Or maybe you all secretly thought they deserved it? :p
.
Printable View
Or maybe you all secretly thought they deserved it? :p
.
No. I have been thinking about it a lot.
My first reaction was: I am not surprised.
But then I thought: Where are the Indians? They were supposed to guard these jails.
Seriously, this is very bad, and no amount of reminding the world that others have done worse is going to make it right.
As for the military, the first thing to do is bring the UCMJ down hard on the stupid guards. Maximum sentences and dishonorable discharges. Second, is do the same to their chain of command as far up as you can go. Third is to eliminate the conceite (sp?) in the intelligence groups (we picked up some bad habits from the Nazis and Japanese after the war). Fourth is change the balance of divisions back to pre-Clinton days -- way more regular divisions than reserve/guard.
As for the government, I don't think much will change it's approach unless they think it will affect the elections in November. I really don't think that they have a grip on the ways the rest of the world looks at us or how that might ultimately affect us. If those outside the USofA think that John Kerry does, you are mistaken. The world is in for a boatload of crap as long as the president's office and both houses are occupied by people who call themselves Democrats or Republicans.
Oh, now I've done it. The NSA or FBI knows what I said. If you don't hear from me again...
Actually I was just now going to make a post about it then seen yours.
I support pulling out of IRAQ at this very moment. Quite honestly the damage that has been done from these stupid soldiers is not going to be repaired in any shape form or fashion in Iraq. This will give our enemies across the world a new campain for recruitment. This makes this war one of the largest failures in USA history.
What those soldiers did was a disgrace and illegal by our laws. I think they should be punished by the full extent of our law. I also think that the defense secretary should resign immediately. All commanders who knew of this and did nothing should share the same fate as the soldiers. What they did will cost lives and everyone who was involved should be punished as much as the law allows.
On another note:
I think Kerry will do fine as President. I do feel sorry for whoever takes office after bush though, they will have a lot of burdens to carry. The main one I'm wanting to see took care of is outsourcing.
I figured someone like honeybee would be the first to post about it anyway. I wasn't sure if it was wrong or not, I was waiting for honeybee to decide.
Ai tol' yah so!
Been avoiding saying that.
Every action has a logical consequence. Maybe more than one, but nevertheless logical.
Check out my posts here before the invasion and over at Galah (if they are still around). Violence breeds violence which begets decadence which ends up in depravity resulting in failure.
*cough*galah is mangojacks now*cough*
Anyway, it'll be interesting how the powers that be will handle this fallout. No doubt some dirt will stick around until november.
Didn't know that! 'll be there soon.Quote:
Originally posted by Wally Pipp
*cough*galah is mangojacks now*cough*....
It appears everyone was waiting for someone else to start a thread.
If this is what they do on camera (with apparently worse to come) what were they doing off camera?
As for their defence "We were just following orders" where have we heard that before.
Two wrongs don't make a right. It's not because of 9/11 and the former regime did it that all bets are off and all is excusable.
Certainly not when you're trying your best to convince everyone you're there for the good cause. A daily Good News Show isn't going to cut it this time ... :rolleyes:
I didn't, I openly thought they did.Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Or maybe you all secretly thought they deserved it?
Do you have anything specific, something that he did, in mind?Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
I also think that the defense secretary should resign immediately.
I Keep hearing it reported that people are saying this, but I have yet to hear what they think he did wrong in relation to this Prisoner abuse situation.
:wave:
-Lou
He did nothing. that is what he did wrong. they have known about the torture and abuse for over a year! thanks to Red Cross reports. They only started prosecuting the lowest level, part time soldiers after an American T.V. show aired them.Quote:
Originally posted by Something Else
Do you have anything specific, something that he did, in mind?
I Keep hearing it reported that people are saying this, but I have yet to hear what they think he did wrong in relation to this Prisoner abuse situation.
:wave:
-Lou
Humans are the lowest form of life on this planet and we should all be destroyed post haste.
:afrog:
VB's resident Poet Laureate has already penned a few verses in regards to this a few threads below.;)Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Re: No One Speaking About Iraqi Prisoner Abuse??
Who ? Ian ?
Was waiting to hear someone blame it on Bush and for honeybee tell us about arrogant Americans again.
This is nothing new. Every war and every army in the world has had the problems with out of control soldiers breaking international laws and conventions.
For example, I can't remember the dates of this, but if you surrendered to Russians, you were paraded down the street like a hero. Then executed. :o
And that makes it alright then ?
Personally, I think it is despicable.
I think the soldiers and officers involved should be court martialed.
This is a shot in the foot for the US, in its attempts to create some type of relationship with the muslim world.
It was inhumane, indecent and a clear violation of their civil rights and the Geneva convention.
I personally think the soldiers should be made examples of, just to demonstrate to the american public and the world in general, that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. Whether the behavior be from an E-1 Private or a Commanding Officer.
I didnt say it was alright did I? Just trying to make a point for those people that are going to try blowing some smokes up our a%& with anti-US sentiment.Quote:
Originally posted by Wally Pipp
And that makes it alright then ?
Its all Bulls*** anyway. How can laws be involved in war? The two dont go together, you can bomb a building and kill civilians but you cant torture people.
Perhaps we should have a big dueling ring with one on one battles between IRAQ and American soldiers.
haha, as I read in an article, america's own extremist suicide is the digital camera!
If you are serious then I pity you.Quote:
Originally posted by davebat
Its all Bulls*** anyway. How can laws be involved in war? The two dont go together, you can bomb a building and kill civilians but you cant torture people.
Where does anti-US sentiment fit in ? :confused:Quote:
Originally posted by Cander
I didnt say it was alright did I? Just trying to make a point for those people that are going to try blowing some smokes up our a%& with anti-US sentiment.
There were pictures, there were reports, there were admissions, there were even unexpected apologies.
The whole thing is not done by any standard and should be dealt with forthwith. The image damage is enormous and it's going to take some convincing that you really are there to help the Iraqis.
Pre-empting with "anti-US sentiment" statements is, dare I say it, symptomatic of the times.
Is it suddenly anti-US to say this shouldn't happen in any war ? Good grief man ...
No. You are not getting what I am saying.
Everytime something new pops up in the news about what is going on in Iraq, I have to read about how arrogant Americans are and as if its all of America that was to blame while acting high and mighty as if they are from the Garden of Eden. Then the usual uninformed comments from people who's knowledge of history spans 1 presidential term. Its a bunch of bulls***! It was some Soldiers that are to blame, not Americans, not Bush! Get it?
Oh I get it alright ...
And you wonder why there are "arrogant US" comments ? Look no further, analyze your own post and learn for a change.
Good thing we have you to point out the rights and wrongs eh. Where would we be without you ? Probably in the same spot only a lot happier ...
I say we spend some of that reconstruction money building new prisons and sell the videos on the internet. May even turn a profit from this mess.
There was nothing arrogant about my statement. I dont pretend to be superior to anybody. I dont wear blinders to the rest of the world and its history. I don't close my eyes to all sides of the story focusing only on the side the furthers my opinion.
Good onya then.
:thumb:
But anyway. Yes what happened is a tragedy. You would think that after what has happened in previous wars, the people in charge of these soldiers would provide more safe guards to prevent this.
Is there anything that CAN be done?
mmhmmmQuote:
Originally posted by Cander
:thumb:
But anyway. Yes what happened is a tragedy. You would think that after what has happened in previous wars, the people in charge of these soldiers would provide more safe guards to prevent this.
Is there anything that CAN be done?
Take no prisoners, that'll solve it.
Amen, people who goa round trying to put down bush really need to get a life, no matter if it was right or wrong to go into iraq its done!!Quote:
Originally posted by Cander
Was waiting to hear someone blame it on Bush and for honeybee tell us about arrogant Americans again.
This is nothing new. Every war and every army in the world has had the problems with out of control soldiers breaking international laws and conventions.
For example, I can't remember the dates of this, but if you surrendered to Russians, you were paraded down the street like a hero. Then executed. :o
and as for this comment posted earlyer on,
thats the most stupid thing anyone could say because what would happen when the allies leave..... yep another regime would step in blow up london and we will be abck to square one!Quote:
posted by Maven
I support pulling out of IRAQ at this very moment.
BAH!
But then you have the problem of people who surrender being executed.
It isnt anymore humane.
build some hiltons, place the prisioners inside, and take away those female soldiers, they are nasty!!
Quote:
Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Oh I get it alright ...
And you wonder why there are "arrogant US" comments ? Look no further, analyze your own post and learn for a change.
Good thing we have you to point out the rights and wrongs eh. Where would we be without you ? Probably in the same spot only a lot happier ...
omg you people just get worse..
See ? You don't even know me, you don't even know my POV and worst of all, you just assume that whatever my views are they must be against yours and in turn against the US.
If you bothered to read what I posted then you'd know I'm asking what your current government will do with these cases, that two wrongs don't make a right. I don't make excuses, I don't intend to smear your glorious leader. In fact, I don't even care for your learder as he sure as hell isn't mine.
I reacted to the fact that someone will inevitably try to pre-empt any criticism as anti-US just as someone will inevitably put the blame on Bush and co. For the record and see above, that isn't me. I'm asking valid questions.
I neither have the time nor the desire to continue debating this jingoistic nonsense so please stick to the topic at hand and stick your assumptions where the sun doesn't shine. Can't be that hard, can it ?
Perhaps We could discuss:
If one were to interragate POW's, and certainly torture is out of the question, what methods would you use to "break" them?
Apparently, having them strip naked and build human pyramids is inhumane, as is puting leashes on them and being led around by ugly female dominatrixes in army boots, {Hmmm, where did they come up with these? Standard Army Ranger Training Experiences? College Frat initiations? Hustler Humor?}.
But They also were forced into sleep deprivation. Propably they were put on restricted meals, {Research says lowering calorie consumption is healthy, so is it abuse?}. Should this be allowed?
What other non-torture methods would you allow/or/say is inhumane? Obviously All Interigation is inhumane, right down to what is done to criminal suspects in every country, chaining them to tables or chairs via handcuffs, verbally being shouted at, harrased, being told what'll happen to them if they don't cooperate, certainly "gentle" shoves, et al.
Should Anyone be Interigated ever?
:wave:
-Lou
You are serious, right?Quote:
Originally posted by Pino
..... yep another regime would step in blow up london and we will be abck to square one!
BAH!
No hope! Absolutely none whatsoever!
You have actually bought the Iraq-Saddam Huessein-11/9/2001-Al Qaeda-Islamic Fundementalism crap.
God save you and me from you!
I do believe that in every war, both sides commit illegal actions against POW. But, considering the background of THIS particular war, the repercutions will be huge, there are more pics out there that haven't been revealed and it will only affect the present administration....
by the way, anyone remembers that german movie about an experiment with prisoners and guards....? and, I do remember a link about a REAL experiment that lasted only a couple of days because the guards started to violently act against the prisoners, I will look for that link and post it here..
I wasnt talking about ANY criticism = anti-US. Im talking very direct anti US/US government statements that HAVE been made often before, here and on other forums.
Quite frankly tired of reading on forums about how Americans are fat, lazy, stupid, and arrogant. :rolleyes:
Well I would have to argue that there is a difference between sleep deprevation/verbal abuse/etc versus hooking someone's testicle to electricity.Quote:
Originally posted by NotLKH
Perhaps We could discuss:
If one were to interragate POW's, and certainly torture is out of the question, what methods would you use to "break" them?
Apparently, having them strip naked and build human pyramids is inhumane, as is puting leashes on them and being led around by ugly female dominatrixes in army boots, {Hmmm, where did they come up with these? Standard Army Ranger Training Experiences? College Frat initiations? Hustler Humor?}.
But They also were forced into sleep deprivation. Propably they were put on restricted meals, {Research says lowering calorie consumption is healthy, so is it abuse?}. Should this be allowed?
What other non-torture methods would you allow/or/say is inhumane? Obviously All Interigation is inhumane, right down to what is done to criminal suspects in every country, chaining them to tables or chairs via handcuffs, verbally being shouted at, harrased, being told what'll happen to them if they don't cooperate, certainly "gentle" shoves, et al.
Should Anyone be Interigated ever?
:wave:
-Lou