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Thread: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

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    Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    The video is a speech by Singaporean Prime Minister Li Guangyao at the University of Hong Kong in 1992. Li Guangyao used Sri Lanka as an example to show that a democratic system will only make the society go backwards. Next to him sat Hong Kong Governor Patten.

    https://weibo.com/tv/v/J39O5bxj3?fid...07526176374802

    Note:
    The video subtitles are in Chinese, but Li Guangyao spoke in English.
    Last edited by dreammanor; May 22nd, 2020 at 07:12 PM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    The site's in Chinese (I assume Chinese?) and requires me to set up an account so, realistically, not going to watch it. I don't feel democracy makes a society go backward and I think it's arguably the most successful form of government in history. A bad democracy can make society go backwards but, for comparison, take a look at what bad autocracies can do. It ain't pretty.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    The site's in Chinese (I assume Chinese?) and requires me to set up an account so, realistically, not going to watch it. I don't feel democracy makes a society go backward and I think it's arguably the most successful form of government in history. A bad democracy can make society go backwards but, for comparison, take a look at what bad autocracies can do. It ain't pretty.
    Hi FunkyDexter,

    The video subtitles are in Chinese, but Li Guangyao spoke in English.

    I suggest you watch the video. Perhaps you could understand why Singapore is a very small country, but Li Guangyao is a world-renowned outstanding politician.

    In addition, Singapore and Li Guangyao are extremely pro-American and extremely anti-China in nature.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    I'm curious how the Western media refers to (names) the political systems of China, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and Vietnam. Is it uniformly called a dictatorship or centralized system or evil system? Or do they call the systems of these countries differently?

    In addition, how does the Western media call (name) the political systems of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Philippines and Russia?

    Of course I support democracy. But I think democracy should not have only one form and the most important thing is that democracy needs to conform to the national conditions of their country.
    Last edited by dreammanor; May 22nd, 2020 at 08:37 PM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    The names used depends on the speaker. Politicians will use whatever name speaks to their audience. For that reason, Cuba, China, North Korea, and Vietnam, were often lumped into "communist". This wasn't done because they were seen as the same, or seen as communist, it was just that the people being spoken to understood that word. Now, that's not saying that they understood that word correctly. They understood that word simplistically (communist = the enemy), and simplistic is all they wanted. Ideology didn't matter. What mattered is that a group could be defined by who it opposed, so giving them an enemy brought them closer together.

    In other words, they were called communist not because they were, or because the speaker cared whether or not they were, but because giving them that label increased in group cohesion by defining the out group, and that's VERY useful, even essential, for political leaders.

    Anybody who is more interested in political systems would come up with different descriptions for each of those countries, and they would be quite nuanced. No two of them are even all that similar, let alone the same.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    I'm curious how the Western media refers to (names) the political systems of China, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and Vietnam.
    It does vary somewhat according to whether we're getting on with them but it's rarely complimentary. Of the ones you specifically mention:-

    China - In the US I suspect the Trump supporting media are likely to use emotive terms such as "tyranical" and "evil" but the left/liberal press are more likely to stick to more academic terms like "totalitarian" and "autocratic". That's viewed the the prism of a European take on US media though, so is two steps removed. In Europe also we tend to stick academic rather than emotive terms. But don't make the mistake of thinking we aprove of your government. We don't. We think it's deeply flawed and, while it may be successfully driving China forward economically this has been at a massive cost in human rights. We all saw the footage in Tienamen Square and we saw the footage from Hong Kong - despite being 30 years apart they are remarkably similar (less tanks, more batons). So some good, but more bad than good.

    N Korea - you won't find a portrayal anywhere in the west that falls short of maniacal, megalomaniacal, and downright evil. Where the Chinese Government at least has the get out of having been economically successful for it's people, the Kims do not. They have brought nothing but misery to their people and have done so while displaying astonishing levels of vanity.

    Cuba, Venezuela and Vietnam - In Europe we barely mention them. Given geography and history I imagine they get more press in the US. I guess we kinda liked Castro, mostly because it was funny watching the all powerful US tie itself up in knots trying to get rid of him. There's something cool about watching David mooning Goliath, even if David is a flawed character himself.

    Iran, Saudi Arabia - Regreattably we tend to lump the whole of the Middle East into one, which we shouldn't. But, again, we are highly critical of their autocratic regimes. Through the From the 70s through to the 00s we tended to paint Iran as religious zealots and the Saudis as autocratic but not that bad. That perception is shifting radically, though, as Saudihuman rights abuses have gained more exposure. Wierdly, Trumps beligerence toward Iran has actually boght Iran some sympathy in the European media, but not much. It's like watching one bully pick on another bully... it's hard to feel symapthetic to either.

    Phillipnes doesn't get much of a mention since Emelda Marcos's shoe collection, and that was a long time ago.

    Russia - Right Wing, Totalitarian, War Mongering, Lieing, Despotic, Bordering on Fasctistic, Homophobic, Mysogenstic and far more dangerous to World Peace than any other regime in the world. The thing with Putin that makes him stand out from the rest of your list is that he's not only oppressive of his own people, he's also aggressivle expansionist. That makes him a unique threat that you have to go back about 90 years in history to match (though that was almost certainly worse... lets hope so anyway).

    I sort of feel like you were hoping to set up a comparison where someone might answer oh these guys are OK, it's those other despots that are bad. If that was your agenda, no dice. We believe that the people should always have a say in the running of their country. But most of us do also recognise that are degrees of "wrong" and can acknowedge those degrees.

    It may be interesting to note that, although I'm British, I grew up in Nigeria and was out there in 1983 and 1985 when there were military coups (there have been many since but I was actually present for these two). I recognise just how corrupt the democracy that preceded the 83 coup had become and how much damage it was doing to it's people. I also recognise that, under the ensuing military government, the lives of the people improved greatly in the short term. So I absolutely recognise that a democracy can do bad and an autocracy can do good. But you should also note that two separate family friends disappeared under that military government and that, although the initial coup was peaceful, the ensuing ones typically were not. They were violent and bloody. The problem with benign revolutionary autocracies are that they rarely want to relinquish power once their job is done.

    Anyway, I gave the first minute of the video a watch and I'm afraid it lost me when he made the argument "a good government is a government that considers it's self a trustee of the people, whether you're King, Chief of whatever. Not somebody in temporary charge and insecure and therefore out to settle an annuity and a nest egg for yourself". This is a deeply flawed line of reasoning for the following reasons:-
    1. Kings, Chiefs and Despot typically do not consider themselves trustees of the people. "It's for your own good and I'm doing it whether you like it or not" is not something many adults are comfortable hearing.
    2. There is a logical disconnect between the concepts of the insecurity of a democratic ruler and the desire to enrich themselves. And more importantly there is a demonstrable historical tendency of autocratic rulers to do exactly that to a far worse degree than democratic leaders have.

    At that point I switched off. My specious reasoning detector overloaded and went on the Fritz. There's a Corona virus briefing this evening and I need it in working order to trawl through the pile of crap my own government is likely to spew out.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; May 23rd, 2020 at 09:56 AM.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    I know that talking about politics in this difficult time is not a pleasant thing. But I saw that because of political factors, more COVID-19 patients died, and I felt extremely frustrated. This world has changed completely.

    In the past, I liked Hong Kong very much, but suddenly, Hong Kong changed into a Hong Kong that I didn't know at all, and Hong Kong can never return to its original appearance. I also like the United States very much, but in only three years, the United States has become another United States. Similarly, the United States can no longer restore its original appearance.

    In fact, China's political system is completely different from Cuba and North Korea. Vietnam has always been studying China's political system and management model, but Vietnam seems to be moving faster than China in the process of democratization, and I hope it will succeed. The Chinese also pursue democracy, but the Chinese hope to achieve high-quality democracy, not inferior democracy.

    IMO, China is a country between democracy and dictatorship, that is, a "centralized" country. Obviously, China is the most successful of all communist (or socialist) countries, which means that China's "centralization" is a high-quality "centralization". When the Chinese cannot achieve high-quality democracy in the short term, the Chinese prefer to choose high-quality "centralization" rather than inferior democracy like Taiwan. This is why American agents in China cannot successfully transform China into a democratic society.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Here is a comment I deleted on May 10:
    The new coronavirus epidemic is both a natural disaster and a man-made disaster. See a comment on a China forum:

    To drive on the road, a person must first obtain a driver's license;
    To open a restaurant, a person must first pass the sanitary inspection;
    To be a lawyer, a person must first obtain a lawyer's certificate;
    To be a doctor, a person must first obtain a doctorate and a doctor's certificate.

    A person without any political experience could be president of the United States. Is this a victory of democracy or a joke of democracy?

    Even more frightening is that this president without any political experience replaced almost all the heads of government departments with inexperienced people. What happened later proved that the execution ability of these inexperienced people was a disaster, not only a disaster for the United States, but a disaster for all mankind.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    because of political factors, more COVID-19 patients died
    I absolutely agree and, though it may have started in China, some Western Government deserve just as much, if not more, of the blame for that. And that includes the UK.

    Interesting fact: the Spanish Flu almost certainly originated in the US. So erm… stones in glass houses.

    A person without any political experience could be president of the United States. Is this a victory of democracy or a joke of democracy?
    That they could is a victory. That they did is more worrying.

    I think that highlights my problem with your position that China is reaching for a high quality democracy. It feels like underlying that is a belief that someone should only be able to govern if they're "qualified". But what does qualified mean? And who gets to set the standard? "We only want the best governors for you" is a pretty weak argument when deployed by the current governors and when the result is that those governors do not change. It's for this reason that I don't recognise the Chinese system as democratic, it merely wears democratic clothes.

    US (or any other) democracy isn't perfect but it's absolutely fundamental that everyone must have a chance to win. If a complete dingbat wins that's indicative of problem in the society rather than a problem in the system. Indeed, a great number of people in the US do not think a complete dingbat is governing. In my opinion they're wrong. But my opinion can carry no more or less weight than theirs.


    edit> Just wanted to add...
    I know that talking about politics in this difficult time is not a pleasant thing.
    It is, but it shouldn't be. I personally miss being able to talk politics with people who wouldn't either start slinging ad hominem attacks at each other or assume that every disagreement is a personal insult. On the whole I think you've handled yourself well and are an interesting guy to talk to. Particular given that you provide a unique position on this forum of actually being Chinese.

    So, please, do keep talking politics and don't feel you need to change your manner. And know that, even when I'm disagreeing with you, I'm still listening and considering the things you have to say.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; May 23rd, 2020 at 11:13 AM.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    The other is about press freedom. A few days ago, the New York Times interviewed Sima Nan, a Chinese political commentator, for more than 40 minutes. I listened to the entire recording of the interview. But when the New York Times published this interview report, it just excerpted one sentence "Fang Fang has become a political tool" from the interview text of more than 10,000 words. The true meaning of Sima Nan's conversation is completely blocked.

    I guess this is why the vast majority of Americans do not understand China at all ( or know nothing about China).
    The above is my comment in another thread. How can Western people learn facts and truth from these media with strong prejudice and guidance? If people's sources of information are based on falsehood, then their judgments and opinions have no meaning.

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    Last edited by dreammanor; Yesterday at 10:06 PM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Who is Truman?
    US president at the end of WW II.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    How can anyone learn? Would a 10,000 word report be meaningful? Would a 100 word summation be meaningful? There are plenty of people who can speak 10,000 words without saying anything. There are plenty who would say quite a bit in 10,000 words, but who can't get anybody to listen to even 100 of them.

    We all take in a tiny bit of the wealth of information that is available to us. Mostly, we use that to reinforce what we already believe. Occasionally, we use that information to change our minds, though usually only slowly. It's not really a question of the west. China certainly suppresses information it doesn't like, as well. The real point is that we can't fully understand because we will always approach any such question with a wealth of bias through which we filter that wealth of information.

    The only thing that can be done is to keep talking.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    There are plenty of people who can speak 10,000 words without saying anything
    I resemble that remark

    The only thing that can be done is to keep talking
    Yeah, that (although I'd add the suffix "and listening").

    It feels weird that dreammanor, in China, would be levelling a criticism at Western media bias. From our perspective the Chinese media is way more bias than the Western media. But that begs a question: if our press is more bias, would we know? I don't know if Mitchell and Web have reached the US and China but I'm reminded of this sketch.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    It feels weird that dreammanor, in China, would be levelling a criticism at Western media bias. From our perspective the Chinese media is way more bias than the Western media. But that begs a question: if our press is more bias, would we know? I don't know if Mitchell and Web have reached the US and China but I'm reminded of this sketch.
    Yeah, that struck me as very odd. Does he not know how bias and suppressed the media in China is? The group, Reporters Without Borders, consistently ranks China very low on their Press Freedom Index. Is everyone wrong about China? I also find it interesting that even with the restrictions he has to deal with that he believes he's knows our media and government situations so well that he is qualified to explain to us our problems. Everyone has the right to an opinion so I shouldn't let it bother me.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    I'm not sure he feels he knows us, he just feels that we don't know China. That's likely a pretty fair criticism. I would think I know it a bit (a very slight bit) better than average, since my sister spent a semester there, and has been back a few times for work. I also read quite a bit of history, current global events, and bits of ancient Chinese literature (they really do have some awesome stories and a history that is practically made for Hollywood).

    Still, what do I know? The smartest guy I work with created his own programming language, and writes in that, yet he's also a moon landing skeptic, and has repeated some QAnon stuff. Now, I don't believe any of that stuff, but it also shows that you don't have to be an idiot to believe those things...you just have to believe them. I don't. So, of the things I believe, how much is true? How much is sort of true?

    Having spent a life in science, I am well aware of incidents where I built up an understanding of some system only to find that I was totally wrong. At one point I built up a theory of how the population cycles in one ecosystem operated. There wasn't anything crazy about it, and I had a deep understanding of that system built up over three years. Then, in the fourth year, I got some data that showed I had been utterly wrong...because, as chance would have it, I had never been there in July, and something critical happened in July that altered the whole system in a fundamental way (salinity went from 0 to sea water for a week or two, then back to 0, thereby killing all the salt intolerant life). My model was well founded....and utterly wrong, just because I happened to never have been there when a brief, but critical, event happened.

    All models are wrong, some models are useful. All our understanding of our own society, as well as that of other people, is just a model.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Sh,

    If it's us not knowing China that is at the heart of this then I have no problem with that. All I know are the usual generalities. I have predicted that China will overtake the US as the dominant power in the world, my guess is 20 to 25 years. Other than that, I don't spend much time thinking about China.

    But these types of posts don't seem to be about our knowledge of China,

    The new coronavirus epidemic is both a natural disaster and a man-made disaster. See a comment on a China forum:

    To drive on the road, a person must first obtain a driver's license;
    To open a restaurant, a person must first pass the sanitary inspection;
    To be a lawyer, a person must first obtain a lawyer's certificate;
    To be a doctor, a person must first obtain a doctorate and a doctor's certificate.

    A person without any political experience could be president of the United States. Is this a victory of democracy or a joke of democracy?

    Even more frightening is that this president without any political experience replaced almost all the heads of government departments with inexperienced people. What happened later proved that the execution ability of these inexperienced people was a disaster, not only a disaster for the United States, but a disaster for all mankind.
    As if we're so ignorant that those thoughts have never crossed our mind. That's a bit of an over reaction but it's quick way to demonstrate my issue with some of these posts.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    As if we're so ignorant that those thoughts have never crossed our mind. That's a bit of an over reaction but it's quick way to demonstrate my issue with some of these posts.
    There are some logical errors in your words. As a programmer, you need to eliminate these logical errors yourself.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    There are some logical errors in your words. As a programmer, you need to eliminate these logical errors yourself.
    I'm retired, I don't have to worry about the quality of my code anymore. lol

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    To all:

    I don't have much time to continue discussing these topics. This forum has given me a lot of help, and I'm very grateful to the people here. The reason I posted this thread is because I want to remind everyone here:

    The United States is like a blindfolded giant, competing with China on the boxing ring. The Western media is the black cloth wrapped around the eyes of the US government and the American people.

    We, as the audience, continue to watch the game. While watching the game, maybe we should think about a question:

    Who is Truman in "The Truman Show"? Chinese or American?
    Last edited by dreammanor; Yesterday at 09:36 PM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Who is Truman in "The Truman Show"? Chinese or American?
    Both. That's the point. We all perceive the world through the prism of our information sources.

    The "media" (scare quotes because this is a blanket term that's hiding many nuances) is almost always either commercially driven or politically driven. Commercially driven media can often appear to be politically driven (Fox News) but only because playing to a particular political bias gives a ready audience and therefore a commercial advantage. But that's not the same as a State run media which is what you have in China. One is a tool of capitalism, with all the damaging baggage that comes with that, the other is invariably, a straight up tool of control.

    As I touched on earlier, it's entirely possible for that control to be benign. "We'll select your governors so you don't have to" is a perfectly valid message if the absolute best governors are being selected. But you'd have to be pretty na´ve to let the assertion stand unexamined, particularly when the people doing the selecting always arrive at the conclusion that they, themselves, are the absolute, best governors.

    One of the Ancient Greek democracies (it might have been the Thespians... they were always acting up) tried out a pretty interesting idea around this: They divided their society into a series of castes and said that the governing caste could not own any property and had to live off a moderate stipend so there was no motivation or means for them to acquire wealth. But I digress, mainly in the service of a pun.

    Is the media in the West bias and misleading? Yes. Nobody here denies it so you're really punching on an empty bag. We also recognise that a completely unfettered media (e.g. the internet) tends not to be a particularly good thing due to it's lack of editorial peer oversight. With that in mind we're comfortable accepting a degree of governmental oversight via mandated press standards but, importantly, we demand that those standards pertain to the veracity of the content, not the political leanings.

    There are some exceptions to this, e.g. our BBC, which has a duty of political balance written into it's charter. But the key word there is "balance". It is mandated to represent all sides, not just the governing party's.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    ... But that's not the same as a State run media which is what you have in China. One is a tool of capitalism, with all the damaging baggage that comes with that, the other is invariably, a straight up tool of control.
    Hi FunkyDexter, you don't know Chinese media at all. It could even be said that your understanding of the Chinese media is zero. I don't have time to talk about this topic now. If you have time, you could think about this question and search for some information on the Internet. Maybe you will understand why I say that.

    Last time, I told you a joke: China is the country with the richest medical resources and the country with the best medical system.

    Now, I'd like to tell you another joke: China is the most open country in the world, and it will be more open in the future.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Today at 04:50 AM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Hi FunkyDexter, you don't know Chinese media at all. It could even be said that your understanding of the Chinese media is zero.
    I find this funny and it isn't the first time you've done this; anytime you say something someone doesn't agree with they are blind and ignorant and you've got the inside scoop.

    Your mindset is very much along the lines those a conspiracy theorist follow and that we are just "sheeple" following blindly. I just did a quick Google and found this:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8727647.stm

    Particularly this line is the scary part that:

    Laws and regulations clearly prohibit the spread of information that contains content subverting state power, undermining national unity [or] infringing upon national honour and interests
    So they're controlling the message on the internet and blinding you to opposing views, but they don't control the media? Seems like quite a contradiction.


    This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_media_of_China

    also seems to indicate that the news/media is so filtered that it is unreliable for those in power that need to make decisions. Why is it important for them to be able to get all the facts, but not the Chinese people?

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Hi kfcSmitty,

    Some things I don't want to say too clearly, I'd like to leave a little suspense for you to think about. If the ending of "The Truman Show" is revealed too early, it will not be interesting. I will explain the two jokes I said above in the future. In fact, you only need to use reverse thinking to quickly draw conclusions. I think Westerners are stronger in logical reasoning than Orientals (especially Chinese).

    However, there is one thing you should be clear about: There are at least 50 million Chinese people who can directly read Western English media, but the number of Americans who can directly read Chinese media should be less than 1 million. This caused a huge amount of information inequality (asymmetry). Western media use this asymmetry in information to fabricate lies, and to create a "Truman Show". But they don't think they're lying, they just said they succeeded in controlling "the right to speak".
    Last edited by dreammanor; Today at 10:27 AM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Actually, it seems that 1% of Chinese speak english (10 million):

    1. https://www.chinahighlights.com/trav...s-in-china.htm
    2. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/m...ing-countries/

    But it looks like 3 million speak Chinese in the US: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press dash releases/2013/cb13-r90.html

    replace " dash " with "-" to get the URL.. the forum is being anal.

    So based on numbers, the US and China are equal.
    Last edited by kfcSmitty; Today at 10:14 AM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    Actually, it seems that 1% of Chinese speak english (10 million):

    1. https://www.chinahighlights.com/trav...s-in-china.htm
    2. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/m...ing-countries/

    But it looks like 3 million speak Chinese in the US: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press dash releases/2013/cb13-r90.html

    replace " dash " with "-" to get the URL.. the forum is being anal.

    So based on numbers, the US and China are equal.
    Excerpt from your recommended article:
    There are hundreds of millions of people in China studying English, but less than 1% of Mainland Chinese are conversational, according to some estimates.
    IMO, the number of Chinese who can serve as English teachers in the United States should exceed 1 million (at least 500,000).

    Note:
    Being able to read does not mean being able to conversat and speak.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Today at 10:51 AM.

  26. #26
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    IMO, the number of Chinese who can serve as English teachers in the United States should exceed 1 million (at least 500,000).

    Note:
    Being able to read does not mean being able to conversat and speak.
    There are millions of Canadians studying French right now, and millions of Americans studying Spanish, but the majority of them do not retain anything after they're done taking the classes they are forced to take.

    You can't compare students forced into these classses to people actually competent enough to read/understand the other language.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    OK, we do not count Chinese people who are learning English in their spare time or Chinese people who do not have a university/college education. We only count two types of people:

    (1) Most university/college students need to learn English from the first grade of elementary school (some areas allow learning English from the third grade of elementary school). When they graduate from university/college, they need to learn English for at least 12 years.

    (2) Chinese students studying in the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    Now I go to search some information.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Data are as follows:

    The number of university/college students in China is 40.02 million in 2019. IMO, at least 25% of these university/college students have excellent English, and 25% have ordinary English (can read, but cannot speak fluently).

    In addition, the number of Chinese citizens going abroad in 2019 is 190 million, of which 155 million are tourists abroad (excluding Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan)
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    Last edited by dreammanor; Today at 12:57 PM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    It doesn't matter if the entire country spoke fluent English. The only information they will ever know is controlled by the Government. If you don't believe that, then you should be the one doing some Google searches to find out what everyone else knows, China's media and internet are controlled by the Government. But of coarse the Government controls Google in China.

    Look, if your happy and proud of your country then that's good but there's no need for you to go around pointing out the flaws you see in our governments. Are you really so arrogant that you think we don't know these things and that you need to explain them to us?

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Uhhh....Is this argument relevant to anything?

    What it mostly goes to show is that English is becoming the indispensable language. That has been an argument for a long time, but at this point, it's officially the international language of distress, quickly becoming the international language of business, the international language of the internet, and possibly becoming the common language of the EU, much to the dismay of several members.

    In the end, we all want to communicate. Why we seem to be settling on a language as occasionally perverse as English is mostly a historic accident. It seems like a better planned language, like Korean or Esperanto, would make more sense, but the race goes not always to the swift...
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    I think the point of the argument was that Chinese people are more informed because they speak english and chinese, and thus are keeping up to date with both western and eastern information.

    He also makes the assumption that every english speaking/reading Chinese actively follows western media.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Are you really so arrogant that you think we don't know these things and that you need to explain them to us?
    Could you tell a few things about America that you know and I don't?

    If you want, you can live in "The Truman Show" all your life.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Today at 01:23 PM.

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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    I don't know what you do and do not know. So, to tell you something about America that I know and you likely don't, I'd want to start with something totally out there: We have the VAST majority of species of crayfish in the world. Some 360 out of the world's total of about 500 species originated in the US, though they have been introduced to other countries.

    So, tell me something about China that I don't know.
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    Re: Will the democratic system only make the society go backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I don't know what you do and do not know. So, to tell you something about America that I know and you likely don't, I'd want to start with something totally out there: We have the VAST majority of species of crayfish in the world. Some 360 out of the world's total of about 500 species originated in the US, though they have been introduced to other countries.

    So, tell me something about China that I don't know.
    I know that little-crayfish originated in the United States, but I don't know that the United States has the vast majority of crayfish in the world. Thank you for telling me very interesting knowledge.

    Twenty years ago, my wife's aunt in Hubei Province asked someone to bring us a pot of crayfish seasoned with peppercorns(hua-jiao). It's almost one of the most delicious foods I have ever eaten, far more than big lobster. Perhaps for this reason, I must tell you something about China now:

    Little-crayfish is one of the most popular delicacies in China, especially the most famous little-crayfish in Hubei Province, which is the largest little-crayfish breeding base in China.

    Note: Don't tell my knowledge to wes4dbt, because he scolds me for being arrogant.

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    Sorry, that was just a joke. I'll take the time to tell you something about the Chinese media. In fact, I'm always very busy. Although I can read English easily, writing English still takes me a lot of time. I'll intermittently introduce some Chinese knowledge to you and others interested in China. You should know that I know more about China than my programming knowledge.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Today at 07:26 PM.

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