CAHSEE Standardized Testing is stupid. I hate it.

First of all, let me say that what you are about to read is me venting over a standardized test.

I have to take the CAHSEE standardized test in February. The book that I am reading says these standardized tests do not measure your academic achievements. If anything, they measure how well you can take a standardized test. I hear that there is no relationship between academic achievement and standardized test scores. There does seem to be an associative relationship between poverty levels and standardized test scores.

So why do they do it? So politicians can express "concern" over test scores, lying about test scores reflecting on a student's education.

Ehh... there are worse things in our school system (particularly in CA) than standardized exit exams. Never had to take CAHSEE, but it seems to have pretty high passing percentages and can be taken multiple times. Some tests can certainly be arbitrary, but others are so basic that - yes - there should be concern if you cannot pass them.

Whether the test is intellectually challenging or not, an intellect would recognise what was required to pass the challenge set.

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There does seem to be an associative relationship between poverty levels and standardized test scores.

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Not entirely sure where you're getting your statistics from, but poverty doesn't always go hand in hand with stupidity.

No... but poverty does go hand in hand with lack of funding, which does have a serious impact on the quality of schools. that's something we're struggling with as we try to find a home to buy here... there's three school districts here... and they are not equal. One is slightly better than the second, but both are definitely better than the third, by a lot. So we're doing our best to stay in one of the other two.

FYI- there's a difference between being dumb and being stupid. You can't fix stupid. Dumbness can be fix with some knowledge.

-tg

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Originally Posted by techgnome

You can't fix stupid

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Thank you Ron White! :D

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Originally Posted by techgnome

No... but poverty does go hand in hand with lack of funding, which does have a serious impact on the quality of schools.

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That makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by techgnome

that's something we're struggling with as we try to find a home to buy here... there's three school districts here... and they are not equal. One is slightly better than the second, but both are definitely better than the third, by a lot. So we're doing our best to stay in one of the other two.

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Just curious...what state do you live in? If you're not forced to live in an overregulatory state like California, then count your lucky stars.

You call that a rant!??!!??! That was barely a whimper. When you get into a full-blown-bull-moose-foaming-and-roaring rant, you can tell because there are pauses in the writing

where the person had to squeegee to get the spittle off the screen. IT MIGHT EVEN DEGENERATE INTO AN ALL CAPS SEMI-COHERENT GROWLING AT THE PERFIDITY OF IT ALL!!! Yours was more of the "please sir, could you be a little more kind?" type of rant. You just didn't sell the audience on your tunnell-vision, eye-bulging, anger. It was more like one of those old British movies and you were sitting there in the smoking club, ascot ever-so-slightly askew, holding up a smallish cup of tea (no milk), with one finger raised. Then, just before taking a sip, you paused, a slight tremor caused the surface of the tea to ripple very slightly, and you started out with, "I say chaps, don't mean to be a bore with this terrible rant of mine, but do you think that standardized testing....well, perhaps it isn't all that?"

Heck, my rant about your rant was a better ranting that your ranting ever dreamed of being. As for the subject of your rant: They do it because they want to quantify things so that you can say that A > B without somebody else being able to say that you're a lying weasel with dungarees for brains. The fact that standardized tests don't do a particularly accurate job of quantifying learning is entirely subjugated to the fact that they do quantify. If there was a better tool that could produce one number, it would be used, but so many groups want that one number so badly that they would rather use a tool with known, obvious, discriminatory, damaging, flaws than use no tool at all.

On the other hand, I'd have to say that it works both ways. I hate to study, and always have. That made me a fairly mediocre student in college, because I didn't want to spend more than half an hour studying for any test (and even that was only for the toughest tests, 15 minutes was what I tried for). Fortunately, I test VERY well, so I could go pretty much anywhere I wanted for grad school.

Heck it's not even the most unfair part of the system. You mentioned poverty, but here are a couple other factors that have been shown to result in preferential treatment: Gender, height, race, beauty, and weight. I've got all of those going for me except (unfortunately) for the fourth one. How much difference has that made on my life? How is that even close to being fair?

We use all kinds of rule's of thumb to make evaluations. The standardized test is used, not because it is perfect, or even particularly good, but because it is there. Lots of things in life suck. If this one bothers you so much, find a replacement for it that does the same job (produces a single number) and works better. Otherwise, just chalk it up to another failing of the human race. The fault, moonman, is not in our politicians, but in ourselves.

I passed the CAHSEE the first time. :) That makes you a sophomore in high school, correct?

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

The standardized test is used, not because it is perfect, or even particularly good, but because it is there. Lots of things in life suck. If this one bothers you so much, find a replacement for it that does the same job (produces a single number) and works better. Otherwise, just chalk it up to another failing of the human race. The fault, moonman, is not in our politicians, but in ourselves.

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This whole CAHSEE thing reminds me of the book "Ender's Game," which I am currently reading.

I think there's a better way. They just don't care. They want to stick to standardized testing, just like the federal government wants everyone to go to a pharmacy for their medicine instead of buying holistic medicine.

What's the better way? If it doesn't result in a single number, I don't think it will gain any traction.

Part of it is that they want to make sure someone in SoCal is getting the same "education" as someone in Harlem, who is getting the same "education" in Dallas... so how do you ensure you're preparing students nationally to the same level to (hopefully) prepare them for college? When I was in school, we had the CSAT (Calif Scholastic Aptitude Test) ... it's given at different levels... starting in the 4th grade... all the way through Sr yr in HS. It was given to everyone across the state to ensure that schools across the state are teaching consistently the same stuff. It has its pros and cons. It sounds like the CAHSEE might be national version of the same thing, an attempt at the national level to make sure that everyone is teaching consistently across the board. The problem with such testing though, is that too often funding is then tied to test scores... now instead of testing what's being taught, teachers resort to teaching what's on the test... which is an even bigger detriment (IMHO) than no testing, does the students and the teachers a disservice.

-tg

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CAHSEE might be national version of the same thing

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CAHSEE is CAlifornia High School Exit Exam.

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I think there's a better way. They just don't care.

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At the very least they care that you and every other high school student becomes a productive member of society; the exit exam attempts to ensure that you have the basic level of knowledge to do so, nothing more really.

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They want to stick to standardized testing, just like the federal government wants everyone to go to a pharmacy for their medicine instead of buying holistic medicine.

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That makes me cringe...