The Future of Web Browsing In 3D!

I just came up with a killer idea. Have you people seen that movie Johnny Mnemonic starring Keanu Reeves? They had 3D internet! I'm amazed not to see this now. If I knew how to make my own webbrowser (I can easily get source code in PSC on webbrowsers) then I can make easily make a 3D one.

Now I plan on using DirectX8 to do this. The question is though, how would a regular plain and boring website get setup for a 3D environment? Ideas and examples would be helpful just so I get a general feel for what I'm aiming for.

I had an idea of making a 3D enviroment for the internet a while back and I know how I'd go about it too...problem is I don't have near enough time for such a project. The idea wouldn't be based on HTMl though, it would be pure 3D models. The landscape engine I was making with Note was going to be a vital componet for it however that project is also on hold at the moment cos both of us are poushed for time.

I have the whole thing set out in my head of the workings exactly but I don't want to give too much away as I do plan to get this done one day.

Of course there's always the Johnny Mnemonic way. Allow you to roam through a killer 3D world and you just enter a certain area and the entire website will be on just one polygon. But still it makes it seem boring. I'm more aiming to convert an ordinary 2D website to fullblown 3D.

I can program a basic webserver/web browser in VB.
I probably could in C++ twice as good.

I bet...Parsing the html file would get redudant but you could add your own tags for the 3D variables....that way you could keep the standard html format.

This sounds like an excellent project.

Shall we?

Let's do it. But first, I need to learn how web browser programming works and get it down pat. Then I need to learn as much HTML as possible and know how to parse the code. When all of these elements are mastered, creating our own language for our 3D web browser should be no problem. What shall we call it though?

I'd have to look at the web browser code I wrote in VB...I cannot remember the most basics, like what a browser like IE sends in order to fetch a page...It is all simple stuff tho...I worked with it years ago.

As for making a browser.....One must realize the browser we make must be able to process regular html and our lovely 3d format.

FREEZE!

Think for a second: What are the advantages of a 3d web page, besides looking cool? There have been numerous tries to '3d' the web, but so far none have worked.

I honestly can't picture 'walking around' a website... it seems like a hassle (please! think of the idiots who won't know *** is going on!).

Simply put: Don't go 3d unless it makes the website more effective.

You obviously haven't seen Johnny Mnemonic. It showed all kinds of features that wouldn't be possible in 2D internet. Some of it was done through VR where their hands controlled the 3D internet environment very nicely. Seemed more user friendly than our current technology. It may seem difficult to those who attempted it, but it will one day be mastered. It's not just for looking cool ya know. Technology must move on, and 3D is the next step.

16 years later along with a pandemic we still got no 3D web browser... Fail to all you programmers in the world. Mega fail

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

16 years later along with a pandemic we still got no 3D web browser... Fail to all you programmers in the world. Mega fail

---

???
WebGL is available for years now, in all Desktop- and Mobile-Browsers (even IE11 has support for it):
https://caniuse.com/webgl

And in case you want a bit more comfort around the "raw WebGL-Browser-API", there's tons of JavaScript-Wrapper-Libs available
(many of them supporting Fallbacks to Software-rendering, in the rare case WebGL is not supported).
https://gist.github.com/dmnsgn/76878...b712464875cfdc

FWIW, here is a simple demo, based on the "three.js" wrapper-lib:
https://threejs.org/examples/webgl_geometry_cube.html

Olaf

I think Jacob refers to a real 3D interface

Some movie samples:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/361625045069097389/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arnoutdv

I think Jacob refers to a real 3D interface

Some movie samples:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/361625045069097389/

---

Yeah - realized that afterwards, so ... sorry for the noise.

But that's not a software-problem IMO - more a hardware-related one -
which is (more or less) solved already.

And despite it being solved - nobody in his right mind considers using such VR-Interfaces in his daily work - for a good reason:
It's much less ergonomic compared to a physical keyboard + mouse combination.

These interfaces which require "grand gestures" (to "move-to", and then "select something") are totally inefficient and have less precision,
compared to the millimeter-shifts we apply to a good mouse (to "move-to" and later "click something" with another millimeter-movement).

That's also the reason, why we don't stand before "huge 60-80" touch-screens - applying swipe-gestures to them" in our offices -
(although the technology is long there - and works well in mobile-devices).

Swiping makes sense (ergonomically), as long as the "device is as small as our current Phones" - but nowhere else.

So these VR-based GUIs are "dead in the water" already conceptually for ergonomic reasons.

There might be a "revival" for VR-interfaces, as soon as "full immersion via Neuro-Implants" becomes a common thing
(but that's still 50-100 years away, before VR-sims becomes indistinguishable from reality via such "brain-connectors").

But even then, I'd be surprised when "information-search" would be any faster or more convenient,
compared to what the "2D-GoogleSearch-interface" presents to us today.

If you take a look at the Johnny Mnemonic snippet here (at 01:30):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzRjtvMQds4&t=90
It takes him about 8 seconds over all, to:
- navigate to some "floating globe"
- then selecting it
- to finally ... <drum-roll> ... unfold it !!! (to a more convenient "flat 2D-map-projection")

To achieve the same thing, I'm currently much faster:
- typing... [world map] ... into the Google-Search-Box (1sec typing + waiting for the response)
- followed by a small mouse-movement, to select and click one of the first links to get a "flat, projected earth-view" (another second)

Just saying... :)

Olaf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arnoutdv

I think Jacob refers to a real 3D interface

Some movie samples:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/361625045069097389/

---

Exactly my point. And it is possible without a keyboard and mouse. Were talking fully interactive websites. Its about to be 2021 and were still dealing with only 2d text, videos, and photos. This to me feels like the darkages. Web "sites" in a real 3d environment could be a virtual form of real estate called virtual estate. Opening up a whole new kind of money making market.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

... it is possible without a keyboard and mouse.

---

And then "totally inergonomic".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

Were talking fully interactive websites.

---

Such sites exist already.
They are called "3D-online-games".
And they are all (preferrably) manipulated via "tactile devices" (Mouse, Keyboard - or TouchInputs when your device is small enough)
And not via "grand gestures in the air".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

Its about to be 2021 and were still dealing with only 2d text, videos, and photos.

---

Because that's the fastest way for us humans, to not only "provide" but also "perceive information".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

Web "sites" in a real 3d environment could be a virtual form of real estate called virtual estate.

---

This is already supported on some business-websites, which deal with such things...
Some real estate agencies *do* offer interactive 3D-Models of "your new house or flat" (directly from the CAD-models of the planned project).

Most car-vendors offer interactive 3D-Models of their new cars (also directly imported from their CAD-blueprints).
Etc. pp..

But "full immersion for normal WebBrowsing"?

As already said, the fastest way of gathering and processing new information,
is when you read these informations on a flat "page".

This holds true not only for "normal WebSites" - but also in real-life (when you read a paper, or a book).

If you think otherwise, then let's get concrete ... please describe to me (in detail, if you don't mind),
how you imagine a future "google-search" for e.g.:
- a "cooking-recipe"
- which you plan to "put into practice" a few minutes later in your kitchen

How would you go about it, in a fully immersed 3D-environment (using hardware which does exist today)?

Olaf

I think Johnny Mnemonic's interpretation of the future of the internet is utter nonsense. You want to see a realistic portrayal of future tech, including the internet? Check out the anime, Ghost in a Shell. It's one of the most plausible representations of a possible tech-driven future I have ever seen. Basically their portrayal of the future is IoT on steroids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

Exactly my point. And it is possible without a keyboard and mouse. Were talking fully interactive websites. Its about to be 2021 and were still dealing with only 2d text, videos, and photos. This to me feels like the darkages. Web "sites" in a real 3d environment could be a virtual form of real estate called virtual estate. Opening up a whole new kind of money making market.

---

To replace what we have it needs to be "better" / "more convenient" than what we have right now, I fail to see how an immersive 3D rendered version of the internet achieves that. Right now with a simple keyboard and mouse (was pretty much just a mouse until I started typing this), I was browsing the web with a mouse in one hand, holding a much needed cup of coffee in the other hand while sitting in a comfy char, holding a conversation with my wife, and half watching an episode of Star Trek Enterprise; all at the same time. I am really not sure how this would have been improved by a 3D VR version, although my wife may have appreciated watching me spill my coffee while flailing my arms around to find the correct web page...

Why would a virtual form of real estate be more convenient than what we have now? URLs, links, search engines etc all seem easy enough ways to find things, without the need for 3D effects. People want things to be quick an efficient, flying around a 3D landscape to find what you are after seems a lot slower than typing a few words into google and hitting enter...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp

To replace what we have it needs to be "better" / "more convenient" than what we have right now, I fail to see how an immersive 3D rendered version of the internet achieves that. Right now with a simple keyboard and mouse (was pretty much just a mouse until I started typing this), I was browsing the web with a mouse in one hand, holding a much needed cup of coffee in the other hand while sitting in a comfy char, holding a conversation with my wife, and half watching an episode of Star Trek Enterprise; all at the same time. I am really not sure how this would have been improved by a 3D VR version, although my wife may have appreciated watching me spill my coffee while flailing my arms around to find the correct web page...

Why would a virtual form of real estate be more convenient than what we have now? URLs, links, search engines etc all seem easy enough ways to find things, without the need for 3D effects. People want things to be quick an efficient, flying around a 3D landscape to find what you are after seems a lot slower than typing a few words into google and hitting enter...

---

Well just like the airplane from over 117 years ago, noone thought that we could fly. Until somebody finally did it right. Just like 3D web browsing. Someone needs to implement it correctly for it to work better and easier than how we browse the web now. In the end, it's all about design. There are a million ways it could be designed wrong but once designed right, could open so many doors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

In the end, it's all about design.
There are a million ways it could be designed wrong but once designed right, could open so many doors.

---

You mean, like in "The Matrix" - when they enter that "virtual storage facility" -
and all those weapon-racks "fly by" in a cool 3D-animation...?

And somehow "magically" the weapon-racks "just know" when to stop
(guessing correctly, what kind of weapon you had in mind)?

I mean, when I'm currently searching (via google) for the term:
[BratHendl] ... (a bavarian-german term ... in english: "Roast Chicken")
I get immediately (at least here - from "german-localized" google-browsing):
- an easily scrollable list of nice looking chicks (all wearing healthy looking shades of "roast-burn")

Now I imagine those chickens "just whooshing by" - Matrix-like - in 3D ...
... tons and tons of racks of roasted chicken...
... and not only two lines of racks (before and behind you) ...
... no, there should be several streams of "fly-by racks of roasted chicken" (all around you)...
SO cool... :)

It'd be so cool, you'd never wan't to stop that animation ...
(e.g. to select one of them, to get it's recipe and march off into your own kitchen).

Guess, cooking something yourself will not be needed anymore -
the consumption of cool 3D-effects alone will satisfy your appetites in the future... ;)

Olaf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

Well just like the airplane from over 117 years ago, noone thought that we could fly. Until somebody finally did it right. Just like 3D web browsing. Someone needs to implement it correctly for it to work better and easier than how we browse the web now. In the end, it's all about design. There are a million ways it could be designed wrong but once designed right, could open so many doors.

---

I would imagine people may have doubted if an airplane could fly, I suspect they would however have seen the benefits of faster travel. People have always been travelling and moving, the benefits of being able to travel faster were well known before the invention of planes...

I am not sure what the benefits of a 3D, virtual web would be - would it allow me to multitask easier? Search quicker? Move between a task (such as coding) and the web (for research)? Would it allow me to have the same convenience of a multi-monitor setup?

I am not trying to be negative here, I just genuinely can't visualise how an immersive, 3D version of the internet would allow me to do things in an easier, quicker, or more convenient way.

Compare to finding an address on a map and show the route.
Looks cool in 3D, but is much more convenient in 2D.

Remembers me of a scene in Jurassic Park.
“It’s a unix system” and the a very inconvenient 3D representation of a file system, which takes a lot of time to navigate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arnoutdv

Compare to finding an address on a map and show the route.
Looks cool in 3D, but is much more convenient in 2D.

Remembers me of a scene in Jurassic Park.
“It’s a unix system” and the a very inconvenient 3D representation of a file system, which takes a lot of time to navigate

---

The reason movies do this is not because the interface is more convenient to the user but because it's a convenient way to communicate to the audience what is happening. If they chose to do it realistically and have the tech guys type in a bunch of cryptic command lines, it will confuse the hell out of 95% of the audience. Movies only show cryptic command lines when they want to communicate how brilliant the tech guy is and 95% of people will buy it never knowing that's command line stuff is actually barely above secretary work. Anyone can do it with a bit of know-how.

Hasn't a 3D internet been pretty much the "dream" of the internet since the beginning? I mean *coff* *coff* Second Life....


-tg

I believe 3D web browsing would require a combination of voice recognition to ask Google questions (similar to searching when we type), data gloves for moving objects around within the virtual web "site" or typing in a virtual keyboard, possibly VR for when needed but not always, and most importantly the correct interface. And you can allow this virtual web "site" to come out as a 3D hologram too, or the objects within! Many movies show this potential, such as Johnny Mnemonic, Ironman 1, 2, and 3, Ready Player One, etc. Let's face it, we are still in the dark ages of the internet with the simple yet primitive interface.

Ready Player One is a whole other level. I'd say we are at least 2 centuries away from that.