A Thread to Delete

Printable View

Jan 3rd, 2003, 01:18 PM
The Hobo

A Thread to Delete

Quote:

Originally Posted By GusVenditto

A few of you have noticed -- and commented on -- the changes we made to the page templates in recent days. I'm sorry a number of you aren't happy with the changes or with the fact that we made some of these changes incrementally. But we are done with the current work and things should settle down now.

You're done now?! This is it? Did you happen to realize it still looks bad? Have you? Did you guys do any testing? Market analysis? Figure out what the people want?

Don't tell me..."Since this is a free site, it's not about the people. It's about the money." Well what's the purpose of having a free site that no one wants to go to?

Quote:

Originally Posted By GusVenditto

The links that are being displayed are to VBwire.com, a website that publishes daily news on VB products and services. This content balances out a space for advertising. When no ad is scheduled to run on a page, the box expands to fill the space.

Fill the space? Did you're "web developers" test it on all resolutions? Because it sure as hell doesn't fill the whole space in my window...

Quote:

Originally Posted By GusVenditto

I have heard from a number of people who prefer the old look but these changes are being done with the intent of speeding up the site's performance while balancing the needs of advertisers and the workload required to maintain the site.

The advertisers are happy. That's good.

Quote:

Originally Posted By GusVenditto

One chnage that may disappoint some people is that we have elminated the gold page design. Only one color scheme is now available.

Why? Random changes to piss people off?

Quote:

Originally Posted By GusVenditto

Some people have mentioned that cookies are being downloaded. These are solely related to the ads; the ad servers are confirming delivery of the ads. Jupitermedia is not monitoring anyone's browsing. Our Privacy Policy is always available if you want to learn more about it. Others have suggested that the site will soon be over-run with pop-ups and other annoying ads; you can rest assured we do not deliver pop-ups and the advertising we accept is aimed at high-tech professionals.

Bull****.

Quote:

Originally Posted By GusVenditto

Over time, I think you'll find this is consistent with how we will keep the site useful. We will continue to make sure the site's performance is fast and serves the needs of VB professional programmers. I'm gratified to see that membership is growing at a very healthy pace, and serious discussion on VB is as strong as ever.

More people are signing up, asking one question, and leaving, while old members are leaving. By the way, how do you gauge your membership? By the number of members? Do you realize more than half of those numbers no longer visit the site? Go and see how many members have posted 0 or 1 post...

Quote:

Originally Posted By GusVenditto

If want to voice your opinion on any of these issues, feel free to send me a PM any time.

Heaven forbid the rest of the community sees my opinions.

Send this to your little recycle bin.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 01:21 PM
phrozeman

Go Hobo Go!

Nice spoken :D
Jan 3rd, 2003, 02:05 PM
techgnome

No, really Hobo, tell us how you really feel.

:D :p
Jan 3rd, 2003, 02:21 PM
VB_ChickenPower

Re: A Thread to Delete

Quote:

Originally posted by The Hobo

More people are signing up, asking one question, and leaving, while old members are leaving. By the way, how do you gauge your membership? By the number of members? Do you realize more than half of those numbers no longer visit the site? Go and see how many members have posted 0 or 1 post...

There are 18154 users with a 1 or 0 post count. There are 36532 users total.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 02:31 PM
GusVenditto

The only threads that will be deleted are those that degenerate into personal attacks, slander or into the type of behavior detailed in the Acceptable Use Policy

I'm gauging membership by involvement. The number of threads are up and the total number of visitors to the site is up. New members of course don't have many posts. That's pretty standard of any discussion board. It takes time.

At the same time, while a few people complained about the addition of links to VB Wire headlines, several thousand people clicked on those links.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 02:41 PM
MasterBlaster

Quote:

Originally posted by GusVenditto
of any discussion board. It takes time.

At the same time, while a few people complained about the addition of links to VB Wire headlines, several thousand people clicked on those links.

Yup so you made your money. That's all that matters. You want to make some more money. Fire the dumb arse blind site designers you hired. You know what. Use popups instead. At least we can block them.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 03:27 PM
techgnome

Quote:

Originally posted by GusVenditto
At the same time, while a few people complained about the addition of links to VB Wire headlines, several thousand people clicked on those links.

That's because we wanted to know what NeoCalendar was all about. The feel quickly passed though. My biggest prob w/ VBWire is that updates are slow. Since it is user driven as well, I've seen instances where the same list of headlines were there all day long, and even in to the next.
I have to say this much, at least the VBWire fgeed now have some formatting on that looks like it might belong where it does.
BTW: It does not fill the entire width of the screen as per previous claims.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 03:30 PM
The Hobo

Quote:

Originally posted by GusVenditto

New members of course don't have many posts. That's pretty standard of any discussion board. It takes time.

You're missing my point. More than 80% of the member count haven't been to this site in years. They had one question, they asked it, then they left. It's not a matter of taking time, Gus.

Do you know what I mean?

And seriously, do you guys have web developers or monkies in purple suits trained to hit buttons? You still have yet to integrate the banners INTO the design. INTO the design. They've always disrupted it, and continue to do so. That's so incredibly unprofessional and damn ugly.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 03:50 PM
blindlizard

Quote:

Originally posted by GusVenditto
The only threads that will be deleted are those that degenerate into personal attacks, slander or into the type of behavior detailed in the Acceptable Use Policy

I'm gauging membership by involvement. The number of threads are up and the total number of visitors to the site is up. New members of course don't have many posts. That's pretty standard of any discussion board. It takes time.

At the same time, while a few people complained about the addition of links to VB Wire headlines, several thousand people clicked on those links.

I just clicked on the InstantGallery.NET link. THere was a place for comments. I wrote a comment, but it said they would put it on after a reievew of it. What is the point of comments if the owners review it. Talk about censorship!!!
Jan 3rd, 2003, 04:44 PM
Slaine

Quote:

Originally posted by GusVenditto
Some people have mentioned that cookies are being downloaded. These are solely related to the ads; the ad servers are confirming delivery of the ads. Jupitermedia is not monitoring anyone's browsing. Our Privacy Policy is always available if you want to learn more about it.

Gus, I have taken the time to read your company propaganda and as quoted below, it quite clearly states that your advertisers will track personal information.

Quote:

from Jupitermedia Corporation Privacy Policy
How do you use single-pixel gifs?

JUPM and its advertisers may use single-pixel gif images, sometimes referred to as web bugs or web beacons, to count Web page accesses and gather some general statistical information. JUPM does not gather personal information through the use of these images. Our advertisers may use single-pixel gifs that can track personal information from cookies that may have been previously placed on a user's computer by an advertiser.

Quote:

Originally posted by GusVenditto
Others have suggested that the site will soon be over-run with pop-ups and other annoying ads; you can rest assured we do not deliver pop-ups and the advertising we accept is aimed at high-tech professionals.

It is probably churlish to suggest that you don't deliver popup ads because they are easier to block and hence your advertisers can not be certain they are ever seen.

May I also point out that in your AUP Agreement you still have the following controversial statement after we were given assurances that it would be removed.

Quote:

By posting, you hereby grant us a perpetual, non-exclusive license to the posted content for use online, in print, databases, CD, and any and all other media, whether now known or hereafter created.

I am currently in the process of applying to your organisation for details of all data you currently hold on me, and for information on how that data is used - as is my lawfull right under the UK Data Protection Act 1998. I would suggest that other people consider doing the same.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 05:07 PM
MasterBlaster

Quote:

Originally posted by Slaine

I am currently in the process of applying to your organisation for details of all data you currently hold on me, and for information on how that data is used - as is my lawfull right under the UK Data Protection Act 1998. I would suggest that other people consider doing the same.

After considering Slaine's statement I have provided my personal info to save thes monkeys the trouble of spying on me. Here you go coco

Physical attributes.
A. I have a 10 inch tounge and can breathe through my ears.
B. The hair in my avatar is my real hair.
C. My ears produce large amounts of wax after bubble baths.

Recent Shopping History
A. bought 2 gasoline powered feet scrubbers from footfetish.com
B. Subscribe to "mud wrestler weekly" and "Training your Chiapet magazine".
C. Downloaded Andy Gibb Singing "Shadow Dancing" 6,732 times this year.

Family History
A Father: Unknown
B Mother: Left me in a Dumpster
C Brother: Might be a sister, not sure what's werong with him yet
D Children: The biatch cant prove their mine.
E. Wife: I the back yard eating the lawn.

Fair enuff
Now gimme your personal info Gus.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 07:00 PM
GusVenditto

Regarding the privacy/cookie issues:

Jupitermedia -- the company running this website -- does not track user's browsing. Advertisers will set cookies to determine if you've seen their ads. There is a significant distinction between these two. If you want to file your request for disclosure, you'll find an email address in the privacy policy and I'm pretty sure you'll get the same answer I gave you: we have no information on you. Period.

Regarding the license and what was said:

It was changed -- it had said, an "exclusive" license. That was changed to "non-exclusive."

As to the rest, please be civil and I'lll answer your questions. If you don't like the design, or other decisions, I've made. Fine.

But if you want to discuss the issues, refrain from the insults, OK?
Jan 3rd, 2003, 07:13 PM
Slaine

Quote:

Originally posted by GusVenditto
Regarding the privacy/cookie issues:

Jupitermedia -- the company running this website -- does not track user's browsing. Advertisers will set cookies to determine if you've seen their ads. There is a significant distinction between these two. If you want to file your request for disclosure, you'll find an email address in the privacy policy and I'm pretty sure you'll get the same answer I gave you: we have no information on you. Period.

You must hold some information on me otherwise I wouldn't be able to log on to VB Forums ;) - Actually I'm not singleing Jupitermedia out in this case, I'm in the process of doing this for a lot of the organisations I deal with. Now I know that I need to add your advertisers to my list - thanks.

Regarding the license and what was said:

It was changed -- it had said, an "exclusive" license. That was changed to "non-exclusive."

My mistake - please accept my apology

As to the rest, please be civil and I'lll answer your questions. If you don't like the design, or other decisions, I've made. Fine.

But if you want to discuss the issues, refrain from the insults, OK?

I don't think this is aimed at me - at least I hope not - I have tried never to insult you (or Brad for that matter) you're both just employees doing a job, it's not your fault.
Jan 3rd, 2003, 07:24 PM
GusVenditto

Slaine,

I was trying to the general gist of things and didn't mean to imply you were hurling insults. But it does feel like the complaints and insults are just piling on. And when you use words like "propaganda" well, we're publishers, so we take the meaning of words literally and we are not in the business of propaganda.

You did raise the issue about cookies in a way that seems to assume that we have some nefarious plot under way by tracking your information. There are all sorts of technical hair-splitting debates we could have over what is saved on our servers when an HTTP transaction takes place and when vBulletin maintains a user's account. But in plain English, we don't a profile aside from what you maintain yourself here; we give you tools for creating and using an account here.

We let our advertisers set cookies when ads are displayed that are part of the ad delivery. There is no connection between your account/profile and those cookies.

Now I'm sure we could debate for hours whether that constitutes personal information monitoring. But I can assure you no one is profiling or doing any of the other things that would constitute tracking of personal information. It's a pretty serious issue to a lot of people, so I don't take it lightly.
Jan 5th, 2003, 05:53 AM
Slaine

Fair enough.

I will try to be less 'confrontational' with my comments in future - but sometimes it is all too easy to be carried along by the mob attitude that exists here ;)

Personally I have no objection to the VBwire thingy at the top - It's less to download than the ads that we used to have - and as you have said it may give us more VB specific info we need. I couldn't even care less about the layout - it's not that ugly and ok so it takes up almost a full monitor but it's not that hard to scroll down.

I don't think it is fair to say I was suggesting any 'nefarious plot' I merely pointed out that it looked like tracking was taking place, and that I was going to try and find out what you were tracking.

Yes we could argue all year about what personal information is but while you may insist:

Quote:

But I can assure you no one is profiling or doing any of the other things that would constitute tracking of personal information.

You privacy policy contradicts this with the statement that Advertisers "can track personal information". If you are saying their is some abiguity in what I think is personal, what you think is personal and what the advertisers may think is personal then it might be a good idea for you to ask your advertisers to openly state exactly what information they are tracking so that this could be passed onto us. If there is no reason for us to be worried then there shouldn't be any reason why it can't be disclosed.

All I am really asking for is openness, what is so wrong with that?
Jan 5th, 2003, 05:18 PM
GusVenditto

I'm being as open as I possibly can.

We, at Jupitermedia, who run this site, do not use the personal information you enter in your account for any purpose, other than to keep your account running for your convenience. (By comparison, there are other sites on the Internet that may sell the personal information stored in a user's account; Yahoo, for example. will do that unless you know how to tell them they may not do that.)

Separately, when you browse at this site, adertisers send cookies to see if you got the ad. Advertisers may use those cookies to see whether you received other ads they sent you.

There is no connection between your account here and those cookies. An advertiser can not get at your account information. All they can do is set a cookie on your hard disk when you have downloaded an ad.

Does that help?