 posts a week, yet their home page get a lot of traffic... Those sites are still a valuable asset and aren't going anywhere either.

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Just out of interest, how many bytes of content (threads, tutorials, attachments etc) have been uploaded to VBF since the beginning?

Without the top posters here I know VBF will almost be dead though I really hope it won't happen anytime soon. I have been here exactly 10 years and have learned a lot and I actually learned something new in my last thread. This is the only place I turn to whenever I have programming problems, I will be brokenhearted if this site will cease to exist already.

There might be a lot of reasons why participation has declined, though I realize that wasn't the question.

There are certainly more places for people to post questions now. For that matter Visual Basic continues to decline in popularity as it has for a long time.

I get the feeling that a lot of people have retired and move on to other things, a lot have been displaced from programming jobs by the still-unrecovered economy and offshoring trends and such. Others have moved to different platforms, such as the current mobile giants (iOS, Android, Chrome OS) or straight-up web development. So that removes most of the professionals and LOB coders from the equation.

Then with the loss of interest in programming as a hobby, which might have accounted for the bulk of posting in recent times... there isn't a whole lot left.

I'm seeing some of this in other quarters as well. The local "gem and minerals" club has seen a precipitous decline as members age out, and membership is a fraction of what it was just 4 years ago. Most group field trips to interesting hunting grounds are down to 3 or 4 people, and the rare 20-something who shows up seems to chafe under presentations on taxonomy, crystal habit, flame testing techniques, ... pretty much everything.

I assume most people are off passively consuming multimedia or at best making cute kitty videos to post to YouTube. As literacy continues to decline those will only see more growth.

I still have another year until I have been here for 10 years. Looks like the same for dilettante.

I haven't been here from the beginning, but have been here long enough to see a good part of the hayday and how much fun it was. I only wish I was a little bit older at that time to really understand and make the best of it for myself as well.

I remember talking to many VBFers on MSN and AIM when we were not on here chatting. Those were good times.

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Originally Posted by dilettante

I get the feeling that a lot of people have retired and move on to other things, a lot have been displaced from programming jobs by the still-unrecovered economy and offshoring trends and such. Others have moved to different platforms, such as the current mobile giants (iOS, Android, Chrome OS) or straight-up web development. So that removes most of the professionals and LOB coders from the equation.

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Where do you get THAT from??? While I would agree that lots of coders are targetin iOS and Android, coding itself never had a recession and is red hot. Coders experienced full employment during the recession, and are seeing some great wage inflation (at least, I think it's pretty great...pretty great for me, anyways). There have been articles on the high demand for programmers in such places as The Economist to NPR. There is no reason to be down on the profession at this time, but it may be reasonable to be negative about some specific sector.

By the way, people are talking like the lights are going out. That's far from the case. In CC, all we've lost are some marginal personalities who started wacky, or inflammatory, threads with their unusual versions of reality. We've lost a few of the wackier, though sane, posters in CC, but that may just be because the site itself has aged. When I started, nobody could say they had been there for 10 years, people were discussing Megatron topping 10,000 posts, and other such things that only apply to a young forum.

Now there are people who have been here for 10 years...and they aren't the oldest of the old. I don't consider myself an original member, but I'm up around 13 years and passed 10,000 posts many years ago. For those who have been around for a long time, we probably know a fair amount about each other. The site is like an old shoe, worn and comfortable. This makes it harder for new people to break into the nuttiness of CC with a bunch of graybeards hanging around (though many are actually too young to have real gray). We may simply be creating a more staid CC than there was of old.

As to the main forums, there does appear to be a decline, but what happens when school starts again? This site is better for those new to programming, and those who want a conversation. SO has lots of good examples that are accessible, but SO is pretty horrible for talking through a problem, and very unforgiving for newbies.

Maybe things shouldn't be so funereal in tone. Times are changing, not ending.

Lets start an advertising campaign. Lets get some billboards up in major cities!

That looks like a perfect place to put the billboard!

There is a house on stilts where that point is dropped.

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I'll start one in Venice.

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Are you from there? Are you a venice-son? Oh Deer!

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Are you from there? Are you a venice-son? Oh Deer!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPrI8db74kA

-tg

I joined not too long ago, well, not long enough ago to remember a "heyday". I think since the installment of these forums (and a lot of other I used to frequent) a lot has changed in regards to availability of content online. Content is now more ubiquitous and there are a lot more communities that scale out to a one-stop shop (reddit, stackoverflow, blogs). Combine that with declining PC base to use VB.NET apps on as well as a declining base in regards to language, you have what seems to be a "perfect storm" to explain the inactivity.

If VB.NET apps could be built straight to iOS and Android (without the Xamarin junk in the middle), I guarantee that would be the hottest forum on here. Instead, VB.NET has failed to keep pace and that is basically all Microsoft's doing (or undoing?).

Anyhow, I love this forum and the people that frequent it. I know that VBForums has built its own brand, however, I hope that perhaps the site will refocus to a more active user base and language (in time).

- Lose the bulky 'Bulletin Board' look. Clean/Fresh/Modern/Easy to Use.
- Better/Faster/Smarter tagging/indexing
- Better Reputation System

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Originally Posted by techgnome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPrI8db74kA

-tg

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Well played, tg.

I know my participation has lessen here over the last couple of years. Sadly I can pin point the exact problem - cynicism. I've become too cynical for my own good. I'm frustrated feels like an apathetic, lackadaisical mind set of some of the younger generation. Some I can deal with... others... not so much. It's probably a good thing they weren't around some 20-30 years ago when some of us longer in the tooth were just starting out. We didn't have the interwebnetubes to help us a long. I just done done with a thread where the reply was "didn't work. thanks though"... da-fu??? Sigh. There are some days I look forward to being able to put in my notice. It's just not going to be able to happen as quickly as I'd like.

Luckily this Friday is payday, I may be able to do a recipe test this weekend.

-tg

TG, I don't see you getting exasperated that often. And on the rare occasions where I get exasperated it's usually you who's able to step in and chill me out again. We all get exasperated once in a while but there's enough of us long-tooths around to keep each respectable. One of the things I've always liked about this forum is that we will tolerate a modicum of idiocy. Compare that to Stack Overflow and we look positively charming.

I did see the thread you've just stepped out of, though. I think he's just out of depth and not sure even how to use the IDE - reminds me of a similar thread I may have partaken in recently, though I think I showed considerably less restraint than you did. :rolleyes:


Wossy, I have to say that if you are leaving you'll be sorely missed. I don't think we've ever crossed over much in the main forums but in CC your mildly acerbic disdain for us lesser mortals exactly matches you avatar - a haughty cat with frickin' lasers for eyes (OK, I know they're not lasers but it suits the image). You've made me laugh in ways unsuitable to a work environment.

My problem is close to cynicism. In fact, it's cyanicism...I'm just a bit blue.

(that's not true, of course, I just wanted to get in some color commentary)

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

TG, I don't see you getting exasperated that often. And on the rare occasions where I get exasperated it's usually you who's able to step in and chill me out again. We all get exasperated once in a while but there's enough of us long-tooths around to keep each respectable. One of the things I've always liked about this forum is that we will tolerate a modicum of idiocy. Compare that to Stack Overflow and we look positively charming.

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You don't see it because I end up passing up threads where I just know I'm going to be looking for a length of rope. Sometimes discretion is the part of valor. Often what I'll do is write what I have to say, minimize the browser, come back sometime later, delete what I wrote and move on.

-tg

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Often what I'll do is write what I have to say, minimize the browser, come back sometime later, delete what I wrote and move on.

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Yeah, I've done that, too. And I've seen other folks say the same as well. But the way I see it, we're probably going to have a wade through a few lost causes if we're going to find the causes worth supporting. Actually, it's probably going to be ALOT of lost causes.

I've got to admit that becoming a mod has seriously upped my own level of cynicism. There are a lot of folks who come on here who are lazy or just don't get it but I can cope with them. As a mod, though, I find myself exposed to some kids with a SERIOUS sense of entitlement that really grates on me. Thankfully there seem to be very few of those individuals but they up my frustration way more than all the lazy folks put together. When I see someone come on the forum, get bucket loads of help and still sling mud at anyone who did hand them the world on a plate I do find myself wanting to open up with both barrels.

Hats off to DDay. He's much better at handling it than me.

I expect to come across difficult cases when I see a thread with like 100 views and 0 replies. It's tough to repeat the same things day in and day out. The toughest ones are the busy loops, screen scrapers and open-ended questions with no detail other than "it doesn't work".

I try to give the help back to the community, because the community originally enabled me and gave me a leg up when I first started programming in 2012. Looking back, I had some really dumb questions that begged me to read the manual, poor jmc. Members here helped me realized it's more about the programming journey than just the destination, and it seems that journey is never ending.

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I try to give the help back to the community, because the community originally enabled me and gave me a leg up when I first started programming in 2012. Looking back, I had some really dumb questions that begged me to read the manual, poor jmc. Members here helped me realized it's more about the programming journey than just the destination, and it seems that journey is never ending.

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Beautifully put! I couldn't agree more with this.

Yeah, but when he said "gave me a leg up", I couldn't help but think of the relationship between dog and fire hydrant.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Wossy, I have to say that if you are leaving you'll be sorely missed. I don't think we've ever crossed over much in the main forums but in CC your mildly acerbic disdain for us lesser mortals exactly matches you avatar - a haughty cat with frickin' lasers for eyes (OK, I know they're not lasers but it suits the image). You've made me laugh in ways unsuitable to a work environment.

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This gave me pause for thought. Recently I began learning a language I'd never looked into before and realised that I've got my dusty old (but strangely familiar) newbie hat on once more. I've been posting noobish questions on one or two forums outside of VBF (because VBF doesn't have one for this language, and likely never will) but I have not been giving help back. I feel a little guilty and have some ground to make up. I'll stick my head into the tech forums on VBF to see if I can re-balance the Force.

And PS, there is no lesser mortal than I.*






* I don't mean that. I'm pretty great.

OK, maybe I should have said "disdain for non Linux users"

Part of the work I do involves a large-scale configurable software product that supports glue scripting, add-in APIs, and external APIs. So there are lots of programming questions entailed in learning to use it. For that reason the vendor operates a private, invitation-only forum for both authoritative and user community support.

The bar for entry is pretty low, basically if you download and register their SDK you're a member.


As far as I know they have always had a user-to-user subforum at the site they call The Kids' Table.

There you can ask anything, though if it isn't too hopeless your thread generally gets moved to another appropriate forum. However the majority of these question threads end up with a fairly perfunctory reply and a link to the online page of the product documentation, usually with a little guidance making them better than a curt RTFM.

Almost everyone is happy with this, and even old hands have no fear of asking a "dumb question" there about a topic new to them. After all the idea is to get some pointers on where to begin if you are a beginner at something.

Of course they are pretty strict when it comes to moderation there. The mods are allowed to summarily delete any threads that get out of hand with flaming or an excessive sense of entitlement. They can also move a thread to The Kids' Table without providing any justification.

Kids' Table threads are deleted by the system after 30 days of inactivity, and since they are not indexed and have "robots noindex, nofollow" meta-tags it also helps keep the site search clean.


It seems to work great, but it is a closed community too. That doesn't mean there aren't some members who rail against it periodically in their equivalent of Chit-Chat. They usually don't last long though.

Just try ElitistJerks for world of warcraft...that's a forum which tolerates zero crap. They don't even point you to the manual. Ban hammer. Bosh! Gone.

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Originally Posted by wossname

I'll stick my head into the tech forums on VBF to see if I can re-balance the Force.

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So this means you are not waving goodbye from the caboose?

I have to say I would like more time to get to know you.
As a newer member of VBF I would like to get to know everyone better.

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Originally Posted by Gruff

I have to say I would like more time to get to know you.
As a newer member of VBF I would like to get to know everyone better.

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Me too!

Is there anything us relative newcomers can do to help VBF be a more enjoyable place? (Besides avoiding threads like "What if there was a new VB6", obviously... :rolleyes: )

We could email you a slice now and then.

Now there's a cool business idea.

Some national Pizza chain should offer gift pizza slices and beer you can purchase on line for others...

No physical gift card required.

The icing on the cake would be if they offered video chat for the giver and receiver. Imagine sitting down to share pizza and beer while in two different cities!

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Originally Posted by Tanner_H

Me too!

Is there anything us relative newcomers can do to help VBF be a more enjoyable place? (Besides avoiding threads like "What if there was a new VB6", obviously... :rolleyes: )

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The "enjoyability" hasn't really changed. There's just fewer opportunities to do so since everyone left.

I did a rant just now...
http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...83#post4910583

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Originally Posted by Gruff

We could email you a slice now and then.

Now there's a cool business idea.

Some national Pizza chain should offer gift pizza slices and beer you can purchase on line for others...

No physical gift card required.

The icing on the cake would be if they offered video chat for the giver and receiver. Imagine sitting down to share pizza and beer while in two different cities!

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You can't email certain types of pizza. Because of ARP -- the Anchovy Removal Protocol.

VBF isnt going anywhere and can be what it once was as there are still new members always joining up. As long as members put some effort into it, it can become what it once was. This is home and always will be. People get busy, change jobs or whatnot but they always return.

Since VBF's beginning it was one of the handful of sources around with a great friendly community. Now there is everything from lots of competing forums, facebook groups to youtube videos etc. I wouldnt say its dying, just not the only show in town anymore. The people make up the community here and that cant be replicated via most other venues. If some members arent happy with its current state then why not take action to fix it? :)

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

If some members arent happy with its current state then why not take action to fix it?

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Sounds suspiciously like work. :eek:

Lots of names have gone away, but lots of interesting characters have also joined up. It seems like Gruff has been around for a long time, as well as DDay, but heck, DDay wasn't even born when this forum started (don't believe any of that nonsense about him being married and having a kid, even if it's true it's because he lives in Louisiana).

What we have lost are some of the marginal personalities. I won't mention any names, because some of them lurk. It would take a fairly old person to remember the, now deleted, immigration thread that once rivaled the post race...except with vitriolic vinegar added. I think I remember who started that, and they haven't been around for a decade, but I may have the name wrong, so I won't say it. Some of those folks started lengthy, and even heated, threads on various subjects. Things are a bit more staid now, and that's not a bad thing for a developer site.

All we need to get things riled up again would be the right instigator. Somebody not just willing to throw out off-the-wall, yet sincere, opinions, but willing to back them up, too.

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Originally Posted by Gruff

Sounds suspiciously like work. :eek:

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Nawh, work is not work when its something you enjoy, that would then be a hobby

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I tried to bring back the contests, and the first one we had a huge participation... but the second one we had one submission :(

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You cant be 100% successful all the time. Thats not the definition of a programmer. lol. Maybe it was the topic or content etc. for the second one

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

...All we need to get things riled up again would be the right instigator. Somebody not just willing to throw out off-the-wall, yet sincere, opinions, but willing to back them up, too.

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So you are suggesting to perform a ritual to raise the banned? :eek2:

:lol:

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

So you are suggesting to perform a ritual to raise the banned? :eek2:

:lol:

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When un-dead, go to the source.

-tg