Is immigration out of control?

I've noticed it over the years, but I just got through watching an episode of Bill O'Reilly on immigration. It was talking about how 80% of immigrants(mexicans) are illegal. 32 million illegal mexicans now live in the USA, and have more benifits than most citizens. I don't understand that...They are allowed more rights and privaleges than any other immigrants like germans, italians, etc.. One thing they said on that show, was that a mexican(in specific) could come over sea's illegally, and get more benifits such as health, than a war veteran returning from war.

Now, I believe diversity is good, but chaos is weakness. Are our politician not paying immigration enough attention?

I don't know who Bill O'Reilly is, but does he by any chance have an agenda.
I bet most of those illegal immigrants are employed, in jobs no one else will do either because of the pay or conditions. People complain about immigrants but stop them and people will soon be complaining about increasing prices and lack of services for all the dirty jobs.

You are right on Dead Eyes. My husband owns his own landscaping business. And, he employs many Mexicans. My husband checks for credentials like Driver's License and Social Security cards, but we're relatively certain that most of those are falsely obtained. Not all, but most of Mexicans are HARD workers. They have an incredible work ethic. They do work that many Americans would rather collect welfare than do. And, the majority of them are the most polite people I've ever met. We would not be able to remain in business without them.

As far as health benefits, I don't know any Mexicans who have them. Unless through employers. They use the hospital system and the public health system when they have to.

P.S. System Error - Mexican's don't come from over seas. Generally, they cross the border in Texas.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

32 million illegal mexicans now live in the USA, and have more benifits than most citizens. I don't understand that...They are allowed more rights and privaleges than any other immigrants like germans, italians, etc.. One thing they said on that show, was that a mexican(in specific) could come over sea's illegally, and get more benifits such as health, than a war veteran returning from war.

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I dont agree with you, Mexican imigrants do not get more benefits than americans.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

One thing they said on that show, was that a mexican(in specific) could come over sea's illegally, and get more benifits such as health, than a war veteran returning from war.

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That's sorta true but only because Our VA hospitals suck. Vets would be better off using public healthcare but they are disqualified because they already have health coverage through the VA. My buddy who just got back from Iraq less one arm is dealing with that now. Lost his house and is hundreds of thousands in debt now. Also, the army doctor hosed up the amputation and capped off the nerves incorrectly so he's got level 8 pain 24/7 for the rest of his life.

If the 16 to 21 year old crowd in the would actually get off of mommy and daddys couch, put down the video games and get a job, we wouldn't need illegal immagrants to mow lawns and flip burgers.

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Originally Posted by Malim

You are right on Dead Eyes. My husband owns his own landscaping business. And, he employs many Mexicans. My husband checks for credentials like Driver's License and Social Security cards, but we're relatively certain that most of those are falsely obtained. Not all, but most of Mexicans are HARD workers. They have an incredible work ethic. They do work that many Americans would rather collect welfare than do. And, the majority of them are the most polite people I've ever met. We would not be able to remain in business without them.

As far as health benefits, I don't know any Mexicans who have them. Unless through employers. They use the hospital system and the public health system when they have to.

P.S. System Error - Mexican's don't come from over seas. Generally, they cross the border in Texas.

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Being a source of cheap labor doesn't justify circumventing the system.

In response to

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Originally Posted by crptcblade

Being a source of cheap labor doesn't justify circumventing the system.

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I agree with DeadEyes because my husband has real world experience with this exact issue.

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Originally Posted by DeadEyes

I bet most of those illegal immigrants are employed, in jobs no one else will do either because of the pay or conditions. People complain about immigrants but stop them and people will soon be complaining about increasing prices and lack of services for all the dirty jobs.

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Like I said in my original post, my husband obtains Driver's License and Social Security cards. There's not much else he can do. He can't force people who would rather be on welfare than work a manual labor job to work for him.

I'm not disagreeing with your point of view. But the bottom line is, they are still in the wrong.

I understand what you are saying as well.

But, what it boils down to is this: They want to feed their families. They know there are jobs here that people are not willing to do. So, they ignore the fact that it is illegal. Most of them keep just enough money to live on, and they send the rest of the money back to their families.

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Posted by Malim

They know there are jobs here that people are not willing to do.

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People are not willing to do the jobs becasue the payscale has been lowered. A large percentage of the time it's not the actual job that people won't do it's what the job pays. Granted most people don't want to sweat and do landscaping or do house keeping but the jobs that americans would do they won't do because the lower job market is flooded with illegals who will accept anything they are offered.

Even if you would be willing to accept the lower pay you have to contend with the illegals bringing there own in to fill any open slots. So you get the double wammy.

Bill O'Rielly is full of it usually - the shock-jock of mis-information!

I was involved in implementing a state-wide program for affordable health care (subsidized) for low-wage earners. In CT the program was called HUSKY...

At any rate, several years into the program it comes to light that the biggest users of the program are all employeed by a handful of large-corporate employers. WalMart (large discount store chain), Home Depot (large discount home supply store) and Laidlaw (school bus drivers!).

Apparently these large corporations discovered they could blow off covering the health care of their workers - the workers are paid low wages anyway - they qualify for HUSKY and all of a sudden the tax-payers of the state are subsidizing these workers (ultimately these big corporations).

And yes, it just came to light that WalMart was knowingly employing illegal aliens.

What a rip off at all levels this is!

It's all a scam. America is about business, so what leads me to believe that anyone would do anything about stopping people from comming into america illegal? Like they actualy would crack down at the borders create an employment deficit then be forced to up wages(cause no one is gonna work for $7 and hour).

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Originally Posted by Dilenger4

It's all a scam. America is about business, so what leads me to believe that anyone would do anything about stopping people from comming into america illegal? Like they actualy would crack down at the borders create an employment deficit then be forced to up wages(cause no one is gonna work for $7 and hour).

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Aren't business and America great! Business pays my bills, lets me live in a nice home, drive a nice car, pays for my family's meals and entertainment! In America I can work hard to become anything I want to be! I can make any salary I want as long as I am willing to work hard to do it. I think business and America Rock!

Personally, I'd rather work for $7 an hour than collect welfare. My husband pays his lead foreman $20 an hour and the other workers $15. I don't think that's a bad pay scale to ride around on a lawnmower, blow some leaves, trim some hedges and edge a few curbs. He's employed over 20 people and only two who have applied for jobs were Americans. One lasted three months and quit, and the other was fired because he refused to work when it was hot, cold or raining.

If people don't want to make $7 an hour, then they should make arrangements to find higher paying jobs, You know, rocket science things like getting through high school and college, or going to a trade school, etc. And, if they can't do that then they should find a company that promotes from within. At my company, the guy that started in the mailroom twenty years ago is now the Director of Accounts Receivable and manages $2 billion dollars in receivables.

If people possess skills that make them only worth $7 an hour that's their problem, not the welfare system's problem. And that is precisely why illegal immigrants come to America because they are willing to work for $7 an hour.

First off your husband is the exception. Most landscapers get paid low wages. Second i highly doubt that you have trouble finding an american citizen to work for what your husband pays.

No, my husband is not the exception. We live in an area where landscaping is big business and if you are good, and that depends on your crew, then you can make A LOT of money. So, it pays to pay your workers. And, did you miss the part where I said out of twenty workers only two were Americans? What I forgot to say was that out of about 70 or so interviews for those 20 or so workers, there were only two Americans who applied.

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Originally Posted by Dilenger4

It's all a scam. America is about business,

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I think people are all about beating the system. And business is just a group of people beating the system.

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Originally Posted by Dilenger4

First off your husband is the exception. Most landscapers get paid low wages. Second i highly doubt that you have trouble finding an american citizen to work for what your husband pays.

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Not to indict landscapers - but from what I've seen, the small landscaping guy isn't paying any taxes - just pocketing the cash - another example of beating the system.

If only those people could realize that they are beating it for themselves and everyone else!

In my opinion, it's all about ambition - I started working when I was 15 - started developing software when I was 18 - traveled the country for the company I worked for installing that product like crazy. That's my personal work ethic.

Now 25 years later I don't see that kind of work ethic anymore. I've hired college kids, consultants, high school students - very few have the drive that I wish they had.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

Not to indict landscapers - but from what I've seen, the small landscaping guy isn't paying any taxes - just pocketing the cash - another example of beating the system.

If only those people could realize that they are beating it for themselves and everyone else!

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Do you have any first hand knowledge of landscapers who cheat on their taxes? I know a lot and not one of them cheats. The penalties are too deep.

We started as a small landscaping firm and we've always paid every dime owed in taxes that we were expected to pay. Don't get me wrong, we'll be agressive - but, we stay within the law. We have a business checking account that all the money goes through, and if we don't report enough income to support our lifestyle, then we will be audited, and go to jail. Not worth it. I'm sure, many small business people cheat on their taxes, but the ones who have ethics, and morals, and don't want to go to jail don't.

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Originally Posted by Malim

We started as a small landscaping firm and we've always paid every dime owed in taxes that we were expected to pay. Don't get me wrong, we'll be agressive - but, we stay within the law. We have a business checking account that all the money goes through, and if we don't report enough income to support our lifestyle, then we will be audited, and go to jail. Not worth it. I'm sure, many small business people cheat on their taxes, but the ones who have ethics, and morals, and don't want to go to jail don't.

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As I said, I did not mean to indict landscapers - and surely not you :)

And yes - I do know of people that cheat...

I know of people who cheat too, and I always advise them to be as aggressive as they can, within the limit of the law, but to pay their taxes.

Coincidentally, most are immigrants (not illegal) who start their own businesses. I know that can be construed as a generalization, it just happens to be the case with the people I know who cheat on their taxes.

I the way i see it is the ones with the drive just end up in a job where job per formance dosen't equal pay. I worked in a mailroom for three years. Out worked almost everyone there. Didn't i get payed anymore? no. All i got was an excuse every year why the company couldn't give us a raise.

Then you were working for the wrong company.

They are all the same. All low level jobs in my area employ pretty much the same people. The mailroom was no exception. It took me eight months to find a job that was a block away. When i was hired i thought to myself why did it take that long? I realized that every time someone quit the spanish people would just bring in one of their own. Also why would the company not give any raises? Cause they knew that if the spanish people didn't like it and quit there would be no shortage of illegal workers to take their place. This pretty much came out of the workers mouths not mine.

I can sympathize with you, but you WERE at the wrong company. They are not all the same. Plenty of companies promote from within. In fact, in big companies I would say it is the norm, as long as you are a good employee, smart, and possessing a good work ethic.

I am certainly not trying to be disrespecful, but why did it take you three years to figure out that you were going no where at that company?

I've never had a problem finding a good paying job, even in desperate economic times. And, I certainly wouldn't hang around for three years in a job where I didn't get a raise or a promotion. Did you ask for a promotion?

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Posted by Malim

I am certainly not trying to be disrespecfut, but why did it take you three years to figure out that you were going no where at that company?

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None taken. :) It didn't. I knew that there was nowhere to go within in the company early on unless i wanted to be a manager or work in human resources. Those were pretty much the only jobs posted on the companies job board. I stayed because of the jobs close proximity to my house.

Sometimes it is better to travel longer distance for better job with larger wage, than to have convenient commute for lower wage.
- Confucius.

Confucius also say - if manager job is available from mailroom job, take manager job.

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Posted by Malim

Sometimes it is better to travel longer distance for better job with larger wage, than to have convenient commute for lower wage.

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Depends where you live. Driving 30 miles in heavily populated areas is different than driving 30 miles somewhere else.

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Posted by Malim

Confucius also say - if manager job is available from mailroom job, take manager job.

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Sorry im not a babysitter.

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Originally Posted by Dilenger4

Depends where you live. Driving 30 miles in heavily populated areas is different than driving 30 miles somewhere else.

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Agreed - I live in Atlanta. Traffic is terrible. And it's a trade off between quality of life and drive time. I'm not lying, I literally read all 1400+ pages of War and Peace while stopped at red lights commuting to a job in Atlanta. However, many companies are willing to let you telecommute at least a couple of days a week. And, if you are an independent contractor - which I was for 4 years, you can work from home most of the time. (If you are good, and if you deliver.)

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Originally Posted by Dilenger4

Sorry im not a babysitter.

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Too bad, I pay mine $10 an hour. Oh, never mind, that's not even good enough for a welfare recipient - only good enough for an illegal immigrant! Nevermind that I throw in a ride too and from the gig - dinner - and, a movie! "Fringe benefits."

Seriously, not everyone is cut out to be a manager. It's a tough job. And, if you can recognize in yourself that you don't want to be one, than that is a strength.

That's why im trying to move from new jersey to knoxville TN. At least in knoxville i can live in the city without having to pay an arm and a leg for rent and car insurance plus they have good public transportation like trolleys and busses.

This is too funny...

I just moved to Knoxville. I work in the IT department for the best company in town. I have to have your resume.

(The public transportation isn't that great - and there are no Trolley's unless your talking in a tourist district downtown. But, there are no state taxes here!)

My xgirlfriend lives in pigeon forge and runs a hotel i think in gattlinburg which i love going to. I sent in my application to transfer to utk so im hoping that i get accepted. She won't be too far from me, i think 30 miles so that's pretty good. Funny she said that the public transportation is slow so i should keep my car. :lol:

I looked at the kat maps and the trans seems to cover a lot of the area though. But then again i don't know how big knoxville is so. :sick:

Pigeon Forge is great, and so is Gatlinburg. There aren't that many big corporations in Knoxville, and that's where you want to be (most likely) if you want to move up in the company. Are you a VB.net developer? If so, we are looking at resumes.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

Bill O'Rielly is full of it usually - the shock-jock of mis-information!

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Bill O'Rielly is your daddy, that's all I know.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

Bill O'Rielly is your daddy, that's all I know.

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You finally post again, and that's all you have to add??????

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Originally Posted by davebat

I dont agree with you, Mexican imigrants do not get more benefits than americans.

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How many american citizens can go over seas, rape a girl, and get away with it, without being sent back to your country?

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Posted by Malim
Are you a VB.net developer? If so, we are looking at resumes.

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Strictly Java. I used to program in Vb a long time ago. When versions 5 and 6 were out.

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Originally Posted by DeadEyes

I don't know who Bill O'Reilly is, but does he by any chance have an agenda.
I bet most of those illegal immigrants are employed, in jobs no one else will do either because of the pay or conditions..

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Your wrong. Employers are all about money, they would rather pay ten mexicans one dollar an hour, than one american ten dollars an hour. Americans working for lower level jobs now have to compete with mexicans that will work for half the money, not even enough to feed a family. So whats the point in even applying for a job were you have that kind of competition.

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Originally Posted by Malim

You finally post again, and that's all you have to add??????

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Most of the arguments presented, including yours, can't be considered valid arguments. You can't even support your crap.

As for mexico, I just read were the president of mexico has actually made a dvd that tells mexicans how to get over here illegally without being caught.

Malim does your husband run his business out of knoxville? For 15 an hour ill cut lawns all day then wax your car. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Malim

You finally post again, and that's all you have to add??????

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I've had work to do...