3d Isometric!

Hi ppl!

Short (but probably hard) question:

Is it possible to set the D3D renderer to isometric rendering? And if yes, how? (I don't really think it is, cause I never saw something like this)

Thx

course you can, it's just like doing an isometric game in 2d, only harder cos it's in D3D ;)

That's not what I mean! I want it to render isometric not perspective! That means, angles don't change to the back! just like using fixed bitmaps! Only I have the ability to zoom!

Sure.. it's possible. But you'll still have to use Vertices. You make 4 vertices, that make a cube, and then change the view matrix to an isometrix view, then apply the appropriate texture to the vertices/plane... and put light in and you're done..

by the way kenny, D3D is not harder.. it just involves more math. infact it's easier to do isometric view games in d3d than it is to do them in ddraw...

d3d is harder than ddraw to learn - don't tell me it isnt't!

Hm I have the feeling my English is too bad!! I know, that I can change the View to this 45 Degree view! BUT THIS IS NOT ISOMETRIC!!!

Look Gost:
In a normal Rendering the angles change, by distance, not in ISO!


Everybody who has 3D Studio Max can see this, by just setting up a Camera and change it to isometric view (somewhere in the properties)

Isometric view is looking at a rectangle, at 45 degrees X axis and 45 degrees Y axis. Z axis doesn't determine whether or not you're in iso view or not.

[] converted to isometric view = <> <- still not accurate

Let me put it this way, turn a piece of paper untill you're looking at it from anyone of it's corner, and then tilt the corner that's pointing toward you, down 45 Degrees. and you got isometrics view.


and Kenny, no, D3D is not harder, you just need an higher understanding of math, and programming concept, and an higher intellect, which you seem to be missing right now.

No offense...

and Misan, I've worked with Top-Down and Isometrics views and engines for quite some time, 3 years to be exact. So I know what i'm talking about.

By the way, In D3D, there's three matrices that you define, The world matrix, the Projection Matrix and the View/Perspective Matrix.

World matrix is how a 3D object is rendered on a 2D plane (or you moniter).
Projection matrix is how you're looking at an object, more like you Point of View or Focus of View.
View matrix is what really should be changed, it's more like what you call a camera. This is what you see thru.

Just because I said that change the co-ordinates to 45, 45 doesn't mean that the view matrix would give u an iso view, it also depends on where your vertices in relation to the world matrix. Then you change your view matrix to 45,45 degrees (notice: I"m not giving co-ordinates). It's hard to explain, but once you get it, you'll understand what I mean.


I wish you guys had taken geometry in US so I could use US terms to kind of tell you what I mean.. Any one else wanna try and tell them what I mean? lol

To Kenny: D3D is only a little more work, and more possibilities, but if it is set up it works nearly like DDraw! You don't even have to care for those freaking rects, I always mess aroun in DDraw!

To gost: I know most of the stuff you told me. You probably can use US terms, because I am just in the USA and take a Trig/Pre-Caculus class (it is pretty easy compared to our Ggerman stuff!) If I don't get them, I can talk to my Math teacher!
I know what ISO mean. Are you sure you can do it like you said? Let me explain my doubts:
When I have a square rectangle. I look at it from your view in D3D the 2D coordinates would be like
0,0 -1,1 0,3 1,1

and in real iso
0,0 -1,1 0,2 1,1

(in a normal coordinate system like you use it in School math)

And even if you can handle this with the viewpoint (it really should work, with the 45degree, than you'd still have the problem, that a 'tile' further away would be smaller. It wouldn't be in a real Iso view!) Just look at in in 3DsMax

Thx

well what you're saying is what I meant.. 45 degree won't really be 45,45 on the co-ordinate. if u take your monitor and draw a graph on it.. the four quadrants would be the 4 corners of you monitor.

if we draw a square (let's make it easy) where each vertex lies in a quadrant, for example, (5,5), (-5,5), (-5,-5), (5,-5).

say the graph itself goes up to 10, and the origin is ofcourse at 0.


now those co-ordinates would give you a square. Because all 4 sides are equal. (it also depends on what kind of vertices you use in d3d, I'm assuming LineStrip).

now how would we look at this square at an isometric view?


well by moving the camera to either one of those co-ordinates up there. by moving the camera to (5,5,0) and tilting it up (0,5,0) would give u an isometric view.. I hope you get it.

By the way I have worked with 3dsmax and the isometric view.. to make tiles for RPG engines... I know what you're talking about, but 3dsmax and d3d are not the same thing. They take their co-ordinates differently..

Oh one more thing.. Iso tiles, when tiled together, do not look like that a tile further away is smalle, because they're basically covering your screen (you can't see the sky). So whatever's on your screen, will look like it's there. But 3D isometrics view has nothing to do with how the distant objects look smaller. The view is still isometric. Infact you could lower the 45 Y axis and then may be add an sky box and also Fog and things like that, that would also make it look really coool. But that would still be isometrics view..


To tell you the truth, isometric view is really how the tiles look and how the movement is.

When in ddraw, u draw your tiles in a diamond shape, when they apear on the screen, in iso view, it kind of looks as if you're looking at it from the side, not the corner and the tile is still diamond.

A lot of people get confused by this and make diamond tile and put them together, but the movement is not isometrics, because when you move, it moves the map diagonally because of the view, and because the x and y axis are messed up, so x would be going diagonally and Y would be going diagonally. i've seen people make diamond tiles, and making a top-down game, and calling it isometric. But the movement was straight left/right/up/down. It looked really bad.

What you're saying is also right, depending on what kinda co-ordinate system you use. that's why tiles are drawn on a world matrix because then the world matrix decides how you look at the thing..

wildghost, i think the insult was a bit pathetic and ill founded: ", and an higher intellect, which you seem to be missing right now."

u see, i know d3d (dx8) and am writing something right now, so plz stop being elitist and know-all b/c you aren't king of 3d i'm sure.

and to say d3d is no harder to begin learning than ddraw is utter bullshit - for a start you need to think in 3 dimensions.

WhildGhost, i hope you aren't refering to my engine, lol. Because i thought we got it cleared up that the tilesets are 3disometric but the map is drawn in a rectangular order like in Civilisation/Tiberian sun. That makes absolutely no difference except that you need to have a different way to convert the 3d coordinates to screen coordinates.

To misantrops original qwestion, is there a specific purpose you want to do this in D3D? If you just render them and save them as bitmap, then you could do it with a tile generator. Anyway if theres no way to do real isometric, you can get as close to it by removing the perspective, moving the camera as far as possible

Kenny: Thinking in 3 dimensional is not hard.. You do it every day. Infact know it or not, but you also use Vectors everyday, and think in vectors everyday, and if you don't know we live in a 4 dimensional world (4th dimension is time, if you didn't know). So if we can think in 4 dimensions then we're already thinking in 3 dimensions. Let me give you an example. I'll get to newyork in approximately 5 hours.. That right there is 4 dimensional thinking. using 3D vectors. So I don't know what your trying to say.. but D3D being hard is not utter bullshit, you just need to realize that you need an higher understanding of math.


kedaman: tiles are not drawn in isometrics view. You need to understand that difference.. Nice catch though lol

To WildGhost:

Two things: First, I made quite some iso engines, and the one you call wrong is exactly what is used in the RTS games. Maybe it is not the way it should logically be, but that doesn't makes it wring.
AND: I am not searching a way to make a 3D iso game. I allready got this stuff!!!!! I am searching for some way to make a real iso Projection!! And I am very sorry, but I am quite sure, that the ppl from 3D Studio Max know little more about 3D stuff than you do!

So I still search a way for real Iso Projection.
If anyone knows, drop me some lines! I don't intend to make a 3D tile game!!!

wildghost: i said d3d was *harder* than ddraw, not actually *hard* - it's not very difficult, just harder than ddraw.

BTW, been doing some GL recently and GL is soooo much better than d3d - try it if u haven't 'cos its much more intuitive, and the GL type lib comes with all win32 declarations too - 2 for 1

I agree with you totally Kenny, i learned ddraw in one day and i'm still learning d3d.
whildghost, you heard Misan, the tiles are drawn isometric!

I am Very sorry to tell, but I found no single answer in all those Posts!!!!
I STILL NEED A POSSIBILITY TO RENDER REAL ISO LIKE 3D STUDIO MAX DOES IT!!!!!!!! (but I can't afford 3D studio Max, so don't tell me to get it!)

Is there a possibility in Open GL? Or any ISO Renderer Out there?

how does 3ds do it? whats wrong with the way games like red alert 2 do it?