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Thread: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

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    For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    To help encourage Microsoft to keep VB.Net "co-equal" with C#, let's start a letter campaign to Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft, to help make it clear how many businesses and government organizations are using VB.Net powered applications and how many software companies and programmers use VB.Net as their language of choice. I honestly don't think Microsoft realizes how many people and organizations use VB.Net and\or software written with VB.Net.

    Here is the address and a sample letter. Feel free to use it as is or rewrite it in your own words. Put it on your own letterhead, if you have one. If you're a software company, ask all of your customers to send a letter on their own letterhead.



    TO: Satya Nadella
    Microsoft Headquarters
    One Microsoft Way
    Redmond, WA
    98052, USA


    Mr. Nadella,

    As the CEO of Microsoft, I assume you are aware that the promise made by Microsoft to keep VB and C# “co-equal” languages on the .Net platform is now being abandoned as Microsoft develops .Net Core and .Net 5. I’m writing to ask, in the strongest terms possible, that Microsoft keep its promise and maintain the co-equal evolution of VB and C#.

    Many millions of lines of code and thousands of desktop and web applications used by business and government are written in VB.Net. Thousands of programmers and hundreds of software companies use VB.Net as their development language of choice. The software they develop, maintain and sell creates Billions of dollars of revenue for Microsoft by driving demand for Windows based computing platforms to run that software on.

    To fail to keep VB.Net a first class citizen of .Net, and a state-of-the-art programming language, would be a gross violation of the trust that all of the programmers, software companies, businesses and government agencies have put in Microsoft. It would also be a very poor business decision. Forcing a one-size-fits-all solution has never been a successful long term business strategy. It’s why IBM no longer has a virtual monopoly on the computer industry. It’s why Linux and open source software now dominate the web.

    There are many other programming languages, most of which don’t require a Windows based platform to run on. Alienating all of the schools, programmers, software companies, businesses and government agencies that depend on VB.Net just to save a few dollars (what amounts to pocket change for Microsoft) is not a long term winning strategy. Penny wise, pound foolish… as the old saying goes.

    So again, I strongly urge you to keep the promise Microsoft made to the VB.Net programmers and all of the organizations that depend on their software solutions. Keep VB.Net a co-equal option for developing ALL types of applications across ALL of the platforms that .Net Core and .Net 5 will enable.





    Respectfully,



    _______________________________

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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    So despite never previously having been a member or supporter of this forum, you started a similar thread here. I told you in that thread that we were not your soapbox but we would be happy to engage in discussion with you. You have not responded to a single comment in that thread.

    And now you post this, further asking us to support your cause. While I can understand that your cause is somewhat aligned to this forum, I must say that you are currently showing us a complete lack of respect. Given that lack of respect, why do you think any of us would support you?
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    I was going to point out how well the same approach worked for VB6.
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    @FunkyDexter I didn't intend any lack of respect. In fact, I'm confused as to exactly how I'm being disrespectful. Posting information to VB.Net programmers about how Microsoft is quietly abandoning them and what they might be able to do to keep their language of choice viable is, apparently, somehow "disrespectful"? Seems a bit odd that a website named VBForums finds it objectionable when someone tries to get a message out to VB.Net programmers and wants to bury it in a forum where the vast majority of the VB.Net programmers that visit the site will never see it.

    The reason I never responded to any of the posts on the previous thread is because I never got a notification that anyone had posted anything. After reading through them, I don't see any point in responding to posts by people that don't use the language and\or don't care if VB.Net is killed off... which is why I didn't post it in that type of forum to begin with.

    If I wanted a soapbox to argue about what language is best, I could go start troll threads in other language forums. I believe in freedom of choice and couldn't care less what language anyone else chooses to use. If they like it, let them use it. What I do care about is maintaining the freedom of choice for all VB.Net programmers. Sorry if that offends you.

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    Hyperactive Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolven View Post
    To help encourage Microsoft to keep VB.Net "co-equal" with C#, let's start a letter campaign to Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft, to help make it clear how many businesses and government organizations are using VB.Net powered applications and how many software companies and programmers use VB.Net as their language of choice. I honestly don't think Microsoft realizes how many people and organizations use VB.Net and\or software written with VB.Net.

    Here is the address and a sample letter. Feel free to use it as is or rewrite it in your own words. Put it on your own letterhead, if you have one. If you're a software company, ask all of your customers to send a letter on their own letterhead...
    Wolven, most programmers use alias' online, so I doubt they're gonna write Microsoft giving their home address away as well as their real names.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolven View Post
    I believe in freedom of choice and couldn't care less what language anyone else chooses to use. If they like it, let them use it. What I do care about is maintaining the freedom of choice for all VB.Net programmers.
    Alot of VB programmers in the main forum are young, just gettin' started with VB, so asking them to save it would make them choose to look more at other programming languages.
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Feb 16th, 2020 at 11:59 AM.

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    Frenzied Member wqweto's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    A message from VB6 sub-forum:

    Comrades in faith,

    Being abandoned by mother Microsoft can only make you stronger! Don't give up, never!

    L.O.L
    </wqw>

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    Hyperactive Member Peter Porter's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    I'm sure Visual Studio and Windows 8 thru 10 is reporting to Microsoft programming language usage so they know what they should focus on.
    Last edited by Peter Porter; Feb 16th, 2020 at 08:09 AM.

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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    I don't see any point in responding to posts by people...
    There is literally (and I feel I'm using that word entirely accurately) nothing you could follow those words with that would not be disrespectful to the members of this forum. It's them you're talking about, whether they have moved on from VB.Net, continue to use VB.Net or have never used VB.Net as all (we have a great many members who haven't). Many of the members here have invested a great deal of time and effort into helping each out and building a community to which you have, as yet, made no contribution whatsoever. And you have just declared that you don't care what they have to say unless it is to agree with you. So, yes, I would call that disrespectful.

    If you want to engage in discussion about the future of VB.Net that would be great and you would be very welcome. Your topic is certainly relevant to this forum, it's the manner in which you have chosen to pursue it that's problematic.
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    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    I would make a couple of points:

    1) Form letter responses are easily recognized as such by the recipient, and I can't imagine that they are considered very highly. It's quite likely that they aren't even counted. They certainly aren't read. Now, you might say that the form letter is just a suggestion, but you really don't want people taking that suggestion. If what they send is even fairly close to what you supplied, it is likely not to be counted. This is probably especially true of MS, since the VB6 folks have tried petitions in the past, to no noticeable effect.

    2) Not engaging with those with a different view is becoming either the American way, or the Facebook Way, or something like that. It's still not right, whatever way it is.

    3)I didn't even realize that anybody cared all that much about which language they used (aside from C/C++ users disparaging VB, which has been around since the 90s) until folks started threads about VB6. That was more than a decade back, and VB6 is still around, as is .NET in all forms. Still, I can't say I'm surprised to hear that there is a VB.NET partisan. To be clear, I use VB.NET preferentially over any other language, though I work in other languages as needed. However, the VB6 folks had a better point than there is with VB.NET: There was NO migration path out of VB6, whereas there is a clear migration path out of VB.NET. They were stuck, we are not.

    4) 30.153681345432673. OK, that's not much of a point, but I thought I had copied an earlier thought to paste in here, and it turns out that earlier thought was not what was in my clipboard buffer, and since this is Chit-Chat, I shared what I had. That number is what was there. In case anybody is wondering, it's a rough estimate of the length at hatching of a Chinook salmon. It's also pretty wrong, since it's based off of some reasonable data and one bad assumption. The number is too high.
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I would make a couple of points:

    1) Form letter responses are easily recognized as such by the recipient, and I can't imagine that they are considered very highly.
    Depends on how many they get... If you have a better idea I'm all ears.

    [QUOTE=2) Not engaging with those with a different view is becoming either the American way, or the Facebook Way, or something like that. It's still not right, whatever way it is.[/QUOTE]

    I have no problem engaging. Arguing over what color someone likes on the other hand is a waste of my time.

    [QUOTE=3)the VB6 folks had a better point than there is with VB.NET: There was NO migration path out of VB6, whereas there is a clear migration path out of VB.NET.[/QUOTE]

    Sure there was. VB.Net, C, C++, Turbo Pascal, Java, etc. All they had to do is learn a new language, which is exactly what Microsoft is trying to force VB.Net programmers to do.

    [QUOTE=4) 30.153681345432673. it's a rough estimate of the length at hatching of a Chinook salmon[/QUOTE]

    Seeing as how they hatch from 1\3" eggs...


    [QUOTE=Alot of VB programmers in the main forum are young, just gettin' started with VB, so asking them to save it would make them choose to look more at other programming languages.[/QUOTE]

    If Microsoft is going to abandon VB.Net, then they should look at learning some other language. I'm trying to make their educational investment worthwhile by keeping VB.Net a viable language into the future.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolven View Post

    Sure there was. VB.Net, C, C++, Turbo Pascal, Java, etc. All they had to do is learn a new language, which is exactly what Microsoft is trying to force VB.Net programmers to do.
    That's NOT all they had to do. If they had sizable programs written in VB6, as many do, they also had to rewrite the program in the different language since there was no working migration tool. That's not the case with VB.NET, which can be turned into C# with little or no effort. Yes, you could re-write any .NET program into some other language, the difference is that you don't HAVE to, because the favored child is a direct conversion for which there are numerous tools.

    Seeing as how they hatch from 1\3" eggs...
    Which creates an even worse measure. The problem is that the fish in the egg is curled in a ball, so the diameter of the egg is not a good measure of the size of the hatched fish, which is longer than the egg, but the weight then gets kind of screwy.
    Last edited by Shaggy Hiker; Feb 16th, 2020 at 09:03 PM.
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Which creates an even worse measure. The problem is that the fish in the egg is curled in a ball, so the diameter of the egg is not a good measure of the size of the hatched fish, which is longer than the egg, but the weight then gets kind of screwy.
    Yes, the fish is curled up in the egg... but not 30" worth...

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    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Your fighting a lost cause, the decision in MS has already been made they are not going to reverse their decision no matter how many letters are sent.

    If you take a look at the VB6 forum there are threads that look just like yours about VB6 and those threads have been running for years and years. VB6 still has a active fanatic userbase but all they get is ongoing support, expect the same for VB.Net ongoing support.
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Realistically , I think you're likely to get even less traction that the VB6 community did.

    Microsoft didn't really have a choice about having it continue to work due to it sitting behind office (I believe VBA and VB6 use the same underlying run time? - I'm sure one of our VB6 experts can correct me if I'm wrong in that). Dropping VBA would have meant dropping every excel and word macro out there which could have seen a major switch away from Office by the market. I feel like they'd have dropped support for the run time in a heartbeat if it was just application developers at stake. Their position was: "move to .Net or die" and they didn't waver at all in that. I haven't seen much about them having plans to drop VB.Net but if the signals are the same as they were for 6 then history says that no amount of petitions is going to change anything.

    I'll be sad if VB.Net gets dropped. I was sad when VB6 was dropped. But the effort involved in clinging on to either seems to far outweigh the effort involved in switching to something else. Particularly in moving from VB.Net to C# which wouldn't even necessitate a code rewrite.
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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Personally it doesn't look like they have plans to drop VB.Net but rather they aren't making sure features are released on both VB.Net and C# simultaneously, the features will be there for VB but it may take longer.

    I can't say I disagree with this decision much either, from personal (and anecdotal experience) VB.Net users seem to adopt new features at a slower rate than C#. In the blog https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotne...uage-strategy/ it seems that the uptake of MVC is primarily C# and VB.Net is still mainly WebForms. Personally I have found C# users much more inclined to use Entity Framework (or other ORM) while the majority of VB.Net users I know are still using DataSets / DataAdapters or hand written SQL.

    If C# users are likely to be the first to adopt new technologies and changes it makes sense to release them for C# first rather than delay the launch until both languages have parity.

    Perhaps I am being cynical here but there does seem to be a tendency in VB for people to hold onto the past. Even on these forums you see a lot of VB.Net code still using VB6 functions and constructs such as DateDiff, Len, Mid, etc. rather than the built in language support. IF C# users are more enthusiastic about new things then give them the new things first, makes sense to me.

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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Isn't VB.NET and C# the same language? I always thought they were twins. LOL.

    It was an extremely stupid decision that Microsoft incorporated multiple languages into .NET platform, just as the US Air Force packed many features into the F35 fighter. The end result was that the F35 became a bloated, obese, short-legged monster.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Yesterday at 01:07 PM.

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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    It was an extremely stupid decision that Microsoft incorporated multiple languages into .NET platform
    I disagree. Speaking as an ex VB6 programmer, I doubt I'd have jumped straight from 6 to C#, I'd probably have headed off in some other direction. 6 to .Net to C# felt like a natural progression to me and kept me in the Microsoft camp. I guess it's debatable whether .Net continues to fulfil that bridging role but it certainly made sense at the time.

    I will say that, if MS are dropping VB.Net, it seems like an odd decision to me. C# and VB.Net sit on top of the same libraries so it's only the syntax layer that needs to be maintained. I imagine that's a fairly small outlay to avoid the risk of alienating and losing VB.Net programmers. I suspect UnfeasiblyMoist is correct though, they're probably just allowing feature parity to slip.
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    It's not just letting feature parity slip, although that's part of it. They are also NOT including VB in new web technologies, Xamarin, and other components for writing apps on other (non Windows) platforms.

    And FunkyDexter is right. For the most part it's only the syntax layer, so why would you drop that?

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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    PlausiblyDamp states that VB.Net programmers are "slower" at adopting new "features" such as Entity Frameworks (EF) and MVC. I would suggest that that's because most VB.Net programmers are Business Application Programmers. i.e. most of their applications are designed for desktop use, such as accounting, customer management, etc. In that scenario MVC adds absolutely nothing to the application. In fact, it just makes it more complicated, slower and error prone.

    Likewise EF is just a tool to "help" programmers with creating the data access plumbing. That could be looked at as; If you're too dumb to figure it out, we'll do it for you. Which is fine, if you want to use it AND it does what you want. On the other hand, if you already have a data access design that you like and it works, it doesn't do anything for you other than get in the way. Also, if you do a little Google searching, you'll find that there are "issues" with EF in certain scenarios and it doesn't always generate the best SQL code.

    I would also suggest that maybe the average age of professional VB.Net programmers is older than the average of C# programmers. One thing you learn with age in this industry is that the latest, greatest new idea often isn't. Successful business software companies, and the programmers that work for them, learn that they can't afford to jump on every "new" thing that comes along. Too often those Grand New Plans fail to pan out. Silverlight? Anyone remember that latest and greatest "tool"? Do a little research and you'll find many others like it.

    Companies like Microsoft like to pump out "new technologies" that are going to make your life SOOO much better and easier! It will solve world hunger and make you toast in the morning! The main purpose of most of these "new technologies" is simply to make the company that created them a LOT OF MONEY... Software isn't like food. You don't buy it, eat it, and then need to go buy more. Consequently, unless they CHANGE things, product sales slow and life is woe. Windows 8? The best thing about that product is that all of the people involved in creating it got fired or reassigned to the mail room.

    My point is, that yeah, business software companies and VB.Net programmers are probably slower to jump on the Next Big Thang... but for good reasons. Redesigning and rewriting complete business applications is very expensive and labor intensive. Unless there's a PROVEN (i.e. once it has a track record), SIGNIFICANT benefit to it (EF doesn't qualify), it probably isn't going to happen. You can call it "slow", I call it "wisdom".

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolven View Post
    Yes, the fish is curled up in the egg... but not 30" worth...
    Oops, no units. I should have mentioned that the measure is in millimeters. It's still too long, as it's not 30 mm worth, either, but that's certainly better than 30 inches.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    This whole "slower to jump" thing is what MS stated a couple years back. I'm not going to look for the quote, but somebody linked to it on here. The idea was that C# would get the shiny new features, while VB would be more stable. I have no problem with that, if that's really what is going on. There are lots of language features that allow you to do "cool new things", but which you could always do with a few more lines. For example, LINQ didn't allow you to do things you couldn't do, it just allowed it to be done in very few lines, though those lines generally run slower than if they weren't used. Similarly, there isn't any new feature that has been added that allows you to do something that hasn't been done before. Xamarin was mentioned, but here again, it's not something new. You've ALWAYS had the ability to shove hot needles under your fingernails, so Xamarin is nothing new.

    To be fair, Xamarin is getting better, and I tried it in the old days, but I didn't want to pass up on the quip. Still, I'm not quite sure how much that matters. The key issue for Xamarin isn't the language in the back end, it's the XAML in front of it, and always has been. XAML isn't VB or C#, it's XAML. What's behind it shouldn't matter. Xamarin wasn't MS, anyways, MS bought it. It was the original developers that made the C# decision, not MS. The only thing MS hasn't done is made it VB compatible, which they may do, but the speculation around the purchase was that they were just going to bury Xamarin in the back lots of Redmond. If that happens, it doesn't really matter which language it uses. The jury is still out on that one, though. Xamarin has a ways to go to knock off WinForms, still. If it becomes (or remains) an also-ran, then it still doesn't matter much which language it uses. To use it, you have to use XAMl plus something. If you already know the something, that's a step in the right direction, but you'll have to learn something either way.

    I haven't seen a feature added to .NET since 4.0 that I couldn't live without. There have been a few nice adds, but nothing huge. MVC is an umbrella over several different things. I haven't used all of it, but WebAPI doesn't care which language you use, and I don't know if any of the rest of MVC does, either.

    I'd also say that comparing the F35 to VS isn't right. I agree that the F35 was a mistake, but it was a mistake because it tried to create a single plane that could fill two roles that required opposing designs from a physics perspective, so the only way to make it work was to use a LOT of power to overcome the design compromises, which comes with a different cost. Multiple planes for multiple roles is a far better plan, in my opinion. However, that isn't the case with VS. Ultimately, VS is an IDE, and a very good one. The bloat was largely addressed with VS2017, in that you can select which pieces you want. What was NOT addressed, and what somebody on here suggested, was an opt in for the IDE features. Some of those can be computationally costly, and NOBODY uses all the features, though everybody seems to prefer a different set of features. The drawback of the current IDE is that every feature is on by default, and many can't be turned off. If you have the system that can run it, fine, but opt in would have been a better option for a computationally heavy display. Many of those features are really cool....many I don't use at all. That's different from the F35 that tried to implement two opposing designs. In the case of VS, they implemented EVERY feature they could think of, and you get them all by default. There's nothing opposing about it.

    Furthermore, the JS editor in 2017 was pretty doggone good. Could be better, but it was a big step forwards from 2015, as 2015 was a big step forwards from 2013. It's going in the right direction.
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    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolven View Post
    PlausiblyDamp states that VB.Net programmers are "slower" at adopting new "features" such as Entity Frameworks (EF) and MVC. I would suggest that that's because most VB.Net programmers are Business Application Programmers. i.e. most of their applications are designed for desktop use, such as accounting, customer management, etc. In that scenario MVC adds absolutely nothing to the application. In fact, it just makes it more complicated, slower and error prone.

    Likewise EF is just a tool to "help" programmers with creating the data access plumbing. That could be looked at as; If you're too dumb to figure it out, we'll do it for you. Which is fine, if you want to use it AND it does what you want. On the other hand, if you already have a data access design that you like and it works, it doesn't do anything for you other than get in the way. Also, if you do a little Google searching, you'll find that there are "issues" with EF in certain scenarios and it doesn't always generate the best SQL code.

    I would also suggest that maybe the average age of professional VB.Net programmers is older than the average of C# programmers. One thing you learn with age in this industry is that the latest, greatest new idea often isn't. Successful business software companies, and the programmers that work for them, learn that they can't afford to jump on every "new" thing that comes along. Too often those Grand New Plans fail to pan out. Silverlight? Anyone remember that latest and greatest "tool"? Do a little research and you'll find many others like it.

    Companies like Microsoft like to pump out "new technologies" that are going to make your life SOOO much better and easier! It will solve world hunger and make you toast in the morning! The main purpose of most of these "new technologies" is simply to make the company that created them a LOT OF MONEY... Software isn't like food. You don't buy it, eat it, and then need to go buy more. Consequently, unless they CHANGE things, product sales slow and life is woe. Windows 8? The best thing about that product is that all of the people involved in creating it got fired or reassigned to the mail room.

    My point is, that yeah, business software companies and VB.Net programmers are probably slower to jump on the Next Big Thang... but for good reasons. Redesigning and rewriting complete business applications is very expensive and labor intensive. Unless there's a PROVEN (i.e. once it has a track record), SIGNIFICANT benefit to it (EF doesn't qualify), it probably isn't going to happen. You can call it "slow", I call it "wisdom".
    Again, perhaps it just me but your post pretty much justifies Microsoft's reluctance to release features for both languages at the same time. EntityFramework has been around for about 11 or 12 years so it is hardly "new" and yes it does have issues in certain situations; however I find that I can write software a lot quicker using a combination of EF and LinQ and I will drop to SQL when the need arises.

    If I was writing a business app that was designed for the Web or an intranet then I would use MVC over WebForms as it provides a much cleaner way of writing software, the MVC approach and the MS Framework makes it much easier to write clean code with a proper separation between layers. Again MVC has been around for 10 or 11 years as a MS Framework and a lot longer as a way of designing software. Obviously if I was developing a desktop application then I wouldn't be using a web framework. A former VB.Net PM made this point https://github.com/dotnet/vblang/iss...ment-354927626 and I think it does justify their stance, if less than 1% of a feature's users are using VB.Net then it is very hard to justify the time, effort and cost of prioritising the VB implementation of that feature.

  24. #24

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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    @Shaggy and @Plausibly

    I agree with pretty much everything you both said. But I think we have a slightly different base perspective. I wouldn't have any problem with C# getting the shiny new stuff and VB getting them a little later... but that's not my understanding of what's happening. Various statements form Microsoft PM's indicate that ONLY C# will get the shiny new stuff (cross platform, .Net Core Web, etc.) and VB will primarily be incorporated for ONLY legacy uses (i.e. Windows based apps). This is where I have a problem. There's no reason to eliminate VB.Net as a viable language for writing cross platform (Mac, IOS, Android, Linux, etc.) and new Web apps. THAT is just B.S.

    Also I find Microsoft's new found love of Python rather odd. Why would you pour so much support into an open source language that is almost a clone of VB.Net? (Other than being not quite as nice, complete or stable) I don't have any problem with adding support for Python, but when you're doing it at the same time your trying to kill future development of VB.Net... it doesn't add up.

  25. #25
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    There are plenty of languages brought under the umbrella of VS. It's a good IDE. Why would MS not want to cast the widest net to get more and more developers working in their ecosystem?
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  26. #26
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    I don't understand the Python juggernaut myself but it is what it is, I don't think they can ignore it.

  27. #27
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    will say that, if MS are dropping VB.Net, it seems like an odd decision to me.
    I agree with pretty much everything you both said. But I think we have a slightly different base perspective. I wouldn't have any problem with C# getting the shiny new stuff and VB getting them a little later... but that's not my understanding of what's happening. Various statements form Microsoft PM's indicate that ONLY C# will get the shiny new stuff (cross platform, .Net Core Web, etc.) and VB will primarily be incorporated for ONLY legacy uses (i.e. Windows based apps).
    My Understanding is this

    Xamarin is C# only and is unlikely to ever get VB.Net support.

    .Net Core has VB.Net support for Winforms, WPF and console apps, but nothing web, if you want to do a web app in .net Core your only option is C# and is likely to remain that way.

    So all the existing stuff will continue to work as well as desktop stuff in .Net core, but if you want to go web or mobile with shiny new MS tools then your only choice is C#.

    There's no reason to eliminate VB.Net as a viable language for writing cross platform (Mac, IOS, Android, Linux, etc.) and new Web apps. THAT is just B.S.
    They have reasons and from what i have read most of them are around cost and speed. With only one language to support they can iterate faster, and it costs less.

    You might not like that position but that it seems is what MS has decided and what your going to have to get used to as its unlikely to change.
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  28. #28
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    Re: For those interested in keeping VB.Net a first class .Net language.

    Thread's too long for me to read each and every post... so I'll just start with this...

    I don't know why people are in such a panic over the "dropping" of VB.NET as a first-class language. It's not like this is new news. If I remember right, this was something that was announced a couple years ago. I'm pretty sure I was at my previous employer when that came out - and I left there two years ago. It was the reason that a lot of us started to use C# in our day to day work when we could. It's a driving factor as to why I got out of the MS stack all together.I saw the writting on the wall and decided it was time to evolve and learn some new tricks. One of the best decisions I've ever made.

    Here's the good news... Vb.NET is pretty much frozen as far as features are concerned... which means you can install VS2019 and be done with it. Like with VB6, it's feature done, and there's nothing more new to learn. Also like VB6, it doesn't mean the end of it, it just means it won't be maintained further. But, lik VB6 it will continue to work for years to come. So, the way I see it, you have the same decisions before you that VB6 developers have before them - evolve and learn something new, or sick with what you know and try to ride it out for the next decade. I suppose you also have a third choice to whine, *****, and moan about it, but also like VB6, no amount of that or letter writting is going to change the decision made (years ago) regarding the future of VB.NET.

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