Is the Internet like Space? Like it will keep expanding and will never end?
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Is the Internet like Space? Like it will keep expanding and will never end?
What do you mean by exapnd?
It is a fact that the Universe is expanding (getting bigger). New Galaxy's are forming and Space is unlimited. Is space on the internet unlimited?
not really, the internet is a load of 1s and 0s, space is different.
there's no limit as such to the internet, it expands as more information goes on it and more computers are attatced to web servers. but is isn't space, it's information, the 2 things are too different to compare.
I think the internet is quite like space.
when you are in space, and you are not on a planet(website) where are you, just floating, doing nothing.
then your air supply runs out(inactivity) then you die(get booted off)
;)
and it does seem like the internet goes on forever.
there are litarlly millions of webpages out there....
oh, since where kind of talking about space...
how does the universe go on forever?
I mean what contains the universe?
is there anything that can contain the universe?
and the #1 question I want answered is.... <drum roll, brbrbrbrbbr>
how do we know so much stuff about space, like how do we know about black holes, how do we know that stars are made of plasma?
how do we know about phantom matter??
The universe is a borderless sphere that is wrapped around the outside of another sphere. Which means it is never ending. You can never visualize what the universe actually looks like because humans are incapable in thinking in 4 dimensions, we are limited to 3. To put it in programming terms:
Do
sphere1.width = infinite
sphere2.width = sphere1.width * infinite
sphere3.width = sphere2.width * infinite
'Do this for an infinite number of spheres.
loop
For more information please see "Hyperspace" by Michio Kaku or "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking (pronounced Stefen).
Quote:
Do
sphere1.width = infinite
sphere2.width = sphere1.width * infinite
sphere3.width = sphere2.width * infinite
'Do this for an infinite number of spheres.
loop
what do you mean by this, there are loads of different types of infinities, if you start with the only type of infinity that makes sense for a width then you get the same type of infinity at the end.
It simply means that there is no end to the universe. It simply goes on forever into infinity. The universe is a three-dimensional sphere which is wrapped around the outside of a four-dimesional sphere and so on.
hmm, doesn't make too much sense.
It's all very complicated, and impossible to even visualize. The human mind is not powerful enough to think in the way needed to visualize what it actually looks like. The books I named before can explain in more detail.
You cannot have this because infinity is infinity. There is no such thing as 2(infinity). or infinity / 2.Code:Do
sphere1.width = infinite
sphere2.width = sphere1.width * infinite
sphere3.width = sphere2.width * infinite
'Do this for an infinite number of spheres.
loop
Refer to the topic Infinitly Interesting for a debate about it.
They know a lot about Space because...Voyager I, which was set off course after Saturn went into the "outer space" and Voyager II which past Pluto in 1999 will explore the space far beyond.
I've heard that Voyager II has discovered two new planets that look like Saturn (http://www.discovery.com).
Both Voyager take pictures all over.
They do not come back exact pictures.
They come back in binary form (1010100101).
And the way they can tell how the Universe is expanding is through radio waves.
A short radio wave would look like this "M".
But when they hold their equipment up to space, it looks like "/\/\/". Spread out more.
And it keeps getting further and further apart.
We have yet to explore :). It is so big, alien life must exist. We cannot be the only ones in a never ending universe.
The Milky Way Galaxy, for example is huge.
It is a spiral galaxy. We are located on an end.
It consists of billions, maybe even trillions of stars and there is even beyond that..more galaxys.
Galaxys that are forming new areas.
And new galaxys being created. And what you may have heard, a black hole, if you go through it, you don't end up anywhere. It is so dense, the pressure will crush you.
Go here, you will see how much you weigh on other planets, our sun, a nebula (new galaxy formation), a white dwarf (after a Super Giant star explodes): http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/weight/
Black hole is not on there, but it is probably as dense as a Neutron Star.
Space/Astonomy is my favorite subject :).
I am sooo intelegant I am able to think in 4d :D
see, I am so intelegant that I can think in 4d, but all that thinking made me forgor how to spell intelegant.. :D
any one care to take an educated guess on what your IQ would have to be to think in 4d?
what 1k, 2k, 3k?
or maybe 174?
I hope its 174 :D
In the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd dimensions, we have up and down, left and right, and three-dimensional. What is the 4th dimension?
As long as we don't ran out of Ip's...Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Gates
Is the Internet like Space? Like it will keep expanding and will never end?
RG
You forgot one thing to mention on space.
Your "wrapped around a sphere" is trying to describe time/space bending so much it folds in on itself until it looks like a sphere in all 3 dimensions simultaneously.
That doesn't mean its "infinate". It means if you travel in the same direction you would eventually end up at the point you started from.
Imagine walking on the earth. Walking can be considered 2D because we can only go left/right and forward/backward. If we picked a direction and travelled we would eventually return to the point we started. The world is therefor described in 3D.
This would be the same of the universal model based on the bending of time and space however our "walking" is now in any of the 3 directions but we would still end up at our starting point but the "sphere" is now in 4D not 3.
Matthew
No the Internet is NOTHING like space.
Space continues to expand without any need nor requirement to communicate with the parts it is expanding away from.
The Internet on the other hand much ALWAYS remain connected with (although through intermediate points) every other point on that network.
Thus the difference is seen in the fact that the longer the distance the slower the connection on the internet meaning the "biggest" the internet can be is directly dependant on how fast we can transmit information between computers.
Don't forget... although we may "transmit" at the speed of light via electricity or optic fibre, the fact it is carried in a medium other than vaccum means it is degredated and requires boosting via "repeaters". We also must store not only the information in webpages but each computer connected to the internet needs to either HAVE or HAVE ACCESS TO a DSN (Domain Name Server). If we increase the number of sites out there by a factor of 100 it means we need 100 times the storage space in order to keep track of the different IP addresses (or ways of getting to computers that have them).
So there are limits :)
Space does not bend as a sphere. If it is infinit, than it cannot have a definet shape.Quote:
This would be the same of the universal model based on the bending of time and space however our "walking" is now
in any of the 3 directions but we would still end up at our starting point but the "sphere" is now in 4D not 3.
Megatron
You really don't understand gravity and Einstein do you :(
Let me give you a picture in 3D.
Imagine someone "rolling" a ball along the ground and that ball reaches a hole. The ball will "fall" into the hole because gravity is pushing down on it. Now if this hole is on the surface of the world at one end, a hole on the other end is going to do exactly the same thing...Code:Gravity
Ball-->* |
--------\ /-------- |
Hole--> \_/ V
"Gravity causes ALL things to FALL towards the centre"
Now what actually causes gravity to happen is "MASS". The MASS of the earth is what gives us 9.8 m/s2 or what we consider gravity. You know that it acts in ALL directions regardless of where I stand on the earth.
What Einstein theorized and what others have deduced is that gravity is a "hole in 3 dimensions". Imagine the flat ground in the above example being the fabric of space. A body of mass causes this fabric to BUCKLE, just like placing a large bowling ball on the ground would cause a dent. But it isn't flat... the BUCKLE is in ALL 3 dimensions at once.
So its like imagining a hole that no matter WHERE you look at it you always see the hole and you ALWAYS fall towards it
THIS is how time/space is "bent"... Of course you don't SEE the bending because it bends the light (photons) that hits your eyeballs, so everything looks straight.
Trust me Megatron... that IS the way it works.
I belive we already have run out of IP addresses or we will run out soon. MAC addresses will probably run out soon too. IP address are 32 bit so we can have 2 ^ 32 different IP addresses. I know that sounds like a lot but their are a lot of addresses being used and a lot wasted. Cisco has devoloped IP Version 6 I belive to be used on Internet 2. OF course that will be propietry to Cisco. Arent you all glad you have Cisco shares???
Is this the rate at which gravity falls?Quote:
9.8 m/s2
My class just went to the museum of natural history in New York City. They have the most powerful space simulating projector in the world. They said the universe is made up of 5 parts, well from our perspective, starting at earth...
1. Earth
2. The Solar System
3. Milkey Way Galaxy
4. Virgo Supercluster
5. Observable Universe
The observable universe is the whole universe viewed from far away, (it looks like a cloud almost) Is this very acurate?
As for the museum, I really recommend seeing that planetarium! It appears 3D, and boy! That was amazing, really made me feel really little. And I thought the CN Tower in Toronto was big!
Yes, i saw that 5 part universe on TV before. the show was about evolution of the Universe.
Here's something interesting. Picture the Sun as a dot with a diameter of 0.1mm. Now using that scale, the estimated size of the universe is the distance from Montreal to Winnipeg!!
Wow, that just made me feel really insignificant
Yes, it's a lot when you think about it. It boggles the mind to think in such vast measures.
They say 1000 Earth's can fit inside Jupiter. And I believe about 10 Jupiter's can fit inside the sun. The sun is huge. But our sun is only at it's mid-ages. If you compare it to a supergiant..now that's huge!
Did you all know, when you look up into the sky, your actually looking into the past. Stars could be billions of years old. Light travels at 300 000 KM/S. The time light travels in one year is 9.6 trillion km. It takes years for light to reach Earth. Our sun's light takes 8 minutes to reach Earth, so when we look up at our sun, its 8 minutes into the past we are looking at. Only if we could travel in space using light speed. But, this technology won't be around for this human generation. :(
Hopefully, we'll get to do something in space our life time. I'm sure you've all dreamed of going into space..even if it meant for a short time, just to see how it is. I know I want too. Floating, not weighing anything, that'd be cool :). Unless you become an astronaut. I think I'm going to either be a programmer or an astronomer. But let's not get into my life.
Looking into the past, it is an odd concept to grasp. But it is really interresting. My friends think Im nuts because I can stare at the stars or go a computer for hours.
Megatron
9.8 m/s^2 is the acceleration of gravity for EARTH only. Each body of mass has its own rate of gravity which is based on the actual MASS of the object.
All
Talking of looking into the passed... hasn't anyone ever wondered why if the universe is infinate (or even if it is finite but connected) that we don't see a WHITE sky filled with the light from every sun rather than a BLACK sky with a few stars?
The answer is simple. Photons
While they say 100 billion billion photons strike the surface of a pinhead in a single second on a sunny day... the whole reason we don't see a white sky is because at extremely large distances the photons from particular suns are going either side of us.
I will have to increase the scale in order to make it understandable but picture this :
Imagine 2 photons coming off the surface of the sun. They are going at 0.01 degrees difference between each other. This means that if you were only 500 m away from the sun BOTH photons would strike your eye allowing you to "see" it. Now imagine you are 5,000,000km away, possibly only ONE photon would strike your eye because the second one which is SLIGHTLY off from the first hits your cheek.
Now expand that again so that you are 5,000,000 light years away. BOTH photons miss you now because one went to one side of the earth and the other to the OTHER side of the earth. Effectively no matter WHERE we are we will never see the light from that star because at extreme distances the photons never reach us.
Take this a step further... and it brings an AMAZING feature.
Sailors navigate by the stars, they have "maps" which show what the skies look like and determine where they are in relation to those (ie some constellations can only be seen from the southern hemisphere and others from the northern)
But if we were in another Galaxy... lets say Proxima Centauri our closest neighbour, there could be photons which MISSED the Milky way that STRIKE Proxima and vice versa... This would mean that there would NOT be a common set of stars from both the Milky Way and Proxima... they would possibly be very different as a result of this effect.
So navigating through space by patterns in the stars wouldn't really be possible in distances between different galaxies.
In my science book, it says that in our solar system, the sun contains 99% matter and the other 1% is just everything around it that's contained in the solar system.
And in order to travel far distances in space, we cannot do that now because there simply isn't enough gas. Therefore, humans have to learn to capture and use fusion from the sun. With fusion, you could travel at light speeds. They are using energy from the sun...steam and certain other things. :)
But, referring back to the first paragraph, that's a lot of matter for one object! :p
The gravity of the sun is a few order of magnitudes greater than that of Earth. This means it can "squash" matter into very small spaces, hence it contains 99% of our solar systems total number of particles.Quote:
In my science book, it says that in our solar system, the sun contains 99% matter and the other 1% is just everything around it that's contained in the solar system.
But think about a black hole.. it contains the equivalent of --4-- of our Suns in a space no larget than a cubic centimetre. The Gravity is So high that even light cannot escape.
I don't think so. Even if we harness fusion there is always the problem of being able to contain the reaction. You are after all causing 2 particles to "FUSE" into a single particle. The amount of pressure and temperature required to do that is so high that you need some serious science to stop the WALLS of what you are fusing inside from doing the same thing...Quote:
And in order to travel far distances in space, we cannot do that now because there simply isn't enough gas. Therefore, humans have to learn to capture and use fusion from the sun. With fusion, you could travel at light speeds.
The higher the MASS of an object the more energy required to make it go faster (ie You can push your car but you cannot PUSH a truck). Something that had a fusion reactor inside it would probably weigh several thousand tonnes... to get that amount of MASS moving would be more than the amount of energy inside the fusion reactor in the first place
*sigh* I think its about time we stopped using the BRUTE FORCE approach. You only succeed when you find ways "around" the problem... not the problem itself.Quote:
They are using energy from the sun...steam and certain other things.
Enough to hold 9 planets and 20+ moons... and yet the Milky Way Galaxy holds onto it and pulls it around easily.Quote:
But, referring back to the first paragraph, that's a lot of matter for one object!
I am referring to two things here. My teacher said if we were able to, we could use fusion for a lot of things.Quote:
Even if we harness fusion there is always the problem of being able to contain the reaction. You are after all causing 2 particles to "FUSE" into a single particle. The amount of pressure and temperature required to do that is so high that you need some serious science to stop the WALLS of what you are fusing inside from doing the same thing...
And, haven't you ever seen Back to the Future? At the end, the Doc went 30 years into the future and came back with a flying car that ran on fusion :).
Now that'd be nice if we could get some technology like that.
You couldn't go back in time because you aren't really just leaping to another time. You are making your time slow down, to make the time around you go faster. So you don't just appear in a time. Time goes by so you can get there. So therefor you can't go back. Because time is always advancing. So unless we find a way to actually stop time going into the past is still science fiction.
Matthew, I think the car in question ran on fission, In fact it must have because at the begining Doc was staeling plutonium from terrorists to make his car go, and plutonium is used for fission, not fusion, if you fused 2 plutonium atoms you would get less energy than you started with.
In any case he got it running on steam in part III, the only reason they used the nuclear fission was to get the car up to the inconcievable speed of 88 miles per hour.
The Idea of Cold Fusion (allowing Fusion to take place at temperatures less than those of the Sun. Is Theoreticly possible, and could lead to some great things, but not time travel.
Steve
The Idea of Going back in time is again theoreticly possible through something called a worm hole, this would involve somehow bending spacetime back on itself untill there's a little tunnel back to a different Time, But as Stephen Hawkin Points out If time travel is possible why has nobody come back to visit?
If internet was like Space, then there will be a second when everything shrinks and keeps shrinking until it is gone, and all that happes in a millisecond!!!
Ah, one of these few questions that I can answer. The fourth dimension is time. One of the things that is different about this dimension is that it is constant at it's rate and it is what all the other dimensions are based upon. I have a whole crapload of stuff thought up in my head to explain this but I don't want to run the risk of overdoing it or flood someone's browser, so if you want to know more just say so.Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Gates
In the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd dimensions, we have up and down, left and right, and three-dimensional. What is the 4th dimension?
I'd quite like to hear it, by the sound of it you may not have taken Special Relitivity into account, but it could still be interesting.
Ok, so it isn't quite as large, but I had to shorten it a bit as I'm writing this from work and I'm a little given to hyperbole. Otherwise I'd also include some of the deranged theories that I've come up with after a long day of getting a high off caffeine and being up at 6 in the morning.:)
The first three dimensions are partially based on the fourth, but only in movement not in existence. If time were to freeze at this very second all of the first three would still exist, yet there would be no movement through them. From this simple fact (or something closely related) we were able to come up with rate.
Rate is determined by the speed at which an object's place in the first three dimensions changes between two points in time. These distances can be measured in several different ways, using systems such as the metric and standard. The times may also be different, but usually they are hours (unless you are an astronomer, where the main distance is a light year and the time is a second).
The reason I say that time's rate is constant is because according to Einstein's Theory of Relativity time is relative to the observer, and the observer observes time at a constant rate. Thus making time constant. I have no doubt that we will soon be able to more accurately study time and its properties later on, possibly even leading to travel between two points on this fourth dimension.
You cannot say that time is "constant" and then say that it is "relative to the observer". Thats a contradiction.
Now you can say that time is "constant to the person measuring it" because that agrees with the second statement.
If we take time as being "relative to the observer" then doesn't that mean as an absolute truth "time is NOT constant"???
As for Steven Hawkins asking why people haven't already come back from the future how do we know they haven't? Its our "present" and as such anything that happens is to us the first time it happened. If someone came back and told us then we would change the future and the person wouldn't have come back (possibly) so we end up in a paradox.
Either that or they have a temporal prime directive that says they aren't allowed to go back to "primative" timeperiods ;)
hi,
the way that space expands (are we sure that it is expanding ?) is similar to Fractals (the chaos theory) they are patterens that continue infinitley in infinite directions, (are you still with me ?), then this should really account for the fourth dimension, or in this case the I Dimension where I is Infinite, (hence the label, chaos theory)
Merlin ?
Yes, we are sure it's expanding, sort of.
Science believes that because the stars are becoming a bit more red-shifted (or was it blue?) they are moving farther apart. This coincides with the Big Bang theory. But I don't quite see how an already infinite expanse can expand. I can see the suns and galaxies moving farther apart, but to say that that means the entire UNIVERSE is expanding just doesn't make sense to me.
9.8m/s² is the acceleration due to gravity, g.
This value is, as stated, dependant on the mass of the planet, due to the formulae
F = G(m1)(m2)/r²
where G is the gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses (you and the planet) and r is the distance between the two centres of mass.
Since F = ma (Newton's Second Law),
a = F/m
(g = F/m)
So, a = Gm2/r² (since m = m1, they cancel)
or g = GM/r² (where M is the mass of the planet)
That's where the value of g comes from, although in actual fact it differs slightly depending on where you measure it - The earth is an oblaque spheroid, so r is greater at the equator than at the poles for instance.
A body will not accelerate at exactly the same rate as the value suggested by the formula, even if it's in a vacuum, because unless it is exactly on the axis of the earth's rotation then it will have a centripetal acceleration also.
I think I read somewhere once that if 14% of Jupiter's hydrogen was mined and made into fusion bombs, then, if a series of such bombs was dropped behind a spacecraft in such a way that the spacecraft was not damaged but was accelerated, then said craft could achieve a velocity of approximately 1/3 c. That's a lot of Jupiter though ;)
It is, according to relativity, not possible for any massive body to reach the speed of light, since that would require infinite kinetic energy. I should think that a fusion reactor would produce enough energy to achieve a significantly high velocity, the weight of the reactor could be easily counteracted. It would require much more energy to achieve higher velocities though.
The most viable fusion reactor I have seen is a torus, which contains the fuel gasses as plasma circulating around the torus, contained by strong electromagnets around the torus to keep the plasma away from the sides of the reactor. There are still problems at the moment. So far we even need fission bombs to get enough energy to start a fusion reaction in a hydrogen bomb, I'm not sure how they propose to inject enough energy in the first place to get the fusion reaction started.
[Edited by HarryW on 07-12-2000 at 01:13 PM]