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Hey!
Im a learner and just started learning it a week ago.... So my question arises whether it is language worth... or just a waste for the present....
Im a beginner so shall i carry on with VB 6?
and is java programming in demand... coz i was learning java but resumed it... I find it hard. & tedious... moreoever the compile & runing takes time too....
Pls post ur opinions!
It's pretty obvious that, in a VB forum, most people would vote for VB. C++ is more powerful but not easy to learn and very hard to master. Java is much easier to learn actually then C++ even though there are many syntax similaraties. VB6 can be very powerful and you can do mainly anything with it for the Windows platform. The language is also pretty easy to learn and master.
Visual Basic was called BASIC for a reason ;)
It can be powerful depending on what you do with it. Like if you were to make a game on it, it would be best to use DirectX or OpenGL on VB rather than API's or pure VB cause some of those graphic API's like BitBlt is software based, slow, and limited to what you can do with it. DirectX and OpenGL on the other hand are super fast and hardware based with almost unlimited capabilities.
I've made a really good living creating database frontends with mainframe BASIC and now VB6 - for the past 25 years!
Given the three choices you listed in the poll - I would have to say yes to VB6.
I will be moving to VB.Net over the summer - pulling all my customers along with me as well.
Its not the language thats powerful its how you use it ;)
That's pretty much what I said. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pino
Bah :-p I just scanned the content :blush:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Roman
Sorry Jacob :(
While we're on the subject, how about a few comparisons? List some pros and cons of each, and which language is best used for what purpose.
which langauges would you like to compare?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nove
The language use is dependat on the job :)
(I am going to get this moved to the general developer forum)
Pino
Ok, i think it's just VB6, C++ and Java
Pros :) :
VB6: Easy to learn and powerfulish
Java:Easyish and powerfuller
C++:Powerfullest
Cons :mad: :
VB6: Help file is a bit weird
Java: It confuses me (Syntax is a bit long)
C++:*U^"&$%)&%! Complicated!
Well, I use all the languages listed above in the poll, but I don't agree with the assumption that Java is more powerful then VB. That is not true! However Java is platform independent, so if you need to write code to run on both Windows as well as any kind of Unix version Java would be the easiest language to port.
But we have to realise that 98% of the users are running some kind of Windows version, so if you're making a desktop application, Java would not be my choice of language (well Java IS NOT my choice of language for any kind of desktop application).
I do use C++ to some extent. I am an old C/C++ developer even though I've actually used VB since version 1.0 (or if it was version 1.1 that was released for Windows, I really can't remember. I know there was a VB for DOS and I've seen it and tried it out but I can't really say that I've used it since I've never made anything useful with it) I must say that I more often use VB6 today for pure Windows development then I use C or C++. Of course much development today strives for the .Net platform and in those cases I develop in booth VB.Net as well as C#. However when it comes to the .Net platform I, as an old VB programmer prefer VB.Net before C#, but I use them both.
To get to the point: I know C++ but I rarely do any development in that language today. Most new applications you find on the market are probably made with C++, but most developers don't create new applications they provide new systems or integrates already existing sytems for their customers.
In conclusion from an old time developer: Yes VB6 still have a market place, and VB is still one of the most easiest language to learn but is also a very powerful language for the Windows platform.
Then let me ask you...
If I have a lightweight VB6 frontend app right now - strong GUI - no business logic - should I consider migrating it to C or stick with VB.Net for the migration path? I'm not familiar with the C++ advantages over VB.Net for UI-type programs.
To be honest: I don't see any reason at all to migrate it whatsoever, unless your customer demands it. But if your customer demands you to port your code from one platform to another you wouldn't have to ask the question in the first place (since you would then know to which platform the translation should be made: The one your customer told you!).Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
You have to ask yourself: Do I have to migrate this code to another language and in that case why? Is it because a demand from my customer, and in that case you don't have to think about it since you have your customers demand. Is it because I just want to be on the edge on new technology? Well, in that case create some new software. Is it because I want to learn the new language? In this case: Yes! Porting your old code might be a good way of learning the new language. However starting from scratch and making the same kind of software would probably save you a lot of headache.
Language wise, visual basic is an extremely simple language. Visual basic really gets most of it's power from a huge library of functions that are availiable to be called. C on the other hand is a very complex language. It will take you a long time to master the langauge itself without even looking at the vast library it has surrounding it.Quote:
Originally Posted by soothsayer
From experience I can say that most people who go directly into C/C++ usually end up failing. In C++, you will not create a windows program for a very long time because you're having to learn so much about the langauge. Insead you will be writing programs that will only run in Dos / command prompt. You're also dealing with a CaSe SensitiVe langauge and each statment is terminated with a simi colon. It's probably reasonable to assume it would take someone nearly a year to learn the C/C++ language. Then after you do actually have the C langauge down, you will have to learn huge librarys like the windows API, MFC, ATL, STL, and on and on .net.
In a nutshell, I've seen books out there that say you can learn C++ in just 21 days, which is untrue. It will take years to master the C/C++ langauge.
Instead I recommend learning visual basic as you're first langauge. It's a very simple langauge and you will begin creating windows programs day 1. It's hides a huge amount of things from you so you can concentrate on learning the idea of programming. You will learn a few concepts that will aid you when you do begin learning C++. The windows API is a good example of something you will have to know in C++.
Just don't make the mistake that I see many developers make. That is learn one langauge and say "That's all I need". People get attached to their langauges for some reason. I've seen people say that ASM is all you need, I've seen people say the same thing about C, C++ and Visual Basic. I think it's some sort of madness programmers take. Always look at a problem and decide what language would create the best solution. =)
Good Luck with coding =)
The reason I asked you that question was that you seemed to hold both C# and VB.Net at the same level - at least it appeared to me that way. So I was curious if you thought C# should even be considered for a UI-frontend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson
My customers pay me maintenance fees and for that we keep them current. With MS dropping VB6 support around 2008, that gives us 3 years to plot a migration plan and execute it. With new versions of MS SQL Server coming down the road and Win2003 and all that - we need to keep current.
Our software house is new to PC's and VB - we were VAX-minicomputer developers until 4 years ago.
We ported our VAX applications to VB6/MS SQL server - VB.Net was too new at the time.
I was at one of my larger customers last week, involved in a best practice meeting to decide on what tools and DB's should be considered for ongoing development. VB.Net was obviously at the top of the list.
I am looking forward to learning VB.Net and expanding my language repertiore - which spans 30 years (BASIC's, FORTRAN's, Assemblers, COBOL, DIBOL - all kinds of 4th generation languages).
But at the same time I thought you might have an opinion on C# vs. VB.Net.
Of course you can use C# as a UI frontend. Since you already know VB6 you might, at least at start, find VB.Net easier to learn. But to learn any .Net language you must study the framework which is the key to do any developing regardless of the language of choice. Of course there are differences between C# and VB.Net, not only in the syntax but actually also what you can do with the two languages. The main difference is that you could use unmanaged code with C# (however I've never found any real reason to do so, since if I need to create unmanaged code I personally go with C++ instead).Quote:
The reason I asked you that question was that you seemed to hold both C# and VB.Net at the same level - at least it appeared to me that way. So I was curious if you thought C# should even be considered for a UI-frontend.
There are today a large flora of languages available for the .Net framework. Even Delphi is now ported to be used mainly for .Net. In short the language of choice, in my humble opinion, is less important then to understand how the framework works. You can even build one class in C# and inherit from that and create a subclass in VB.Net if you like. The IL language that the source is first compiled to is the same anyway.
With that said, many developers turn to C# because a C-style language must of course be much better then a toy language like VB, right?
As you might have understood already I don't agree with the last sentance.
C-style languages are about the only ones I've not worked in - my productivity is obviously much higher in BASIC-style. I can't discount that. I've heard that VB-toy language comment made many times - but I've earned a good living and built a strong business with that toy-language - so I've ignored the comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson
When we started this PC-migration I had thought we would be using C-style languages for some more "intensive" business logic - but we've chosen to put all business logic in T-SQL. We also thought that some extended SPROCS might be developed - also in C - but now with .Net you can put any .Net language into an extended SPROC. But we still haven't found the need to do that yet either...
So I guess it will be a few more years till I have a reason to go down the C path...
C++ is actually better then a toy language like visual basic, even when using .net code. The library is larger, the language is more powerful, and there is optimizations that you can apply to C that you can't get away with in visual basic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson
C# isn't C++ the .net version. It's a completely different langauge and it doesn't have the ability to create unmanaged code. It can call it, just like visual basic.
I'm fully aware that C# is not C++. I'm also aware that C++ is much more powerful compared to VB. I actually never said anything about that. However you can create unmanaged code with C# using the unsafe keyword, which is not available in VB.NetQuote:
Originally Posted by Maven
You're not really creating unmanaged code using the unsafe keyword. Unsafe code still is managed by the CLR, however you get access to pointers and variables so you can call unmanaged code that may require such things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson
Trying to write unmanaged code in C#/.NET or managed code in C++/not .NET is about as silly as trying to drink water from a plate and put your dinner in a glass.