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Thread: How difficult would this job be?

  1. #1

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    How difficult would this job be?

    Hi, i am just looking through a few VB related jobs.

    I would say i'm intermediate at VB, know SQL, SQL server , MS Access and a bit of ASP/ASP.NET and HTML.

    But i have no idea what you would be expected to do in the type of jobs i'm looking at.

    Could somebody please give me advice as to what level of coder you should be to survive in one of these jobs.

    TIA.

    http://jobs.beginners.co.uk/portal/q...sic/id/3063481

    http://jobs.beginners.co.uk/portal/q...sic/id/3064186

  2. #2
    KING BODWAD XXI BodwadUK's Avatar
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    Just apply. If you get an interview you will find out more if not then its just like ignoring it and saying you couldnt do it. AKA you have nothing to lose
    If you dribble then you are as mad as me

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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    I've taken COBOL contracts with very, very little COBOL experience. Sitting quieting with a manual got me through those job. Same with DIBOL...

    Act aggresive - I've never met a challenge that I couldn't overcome...

  4. #4
    KING BODWAD XXI BodwadUK's Avatar
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    The challenge is what makes it fun. I am no longer challenged and I am fed up
    If you dribble then you are as mad as me

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  5. #5
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Originally posted by BodwadUK
    The challenge is what makes it fun. I am no longer challenged and I am fed up
    That's a shame. I've been programming for 25 years now - only 3 years on PC's with VB.

    Nearly 20 years ago I stopped working for others - giving up my proprietary rights to lizards who only cashed in on you.

    I truly love my work.

  6. #6
    I wonder how many charact
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    That first one would be a cake-walk for you.... its sounds like investigative troubleshooting (tech support on a higher level).

    The second one is easy too.....

    Employment ads always make themselves sound like you need a phd from Harvard or Oxford to get a job... (business analyst = listen to our needs and model a program to meet them)

  7. #7
    Don't Panic! Ecniv's Avatar
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    You just need confidence to get a job (it seems). If you can convince the manager you do know what you are on about (and look it up at high speed if you don't) then you are more likely to be hired.

    How do I know??


    Because I don't have confidence, and I could probably do 80% of the jobs I've applied for, instead I'm a temp lazing away the days (atm) being bored.

    Gutting.

    Vince

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  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Ecniv
    You just need confidence to get a job (it seems). If you can convince the manager you do know what you are on about (and look it up at high speed if you don't) then you are more likely to be hired.

    How do I know??


    Because I don't have confidence, and I could probably do 80% of the jobs I've applied for, instead I'm a temp lazing away the days (atm) being bored.

    Gutting.

    Vince
    I am a temp too =) But cause I have to go back to school august 10th >=(

  9. #9

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    Originally posted by Ecniv
    You just need confidence to get a job (it seems). If you can convince the manager you do know what you are on about (and look it up at high speed if you don't) then you are more likely to be hired.

    How do I know??


    Because I don't have confidence, and I could probably do 80% of the jobs I've applied for, instead I'm a temp lazing away the days (atm) being bored.

    Gutting.

    Vince
    hmm well i've seen quite a few of your posts in the db forum, and i'd say your were more advanced than me so....

    So your saying you've applied for a lot of VB jobs but didn't get them. What do yuo think was your losing point?

  10. #10
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecniv View Post
    You just need confidence to get a job (it seems). If you can convince the manager you do know what you are on about (and look it up at high speed if you don't) then you are more likely to be hired.

    How do I know??


    Because I don't have confidence, and I could probably do 80% of the jobs I've applied for, instead I'm a temp lazing away the days (atm) being bored.

    Gutting.

    Vince
    Interesting Video:

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Yeah, I like that point of view.

    And I've been trying to think of how to reply in this thread for the last 16 years, and today is the day!
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    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, I like that point of view.

    And I've been trying to think of how to reply in this thread for the last 16 years, and today is the day!
    He might of retired by now...
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Gee, I hope not. Perhaps I'll have given him the gumption to finally apply.

    Seeing these old threads is always interesting. Some classic old characters participated in some of these threads, like Bodwad, Ecniv, Nemaroller, szlamany....where have they all gotten off to?

    What's fairly novel about this thread is that there are several participants, and not one of them was perma-banned. Lots of those old threads are populated by folks who walked the plank for one reason or another.
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  14. #14
    I wonder how many charact
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Yes, just the other day I was looking for a fast quick solution to some problem and came across this: https://github.com/mendhak/docker-http-https-echo

    I thought to myself, what's the possibility it is the same mendhak from vbforums?

    I now just thought to myself, how is it possible vbforums is still running? And that ShaggyHiker is still moderating? Almost on the 20th anniversary of joining.
    Last edited by nemaroller; Feb 25th, 2020 at 09:32 AM.

  15. #15
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Still moderating, still don't have clue about the avatar image and still not asking
    Slow as hell.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Vase of Fish, I believe. Although more convincing as a palm tree with a weight problem.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  17. #17
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    I believe we were talking about Mendhak's amazon-box-wally...

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  18. #18
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    I find it hard to believe that there would be two Mendhak. Perhaps I just don't WANT to believe that....
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  19. #19
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Vase of Fish, I believe. Although more convincing as a palm tree with a weight problem.
    You just had to ruin it for me didn't you?

    Slow as hell.

  20. #20
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Vase of Fish, I believe. Although more convincing as a palm tree with a weight problem.
    For years I thought it was a Pineapple.

  21. #21
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Speaking of old threads, jobs, and other odds and ends... has anyone heard of the fizzbuzz test? I'd never heard of it until yesterday in a reddit thread, but apparently it's a common litmus test for weeding out potential candidates that can't program themselves out of a wet paper bag.


    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
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  22. #22
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    That was new to me...

    I did it in about twenty-five minutes. I made a couple of mistakes, had to look up how to check for a whole number, and had the order I checked the conditions mixed up. Here is my solution...it is not as clean as the ones in the article (I didn't look first)

    https://wiki.c2.com/?FizzBuzzTest

    Code:
    Dim i As Integer
    Dim Check3 As Double
    Dim Check5 As Double
    Dim output As Double
    
    For i = 1 To 100
        Check3 = i / 3
        Check5 = i / 5
        If (Integer.TryParse(Check3, output)) And (Integer.TryParse(Check5, output)) Then
            Debug.Print(i & " FizzBuzz")
        ElseIf (Integer.TryParse(Check5, output)) Then
            Debug.Print(i & " Buzz")
        ElseIf (Integer.TryParse(Check3, output)) Then
            Debug.Print(i & " Fizz")
        Else
            Debug.Print(i.ToString)
        End If
    
    Next
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Feb 26th, 2020 at 12:22 PM.
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  23. #23
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Yeah, that resorts to the floating point math that people were talking about in the reddit post... according to them, you'd get partial points for it.

    How about this for a "cleaner" approach:

    Code:
    Dim i As Integer
    Dim Check3 As Integer
    Dim Check5 As Integer
    Dim output As Double
    
    For i = 1 To 100
        Check3 = i Mod 3
        Check5 = i Mod 5
        If (Check3 = 0) AndAlso (Check5 = 0) Then
            Debug.Print(i & " FizzBuzz")
        ElseIf Check5 = 0 Then
            Debug.Print(i & " Buzz")
        ElseIf Check3 =  Then
            Debug.Print(i & " Fizz")
        Else
            Debug.Print(i.ToString)
        End If
    
    Next
    That's basically what they are looking for... a loop and the use of a modulo operand and the proper use of the 3, 5, and 3&5 checking...

    I think the biggest thing that trips people up is the divisible by 3 and 5 people try to d a check by 3 then then by 5, then by 3 and 5.... and then wonder why FizzBuzz never happens, not realizing it needs to be checked for first.

    Apparently there's a number of people out there that can't get this even with Google and 45 minutes.

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  24. #24
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    I think the biggest thing that trips people up is the divisible by 3 and 5 people try to d a check by 3 then then by 5, then by 3 and 5.... and then wonder why FizzBuzz never happens, not realizing it needs to be checked for first.
    I did that the first iteration
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  25. #25
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    I did that the first iteration
    But you at least ran it, checked it, and figured it out... right? The thread I was reading, people weren't even doing that.... they were googling the answer, finding the first one, copying that - and it was HEAVILY documented to be the WRONG answer too - and then submitting that... It reminds me a lot of some of the threads around here, where people blindly copy/pasta code with out ever understanding once single iota of it.

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  26. #26
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    It reminds me a lot of some of the threads around here, where people blindly copy/pasta code with out ever understanding once single iota of it.

    -tg
    I really like that sentence. I hope it was intentional. Nothing like that spaghetti code.
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  27. #27
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Yeah, that resorts to the floating point math that people were talking about in the reddit post... according to them, you'd get partial points for it.

    How about this for a "cleaner" approach:

    Code:
    Dim i As Integer
    Dim Check3 As Integer
    Dim Check5 As Integer
    Dim output As Double
    
    For i = 1 To 100
        Check3 = i Mod 3
        Check5 = i Mod 5
        If (Check3 = 0) AndAlso (Check5 = 0) Then
            Debug.Print(i & " FizzBuzz")
        ElseIf Check5 = 0 Then
            Debug.Print(i & " Buzz")
        ElseIf Check3 =  Then
            Debug.Print(i & " Fizz")
        Else
            Debug.Print(i.ToString)
        End If
    
    Next
    That's basically what they are looking for... a loop and the use of a modulo operand and the proper use of the 3, 5, and 3&5 checking...

    I think the biggest thing that trips people up is the divisible by 3 and 5 people try to d a check by 3 then then by 5, then by 3 and 5.... and then wonder why FizzBuzz never happens, not realizing it needs to be checked for first.

    Apparently there's a number of people out there that can't get this even with Google and 45 minutes.

    -tg
    I See the improvements...cool
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  28. #28
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    With FizzBuzz, there aren't really any rules about how you solve it as long as the algorithm's correct. Beyond that, particular employers might be looking for particular gotchas, approaches, want it in a specific language etc. but that's not really part of FizzBuzz.

    So, while I also prefer TG's approach, Tyson's was perfectly correct. Unless the interviewer says it isn't.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  29. #29
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    With FizzBuzz, there aren't really any rules about how you solve it as long as the algorithm's correct. Beyond that, particular employers might be looking for particular gotchas, approaches, want it in a specific language etc. but that's not really part of FizzBuzz.

    So, while I also prefer TG's approach, Tyson's was perfectly correct. Unless the interviewer says it isn't.
    We used to use this with constraints. Some of our favourites were:

    1) No nested if and no else (or equivalent) and use of the words fizz buzz only once

    2) No if/else (or equivalent)

    3) left/right justify output in 40 chars with equal spacing as far as possible.
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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  30. #30
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    No nested if and no else (or equivalent) and use of the words fizz buzz only once
    That one was specified the one time I had to do it. Two separate Ifs and a Concatenation was the solution I used.

    I've got a (possibly false) memory of friend telling me he used recursion to solve it once. Though as I sit here now I can't imagine how that would be useful.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  31. #31
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Code:
    Though as I sit here now I can't imagine how that would be useful.
    For an interview, the issue isn't that the solution is useful, but whether the person can think that way
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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  32. #32
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    I'm not sure that I could do a recursive solution for an interview, but if they'd be willing to settle for plain old cursing, I could manage that.
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  33. #33
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Dunno where I read this - but a few "hardcases of interviewers" seem to give extra-points for:
    - recognizing the "math-simplification" (when the product of 3*5 is used in the modulo-tests)
    - and when the problem got "split-up" into a "description"- and "generic-solver"-part

    Something like in this (VB6-based) example:
    Code:
    Dim Result, colDiv As New cSortedDictionary 'describe "the problem"
                colDiv.Add 3, "is Dividable by 3 (Fizz)"
                colDiv.Add 5, "is Dividable by 5 (Buzz)"
                colDiv.Add 3 * 5, "is Dividable by 3 and 5 (FizzBuzz)"
     
    For Each Result In DivCheckOnInterval(1, 100, colDiv, True) 'solve the problem generically
        Debug.Print Result
    Next
    
    Function DivCheckOnInterval(First, Last, Divisors As cSortedDictionary, ByVal LargestHitOnly As Boolean) As cCollection
      Set DivCheckOnInterval = New_c.Collection 'set our function-result (to a yet empty List-Object)
      
      Dim Number As Long, i As Long
      For Number = First To Last
        For i = Divisors.Count - 1 To 0 Step -1 'reverse loop over the (automatically sorted) divisors-list
          If Number Mod Divisors.KeyByIndex(i) = 0 Then 'Ok, it's dividable...
             DivCheckOnInterval.Add Number & " " & Divisors.ItemByIndex(i) 'add the Number + "friendly text"
             If LargestHitOnly Then Exit For
          End If
        Next
      Next
    End Function
    Olaf

  34. #34
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'm not sure that I could do a recursive solution for an interview, but if they'd be willing to settle for plain old cursing, I could manage that.
    Of curse they would...
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  35. #35
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    "hardcases of interviewers" seem to give extra points
    for the shortest code . I'm C++ not VB, but for C++ for the shortest code consider:

    Code:
    auto fizzbuzz(size_t i)
    {
    	static array<string, 4> fb {"0", "fizz", "buzz", "fizzbuzz"};
    
    	return (string)(itoa(i, (char*)fb.data(), 10) + (!(i % 3) + !(i % 5) * 2) * sizeof(string));
    }
    
    int main()
    {
    	for (int i = 1; i < 40; ++i)
    		cout << fizzbuzz(i) << " ";
    }
    with a bonus points for using static and having just one non-definition statement.
    Last edited by 2kaud; Mar 1st, 2020 at 06:51 AM.
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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  36. #36
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    for the shortest code ...
    Code:
    auto fizzbuzz(size_t i)
    {
        static array<string, 4> fb {"0", "fizz", "buzz", "fizzbuzz"};
    
        return (string)(itoa(i, (char*)fb.data(), 10) + (!(i % 3) + !(i % 5) * 2) * sizeof(string));
    }
    
    int main()
    {
        for (int i = 1; i < 40; ++i)
            cout << fizzbuzz(i) << " ";
    }
    Hah, never underestimate the Power of VBs runtime-functions...

    The two below are barely used (not widely known) - but they're there ... not sure if still in VB.NET though)

    First, the Choose-Function (which basically does the same thing as the above C++ code).
    Code:
    For i = 1 To 100
      Print i & Choose(IIf(i Mod 3, 0, 1) + IIf(i Mod 5, 0, 2), " Fizz", " Buzz", " FizzBuzz")
    Next
    Next one is the Switch-function (which reads a bit more "straight to the point" IMO):
    Code:
    For i = 1 To 100
      Print i & Switch(i Mod 15=0, " FizzBuzz", i Mod 5=0, " Buzz", i Mod 3=0, " Fizz")
    Next
    Olaf

  37. #37
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    The two below are barely used (not widely known) - but they're there ... not sure if still in VB.NET though)
    Yeah, it's either there, or something essentially the same is there. I've never liked them. Ternary operators and those IIF and If() methods are things that can be quite compact, but you can write some horrible spaghetti with them. I would expect that somebody would come up with a LINQ/Lambda approach that would be a total pain to read, too.
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  38. #38
    WiggleWiggle dclamp's Avatar
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    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by nemaroller View Post
    Yes, just the other day I was looking for a fast quick solution to some problem and came across this: https://github.com/mendhak/docker-http-https-echo

    I thought to myself, what's the possibility it is the same mendhak from vbforums?

    Fairly certain that is him. The domain name on the profile page is mendhak.com which I recall was linked to his flikr account. And it still is!

    Good find!
    My usual boring signature: Something

  39. #39
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    4,910

    Re: How difficult would this job be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I would expect that somebody would come up with a LINQ/Lambda approach that would be a total pain to read, too.
    As for "painful to read"...
    I'd say that the above given "Switch-Function-based" OneLiner describes the problem in a succinct and nicely readable way...
    (can't find anything I'd like to improve there, syntax-wise - once you get the "paired pattern" of "condition, value, condition, value, ...").

    Olaf

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