This is the place for all your off-topic posts

Let me preface this by saying that I have been a member of this forum for less than a year, so please excuse my possible ignorance.

I noticed today two threads have been shut down because of penagate's (Super Moderator) preferences; one directly and one indirectly.

http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=490044

This thread had something to do with learning Japanese (at least originally). Somewhere towards the top penagate expressed his opinion that everyone should "Please post only in English." This appears to me to be a request, and not a command. This thought is shared by MartinLiss who stated "Since several people decided to ignore penagate's request I've closed this thread" as he locked the thread.

I take issue with this for a few reasons. First, penagate could close the thread if he (?) so desired. Second, as previously stated, it was a request and not a command (is posting in English a rule?). And third, last time I checked, vbforums is on the internet. The internet happens to be international, and despite everything on the site being in English, I don't believe vbforums has an official language. I know from reading other posts that some members speak languages other than English. I also know from some apparently translated posts that some members don't speak English (or don't speak it very well).

So, why would one request that posts be only in English? Please allow me to offer my most likely explanation. If someone posts something in Japanese, how are we to know that they didn't post something "dirty"? If this is, in fact, true, then we are censoring that which we do not understand (unless penagate speaks Japanese, which I'm not saying is impossible). I hardly feel that this is a good policy. I apologize if this is an incorrect assumption. I just felt it to be the most likely explanation, and I wanted to further the discussion quickly.


http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=492546

This thread was shut down because "I thought I said no more political propaganda in this forum" (penagate). Funny, I thought this was a public forum. And as the subject of this post, and the description of the forum, states, this is the place for all your off-topic posts. If not here, then where?



I simply ask these two questions:
1. Why must everyone post in English?
2. Why can't anyone post about political things, even if they are considered propaganda?


Finally, I would like to officially state that I hate Mark Gambo's posts. I don't understand why he is posting some much political stuff as of late, and it annoys me. But, I wouldn't stop him from doing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 18experience

1. Why must everyone post in English?

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Your assumption is partly correct - everything that is posted on this site is subject to moderation, and all moderators/admins are English speakers. We can use internet translation sites, but that is not only unreliable, but also a lot of extra effort for what is a voluntary role.

Another issue is that non-English posts stop the majority of our members from being involved in that thread.

We are aware that there are many non-English speakers here, but I'm afraid this forum is English based - we are happy for them to be here, but if they want to post in other languages, they should find an appropriate site.

Quote:

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2. Why can't anyone post about political things, even if they are considered propaganda?

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That is an area (like religion) that can cause problems - there have been several heated arguments before, and we don't want to repeat that.

As such, this rule from our AUP comes in to effect:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by our AUP

You will, if asked by a representative of the Forums, cease posting any content, and/or links to content, deemed offensive, objectionable, or in poor taste by the staff of the Forums.

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Plus, once you've been here for more than a year, you'll have learned the different interpretative whims of the different moderators, and you'll know what you can get away with.

1) English is universal. Get used to it.

2) World Events forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 18experience

So, why would one request that posts be only in English? Please allow me to offer my most likely explanation. If someone posts something in Japanese, how are we to know that they didn't post something "dirty"? If this is, in fact, true, then we are censoring that which we do not understand (unless penagate speaks Japanese, which I'm not saying is impossible). I hardly feel that this is a good policy.

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As Si explained, that is our policy. This is an English-speaking forum. Moderators are volunteers, not paid members of staff; our task is to ensure that content is appropriate. I'm sure you can appreciate that it isn't really fair to burden us with moderating content that isn't in English.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 18experience

This thread was shut down because "I thought I said no more political propaganda in this forum" (penagate). Funny, I thought this was a public forum. And as the subject of this post, and the description of the forum, states, this is the place for all your off-topic posts. If not here, then where?

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Perhaps a political discussion site? This is a programming site, after all. As well as the potential for causing heated arguments, this simply isn't an appropriate place for posting propaganda of any kind. (No, not in the World Events forum, either.)
I'll also remind you that, although this site is open to anyone from anywhere in the world, it is privately owned. As such, whilst we welcome intelligent discussion and debate, you simply don't have the right to free speech here. "Off-topic", but within certain guidelines.


By the way, if you ever have an issue with the actions of any moderator here, then the easiest way to resolve that is to contact them directly.


Cheers

– P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penagate

By the way, if you ever have an issue with the actions of any moderator here, then the easiest way to resolve that is to contact them directly.

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And, after having done so, if you still feel your need is not being satisfactorily addressed, you can take the matter up with one of the administrators:

Brad Jones
JPnyc
Martin Liss

We all "work for" and "report" to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penagate

As Si explained, that is our policy. This is an English-speaking forum. Moderators are volunteers, not paid members of staff; our task is to ensure that content is appropriate. I'm sure you can appreciate that it isn't really fair to burden us with moderating content that isn't in English.

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I am fine with it being an English-speaking forum. As you pointed out, it is privately owned. However, I just haven't seen anywhere that explicitly states that is an English speaking forum. Perhaps it is in a FAQ somewhere, but I haven't seen it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penagate

Perhaps a political discussion site? This is a programming site, after all.

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http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=491979
Then why is the Mitch Hedburg post allowed? It isn't programming related. I think this is harmless. I think we would all agree that Mitch Hedburg is much (much) less likely to cause a heated debate, but that post has nothing to do with programming.

I suppose I just feel that this is a fairly fluffy part of the forum that doesn't serve any real purpose other than to allow members to waste some time and post about irrelevant things (but I like it). As such, I was surprised to see it moderated (I feel) subjectively.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to come across as a personal attack. Also, I am rarely PMd and, as such, rarely use them. I appreciate what the moderators do, and they are, in my experience, knowledgeable programmers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 18experience

I am fine with it being an English-speaking forum. As you pointed out, it is privately owned. However, I just haven't seen anywhere that explicitly states that is an English speaking forum. Perhaps it is in a FAQ somewhere, but I haven't seen it.

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I think there was a post somewhere once. Personally, I don't feel it's enough of an issue to warrant mention in the FAQ or AUP. We simply bring it up when necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 18experience

Then why is the Mitch Hedburg post allowed? It isn't programming related. I think this is harmless. I think we would all agree that Mitch Hedburg is much (much) less likely to cause a heated debate, but that post has nothing to do with programming.

I suppose I just feel that this is a fairly fluffy part of the forum that doesn't serve any real purpose other than to allow members to waste some time and post about irrelevant things (but I like it). As such, I was surprised to see it moderated (I feel) subjectively.

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A Mitch Hedburg thread here and there is fine. A dozen threads in a row about how Mitch Hedburg is a rotten comedian would be inappropriate.
I mention that this is a programming site because that's our core focus. Like you say, Chit Chat is largely irrelevant, and so it doesn't make much sense to have to spend a huge amount of time moderating it. This section has had periods of high maintenance in the past, and has come close to being shut down because of it. I'd hate to see that happen over a few topics that are irrelevant in the long run.

*cough*cats*cough*

How do you declare pointers to member functions in C++?










No I'm joking of course. It was ironical. Oh my yes.

Always look on the briiight side of life *melodic whistling*

In the words of the almost immortalized yet infamous ex-moderator plenderj, using VBForums is a privilege, not a right.

When you are talking to someone in a train, by whatever chance, you will generally avoid talking to them about their religious or political beliefs. You will freely castigate their baseball team or favorite TV show (because they are complete morons and have no taste); The point being that it is those etiquettes which you follow here as well.

1. Because i said so
2. because bob said so

timeshifter - woss the problem? Cat got your toungue?
wossy - why, with the Finger class of course!
dclamp - 1) meh.... 2) All hail the mighty bob! All tremble at the might of the mighty bob.

language - majority of us here are English speaking.... in some form or another. If I were to visit a German development site where everyone was sprechen Deutch, I wouldn't be going about raising caine because no one was speaking my language. That would be arrogant (and very American of me). No, I'd be expected to learn the language in a manner that would make communication possible. BTW - there are many ESL (English as a Second Language) people here that speak far better English than many native speakers (self included).

politics - problem with this topic, many people don't know how to control themselves.... it's very polarizing and getting worse... if it gets to be too bad, I wouldn't be surprised to see chit-chat go the way of the dodo.... besides, there's a plethora of other political based sites where people can spout their own views.

As a matter of habit I don't click on any Links of MG's in chit chat. Self-control.

-tg

TG - please change your location in your profile.

English only eh? (joke)

Kthxbai.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by techgnome

. . .As a matter of habit I don't click on any Links of MG's in chit chat. Self-control.

-tg

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I am highly insulted ;) , I will retaliate by boycotting your CC posts also and I will encourage by neighboring countries, errrr, my friends to do the same. ;)

how about you just stop posting all together? lol :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dclamp

how about you just stop posting all together? lol :)

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Wow, isn't that the Pot calling the Kettle Black!!!! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark Gambo

Wow, isn't that the Pot calling the Kettle Black!!!! ;)

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Do you expect anything else from Mr. Clamp?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsheller

Do you expect anything else from Mr. Clamp?

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No, I guess you are right. ;)

@Clamp :lol: :lol: :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 18experience

Let me preface this by saying that I have been a member of this forum for less than a year, so please excuse my possible ignorance.

I noticed today two threads have been shut down because of penagate's (Super Moderator) preferences; one directly and one indirectly.

http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=490044

This thread had something to do with learning Japanese (at least originally). Somewhere towards the top penagate expressed his opinion that everyone should "Please post only in English." This appears to me to be a request, and not a command. This thought is shared by MartinLiss who stated "Since several people decided to ignore penagate's request I've closed this thread" as he locked the thread.

I take issue with this for a few reasons. First, penagate could close the thread if he (?) so desired. Second, as previously stated, it was a request and not a command (is posting in English a rule?). And third, last time I checked, vbforums is on the internet. The internet happens to be international, and despite everything on the site being in English, I don't believe vbforums has an official language. I know from reading other posts that some members speak languages other than English. I also know from some apparently translated posts that some members don't speak English (or don't speak it very well).

So, why would one request that posts be only in English? Please allow me to offer my most likely explanation. If someone posts something in Japanese, how are we to know that they didn't post something "dirty"? If this is, in fact, true, then we are censoring that which we do not understand (unless penagate speaks Japanese, which I'm not saying is impossible). I hardly feel that this is a good policy. I apologize if this is an incorrect assumption. I just felt it to be the most likely explanation, and I wanted to further the discussion quickly.


http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=492546

This thread was shut down because "I thought I said no more political propaganda in this forum" (penagate). Funny, I thought this was a public forum. And as the subject of this post, and the description of the forum, states, this is the place for all your off-topic posts. If not here, then where?



I simply ask these two questions:
1. Why must everyone post in English?
2. Why can't anyone post about political things, even if they are considered propaganda?


Finally, I would like to officially state that I hate Mark Gambo's posts. I don't understand why he is posting some much political stuff as of late, and it annoys me. But, I wouldn't stop him from doing it.

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You are right when you say that Penagate's request could have been interpreted as a request and not a command. However I assume that in for example a work situation if your boss requested that you do something that you would do it rather than thinking "I don't really have to do that". Your boss and we try to be polite when we want something done but we still expect it to be done.

Damnit. I really liked that thread.

Ah well. I guess it's back to talking to the walls. Again.

so say sorry boss and don't challenge anything they say again.

god i hope you live better than this in real life.

My boss askes me to do somthing i ask Why !

dav

I have an itching feeling that someone is going to get a ban. Either that or I have parasites growing on my skin.

is this how it works in here Kregg.

You make a comment about an admin and they ban you ?

dav

Only if you insult their spleen.

Depends on the depth and direct harshness of the comment. As far as I've seen, the terms for being banned due to fighting with an admin is no more penalized then that of fighting with another member.

In this particular case, I don't see what the big stink is about. The political threads have got out of hand (imo) and speaking English here isn't anything new. If we are to help people that post, we need to speak the same language. Where else can you make ths statement but the AUP?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Davadvice

is this how it works in here Kregg.

You make a comment about an admin and they ban you ?

dav

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In my case, I had just registered, failed the VBF test and got banned.

Good Luck with the test. I hear they have a higher percentage than last minute! (I think 10% more)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Davadvice

so say sorry boss and don't challenge anything they say again.

god i hope you live better than this in real life.

My boss askes me to do somthing i ask Why !

dav

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The "why" was given.

And now for something completely different...

http://www.spartaaaaa.de/img/Wheel_of_fortune_300.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

The "why" was given.

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Sorry, my decryption keys have failed me once again, and I cannot interpret your post. Plz giv c0dz kthxbai! (preferably in LOLcode, or in one of your unencrypted poems).

*Ramble* *Ramble* *Ramble*

more like this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Davadvice

is this how it works in here Kregg.

You make a comment about an admin and they ban you ?

dav

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No. Most of us have pretty thick skins and we treat "comments" about us just like "comments" about any other member. People have however been banned for behaving badly towards members and mods under the "You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harrass, threaten, nor attack anyone" portion of the AUP, but that is a rare thing.

lol... a vbf test :D

actually, it isn't a very bad idea.
lately I see a lot of new members posting questions in codebank.
why not let them do a simple test where you give them a thread text and let them choose the correct section?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBigB

lol... a vbf test :D

actually, it isn't a very bad idea.
lately I see a lot of new members posting questions in codebank.
why not let them do a simple test where you give them a thread text and let them choose the correct section?

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Or we could make them spend 20 minutes in the FAQ and "read this before you post"-section before they can activate their newly registered accounts.;)

My test asked me 10 different questions about the FAQ/AUP. It had to be in essay form, and you needed online connection for the VBFGA* to obtain your results.


*VBFGA = VB Forums Genuine Advantage.

i got 119% on that test :)

Did someone help you with that? You should really rate their post.

I'm going to close this thread now since it's going—surprise!—off topic.

If you wish to continue the serious part of the discussion, please make a topic in the Forum Feedback section.