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Can Khalid Sheikh Mohammed receive a fair trial in New York?
Does he deserve what he's going to get, or should the American thirst for revenge and penchant for capital punishment be overruled by the United Nations on the grounds that it is impossible for him to receive a fair hearing in the US and force the trial to be held elsewhere?
Thoughts.....
any one who has ever hailed a cab in NYC can tell you that it is possible for him to get an impartial jury.
I'd like to see the trial held in LA (lower alabama)
Too bad we cannot torture people... Darn 8th amendment. He deserves the worst punishment. The videos i have watched about 9-11 are truly horrifying.... :(
Times like this I wish I was still a prison guard.... they cant fry the bastards soon enough
Finding twelve idiots in a major US city is not at all difficult... Look at the jury that acquitted OJ Simpson.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
One thing is for sure... Mohammed's lawyers will turn this thing into a circus. Should be interesting.
http://www.vbforums.com/images/ieimages/2009/05/1.gif
I think you'll find he's been tortured already. Quite a lot, I understand. Something like 183 waterboardings...?Quote:
Originally Posted by dclamp
Unfortunately, that may well mean that anything he "confessed" to since May 2003 could be rendered inadmissible as evidence.
If he hadn't included the World Trade Centre, but had attacked only the Pentagon and other military targets, would and should that have made a difference?
Yes, it a circus waiting to happen.
This should take people's mind off the healthcare debate for a while.
Surely we are not that soft... :blush:Quote:
Originally Posted by zaza
While I fully support him being tried in a civil court and in the US (you guys have a pretty good judicial record on the whole and I'm sure you're capable of giving him a fair trial - in spite of how parts of the media will inevitably portray this), the decision to hold it in New York, just down the road from the WTC does smack of revenge which isn't what a trial should be about.
I hope he gets a fair trial. From what I've seen he's almost certainly guilty (you can never be 100%) so an unfair one seems a little pointless.
The crime was committed in the US. It comes under US jurisdiction. The UN has nothing to do with it. I think the only place he will get a fair trial is in the US. If it had happened here I would want to be absolutely certain that we had found the right one not some scapegoat, and if he is found guilty I will be looking in the other direction while you do whatever it is you like to him.
While I agree that he must be tried in US, I would also say that the US better clean up the Guantánamo disgrace as fast as possible. In addition, it would be much better if he was tried a few months after his arrest and not several years later. It would also appear to be a fair trial if he had not been subjected to torture. I don't know whether he's guilty or not, shouldn't the "innocent until proven guilty" be assumed here?
An external observer without any personal feelings on the case might indicate that this is a show, a publicity stunt with the intent of throwing his bones to the demanding masses and satisfy the need for revenge.
Since this would be a jury trial, under what rock will they find people who are not biased in this case?
The only Jury I believe in this case would be the
THE JURY of 6 and JUDGE 'COLT'
Right up his .... :mad:
This is a war crime and should not be based in civil courts; nor have the same rights given to American citizens to have a trial judged by there piers.
This just creates further chaos. If treated as an average crime how many loopholes will there be, do only LE with juristication have the right to make an arrest, should they be set free if not given there miranda rights, how many hung juries or thrown out cases will prevail because classified information can not be discussed etc...
Again as I stated in a previous post as a former Prison Guard & Disabled Veteran I cant even picture where in a regular prison system you can house these guys. Either the guards and/or inmates will kill them (I certainly would have) or theyll wind up influencing the already to large muslim population in the prisons; again creating the potential for even further trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.Net
You worry too much. There are supermax prisons with isolation cells.
He'll be tried, convicted and executed, hopefully within the next 5 years.
You've just illustrated the issue rather succinctly. The purpose of a trial is to asses his guilt or innocence. Until you've assesed that you can't start assesing what the apropriate punishment should be. If you've pre-judged him before the trial (which you clearly have) then the trial is invalid.Quote:
The only Jury I believe in this case would be the
THE JURY of 6 and JUDGE 'COLT'
Right up his ....
No it isn't. And yes he should be given the same rights in so far as the right to a fair trial is concerned because, as I said above, the purpose of the trial is to asses guilt or innocence. The yardsticks for measuring that are universal. It has nothing to do with the nature of the crime or the background of the accused.Quote:
This is a war crime
America must not aproach this trial as an opportunity to exorcise it's demons. If, and only if, a fair trial finds him guilty (and I think it probably would from the evidence I've seen) then exorcise away and the world will support you.
America has a long history of successfully trying, convicting, and imprisoning terrorists. There are several in our prisons right now. In this case, however, the evidence is tainted, the jury pool is tainted, and it seems unlikely that the trial will be much more than a show. Still, he asked for a military tribunal and execution. The reason is clear enough, as a military conviction would be fodder for the cause. A civilian trial would be less so.
Affording this clown federally protected constitutional rights is a joke. He's not a citizen, therefore the constitution does not apply to him. Like it or not, this is a war crime and should be handled by military tribunal. He's being set up to get a lesser sentence so the chosen one doesn't make too much of a stink in the muslim world. The result of a military tribunal would be execution, federal trial will result in something much less "offensive" to our muslim friends.
I agree with you somewhat.Quote:
Originally Posted by demotivater
But I think you should hold your protests, until the trial ends. If he does gets that lesser sentence.
But I think he will be sentenced to death. I'm hoping for a quick turnaround in carrying it out.
Just killing him does nothing. He wont have to go through anything. If they lock him up in maximum security prison, he will have to sit there until he dies on his own. I think that is better punishment the just taking him out of his misery. Death is the easy way out.
@demotivator: anyone on american soil is subject to the constitution... unfortunately...
We are facing a similar situation at home with Mohd Ajmal Kasaab, the only terrorist ever caught in action, for the Mumbai attacks of 26/11 last year. People debate and wonder why go to such lengths to hold a proper trial, provide maximum security for him and things like that.
I believe this is what sets us apart from Taliban or Al Qaeda or any other fanatics. No matter what crimes he committed, no matter the severity of those crimes, as a nation we have set up a procedure to come at a punishment for those crimes. And that procedure must be followed.
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I couldn't agree more.Quote:
I believe this is what sets us apart from Taliban or Al Qaeda or any other fanatics
I assume that is what happens when you are in the dock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.Net
I don't think they deserve a fair trial, they aren't citizens here.
Yeah, that would set a lovely example for all the other countries who like to use show trials for foreign nationals.
My thought is send him back to Gitmo.Quote:
Originally Posted by zaza
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/8454804.stm
I think he should get the worst punishment. All of the thousands of people he killed... They didnt even do anything wrong! Not only the Twin Towers, but there was an airplane headed towards the white house! He should get the worst of all punishment. On top of that, he dosent seem to care what he did. Thats really scarry. However, what ever happens, he will end up getting what he deserves. In ****!
In order for this to be a war crime, and without getting into the whole "then it falls outside U.S jurisdiction" debate as a result, which war would you exactly be relating this one to? You may need to do some research on what constitutes a "war crime" according to International agreement as sanctioned by the U.N.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.Net
Just because they aren't US citizens doesn't mean they should not get a fair trial. The whole debate of the US laws not applying to the Gitmo inmates, in my opinion, simply makes matters worse for the US. You cannot have two sets of rules to try two sets of criminals, US and non-US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaq
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I don't think the US as a state gives a damn about the United Nations as far as such agreements are concerned (meaning where it goes against the US interests).Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiDexter
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Why not, we do in the UK. For example a British driver who causes a car crash and paralyses a motorcyclist gets a couple year in prison, where as a Polish illegal immigrant under extremely similar circumstances gets a visa.Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee
Seems fair to me :mad:
That's actually not far off the truth police in this country have had a hell of a time prosecuting Foreign drivers for motoring offences, but they are about to bring in a new system which will make it far simpler to fine the hell out of any foreign driver caught speeding (for example) on British roads.Quote:
Why not, we do in the UK. For example a British driver who causes a car crash and paralyses a motorcyclist gets a couple year in prison, where as a Polish illegal immigrant under extremely similar circumstances gets a visa.
Seems fair to me
Cant you, i thought that's exactly what Gitmo & the army trials were for!Quote:
You cannot have two sets of rules to try two sets of criminals, US and non-US.
The whole Gitmo thing puts the US on the same level as Al Qaeda or Taleban, where you start playing the game without following rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
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