Do I have any legal grounds?

Ok,
So we bought a third party control from the following
https://www.easybyte.com/order/rtfent.html
We paid the 1999 and received everything except the Source Code,
after several emails I was told per the Source Code License Agreement only Fortune 500 companies get the Source.
I never received the License agreement, there is no link to it on the site, they are now blowing me off.
Is this considered deceptive?, what can I do, because we are in the US and they are in the UK.

As per the website:
License Notes:
Enterprise License allows for RTF-2-HTML to be installed and used by as many developers within your organisation as you require
You get royalty free distribution rights with the Enterprise License for Server and Client installs of the Control
The Enterprise License also comes with the Source Code to the RTF-2-HTML control - subject to the Source Code License Agreement

It is legally accurate as long as the Source Code License Agreement (which I don't see a link to on the site) actually states that you only get the source code if you are a Fortune 500 company. If it states that, then they can reasonably claim that you were aware of the restriction. It seems more bizarre than actionable, to me. Of course, I don't have legal grounds, either, I just have coffee grounds.

Reasonably claim? If they don't post it or provide it before purchase then it is useless. How would I ever have seen it?

I was kind of hoping that there was a link to it somewhere else. If they don't post that agreement, I don't see how they can expect you to accept it. That certainly seems deceptive, especially since the restrictions appear to be nearly arbitrary. However, I wouldn't expect that you could sue for the source code, either. Returning the item seems like the most likely solution.

Well,
It actually works as expected, but I'm frustrated because I expected source.



Here it is again-right side of the page.
http://www.easybyte.com/

Full Source Code of RTF-2-HTML is available for purchase

Not Full Source Code of RTF-2-HTML is available for purchase only if your a Fortune 500 company

Again at this link
http://www.easybyte.com/products/rtf2html.html

If you purchase a license for RTF-2-HTML you get royalty free rights to distribute it with your programs. Unlike many companies which sell components, you can buy the source code for RTF-2-HTML.


As with previous versions, the FULL Source Code for RTF-2-HTML v8 is available for purchase, this allows you infinite customisation possibilities for generating the HTML, or modifying the conversion process. The Source Code is fully commented and documented.


ALL of the Source Code for RTF-2-HTML is available for purchase which will give you absolute control to modify the conversion process, or add your own special feature, unique to your uses.

Yeah, that last post certainly doesn't leave them any wiggle room. On the other hand, it mentions a fanatical support staff, so they might come to your company and kill everybody if you complain too much. You can never be sure with fanatics.

Moved to Gen Dev.

It's very clear what their website says. Make sure you take screenshots in case they change it soon.

Does your company have a legal department? It's best to inform them of this. I don't know how cross-pond legislation works, but I'm sure there is something you can do about this.

Now that the thread has been moved to a serious forum, some of my comments were not so serious.

The problem you have, as I see it, is that a legal solution would likely cost you vastly more than you could possibly gain from persuing that recourse. I agree with mendhak about getting screen shots, because as soon as you object to the misleading talk, you can be certain that the sites will change. However, it appears that you ultimately need to resolve this through negotiation.

I have taken screenshots.
I work for a Community College in CA.
Considering how many Colleges are in CA I thought they might have responded more favorable considering I could do more for them by recommended their product to other colleges.
In fact as a group we make more than any Fortune 500 company out there.
http://www.cccco.edu/CommunityColleg...3/Default.aspx

I will check to see if we have a legal dept.

Yeah, I just looked up the whois contact information and they claim they are in the UK. Else I would have just said contact the BBB.
I think this is one of the few instances where using a credit card could really have helped you out, as if this was me I would have just used a credit card and if they wont give me the source code I would just do a charge back. Let the credit company deal with them, not me.

You could contact eff and see what they say, they are a group of lawyers and activists. Now, the advice they give you may not be presentable in court, but they should be able to give you a step in the right direction.

What you could do, and this isn't the best advice, but fight fire with fire.
Reread the agreement that you had to agree to before purchasing the product/using the product. If it states:
1. That you cannot redistribute the software
2. That you are entitled to the source
If it says in stone #2, then they broke the legal agreement and the contract is null and void (at least in accordance with US law, if one party breaks the terms of the contract it is no longer valid).....
Why does this boil down to? Redistribute it to your hearts content, since you are longer bound by the contractual agreement set forth by them :). Resell it to other schools/students for a drastic discount.
If you do get hounded by lawyers, say you are doing it for educational purposes. (In the US, when something is done for educational purposes it has a whole seperate set of rules regarding copyright material. Example: Think of teachers who shows movies in class, did they buy a copy for every student who watched it, or only the one copy? And also did they get permission from the people who made the movie to present it to the class?)

Thanks,
I'll look into the link you sent.

In the first email I got it says this:
You are licensed to:

1) Have an unlimited number of developers work with the component

2) Install it on an unlimited number of servers (when done so in conjunction with
the applications that you wrote that use it).

3) Install it on an unlimited number of client side PCs (when done so in conjunction
with the applications that you wrote that use it).

I like the idea of number one, perhaps I should share my license key with unlimited number of developers? That sounds like everyone on vbforums to me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gtilles

Thanks,
I'll look into the link you sent.

In the first email I got it says this:
You are licensed to:

1) Have an unlimited number of developers work with the component

2) Install it on an unlimited number of servers (when done so in conjunction with
the applications that you wrote that use it).

3) Install it on an unlimited number of client side PCs (when done so in conjunction
with the applications that you wrote that use it).

I like the idea of number one, perhaps I should share my license key with unlimited number of developers? That sounds like everyone on vbforums to me!

---

Be careful with that ;)
My suggestion is kindly ask who would want to help you with a "project" that involves working with said "component". And prehaps the "project" is just to write 1 line of code using the "component" :afrog:

This company sounds shady. Only distribute source code to Fortune 500 companies? I've never heard of a requirement like that before and it sounds like a way to advertise something they don't do or don't want to do. I wonder if any Fortune 500 companies purchased anything from them.

Also, $1,999 is a ton of cache for something that just converts RTF->HTML and vice versa. A simple Google search yielded many free options as well as the possibility to roll your own if you really needed to (not sure if rolling your own would end up more expensive though). Is this product really that much better?

Here's an idea: It's written in .Net; Just decompile it :D

Believe me, I went throught and tested many free versions, this is the only one that did a decent job of conversion. Sometimes a little money is worth the time of doing it yourself.

"Third Party Controls" don't come with source code. Otherwise it would be "Third Party Controls (with source code free!)". As well as being obvious to me, technical authors would never stand for it as it's too long to type. MS marketing would have to call it "Bloody Charity Work .NET" and everything would be bad, really bad.

BTW You can't disassemble it. They send the TPC Police.