Major Terror Plot to Blow Up Aircraft

[rory]

A plot to blow up planes in mid-flight from Britain to the US has been disrupted, UK police have said.

"It is thought the plan was to detonate explosive devices smuggled on aircraft in hand luggage."

"This would have surpassed 9/11"

"Police have arrested about 18 people in the London area after an anti-terrorist operation lasting several months. "

"Britain's Home Secretary John Reid said the alleged plot was significant and that terrorists aimed to bring down a number of aircraft through mid-flight explosions, causing a considerable loss of life."

"Passengers will not be allowed to take any hand luggage on to any flights in the UK, the department said."

"Only the barest essentials - including passports and wallets - will be allowed to be carried on board in transparent plastic bags. "

"David Learmount from Flight International Magazine said he expected passengers to be searched much more carefully."

"He added: 'This is the first time this measure has actually been taken. Certainly I've never seen hand luggage banned.' "

SIDENOTE: The US is following suit on this and all hand luggage on US Flights will be banned for now. Also all arrested were British Muslims, and Police are still looking for 2 persons.

Terrorist Plots were planned for as much as 6 flights outgoing to the US from London, Glascow, Birmingham, and Machester. They involved Possible Liquid Explosives and British Persons of Pakistani Origin. 2 Terrorists are still at large hence the additional security measures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe...ror/index.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14278216/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,207682,00.html

[mendhak]

But what about people carrying laptops?

[rory]

no laptops /./.

only things that fit in a clear plastic bag ..

For the UK anyway .. the US .. not sure ..

21 people in custody now so its going to change.

[RobDog888]

Once this blows over they wll let people carry bags on board again but with much stricter searching.

They get all paranoid for a while and then they open the floodgates and things like this happen again.

[rory]

Yep thats true .. a night club here (most popular gangsta club in the country) where i handle the surveillance, searches people with metal detectors and also searches their shoes ... but recently one particular criminal managed to get through as the security failed to search one of the shoes and during a fight that he instigated he stabbed an off duty police and a security with a knife that had been smuggled in (the security fell down and had kidney failure as a result due to a puncture) .. there was also always the chance that the knife could have been thrown over the wall during the daytime but in this case with the video it was obvious, as one shoe was not searched.

The Messed up thing is they bought a walk through metal detector loaded with features, but had not installed it as yet!

[RobDog888]

They will probably wait until another stabbing happens before the y make a point to install it

[mendhak]

But if I put a laptop in my luggage, it'll get crushed. And I won't have any source of entertainment, the big smelly people that inadvertently sit next to me on flights will initiate a... *gasp* conversation!!!

[rory]

right .. though there hasnt been another stabbing since then (just a few weeks now), but there certainly have been alot of fights and other incidents which had to be passed onto the cops .. i've lost count of the fights i've had to burn on a CD for the cops now, but the stabbing murder video is still like yesterday.

[mendhak]

You people don't realize the gravity of the situation. MY laptop is in danger because of these terrorists!

The comfort of my flights are now gone.

Woe is me.

[rory]

But if I put a laptop in my luggage, it'll get crushed. And I won't have any source of entertainment, the big smelly people that inadvertently sit next to me on flights will initiate a... *gasp* conversation!!!

AIRLINE CONVO 101 W/ MENDHAK:

Hey buddy what's your name ..?

mendhak

Where yah from dude?

Ulaan Baator, GooGoo

What do you do for a living?

I'm a wine spitter

Cool



yep i tink we need the laptop ..

[rory]

The comfort of my flights are now gone.

flights and confort dont mix ..

[mendhak]

They do when you're as rich as me.

[rory]

oh well dont be shy and spread the wealth
im tired of hotdogs and hot patties

[FishGuy]

Rory - I cant find anywhere in the British Press that says the flights to be targeted were bound for the US.

[rory]

Rory - I cant find anywhere in the British Press that says the flights to be targeted were bound for the US.

You serious ..?? See the links i posted .. its also all over the US news, as well as BBC International and Sky News (we get those here in the Bahamas), Scotland yard also gave a statement recently regarding all this which specifically mentioned they were US bound.. they are still searching for some 30 terrorists still at large now .. supposed to be somewhere in the area of 50 of them and maybe as much as 20 planes.

In fact BBC just said that it was American, Continental, and United Airlines that were targetted. They just also said it might have been like 3 planes now, 3 later, etc, parhaps 9 in total, will have to wait and see.

The brits said it is at the highest security level since WW2!

[FishGuy]

Yeah sorry I seen it now.

[yrwyddfa]

Story so far . . .

21 people, of British origin, have been arrested in connection with planning a terrorist operation involving 'waves' of simultaneous attacks on mutliple aircraft as they leave British airports bound for the US.

MI5 has put British readiness to 'critical' which, according to their website, means 'an attack is imminent' The length of time implied by imminent is undefined, but it is considered unlikely that today was meant to be the day.

Passengers are now no longer permitted to carry any hand luggage on any flights, and are not allowed to carry liquids of any kind unless of a proven medical need. This is consistent with the current alleged theory that multiple terrorists would have boarded plans and combine liquid materials to create a substance (currently unknown) that has effective explosive properties.

[FunkyDexter]

The bizzarre thing about the hand-luggage rule is that it only applies to outbound flights. I guess that's to do with with the fact that it can only be enforced at the point of boarding but it makes it pretty inneffective as a security measure.

[FishGuy]

Well it's because the threat is from within to the rest of the world (mainly to US targets) not from people coming in to England. i.e we are the country on Critical Alert, we cant really force every country in the world with outbound flights to UK to step up to the same state (at much cost and inconvinence).

Remember the more disruption they cause (particularly with economical consequences) the more they have succeeded even with a failed attempt.

[nemaroller]

Come on England - get control over your Muslim terrorists would ya?

[FunkyDexter]

@FishGuy. Yeah, I know we can't get other countries to enforce it but my my point was that as long as flights from the US aren't included, or more importantly you can't stop a guy hopping onto a plane to Paris, grabbing the kit he needs and then flying onto the US, then it's going to be pretty inneffective as a measure.

What's really worrying me is that the the extra measures are causing so much chaos at the airports that we're now talking about only applying them to people who like they might be Islamic terrorists. Since Islam is a religious rather than a racial group I take it that actually means 'looks a bit Arabic'. I don't think this would be a very good idea and it's exactly the sort of thinking that led to Menezes.

[mendhak]

What's Menezes?

[FishGuy]

Yes but a white woman with her husband and two kids going to Spain for two week really doesnt need to be searched and forced to drink here childs milk, it's a pointless over the top reaction. Where as Mr Mahmood with a one way ticket to New York is obviously a higher risk.

I see no reason why we shouldnt be able to discriminate in that way.

[sevenhalo]

Just because we don't make a formal policy out of it, doesn't mean we don't do it. It's all about PR.

[FunkyDexter]

What's Menezes?

The Brazilian guy who was shot in error.

The problem with discriminatory searching is two fold:-
1. It's bound to entrench the feelings of alienation that seem to be leading to muslims becoming radicalised in the first place. You're basically sending a message to anyone you do stop that 'You look like a terrorist'. While this may be logically acceptable to them it unlikely to be emotionally acceptable.

2. It won't work. As soon as you lay out the profile, any group intending to carry out an attack will simply make sure they don't meet it. What would the profile be? You can't base it on racial lines because Muslims come from just about every racial group: Arabian, Pakistani, African, White, even Oriental. And there are radicalised people amongst all races - it's just most prevalent amonst Arabs.

[rory]

The Brazilian guy who was shot in error.

The problem with discriminatory searching is two fold:-
1. It's bound to entrench the feelings of alienation that seem to be leading to muslims becoming radicalised in the first place. You're basically sending a message to anyone you do stop that 'You look like a terrorist'. While this may be logically acceptable to them it unlikely to be emotionally acceptable.

2. It won't work. As soon as you lay out the profile, any group intending to carry out an attack will simply make sure they don't meet it. What would the profile be? You can't base it on racial lines because Muslims come from just about every racial group: Arabian, Pakistani, African, White, even Oriental. And there are radicalised people amongst all races - it's just most prevalent amonst Arabs.

im caucasian and when i goto the US they pull me aside and search everything ... everything .. because i have a Bahamian Passport. But that doesnt make me angry, i just wish they'd do it to everyone else.. in other words those other 20 people going through without being searched might actually have something that could bring the plane down ..

[FishGuy]

im caucasian and when i goto the US they pull me aside and search everything ... everything ..

You mean you get the rubber glove treatment?

[capsulecorpjx]

But if I put a laptop in my luggage, it'll get crushed. And I won't have any source of entertainment, the big smelly people that inadvertently sit next to me on flights will initiate a... *gasp* conversation!!!

Its called a book. We'll have to get used to those on flights now.

[rory]

You mean you get the rubber glove treatment?

well yeah .. but they dont go near my butt /..

[zaza]

The Brazilian guy who was shot in error.

The problem with discriminatory searching is two fold:-
1. It's bound to entrench the feelings of alienation that seem to be leading to muslims becoming radicalised in the first place. You're basically sending a message to anyone you do stop that 'You look like a terrorist'. While this may be logically acceptable to them it unlikely to be emotionally acceptable.

2. It won't work. As soon as you lay out the profile, any group intending to carry out an attack will simply make sure they don't meet it. What would the profile be? You can't base it on racial lines because Muslims come from just about every racial group: Arabian, Pakistani, African, White, even Oriental. And there are radicalised people amongst all races - it's just most prevalent amonst Arabs.

But the trouble with indiscriminate searching is that a lot of those who are inconvenienced, even for a short length of time, might also start thinking "It's those Muslims who caused this" and that also leads to alienation. Ultimately, we need a bit more tolerance from all sides, a bit more acceptance from all sides that these people are not speaking for their fellows, despite what they would claim, and a bit less hyping up by the media in an attempt to generate some news.

It is a fact that it is less easy for these nuisances to use the white middle class as their suicide bombers. There can be no disputing this. I agree that they may try to change their tactics, but that's no reason not to force them to do it. It is not about finding Muslims, it is about finding terrorists or, as I prefer to call them because it is less important-sounding, criminals.
If terrorists are brown-skinned men travelling alone, then with finite time and resources why not concentrate your efforts there? If terrorists are white men with Irish passports and accents (remember the 1980s?) then why not concentrate your efforts there? It is high time people of all races, religions and nationalities remembered that these guys are a threat to all of us, and that we all pull together in trying to sort the problem out. Their attempts are based along the old lines of Divide and Conquer, and so far they are doing a good job of that.

[mendhak]

I believe it is now alright to bring snakes on a plane.

[visualAd]

I believe it is now alright to bring snakes on a plane.

[Shaggy Hiker]

But the trouble with indiscriminate searching is that a lot of those who are inconvenienced, even for a short length of time, might also start thinking "It's those Muslims who caused this" and that also leads to alienation. Ultimately, we need a bit more tolerance from all sides, a bit more acceptance from all sides that these people are not speaking for their fellows, despite what they would claim, and a bit less hyping up by the media in an attempt to generate some news.

It is a fact that it is less easy for these nuisances to use the white middle class as their suicide bombers. There can be no disputing this. I agree that they may try to change their tactics, but that's no reason not to force them to do it. It is not about finding Muslims, it is about finding terrorists or, as I prefer to call them because it is less important-sounding, criminals.
If terrorists are brown-skinned men travelling alone, then with finite time and resources why not concentrate your efforts there? If terrorists are white men with Irish passports and accents (remember the 1980s?) then why not concentrate your efforts there? It is high time people of all races, religions and nationalities remembered that these guys are a threat to all of us, and that we all pull together in trying to sort the problem out. Their attempts are based along the old lines of Divide and Conquer, and so far they are doing a good job of that.

I think we need more advertising!!

After all, 9/11 put these folks on the map for us. White guys did the bombings over here before them, but do they get any credit? NO! Now, if you aren't arabic looking, you just can't make it as a credible threat. Forget McVeigh, forget Rudolph, forget Ted K. (not the Kennedys, they are a predictable threat), heck, you can even forget that badly washed shoe bomber. Oh, and forget those kids in Colorado, too, since they had bombs, but mostly used guns.

Islamic terrorists are simply the flavor of the day, sort of like PlayStation versus X box. Arari once ruled the TV's, but whatever happened to them? Then Nintendo owned the shop, and now they are an also ran. Islamic bombers aren't the only ones, they are just the chic sheiks of the moment, and everybodies gunning for them. Eventually we'll knock them off, and our own home grown fundamentalists/right wing nuts/ or even ecoterrorists will be able to dominate the American market once again. Then we will be able to search all the white folks bording the planes without this annoying argument about whether or not it is fair.

When it comes to terror, like other things, you should buy American. The lives you end could be your own. White guys managed to kill more Americans in America through bombing than any other group until those 9/11 turkeys pulled one big publicity stunt. Forget that folks, it was just one big showy event, they clearly can't deliver yearly like we can. They're just upstarts with no legs. Home grown terrorist nut jobs can be there for you year after year, but they don't have the budgets to add all the glitz of a 9/11. McVeigh couldn't even afford to fly, so he had to use a truck, and Ted had to resort to mailing his bombs, but they got the job done, you can't deny it.

To sum it up with a serious note: The only characterization that is fairly safe is that the terrorists that have hit this country have been male. The majority of them have been white guys, and the deadliest single attack has been arabic, but the next two or three were all undeniably caucasian.

[zaza]

I don't dispute that there have been a large number of home-grown bombers of varying shapes and sizes, but nevertheless there is a particular theme running through the various groups who are at present trying to blow up planes. Unwashed Richard Reid has been the only exception.

When a guy with a sniper rifle was driving around shooting at civilians (remember that?), did the police stop every pickup truck, every artic, every family saloon in an attempt to catch the guy? No, they got sightings and narrowed down their search. Perhaps this principle should be different when we're talking about human beings rather than models of car?

Perhaps if we try to avoid our misconceptions that religious hatred / racial hatred / gender-related hatred etc must be a part of it, and just accept that it's about police catching crooks, then we might start getting somewhere.

[Shaggy Hiker]

They narrowed down their search to a white van....which turned out to be wrong, and they ended up largely catching the guys by accident.

The underlying thread through both sets of terrorists is that they were male. That would be the direction to narrow. Planes do seem to be an arabic tool of choice, but that's only if you look at 9/11 and the recent plot. If you include the first WTC bombing, the Madrid bombing, and the London bombing, the picture is considerably more fuzzy. Two for planes, two for trains, (and if you include McVeigh), two for automobiles. Planes, Trains, and Automobiles!!! Why....you could almost make a movie out of it.

[FunkyDexter]

It seems like talking Arabic and having a beard is now a crime. If not in the eyes of the officials (yet) at least in the eyes of the public. This is a sad day.
Link

No, they got sightings and narrowed down their search. Perhaps this principle should be different when we're talking about human beings rather than models of car?

Don't know, but it should certainly be different when you are trying to narrow down to an entire ethnic group you think might be murderous rather than a specific individual who already has been.

[chocoloco]

It seems like talking Arabic and having a beard is now a crime. If not in the eyes of the officials (yet) at least in the eyes of the public. This is a sad day.
Link

I don't mean to be mean here, but can you really blame people for this behaviour when a large (almost all) part of terrorists involved in bombings come from that ethnicity/countries. Its sad but inevitable.

[demotivater]

I don't mean to be mean here, but can you really blame people for this behaviour when a large (almost all) part of terrorists involved in bombings come from that ethnicity/countries. Its sad but inevitable.

I agree. Time to pull your PC heads out of the sand. If some feelings are hurt, tough luck.

[chocoloco]

There really is no way to make airlines security fullproof (unless you start doing strip searches and allow almost nothing to carry in aircraft) ........ People are always going to look at these guys with suspicious eyes. Hell, even if I was there, I probably would not have reacted the way some people did, but I'd by lying if I said that a thought of insecurity did not cross my mind by just looking at those fellas.

[Valleysboy1978]

At the end of the day they will likely be muslim/islamic. They will undoubtedly be male (as they deem females as inferior). Therefore the likely threat is from muslim males. As already mentioned, if a few peoples feelings are hurt they can run home and cry to mommy, the police are just doing their job.

In the 1980s the threat was from unmarked white vans (IRA) and anyone driving said vehicle would be searched. The intelligence services just respond to the current threat. And the current threat are male muslim/islamic extremists.

Simple as...