Kedaman - Shall we continue...?

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Apr 17th, 2002, 04:22 AM
simonm

Kedaman - Shall we continue...?

Quote:

Consciousness is axiomatic, and thus a substance of reality, and within it you experience information, every single bit that tells you something about experiences, visions, ideas, dreams, things that you can comprehend. Now this is also axiomatic. You also feel that you are making decisions, and thus you create information. The information you create is persistent, it doesn't change, and Idea is an idea. You experience discovering of "new information" which means that there is information out there, which you weren't conscious about earlier, this we call unconscious information. You experience forgetting and recalling - This is information that travels between consciousness and unconsciousness, like you are pulling up a rope from water, or as interconnected information resembles a network, we can have the analogy of a fisher pulling up a net from the sea.

This all will explain what you haven't earlier been able to with mecanics: the connection between you and your observations - fundamentally. All your observations are links into an unconscious sea of information, and travelling the sea pulling up the net makes you discover new things. Mechanics will become part of the net, persistent information deep into the sea that is so automated because of lack of questioning of its purpose, the mechanics deep into the sea is locked heavily into position by the mass of unconscious information that is depending on it.

I promised I would come back to this point and now, I am ready...

I agree with what you ar saying up until this point: "You also feel that you are making decisions, and thus you create information."

I do not think that making decisions creates information. Making decisions can select and arrange information but not create it from scratch (or at least, I don't see how).

I would also distinguish between information that is in you sub-consiousness and information that has never entered your consiousness (and is therefore not in your sub-consiousness either).

I believe that distinction is necessary to both explain the phenomenon of forgetting/recalling information and the phenomenon of discovering new information.
Apr 17th, 2002, 04:47 AM
InvisibleDuncan

Quote:

Originally posted by simonm
Kedaman - Shall we continue...?

I'm sure I just heard an entire world cry out in terror... :rolleyes:
Apr 17th, 2002, 05:09 AM
beachbum

When someone finally cracks and violently kills them both, we'll be able to point at the TV news and say "hey, I knew those guys" :D
Apr 17th, 2002, 05:39 AM
simonm

Quote:

When someone finally cracks and violently kills them both...

They'll have to find us first...
Apr 17th, 2002, 05:41 AM
beachbum

They'd probably start in Devon, England and Helsinki, Finland... :eek: :p ... but also remember that they will have a huge network !!
Apr 17th, 2002, 05:46 AM
simonm

Ah, but in reality, I look like an average person. They won't realise what sort of insanity lies under the surface just by looking at me.

Anyway, how do you know we are, where we say we are? We could both be hiding out in deep dark caves somewhere in Afghanistan...
Apr 17th, 2002, 07:59 AM
simonm

Hmmm...Maybe Kedaman doesn't want to play anymore...:(
Apr 17th, 2002, 08:01 AM
Bonker Gudd

Never mind, there's always The Golden Chair ;)
Apr 17th, 2002, 09:14 AM
kedaman

Simon
I don't actually know what to say, I might become a believer you know :eek:
a dumb stupid simple realist :(
Apr 17th, 2002, 09:23 AM
simonm

Kedaman
Well, how do I actually create information with a decision?

Surely, we just manipulate, disassemble and reassemble information when we think and make decisions.

Some people say that the human mind is not capable of original thought. Do you agree with this?
Apr 17th, 2002, 09:41 AM
kedaman

Simon
Ok, I will continue, but I dont' know for how long.

Information is permanent, two pieces of informations aren't equal, or even a bit different, they're absolutely unique with their own meaning, to change information would be to destroy the old information and create new. When you think you take certain premisses and perform a large quantity of reductions to, obtain a new pieces of information. This is more or less creativity.
Apr 17th, 2002, 09:47 AM
simonm

Kedaman

I sense you are growing weary of this discussion?

Quote:

to change information would be to destroy the old information and create new.

Why is it being destroyed? Why can't a new concept be arrived at by combining two pieces of information (and not destroying them)? Now we have a creative process that generates new concepts but does not actually create information, merely combines.

The two origninal pieces of information are not destroyed as they can be used again individually.

Can information be created without destroying old information?
Apr 19th, 2002, 12:38 AM
kedaman

Simon
The part of destruction isn't essential, you said change, and I had to illustrate what that would mean, what is essential is that if you decide something then its the creation of information, abandoning might be destruction.
Apr 19th, 2002, 01:00 AM
cafeenman

Quote:

Originally posted by beachbum
When someone finally cracks and violently kills them both, we'll be able to point at the TV news and say "hey, I knew those guys" :D

I'll bring candles for everyone so we can be on CNN.
Apr 24th, 2002, 02:16 AM
beachbum

1 Attachment(s)

:D :D :D

Just had to dig up this thread after seeing today's Dilbert :D

http://www.vbforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=955157
Apr 24th, 2002, 02:24 AM
DragonFly

:D:D:D:D:D
Apr 24th, 2002, 02:28 AM
beachbum

lol I am still laughing .. that comic hit the nail on the head and even made a perfect C sharp :D :D

Hey DF, where has your dad gone.... oops, forgot... where's your hubby... gone? :p Havent seen him 'round in a while... :eek: Is that a receipt for a shovel and soil compactor? :eek:
Apr 24th, 2002, 02:36 AM
DragonFly

Quote:

Originally posted by beachbum
lol I am still laughing .. that comic hit the nail on the head and even made a perfect C sharp :D :D

Hey DF, where has your dad gone.... oops, forgot... where's your hubby... gone? :p Havent seen him 'round in a while... :eek: Is that a receipt for a shovel and soil compactor? :eek:

:D:D:D:D Oh yeah.. me too

And Jello has been pretty busy with work lately, and when he's on line it's usually at TT.

But if I was going to do him in, I would probably use a less demanding method of disposal. Wouldn't want to make a mess
of the petunia bed;)
Apr 24th, 2002, 02:39 AM
beachbum

Yeah but think of all the nutrients that the petunias could absorb.... hmmmm I know plants like potassium and such but how do they react to pure alcohol?? :D

Well, tell him that I miss his gentle and beautifully poetic posts :eek:
Apr 24th, 2002, 02:43 AM
cafeenman

This post should be in a frame with links so that those of us who are nosy, but have no clue what you're talking about, can click appropriate links to provide some insight into what's going on because I'm sure it's pretty interesting.

on the other hand, I could just mind my own business and not worry about it.

Or I could not mind my own business and not have a clue. I like that choice. :)
Apr 24th, 2002, 02:44 AM
DragonFly

Quote:

Originally posted by beachbum
Yeah but think of all the nutrients that the petunias could absorb.... hmmmm I know plants like potassium and such but how do they react to pure alcohol?? :D

Well, tell him that I miss his gentle and beautifully poetic posts :eek:

:D:D:D:DHeeeheee.. yes I will do.. but of course you could always tell him yourself;)
Apr 24th, 2002, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by beachbum
Yeah but think of all the nutrients that the petunias could absorb.... hmmmm I know plants like potassium and such but how do they react to pure alcohol?? :D

Well, tell him that I miss his gentle and beautifully poetic posts :eek:

Blow it out your bum, where's me beer:D
Apr 24th, 2002, 04:44 AM
beachbum

:p That must be some of that high brow non rhyming poetry stuff for the capitalist pig dog intelligensia :D
Apr 24th, 2002, 04:46 AM

Hey it worked during Philosophy 101, "We rip the tabs off tinnies therefore we are":D
Apr 24th, 2002, 04:58 AM
beachbum

Philosophy 101 ... that is where u studied Freud, your mother and farm animals? :eek: explains a lot :D
Apr 24th, 2002, 05:00 AM

Yeap got to know a whole lot about navel gazing as well ... nothing wrong with the odd merino either, as long as full consent is involved.....