End of VB

[Thierry69]

This is strange, I haven't seen any post on this :
https://www.thurrott.com/dev/232268/...f-visual-basic

that will be a very bad news

[Krool]

Your post is misleading. It talks about freezing VB.NET but still do bugfixes/support for it.
About VB6 was nothing mentioned.

[Thierry69]

Krool, I know, but quite a lot here (including myself) were thinkink to migrate to VB.net.
It means a complete rewrite now

[DataMiser]

I don't see it as a big deal. Most here in this section of the forum think VB ended 20 years ago with VB6.

[baka]

its only about .net. and im sure it will affect .net framework
vb6 is totally different, it uses a bunch of .dll that you could easily install if its missing
as long windows support 32 bits, vb6 will work.
and when windows will be 64 bits only, we will find a solution to compile to 64 bits.

VB6 FOREVER!

[jdc2000]

Microsoft: We won't evolve Visual Basic programming language but we'll open it to .NET 5

https://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...n-it-to-net-5/

[Thierry69]

Sure VB6 Forever, I totally agree.
But, I started my latest project and already sell, in VB.NET (a great outlook addin) and alread a lot of licence sold.
I will probably convert it to C# (it is not a big deal. I estimate arround 1 week of work)

[baka]

but it says .net 5, can't u update to .net 5 or its not compatible?

[Thierry69]

Sure VB6 Forever, I totally agree.
But, I started my latest project and already sell, in VB.NET (a great outlook addin) and alread a lot of licence sold.
I will probably convert it to C# (it is not a big deal. I estimate arround 1 week of work)

[dreammanor]

Seeing the picture of VB4.0 in the link in post #1, my heart is full of good memories. At that time, how pleasant it was to develop with VB. Modern and high income.

[Elroy]

To my eyes, this is Microsoft going down the same path as Boeing. For many decades, Boeing was run and managed by engineers, and made some of the finest planes the world has ever known. However, a couple of decades ago, with the McDonnell Douglas merger, a bunch of bean-counters got control of the company and completely wrecked it, taking short-cuts wherever they could, and moving the culture rich headquarters from Seattle to Chicago. And now, we see where they've wound up: 737-MAXs that can't fly, cracks all over in the regular 737s, software that won't work in their $6 billion Starliner capsule (almost twice as much as they gave Elon Musk to build the Dragon capsule), and cover-ups surrounding it all.

It truly seems that Microsoft is heading down the same path ... run by bean-counters who can't understand the culture that brought them to where they are, and are making mis-steps at every possible opportunity. Next thing we'll hear is that they're moving their headquarters to Chicago.

And hey, I actually like Chicago, but it's not the engineering and software epicenter of this country.

[fafalone]

Article just seems to be about no longer doing feature updates for VB.NET after .NET V5... I didn't see any mention of VB6 or even VBA?

Maybe if they're no longer really concerned with the competition, they could consider open-sourcing VB6??

Ah one can dream. Just leave the licensed controls as the same compiled-only OCX's , but open source the VB6 IDE and compiler? Come on Microsoft! Imagine a VB6 that could address 64-bit variables... with unsigned types... oh god im soo close..

[DataMiser]

Microsoft has definitely changed a lot since Bill Gates was running the show.

[el84]

To my eyes, this is Microsoft going down the same path as Boeing. For many decades, Boeing was run and managed by engineers, and made some of the finest planes the world has ever known. However, a couple of decades ago...

It truly seems that Microsoft is heading down the same path ...

IMVHO a perfect summary of what's happening

[Shaggy Hiker]

Frankly, I'm not sure that it is even as much as the article suggests. For the most part, the additions to .NET since framework 4.0 have been insignificant. The IDE has added LOTS of features, and some of them are pretty nice, but the language features?? They barely matter. I have yet to see anything added that makes me interested in moving on from 4.0. I do use the newest framework for new things, but it would all compile just fine if I changed the target back to 4.0, and maybe even 3.5, though not 3.0.

So, if they are doing what they say, then it's fine with me. The new things that have been added are things that save a few lines of code, often at the expense of performance, though it's so minor that you'd never see it, normally.

[dilettante]

I don't think it is entirely about bean counters. There are also some strong personalities in charge of engineering now who are somewhat at odds with the Microsoft of the past. Then you ave the whole Azure debacle, which has altered the focus a whole lot in itself.

[DllHell]

Then you ave the whole Azure debacle, which has altered the focus a whole lot in itself.

I'd love it if my debacles generated billions in profits. I might even settle for a few mil. Instead they just generate support calls

[VB6 Programming]

A post from Anthony D. Green (former) VB.Net Program Manager...

A Primer on Why the Chronic Suffering of the VB.NET Community is neither Necessary nor a Matter of Expense or Practicality

[Shaggy Hiker]

That's two or three excellent articles, unfortunately delivered as a single article. Interesting information that could benefit from a bit more structure.

[loquat]

for me, VBA and VB6 is enough most of the time

[Bobbles]

A post from Anthony D. Green (former) VB.Net Program Manager...

A Primer on Why the Chronic Suffering of the VB.NET Community is neither Necessary nor a Matter of Expense or Practicality

I am very elderly, and 2 days ago the postman was talking to me for 5 minutes, and then coughed once.
I backed off (like I have been doing for decades), and then he confessed that he has just returned to work.
He had sore throat, and trouble breathing. Did not self isolate, presumably because doctors (in Australia) are not allowed to test most patients, due to lack of test kits in Australia.
Sorry I am prattling on like the author of that article.

Could someone provide a a managerial summary of that article ?
Otherwise I might be dead, before I finish reading it

Rob (78)

[wqweto]

The post argues that 3-5 person team can push VB forward the way F# team has been doing it for years while still involving the open-source community.

cheers,
</wqw>

[VB6 Programming]

Anthony (the author of the article and Microsoft's former VB.Net program manager) has had health issues for a number of years.

Could a moderator please delete my post (#18).

I had put the article forward as showing the views of someone with inside knowledge. I hadn't intended this become a critique of his writing style.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Just because I wish it had been split into two or three different articles doesn't mean that the article, as written, isn't a valuable contribution. Furthermore, it has already been posted elsewhere in the forums, so it ought to remain here, especially since it is a valuable point of view.

[VB6 Programming]

OK, Shaggy.

It is an interesting and valuable article, and the author is to be commended for it.

The thread had just gone in a direction I hadn't anticipated. I had assumed people would concentrate on the message rather than the messenger (or his writing style). Guess I hadn't thought it through.

(I wasn't objecting to your, or anyone else's, reply - just asking for a little understanding).

[Daniel Duta]

Seeing the picture of VB4.0 in the link in post #1, my heart is full of good memories. At that time, how pleasant it was to develop with VB. Modern and high income.

It's a bit funny but until now I thought you were a teenager

[IliaPreston]

I can clearly remember that in one of the VB6 threads in this forum, there was a very brilliant idea posted by one of the more experienced members, and then another very experienced member had posted a response to it and and greatly admired his idea, and continued to admire that poster, saying something like this (probably with slightly different words) to him:

......
Your idea is great.
And I am quite sure if there is one person that can re-write a new IDE for VB6, that is you.
......

I just tried hard to find that post and that thread but I couldn't.
I looked at quite a few threads, but couldn't find that post.
It was posted in 2019

If anybody can find that post, it would be great.
The member who is considered to be the only person to be able to re-write a new IDE for VB6 as far as I can vaguely remember is probably Russian. I am not sure what made me make such guess about his nationality, probably his user name or less likely that I looked at his location, or some other indication. I don't remember exactly, but I hope it rings a bell for somebody in here.

Having said all of that, my point is: Why are all of us begging Microsoft to roll out VB7?
Can't we ourselves do that?

Maybe a less experienced member like humble me can not.
But, I am quite sure there are some brilliant programmers in this forum.
Can't we create VB7 ourselves?
The VB7 that I dream of is a 64-bit programming language with all the good things of VB6 plus a whole lot of new features.
I think it is high time we did it ourselves.

Any ideas?
Any thoughts on this?

[Episcopal]

O membro que é considerado a única pessoa capaz de reescrever um novo IDE para VB6, tanto quanto me lembro vagamente, é provavelmente russo.

Olaf is Russian? I thought it was American.

[Shaggy Hiker]

German, I believe.

As to whether or not anybody can build a VB7, my guess is no, just because it hasn't been done. Frankly, I believe it can't be done because the target is simultaneously broad and narrow. Everybody wants something different out of it, so any solution will infuriate some segment of the remaining population of VB6 users, who are somewhat distilled, by this point. Those who felt like moving on have moved on, leaving an increasingly differentiated residual group. That group has strong views on what a good replacement would be, and those views are not unified. Second, as that pool slowly shrinks, the number of people willing to pay for a replacement is dwindling, which means that a replacement is going to piss off a fraction of a user base that won't be willing to pay enough to make the project viable.

Therefore, I don't believe any suitable replacement will be developed, or even can be developed.

[Elroy]

Personally, what I'd want is quite specific and also quite simple (well, relatively simple for someone like Microsoft):

A COM based IDE and compiler that looks and behaves nearly identical to the VB6 IDE and compiler, with these enhancements: Compiles to 64-bit (both p-code and machine-code), has a LongLong type, and has the LongPtr type and the associated PtrSafe directive. That's it.

They can even keep all the extra OCX controls, as I'll make Krool's controls work for me (but they'd take some work, as they've got many memory pointers in them that'd need to be converted to LongPtr).

And (I know this will get puzzled looks), but a language that Microsoft states they'll support in terms of service releases and execution support. No hand-holding support needed.

They could even strip a few things things out if they so desired, such as the Data View.

Basically, I want the most recent "core" VBA cut out of MS-Office, with the ability of having custom User Controls and compilable to machine-code.

[dreammanor]

It's a bit funny but until now I thought you were a teenager

Like you, I always think I am a teenager.

[dreammanor]

@IliaPreston, @Shaggy Hiker:

There is only one person in the world who can develop a real VB7, he is German Olaf Schmidt.

IMO, someone who can develop a real VB7 must have the following capabilities and conditions:
(1) VB7 Compiler (able to develop VB7 Compiler）
(2) VB7 IDE (able to develop VB7 IDE）
(3) VB7 core support libs similar to vbRichClient5 (able to develop VB7 Core Lib）
(4) Extremely understand the COM architecture
(5) Has extremely rich development experience in desktop, web, mobile, database and network.
(6) Strong strategic vision.

Maybe wqweto and the trick can develop VB7 Compiler and VB7 IDE, but they do not have a strong and stable core support lib like vbRichClient5 which has been tested for many years.

Edit:
Many people don't realize what a powerful and stable core-lib means for a programming language. They are always entangled in whether RC5 is open source. In fact, RC5's power and stability are the most important. Only based on RC5 can the new VB7 take shape. Only after the new VB7 has been developed and has formed a certain influence, it's meaningful to discuss whether RC5 is open source.

Doing a huge project needs to be divided into many steps, and the order of each step is the key to determining the success of the project.

There are many skilled people here, but very few people have actually done large projects. They don't know how to complete a difficult project.

In China, it seems that some people want to develop VB7, and they are more enthusiastic and exploring. But they did not find the right direction, and they lacked some core technologies. Because China's experienced VC/VB mixed developers have left the VB camp 20 years ago.

Of course, it was not Microsoft, but the market that ultimately killed our dream VB7. Now Windows desktop software has almost no market in China.

[baka]

yeah, Olaf is one of the best.
I would really like a "patreon" page with Olaf, The trick and a couple other experts from here, to team up together to create VB7.
to use a hardware-enabled graphic rendering, can compile to 64bit, back compatible, can use dll without registrations, cross platform etc...
I would contribute a bit, since its something I really would like to happen.
but that will never happen. Olaf is not a team guy. and him doing everything alone, a project that huge, will take 100 years and we will all be dead.

also, if VB7 will have vbRichClient5 as core. I will not support it.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Well, those posts pretty well show what I was talking about: There just isn't all that much agreement as to what is needed or how to proceed.

One thing is consistent, though: The hope that somebody else will do it for you. That's probably understandable. I certainly wouldn't undertake such a thankless task. I've got enough thankless tasks, already. There are also a whole LOT of other people who could do this. After all, there was a group that DID do this. They were in MS, and they created VB4, 5, then 6. They could certainly go further, and were working on it. It was never just one person, and the composition of the group changed over time. They're probably mostly retired, by now, too, but perhaps not all that old (one of the leads retired almost twenty years ago, and he isn't much older than me...and I don't feel all THAT old, myself).

People with the skill exist. People with the desire exist. It isn't clear whether or not those two sets overlap, and by how much. If they do, though, at least they can be pretty confident that they will manage to disappoint a LOT of their potential customers.

[dreammanor]

also, if VB7 will have vbRichClient5 as core. I will not support it.

If there is no vbRichClient5 or vbRichClient6, then VB7 containing only Compiler and IDE will not make any sense, it is just an empty shell.

yeah, Olaf is one of the best.
I would really like a "patreon" page with Olaf, The trick and a couple other experts from here, to team up together to create VB7.
to use a hardware-enabled graphic rendering, can compile to 64bit, back compatible, can use dll without registrations, cross platform etc...
I would contribute a bit, since its something I really would like to happen.
but that will never happen. Olaf is not a team guy. and him doing everything alone, a project that huge, will take 100 years and we will all be dead.

On this forum, Olaf can do what everyone else can do, and he can always do better. That is why we cannot help him.

We all know that wqweto and the trick are one of the most capable people on this forum, but their knowledge and ability are only 30% of Olaf. Most people here have less than 5% of Olaf's programming knowledge. This phenomenon is impossible in any other programming language forum, that is, one person's ability is far ahead of everyone else. What's even more strange is that many people here don't realize this, even the moderators here don't realized it.

I don't want to tout Olaf with these words. Instead, my words will embarrass Olaf. But I still say it because there are too many different voices, but there is only one best solution, and that is Olaf's solution. Although everyone has the right to express their own views, too many different views eventually hindered the development of VB7 and killed VB7 in the bud state. IMO, it is impossible to have VB7.

Some people only trust Microsoft, but Microsoft will not give us any help. In addition, not every product made by Microsoft is very good. Some developers in this world are better than Microsoft engineers.

[baka]

no I dont believe The trick and wqweto is just 30% of Olaf. thats insulting.
maybe overall Olaf is better, he can tackle a lot of things, but in some areas I have seen The trick do things that are on a expert level where Olaf is not concern about at all, or Olaf understands theres no need to compete or make better.

VB7 is a team job. they all deal on parts they are expert in. and together they give feedback to eachother and "learn" to do better, to see outside their own expertise and grow as programmers.
to be a programmer is also about discovery, and that can also be important, to feel theres goals, to learn, since this is a project that will take years to finish.

the Core of VB7 should be "empty", instead in the lists of "components" I can add a form-component or vbRichClient-component or nothing.
that way, I could add directx/direct2d/gdi as my main engine instead to always use vbRichClient in all my project.
If that vbRichClient is forced on me, I rather migrate to another basic language or keep using vb6.

[Eduardo-]

Everybody wants something different out of it, so any solution will infuriate some segment of the remaining population of VB6 users

Of course, there will always be opinions and people who want something else, but most will agree that we need:

Compile to 64 bits
Fix current bugs
Full Unicode support
Fix the non integer TwipsPerPixels issue.
Backward compatibility
Improved IDE
Buit-In subclassing interface

In fact, having the source code, I think most of them would be quite easy to do.

Edit: I mean, not for me, for people who know C and about compilers.

[Niya]

This is strange, I haven't seen any post on this :
https://www.thurrott.com/dev/232268/...f-visual-basic

that will be a very bad news

As someone who loves writing code in VB.Net, I'm really not concerned about this to be honest. VB.Net will be viable for quite some time and when the difference between C# and VB.Net becomes too much to ignore, all I have to do is switch to C# as my language of choice for desktop/server side Windows development. I don't really see a problem here. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for VB.Net to continue to be developed but I can't control that. I know from experience that it's infinitely better to simply switch to something better than trying to shoehorn antiquated tech to do something it wasn't meant to be doing.

Also, unlike 20 years ago, today's world is filled with many different platforms, mature frameworks and APIs with more documentation than you can ever dream of. VB.Net is a very small fish in a very large pond.

[Niya]

yeah, Olaf is one of the best.
I would really like a "patreon" page with Olaf, The trick and a couple other experts from here, to team up together to create VB7.
to use a hardware-enabled graphic rendering, can compile to 64bit, back compatible, can use dll without registrations, cross platform etc...
I would contribute a bit, since its something I really would like to happen.
but that will never happen. Olaf is not a team guy. and him doing everything alone, a project that huge, will take 100 years and we will all be dead.

also, if VB7 will have vbRichClient5 as core. I will not support it.

If you want people to collaborate on something that needs a team of people to develop, you generally start by laying the groundwork and then releasing it as open source on a platform like GitHub. The problem with this is that it requires some kind of interest to succeed. I can imagine it being very heartbreaking to open source something only to find that no one is interested because they are all doing more exciting things. Aside from starting your own company and spending big dollars on a team of developers to work on it, this is pretty much your only option. One of you is gonna have to take that first step and release something on GitHub and try to generate interest.

If I had the immense amount of time required to learn intimate details about the inner workings of compilers and COM, I myself would love to participate in something like this. Not because I like VB6 as a language but simply because I love mucking about in low level stuff. Poking around stuff like vTables or hacking together some kind lexical analyzer is something I know I'd enjoy. I just don't have the time to invest into going deep into it. There are more important things related to real life that need my attention. I don't have months to devote to learning the correct way to build a syntax tree or to learn how specific CPU instructions might differ between Intel and AMD x86 processors.

But who knows, there might be a whole community of people out there who don't care about VB6 but would like to participate in the challenge of creating a worthy successor just because. You guys need to stop talking about it and just fire the shot. You never know.

[SomeYguy]

To my eyes, this is Microsoft going down the same path as Boeing. For many decades, Boeing was run and managed by engineers, and made some of the finest planes the world has ever known. However, a couple of decades ago, with the McDonnell Douglas merger, a bunch of bean-counters got control of the company and completely wrecked it, taking short-cuts wherever they could, and moving the culture rich headquarters from Seattle to Chicago. And now, we see where they've wound up: 737-MAXs that can't fly, cracks all over in the regular 737s, software that won't work in their $6 billion Starliner capsule (almost twice as much as they gave Elon Musk to build the Dragon capsule), and cover-ups surrounding it all.

It truly seems that Microsoft is heading down the same path ... run by bean-counters who can't understand the culture that brought them to where they are, and are making mis-steps at every possible opportunity. Next thing we'll hear is that they're moving their headquarters to Chicago.

And hey, I actually like Chicago, but it's not the engineering and software epicenter of this country.

Bingo. Couldn't have said it better myself