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Thread: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

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    The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic


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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Yeah, nice article, but not a question, so it is better here.
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    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    VB, if it is dead or dying is doing an amazing job of being seemingly very alive. VB6 is still very usable and despite MS almost actively trying to kill it, is surprisingly good. If today I managed to write a compiler and interpreter that implemented BASIC as well as VB6 and in addition bundled in such a good IDE, I would think my product was the dog's testicles (link - https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...27s%20Bollocks)

    Other companies/groups are trying to build IDEs as good as that which VB6 already sports. VB6 has a natural home in ReactOS, that FOSS o/s that will be ready (we hope) by the time that Microsoft gets around to killing the platform that VB6 runs upon.

    I predict that Windows will die before VB6 does.

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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    I predict that Windows will die before VB6 does.
    I'll admit that VB6 continues to surprise me by not disappearing but I think you're really reaching on that one. VB6 runs on windows, unless you're talking about some platform independent clone... but that wouldn't be VB6.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Yeah, I'd say they'd die at exactly the same time.
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    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I'll admit that VB6 continues to surprise me by not disappearing but I think you're really reaching on that one. VB6 runs on windows, unless you're talking about some platform independent clone... but that wouldn't be VB6.
    You DO know about ReactOS surely?

    VB5 runs on it already, proven, tried and tested, installs, IDE runs and compiles a simple program. VB6 not yet managed to install but it has been tried. I haven't attempted it recently but intending to retry on the next release, ReactOS stability and functionality is increasing rapidly and although it is still beta, there is a list of programs that currently run and VB5 is on that list.



    So, my prediction that Windows will die before VB6 - or perhaps that VB6 may outlast Windows in its current form - is quite possible.

    https://reactos.org/forum/viewtopic....t=1125#p130485
    Last edited by yereverluvinuncleber; Jun 27th, 2019 at 10:00 AM. Reason: Images and link

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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Where does Python fit into the picture?

    It seems that in Windows 10 19H1 just typing "Python" at the command line takes you to what's left of the Microsoft App Store to download an approved interpreter build and tools.

    Might we see a day soon where VBA is phased out for Python in MS Office? "PowerShell" gone replaced by some Linuxy "terminal" wrapped around these sorts of shell scripting languages?

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    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    That doesn't worry me in the least, the more languages the better, as long as VB6 can run on something I will be happy. VB isn't going to die from MS office soon from having thousands upon thousands of implementations. MS doesn't like annoying its business customers so that'll survive for a while yet (the foreseeable future?)

    Eventually someone WILL come out with something that functions like VB in some respects and we'll have a platform (Reactos) and something to code in (Rad basic or PrimeDivine's .NET solution) if we are :

    a. lucky
    b. optimistic

    and

    c. someone makes it happen.

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    PowerPoster jdc2000's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    dilettante -

    A Python link that may be of interest:

    https://www.techrepublic.com/article...ution-problem/

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    College Grad!!! Jacob Roman's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Im amazed noone attempted to make a mobile version of VB6 for iOS and Android in this day and age of 2019 that compiles

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    That doesn't worry me in the least, the more languages the better, as long as VB6 can run on something I will be happy. VB isn't going to die from MS office soon from having thousands upon thousands of implementations. MS doesn't like annoying its business customers so that'll survive for a while yet (the foreseeable future?)

    Eventually someone WILL come out with something that functions like VB in some respects and we'll have a platform (Reactos) and something to code in (Rad basic or PrimeDivine's .NET solution) if we are :

    a. lucky
    b. optimistic

    and

    c. someone makes it happen.
    Why?

    I can understand the people who have huge projects in VB6 not wanting to port to a different language, but you aren't suggesting that this will be something that necessarily will simply run a large, Windows-based, existing, VB6 application. You seem to be suggesting that this will allow new development, at which point....well, what IS the point? VB6 was a fine language for its time. The VB6 IDE was a fine IDE for its time. VB6 is generations out of date, and the VB6 IDE is pathetic, by the standards you find pretty much everywhere. If you aren't trying to maintain something existing....just move on. It wasn't THAT great.
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    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    I don't see your point.

    Why? Why not?

    ReactOS will run all windows apps, eventually. VB6, the IDE, .FRED, whatever.
    VB6 is a fine IDE. I'd use VB6 and the IDE all the time regardless of improvements elsewhere. I like it. I don't know the others and I don't really care to.

    Damnit, I drive a Triumph Spitfire and a BSA, don't ask me to explain why, it is simply because I choose to (among many other reasons). ReactOS will be a good home for VB6 and anything else and if someone comes up with a VB7 and an improved IDE, I will use it.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    A buddy of mine just bought a Spitfire a couple years back. They're tiny cars, but they are pretty cool. Meanwhile, the VB6 IDE is archaic. I just had to use it last week for the first time in a decade. Pain in the arse, as far as I'm concerned. However, that gets at my problem with the whole VB6 thing: Everybody wants something different. I find the IDE painful, you think it's fine. Would you still use it if it was the same language, but had the VS2017 IDE? Perhaps you would, perhaps you wouldn't. Most people say, "bring back VB6....with just this ONE added feature." They all pick different features to add, though, which guarantees that ANY replacement will disappoint the majority of the aficionados because they didn't get the flavor they wanted.

    And that's why not. There aren't that many steam punk people out there, but the ones that ARE out there are pretty vocal. So, since you are bound to piss off the majority of them, then nothing will change if a new version of VB6 ever did come out. Most people moved on. What's left are those who did not for a very specific reason. What reason varies from person to person, but it is a reason that is sufficiently important to them that they have stuck with a language that was last updated over twenty years back. So, this is really a great pastime for those who like to kick nests of already angry hornets.
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Yeah, I used to think the VB6 IDE was just wonderful and I loved it. But that was over 20 years ago and now when I have to do some work on one of my old VB6 programs I can't wait to be finished. The old VB6 IDE is so out dated, it really is a pain in the arse to use. But hey, if someone else enjoys using it, that's fine with me.

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    College Grad!!! Jacob Roman's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    I was serious when I said I should port it over to Android

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    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    The thing is I have no experience of anything else. The VB6 IDE feels great. It is really quick on my limited hardware, it does everything I've wanted an environment to do. I've been coding in .js for the last few years and I've made RJTextEd as my programmer's editor of choice. It is good, it has tabs, better search and replace than VB6's IDE, it has line numbers, code folding and all the rest but it still isn't as good a place to code as the VB6 IDE. Previously, I used Frontpage, Dreamweaver and other HTML editors to do layout and used tools like Xwidget that a developer worked on for years to produce a sub-standard IDE that was only a pale shadow of VB6's IDE.

    So, think of my Spittie as my VB6. It gets me there, I am familiar with it, it starts and it runs well.
    It looks quite good and it produces impressive results. I can fix it myself. When you've come from the environment I've been using for the last few years, VB6 feels like a pleasant leg-up, an improvement. An interpreter, a debugger, stop and continue, stepping through the code line by line, a compiler and by golly it is quick to start and quick to compile.

    It is still good. Leave my spittie alone and let me use it if I want. I'm just getting in my stride.

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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Yay! Another VB6 vs the world thread. How can this possibly go wrong

    You DO know about ReactOS surely?
    I'm dimly aware of it but not particularly bothered by it. I tend to be leery of the Open Source model as I've had too much pain from it in the past. And I tend to get worried when I see things like this: "ReactOS will run all windows apps, eventually." Come back to me when eventually = now and I'll be interested. Until then I want something that just works with as little input from me as possible.

    Which, I think, is rather like your attitude to VB6. You're not looking for new bells and whistles and you've already become comfortable enough with it's shortcomings to not notice them any more. The sponge may have worn in your spitfire's seats but it exactly matches your ass-groove.

    I'm curious about your age. Not meant to be a comment on VB6 users but rather on how our attitudes change as we get older. I remember myself 20 years ago and I was all about trying out every new thing I could find. I played with every new idea Java brought out, even though most of them were pretty crap back then. I fought like a dog to get my managers to commission VB.Net projects rather than 6 so I could dive into it. And I moved from there to C# just as soon as I could. Every new piece of syntactic sugar had the capacity to send me into paroxysm of bliss.

    Then, some time around the 2010 mark, as more and more dev moved to web and mobile instead of the desktop, I looked at it all and sighed, "you know what, I just can't be arsed". The love of new toys had fled and I just wanted to be left alone to have fun with the ones I already had. Even though the dev tools for web were demonstrably FAR superior to anything I'd had I just couldn't bring myself to care. I wonder if I'm you, just running a bit further behind on the curve.

    Since then I've mainly done middle tier and database stuff. 90% the latter. SQL never changes and it will always be in demand. I'm finally home and safe.


    ...and then some B******d comes up with NoSQL databases.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Jun 28th, 2019 at 02:42 AM.
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    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    You have me bang to rights...

    The element of competition and "keeping up with the Joneses" is just not in me.

    I know some good stuff and I want to explore my existing knowledge rather than picking up new knowledge that I can never really attain 100%. The idea of keeping up with Microsoft's current wave of changes with regard to platforms, languages, GUIs and o/s is just not in my field of vision. I knew VB6 in the deep past, for some reason it is still here, seems to have more of a future than I thought it would, so I am picking it up again and having fun. You've seen my two recent projects? (Firestrike and the Rocketdock settings tool?) Those show you can still knock up a half-decent app using VB6 and so why not? I couldn't do it in .FRED and most likely the slow speed of the current IDE, the language/syntax changes, Microsoft's patronising attitude "we are just making your system all awesome", the unfamiliarity of the IDE would soon piss me off and being forced to re-learn it after MS makes another corporate shift - again - would be the final nail in the coffin. I am no evangelist for VB6, it just seems to work better than I remember.

    Fundamentally, it seems to me that one's programming skills and style are applicable to any language/environment you choose to operate in. The VB6 IDE feels like 'home' to me.

    Why ReactOS? Well, I am an evangelist for alternatives to Microsoft and although that o/s is not yet usable, I have been watching it daily for the last 10 years or so and it is getting there and the community is active/positive.

    Re: VB in general, strangely enough for an anti-Microsoft evangelist I find myself proposing a Microsoft product (VB6) as an alternative... how strange is that.

    I was coding in 1979/80 so that gives you an idea of my age... (the thought of that depresses me). British, English, living in Norfolk in a house built in the 1650s. Dog, three cats, three kids, Spittie, BSA, Jag, wife, in that order. That's sums me up.

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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    You've seen my two recent projects?
    Were they the ones you were posting screenies of a while back? Kind of a steam punk widgits thing? Or is that my memory playing tricks. If it was I thought they looked pretty cool but your thread didn't seem to get much love, sadly.

    the unfamiliarity of the IDE
    There's the crux

    I was coding in 1979/80 so that gives you an idea of my age
    Yeah, sounds like I'm about 10 years behind you so that would pretty much pan out. I went to uni as a mature student and came out in 91.


    edit> Correction, no I didn't. I came out in 2001 so 20 years behind you. Brain fart!

    Jag
    Me too. XType for the classic shape but want to swap it out for a XF or XE soon. Would love an XK but it's just not practical, sadly.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    My one comment is: Spittie????
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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Spitfire.

    Or a temporary solution to a chesty cough.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    BTW, I know you're talking about a Triumph, but check out what Morgan do when they make a "Spitfire":-
    Name:  Spitfire.jpg
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  23. #23
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    I'm not a car fancier and don't even subscribe to Car Fancier magazine. So don't be surprised that it puts me in mind of the (probably very different) car driven in the title sequence of The Prisoner.

  24. #24
    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Are you VB6? I am VB5.

    I am not a number, I am a VB6-er, I am a Free MAN!


  25. #25
    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Were they the ones you were posting screenies of a while back? Kind of a steam punk widgits thing? Or is that my memory playing tricks. If it was I thought they looked pretty cool but your thread didn't seem to get much love, sadly.
    My recent VB6 projects were:

    http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...gs-Enhancement

    and

    http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...tware&p=538636

    The first is being completed, the second is a labour of love.

    I have plenty of other javascript projects on the go (all those steampunk designs you briefly saw) but these are my only two VB6 projects.

    PS. A Spittie is always a Spitfire (Triumph) and a Jag is a Jaaaaag. (1967 MkII)

  26. #26
    College Grad!!! Jacob Roman's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Soooooo we talking bout cars or VB6 here? ROFL

  27. #27
    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Well both the cars and the IDE are both obsolete so there is some commonality.

  28. #28
    College Grad!!! Jacob Roman's Avatar
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    Re: The Rise and Fall of Visual Basic

    Now I should reeeeeally make a VB6 IDE on Android devices using Android Studio

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