Learning a new language [serious]

I've always wanted to learn more languages. Currently, I think I'm very proficient with English which I've been learning since first grade, and during 4 years of high school I learned German as well, but it's nothing I'd brag about. I can understand very little of what I hear and read, but I can't converse.

Ideally, what I'd like to learn as well is Russian, French, Italian and Chinese. These past few weeks I've been contemplating to start Chinese, but there are a few problems. First, there isn't a very large Chinese population here and I've found only a few schools list it in their program, and one of them clearly noted that due to low interest they aren't able to organize a large enough group to do it. For that same reason I'll have no private interaction or a way to further my knowledge outside the school. And secondly, I'm a bit scared. I've been quite good at learning new languages, but I've read that to be able to use (read/write) the language proficiently you need to know at least 4000-5000 characters. Now that not only looks scary, but impossible as well.

So, what do you guys think? What languages do you speak (as a second language)? Did anyone learn Chinese (Mandarin) or a similar (Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese) as a second language? How hard was it?

I tried learning Japanese, which is supposedly easier than Chinese. While I didn't find it particularly tough, I lost interest due to some other factors. It does take a few years to become profficient in, though.

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Originally Posted by baja_yu

And secondly, I'm a bit scared. I've been quite good at learning new languages, but I've read that to be able to use (read/write) the language proficiently you need to know at least 4000-5000 characters. Now that not only looks scary, but impossible as well.

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Most of those "characters" are formed from a smaller set of glyphs which are easier to learn and the formation of the character from glyphs is somewhat logical.

For example the character 中 (Zhong) means middle but that same glyph appears in lots of other words e.g. 种 钟 肿 仲

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Originally Posted by Merrion

For example the character 中 (Zhong) means middle but that same glyph appears in lots of other words e.g. 种 钟 肿 仲

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The symbol would probably change the meaning depending on where it was located in a sentence.

chinese has more than 10,000 chars maybe 50000.
as for japanese you will enjoy learning it, there are loads of resources free online, and using theire kanji chars you could communicate with chinese which also use kanji. they have the game go, sushi, wagami, fast internet without restrictions like in china, and cheap high quality electronics, tv shows and movies , origami, pupet theater.

I guess you already know spanish. when new technology appears the first walkthroughs I see are in spanish.

french : I have been there : friendly pigeons terrible food.

Italian : nice buildings but thats pretty much it

there is no big secret to learning a language : just plow through it 3 - 9 years a little bit per day

remember this : every where the people are the same, the sky are the same

If you speak English then you already speak all languages. You just repeat the English louder and slower. It's been working for us natives for centuries:bigyello:

Have you tried Rosetta Stone? I've heard from from freinds that their courses are very good.

Well, if you already speak spanish than learning italian and french may be easier for you since they're all romance languages. IIRC Chinese is one, if not the most, of the hardest languages to learn.

You must weigh the effort of learning with the odds of retention I think. If you want to learn Chinese and realistically will never use it in real life, retaining the language will be difficult. We all know that languages if unused are forgotten; or at least proficiency level seriously decreased.

If you do learn new languages and fear you will lose retention, you may want to subscribe to a language-specific medium (print, radio, tv, social network, pen pals, etc) just to keep you challenged and sharp.

Why Chinese ?

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Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers

Why Chinese ?

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Future job security? :eek:

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Originally Posted by baja_yu

I've always wanted to learn more languages. Currently, I think I'm very proficient with English which I've been learning since first grade, and during 4 years of high school I learned German as well, but it's nothing I'd brag about. I can understand very little of what I hear and read, but I can't converse.

Ideally, what I'd like to learn as well is Russian, French, Italian and Chinese. These past few weeks I've been contemplating to start Chinese, but there are a few problems. First, there isn't a very large Chinese population here and I've found only a few schools list it in their program, and one of them clearly noted that due to low interest they aren't able to organize a large enough group to do it. For that same reason I'll have no private interaction or a way to further my knowledge outside the school. And secondly, I'm a bit scared. I've been quite good at learning new languages, but I've read that to be able to use (read/write) the language proficiently you need to know at least 4000-5000 characters. Now that not only looks scary, but impossible as well.

So, what do you guys think? What languages do you speak (as a second language)? Did anyone learn Chinese (Mandarin) or a similar (Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese) as a second language? How hard was it?

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I can read and write French, but I am terribly poor at speaking it for the same reasons you mentioned. I learned French in high school, so that helped a bit. I rarely practice so I am crap at it. With tools like google translate, it has helped a bit.

If you start off with a latin based language, it is easier to pick up another latin based language. Something like Chinese, Japanese, Hindi or Russian would require you to take more effort. One way of learning is through the process of immersion. You need to move to a japanese neighborhood. It's easier to pick up a language that way.

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Originally Posted by needsomeanswers

why chinese ?

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Originally Posted by lavolpe

future job security? :eek:

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+1 :d

The problem I had when trying to learn Chinese was with tones; you can say "ma," but depending on the tone you use, it can mean several different things. Well, I'm kind tone deaf, so...

I'd agree with LaVolpe too: I don't think it's worth the effort to learn a language if you won't be able to retain it with enough usage.

Actually, I don't know Spanish (regardless of my avatar :) ). My first Language is Serbian which is a Slavic language like Russian.

I'm not selecting a language based on the country or people, but by personal interest. If there are patterns to composing the glyphs like Merrion said then it wont be as hard. The thing that gives me hope is that 1.3 billion people managed to learn it :), and that with computers nowadays there are systems like Pinyin to transcribe chinese characters with latin and also use it as an input system.

But like LaVolpe said, it will be very little worth if I don't find a way to use it in every day life, or I'll quickly forget most of what I learn in school. Luckily my English skills are excellent that I feel ok to take courses in English, not just make native tongue, so some online courses might be in play as well. But, the downside of online courses is that they can't tell me if I'm pronouncing or doing something wrong.

If Chinese is so difficult to learn then maybe the Chinese should switch to a different language. I was looking at this wikipedia aritcle on literacy rates for different countries. On the given list the US has 99% literacy and China has 95.9% literacy. Perhaps part of the reason that China has 3 % lower literacy is because Chinese is so difficult to learn.

List of countries by literacy rate

Looking at that list I thought it was surprising that Egypt is only at 66.4 % literacy. I'm no expert on Egypt but I'd think it would be higher. India is rather low on literacy also at 74 %.

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I guess if it was so hard, I'd expect a much bigger illiteracy rate (if only that is taken as a reason).

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Perhaps part of the reason that China has 3 % lower literacy is because Chinese is so difficult to learn.

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I've read some articles to that effect, actually. Some linguists assert that the Chinese writing system will need to simplify (and far more-so than the already-initiated efforts) to survive.

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Originally Posted by EntityX

If Chinese is so difficult to learn then maybe the Chinese should switch to a different language. I was looking at this wikipedia aritcle on literacy rates for different countries. On the given list the US has 99% literacy and China has 95.9% literacy. Perhaps part of the reason that China has 3 % lower literacy is because Chinese is so difficult to learn.

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If I am reading that page correctly it is saying that the western world sucks when it comes to writing. :D

I have wanted to learn American Sign Language. I have learned some, and remember some, i want to become proficient at it. I have been told it is equally as hard as learning any spoken language.

Just like we have a ton in our voice, the way you sign something can change the meaning. And it isnt just a direct interpretation of English, it has its own grammar.

I think the "use it or lose it" point is possibly the most important here. I used to speak reasonable German when I lived in Germany, and I had a smattering of Serbo-Croat when I lived in Yugoslavia (as was), but to be honest, after all this time I doubt that I could understand anything said to me now in anything other than English.

I can still order a beer in enough languages to get by, though. :)

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Originally Posted by EntityX

... India is rather low on literacy also at 74 %.

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Looking at all the news items running in the newspapers, many Indian parents have probably decided not to educate their children. It will at least save them the blushes when they grow up.

Ignorance is bliss!

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Originally Posted by InvisibleDuncan

I think the "use it or lose it" point is possibly the most important here. I used to speak reasonable German when I lived in Germany, and I had a smattering of Serbo-Croat when I lived in Yugoslavia (as was), but to be honest, after all this time I doubt that I could understand anything said to me now in anything other than English.

I can still order a beer in enough languages to get by, though. :)

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Where did you live in Yugoslavia (and when)?

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Originally Posted by baja_yu

Where did you live in Yugoslavia (and when)?

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I was in Belgrade - Bulevar JNA, not far from the Red Star stadium. I was there (during school holidays) between 1986 and 1987.

I live about 50 mile from Belgrade, and visit quite often. How did you like it (back then)? I image it was very different at that time, I was only 3 yo.

Stop making me feel old!

I really enjoyed Belgrade; despite all the communist grey in the buildings I thought it was a charming city - plenty of green areas, the river, the reservoir for midnight swims - and the people were great. It was also the only place I've lived that had an open-air nightclub, which was fantastic.

I was 16-17 when I was there, and it was a great place to be a teenager. Everywhere was accessible by tram if it wasn't within walking distance, and taxis were really cheap. This meant we could drive into town and not worry about having too much to drink as we could always abandon the car wherever we were and still get home easily.

Oh, and it was also a very clean city, despite the heat that should have meant it was very dusty. There were huge trucks that came out every night from about 2am that would hose everywhere down. I once got a lift home in one of those - very friendly driver who wanted someone to practise his English on.

Hmmm........interesting... the literacy map shows USA as having more than 97% literacy.....and I thought they could barely speak english...

Eine baguette por favor!

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Originally Posted by arunb

Hmmm........interesting... the literacy map shows USA as having more than 97% literacy.....and I thought they could barely speak english...

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Being literate doesn't mean you have to know English. Just FYI.

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Am I reading that map correctly? Does it say that Afghanistan has >97% literacy?

Nope. Afghanistan is grey on the map, meaning no info. Close to it, with 90-97% are Jordan to the west, Kuwait and UAE south-west and Uzbekistan to the north. And Turkmenistan >97%.

Welcome back Shaggy. Were you on another one of your hikes?

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Originally Posted by baja_yu

Nope. Afghanistan is grey on the map, meaning no info. Close to it, with 90-97% are Jordan to the west, Kuwait and UAE south-west and Uzbekistan to the north. And Turkmenistan >97%.

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Oh yeah, I had the wrong country. I see it now.

@EntityX: Yeah, I was finishing the Colorado Trail. It was about 250-260 miles over the course of three weeks. Some pretty high elevations, and a bit of lightning. Not too bad, though, cause I'm here.