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The original reason the US went to war was the suspected existence of WMDs in Iraq, but almost two weeks into war, nobody is talking about WMDs anymore, and the war has funnily been named Operation Iraqi Freedom or something.
Why a change of focus?
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Its only been 2 weeks into the war and strangely enough reports are already suggesting that Republican Guard units plan to use chemical weapons against US soldiers. And they even found 3000 chemical suits in one Iraqi city. What do you think of that HoneyBee?
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Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
Its only been 2 weeks into the war and strangely enough reports are already suggesting that Republican Guard units plan to use chemical weapons against US soldiers. And they even found 3000 chemical suits in one Iraqi city. What do you think of that HoneyBee?
They also found republican gard soldiers with gas masks and atropine.
And, as much as I keep what the news says as suspect, they are reporting that they have information that as soon as the troops get within a certain area of Baghdad, they will start using chem weapons on them.
At this point, they have to use them. Its the only way this way will ever be seen as justified in retrospect.
There are multiple objectives to this war. If you would read UNSCR's 687 and 688 you would understand what those objectives are. Yes, WMD's are a part of this war, but so is the liberation of the iraqi people.
As far as finding the WMD's go, did you expect them to be sitting out in the open? For the coalition troops to just wander upon? It has already been stated that the likely hood of finding them during this time is not a concern. After the regime has been toppled then they will start a country wide search for them after getting additional intelligence from iraqi soliders, officers and civilians.
You can't expect the coalition to be searching for WMD's while being fired upon by the enemy. The first objective is to defeat the regime, and provide humanitarian aid to the iraqi people, then they can start searching for the WMD's.
That is, unless Saddam decides to attack with them first.
It was called that since the beginning.Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
and the war has funnily been named Operation Iraqi Freedom or something.
And where are all the WMDs? In Saddam's pants. Don't worry. We're going in soon.
Just because they have found chemical suits doesn't mean they have chemical weapons. That's what I think. Protecting yourself against a danger doesn't at all indicate you are capable of causing that danger to others.Quote:
Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
Its only been 2 weeks into the war and strangely enough reports are already suggesting that Republican Guard units plan to use chemical weapons against US soldiers. And they even found 3000 chemical suits in one Iraqi city. What do you think of that HoneyBee?
Apart from the so-called "red line" around Baghdad, I have not heard any single report or comment pointing to a possible use of chemical weapons by the Iraqi forces. And that "red line" report too must be one of the propaganda reports. Somebody floats the rumour and it's systematically converted into a speculation and force-fed to people through controlled media so people actually start believing in it.
The only news item so far that directly related to any WMDs was yesterday on BBC I read about a team of US marines searching a site (which they said Mr. Powell had referred to in his UN speeches) and that they didn't find any prima facie evidence it was used for manufacturing chemical weapons.
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Read my statement again. This war is only 2 weeks older (actually less than that). Gas masks, chemical suits.... have already been found. Reports are appearing of probable use of chemical weapons. What more do u want? let this war be over, we'll find them.
Chemical suits, gas masks, atrapine injections.. what does that tell you? Are they afraid the U.S. is going to use chemical weapons against them? Hahaha.... quit being so nieve HoneyBee.
And actually the war is 11 days old not 2 weeks. Also, as was stated, we are not currently searching for WMD's we are trying to fight a war. If we wonder upon them on accident then great but there won't be any real searching untill we have control of the country.
I believe there was a previous thread that answered this question..... he uses Pocket WMDs running a mix of PalmOS, WinCE and PocketWin.Quote:
Originally posted by The Hobo
And where are all the WMDs? In Saddam's pants. Don't worry. We're going in soon.
They've also found a lot of sand....Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
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They also found republican gard soldiers with gas masks and atropine.
Lets just all hope that he doesn't have WMD's and that the USA is completely wrong. One may stop after reading that and ask why would you want your country to be wrong? I think it would be better for us to be wrong then to be right and see thousands dead. Either way, lets just hope that no biological or chemical weapons are used in this war.
Good point. If we find them, I hope we find them hidden somewhere. On the other hand, I don't really see why we care about WMD. Most of that stuff is relatively easy to manufacture (except for nuclear). Some might say that they aren't so easy, but that's not really true. The difficult part is the knowledge on how to manufacture. The scientists that worked on these projects retain the knowledge of the process. The next regime will have these resources, or else they may go to the highest bidder. Would Osama really have difficulty finding some location to manufacture chemical or biological weapons once he has some people experienced in that process?
Thats right, Chemical weapons are the easiest to create. Bio and Nuclear weapons are much more difficult. All you really need for a chemical weapon is large enough quantities of purified chemicals.
Nuclear is pretty tough, but I think bio isn't quite as difficult. I feel that a functional small-scale bio terrorism lab could probably be set up in an apartment. After all, the people we are really worried about aren't thinking about national defence scale production, and they generally aren't too concerned about area contamination. In fact, they might prefer it. Chemical is probably more effective, though. Despite all we have seen with bio-terrorism, I wonder how tough it really is.
Well you need to stop and think of what kind of deadly checmial weapons. I can mix dry clorine that you would purify the water with and a pepsi or coke to create something that'll kill ya if you inhale it. Something like VX however is harder to come by, its the one product that Saddam has in his arsenal that I would like to see dissappear.Quote:
Originally posted by Shaggy Hiker
Good point. If we find them, I hope we find them hidden somewhere. On the other hand, I don't really see why we care about WMD. Most of that stuff is relatively easy to manufacture (except for nuclear). Some might say that they aren't so easy, but that's not really true. The difficult part is the knowledge on how to manufacture. The scientists that worked on these projects retain the knowledge of the process. The next regime will have these resources, or else they may go to the highest bidder. Would Osama really have difficulty finding some location to manufacture chemical or biological weapons once he has some people experienced in that process?
He may have VX, but he can't create more. VX might be one of the most deadly bioweapons there is, but its extremely difficult to produce.Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
Well you need to stop and think of what kind of deadly checmial weapons. I can mix dry clorine that you would purify the water with and a pepsi or coke to create something that'll kill ya if you inhale it. Something like VX however is harder to come by, its the one product that Saddam has in his arsenal that I would like to see dissappear.
why would he need to make more when he already has it?Quote:
Originally posted by nishantp
He may have VX, but he can't create more. VX might be one of the most deadly bioweapons there is, but its extremely difficult to produce.
Far as i know VX isn't a "Bio" weapon it's a "Chemical" weapon. And i don't know the details of creating VX but i'm sure sadam could create it if he needed to.
Let's see now:
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Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
Let this war be over, we'll find them.
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Originally posted by Arc
Also, as was stated, we are not currently searching for WMD's we are trying to fight a war. If we wonder upon them on accident then great but there won't be any real searching untill we have control of the country.
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Originally posted by Maven
Lets just all hope that he doesn't have WMD's and that the USA is completely wrong.
What IF you DON'T find any WMDs? Iraq is still destroyed, America still rules Iraq? Isn't it?
I can't believe you don't understand the gravity of the situation :(
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I think they just found 2 Frog Missisles that were on the banned list of weapons that Iraq was not supposed to have. Its only a matter of time before the other weapons are uncovered. I dont think its a question of "if" they will find WMD's, I think its more of a question of "when".Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Let's see now:
What IF you DON'T find any WMDs? Iraq is still destroyed, America still rules Iraq? Isn't it?
I can't believe you don't understand the gravity of the situation :(
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X
Well even if we don't find any WMD's (which we will) IRaq will still be a much better place in the long run :) So it's all good.Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Let's see now:
What IF you DON'T find any WMDs? Iraq is still destroyed, America still rules Iraq? Isn't it?
I can't believe you don't understand the gravity of the situation :(
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Unless America is a worse place in the same long run. We could end up with worse terrorist attacks for arrogance coupled with ignorance.
Who gives a monkeys FU£K ?
Maybe he has hidden them in Mecca.
Lets bomb MECCA :-)
Ok, I see the trend, but I don't understand it.
Why bomb Mecca?
My point was not that he has or doesn't have chemical/bio weapons. He has the brains (not him personally, you understand) to be able to develop them. Removing the weapons won't change anything, and we wouldn't consider removing the brains. Therefore, our objective in the war seems suspect. Removing Sadam only seems valuable if the alternative is better. As far as I can see, even Bush doesn't believe that.
well you can exactly set up a nuke plant in your garage... it takes not only knowledge.. but resources to create such weapons.. resources that saddam has supplied to the people who know how to make them..
It seems to me that I recently read something about some nut who actually managed to aquire enough low grade nuclear material to create a chair reaction. He wasn't malicious, just curious and resourceful (and he now has a glowing personality).
In any event, I wasn't really thinking of nuclear weapons. I suspect that the resources needed to make chemical weapons (as Maven pointed out) are modest enough that anybody could buy them. Of course, you can't make enough for a national program, but you could make enough for a terrorist program.
The knowledge may be worse than the weapons, and the knowledge will be spread far and wide.
Yeah, that's a pointless argument, I'm going fishing now.
I think I know why 9/11 happened now. :(Quote:
Originally posted by Arc
Well even if we don't find any WMD's (which we will) IRaq will still be a much better place in the long run :) So it's all good.
May God bless the likes of you, because I don't see much hope for the world with people like you in it :rolleyes:
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