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Thread: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

  1. #41
    Fanatic Member TTn's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RipVoidWinkle View Post
    Yes, my projects are small and I made it clear that I understand the complexity of migrating legacy code.
    For me, it came down to having to use Win8 at work, so I had to move to VB 2005 many years ago.

    But, if you think VB6 can do everything .NET can ....you are missing the OOP paradigm.
    I'm not really sure you know what that means in this context. No offense. You had thought that VB6 didn't run on newer OS. This is absolutely false. You simply didn't uncheck the additional options during setup, and that caused installation to fail, for you.

    Expert programmers will be utilizing the most efficient tool to do the job, whether that is VB6 or VB.NET. There is no room to polarize one way or the other, when efficiency for the individual is the dominant factor.

    VB6 is an underutilized OOP language, however there may be web related features in vb.net that supercede VB6's web features.

    In fact, there are things that VB6 can do that VB.NET cannot do, ever. For example, when making an unattended OS CD a VB6 application will "just work" early before the .NET framework has had a chance to install. In general over time, VB6 has been more robust with a close relationship to VBA and VBscript. This direct relationship with VBA and Office is another reason why VB6 will not die anytime soon.

    Speed is also a factor that VB.NET cannot duplicate, and as it turns out this can cause security issues in the application if designed in VB.NET, while the same application designed in VB6 does not have the same delay issues that cause this type of vulnerability.

  2. #42
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    My main concerns with .NET languages are:
    - Poor performance (Although they claim that JIT (Just In Time) compiler is much better now and rivals native compilation!!!)
    - Decomplie to the source is a breeze even when using the most sophisticated obfuscation tool.
    Last edited by labmany; Dec 9th, 2018 at 01:46 PM.

  3. #43

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    One feature of VB.NET that I like is the entire Collections class. Lists and Dictionaries, for example.
    Sure one mimic that functionality by redimming multiple arrays or whatever, but that's just messy, even if it works.

    One can also ride to work on a unicycle, that does not mean it is a preferred method.

  4. #44
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    The implementation inheritance isn't used in COM (and VB6 too). COM provides the other methods of code reusing. You can use containment/delegation from "out-of-box". The aggregation is implicitly used in the UserControls but you can implement it using the Lightweight-objects (as Olaf mentioned).

    Let's see to C. It has no OOP at all but Windows and Linux kernels is written on C and they are object-based kernels, work and are supported/improvemented without the problems.

  5. #45
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    I don't think there is a true advantage to one over the other. I prefer OOP as it is found in .NET (I agree there can be other flavors, and even VB6 has an optional flavor), and it sounds like the OP does, as well. That's just how it is. I've met people who can't understand OOP, or take a long time to learn it, and people who take to it like a fish to water. That's just differences between people. I didn't realize anybody cared about languages until axisdj started posting about it in General Developer (MANY years ago, by now). As far as I was concerned, they were just tools with different colored handles. I might have a preference for color (blue....no, yellow!...(actually, neither one, but whenever you mention color preference...)), but not enough to really care.

    However, I'd like to second what axisdj just posted. I wasn't fully into interfaces until recently. Sure, I used them, and always understood them, but I just recently came to understand how truly useful they are. However, I still have found nobody who can really articulate that usefulness, and I'm certainly one who can't. Heck, I'm so unable to articulate the value that I can't even tell whether axisdj is even talking about the same thing, though he probably is. I don't think interfaces matter for small programs, but for anything larger, every class (aside from those used ONLY inside another class) should have an interface. Where that interface should be defined is a whole different matter, though, which depends on the project.

    Whether or not that really has anything to say about OO, I can't quite say. You can do effective runtime polymorphism with interfaces, though you may not gain any value from doing so. Still, OO may be the path that people use to get to interfaces, and OO has value in those small, disposable, LOB apps where interfaces don't have much value.
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  6. #46
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RipVoidWinkle View Post
    One feature of VB.NET that I like is the entire Collections class. Lists and Dictionaries, for example.
    Sure one mimic that functionality by redimming multiple arrays or whatever, but that's just messy, even if it works.

    One can also ride to work on a unicycle, that does not mean it is a preferred method.
    I wouldn't talk about the Collections class. The key is generics.

    @Olaf: If you want to try something out for comparison, write a List(of T) for VB6. People would likely LOVE it if you got that. I wouldn't put it in with anything else (in case you already have written such a thing), because people would want it without any other strings attached. Once the List(of T) was added to .NET in 2005, it probably became the most widely used addition. I doubt there are many programs much larger than Hello World that don't make use of a List(of T). Furthermore, you don't need anybody else to make the first move, cause MS already did. So, come up with a good VB6 version of List(of T), make it a stand-alone addition, and people will likely be thrilled. You can then compare the performance of your List(of T) to the one in .NET and talk up the advantages. Everybody wins.
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    The key is generics.

    @Olaf: If you want to try something out for comparison, write a List(of T) for VB6.
    I don't have to (write anything) - because "a List of specific Types" can be implemented and used in VB6 in dozens of different ways...:
    - some with very sparse code - suitable for 95% of the cases, where performance is not of importance (because the lists are short)
    - and some with very good performance - but more implementation-code (but then probably outperforming an equivalent .NET-solution).

    Again - it's you who seems to be of the opinion, that a "List(of T)" is (somehow) "badly needed - and hard to do in VB6" (whereas we do know, how to implement the concept) -
    so I can (again) only encourage you, to provide a practical example which makes use of it to the utmost - and then wait for the (functional identical) VB6-implementation.

    See - there is one existing "big App" which does utilize the .NET-framework with "all bells and whistles" (one, which I have in daily use) -
    and it's the SMS (SQLServer-Magagement-Studio) - and this App (which once was "flying" a few years ago ... at the time its implementation was still COM-based),
    is now just a "daily annoyance" to me, everytime I have to start it up.

    So, what I see there (in this .NET-App) is apparently "usage of List(of T's)" in abundance - and the result is very dissatisfying to me.

    Guess the ball is in your field again...

    Olaf

  8. #48
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    I don't have to (write anything) - because "a List of specific Types" can be implemented and used in VB6 in dozens of different ways...:
    Of course it CAN be implemented. I wasn't suggesting that it couldn't be. I was suggesting that you should create a class that works like the List(of T), where you can supply the type and get all that functionality. After all, you could write that functionality in .NET without using the List(of T), but nobody does because the List(of T) is there to be used. What I am suggesting is that you write that component for VB6.

    The reason would be multiple. For one, if somebody can reference your component, then write these lines:

    dim someList As New OlafsList(of Integer)
    dim someOtherList As New OlafsList(of SomeOtherType)

    with syntax like that, or reasonably similar, then they'd likely be quite happy with that. As it stands, doing the same kinds of things, such as Add, Insert, Remove, RemoveAt, Sort, and so on, along with efficient memory usage, then people would probably be thrilled to use it, just as the List(of T) is so ubiquitous in .NET once it was added.
    - some with very sparse code - suitable for 95% of the cases, where performance is not of importance (because the lists are short)
    The length of code in the component doesn't matter. What people want to do is to be able to write it in one line, as shown.

    - and some with very good performance - but more implementation-code (but then probably outperforming an equivalent .NET-solution).
    And that's the other reason, since you really care about that. Nobody is all that interested in spending the time to write some significant piece of code for the sole purpose of "creating something that can't be created in VB6". That sounds like creating "records to break record players": It's only worth doing in theory, not in practice. But you've asked for this kind of a challenge repeatedly, so create your own challenge. Here's a component that would be valuable, write your own and see how the performance compares. For example, you could write something that replicates something simple like this:
    Code:
    Dim someList As New List(of Integer)
    
    For x = 0 To 100000
     someList.Add(x Mod 3)
    Next
    
    someList.RemoveAt(4000)
    
    someList.Sort()
    Then you could compare the performance between your version and the .NET version. You'd have your challenge, and nobody would have to have spent more time (aside from my time writing this, but I'm just goofing off).
    Again - it's you who seems to be of the opinion, that a "List(of T)" is (somehow) "badly needed - and hard to do in VB6" (whereas we do know, how to implement the concept) -
    so I can (again) only encourage you, to provide a practical example which makes use of it to the utmost - and then wait for the (functional identical) VB6-implementation.
    Why did you use the quotes? Who were you quoting? I have no idea what is "badly needed" in VB6, and I really don't know whether or not a List(of T) would be hard to do. Everything other than the "of T" part could take some significant code, but is entirely tractable. I'm not sure if the "of T" part is possible or not.

    As for me supplying something....I've got enough time to write a few posts, but I can't imagine writing a useful piece of code solely to provide a challenge. I've never participated in the coding challenges on this forum. I suppose I could supply some kind of working code, but there isn't much point in writing a LOB application that is solely existing to be difficult to replicate. Most useful code is pretty simple for ANY language. When it comes to comparing performance, that's always an interesting subject, but while comparing simple things is easy, comparing non-trivial tasks is really not. For example, I wrote a genetic algorithm in both VB6 then again in VB.NET. That's not a very big thing, but it isn't trivial, and both run long enough to meaningfully measure. The programs weren't really the same, as the .NET version used classes, while the VB6 version did not. There was no noticeable difference in generation time, but the two were only similar, so I wouldn't say that it mattered.
    Guess the ball is in your field again...
    The ball has never been in my field. You have your challenge, you just can't get anybody else to care. You've been trying to get people to write something you can compare to for years, if I remember right. You now have that snippet of code. Write something in VB6 that does what that snippet does, compare the performance....and then try to get somebody to care. After all, I have the same objection to LINQ. It's demonstrably slower, so why do people use it? They use it because they can write one line that does what takes me six lines. Those six lines are faster, but modern computers spend most of their time waiting for us to take action, so the performance difference is technically 0 in most situations, at which point, it's hard to argue that the one line is worse than the six.
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    What prompted this thread anyway?

    Boredom? That fading status of VB.Net? The rapidly approaching deprecation of .Net as a whole?

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RipVoidWinkle View Post
    You can call me a troll, or you can actually answer which OS you are running?
    Question is still open. What version of Windows did VB6 stop working with ?
    I think it was Win 8. Does that mean everyone here is running Win 7 at work ?
    Real question. How does the IT dept allow for that ? Security issues, deployment issues, etc.
    Sorry Rip guy, this sentence just proves you don't know what you are talking about. Enough said
    Carlos

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    But you've asked for this kind of a challenge repeatedly, so create your own challenge.
    Why should I create "my own challenge" - when I did these comparisons already (years ago).
    You seem to be under the impression, that I did not do thorough tests with .NET when it came out -
    (or that I don't know the concept behind generics)... or that I'm a "single language guy".

    It's you .NETers who seem to think, that VB6 is missing anything (other than "assured long-term-support" from the vendor).
    Your mentioning of "List(of T's)" is a good example for that.

    Vb6 does have support for that (if you use the right helper-lib, or the right implementation-approach).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    For example, you could write something that replicates something simple like this:
    Code:
    Dim someList As New List(of Integer)
    
    For x = 0 To 100000
     someList.Add(x Mod 3)
    Next
    
    someList.RemoveAt(4000)
    
    someList.Sort()
    Ok - finally something - and here's the VB6-version.
    Code:
      Set someList = New_c.ArrayList(vbLong)
      
      For x = 0 To 100000
        someList.Add x Mod 3
      Next
      
      someList.Remove 4000
      someList.Sort
    Nice, isn't it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    As for me supplying something....I've got enough time to write a few posts, but I can't imagine writing a useful piece of code solely to provide a challenge.
    That's not my (or our) problem then - because in this case - you'll just have to let my reply to you stand as it is (without being any wiser).

    Which was, that VB6 has enough stuff "on board" (or in free available helper-libs), to address all problems, your List of T's are helping to solve in .NET.

    Again, it's not us who have to prove anything.
    We just have to tell you, that your claims of ".NET-superiority" (in case you make them) are wrong - nothing more ...
    (leaving the issue "hanging", so to say).

    You want to convince us, that we are "delusional"? ... then you provide the example to underline your claim.
    It really is that easy.

    Olaf

  12. #52
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    Why should I create "my own challenge" - when I did these comparisons already (years ago).
    You seem to be under the impression, that I did not do thorough tests with .NET when it came out -
    (or that I don't know the concept behind generics)... or that I'm a "single language guy".
    I'm under no such impression. I can't say I ever really cared. Still, why did you do thorough tests with .NET? Was that back in 2002? What were you testing for? What kinds of tests? What did you conclude from the tests? Have you looked again (a comparison prior to 2005 is...probably misleading)?
    It's you .NETers who seem to think, that VB6 is missing anything (other than "assured long-term-support" from the vendor).
    Your mentioning of "List(of T's)" is a good example for that.

    Vb6 does have support for that (if you use the right helper-lib, or the right implementation-approach).
    Well, I certainly don't pay attention to what is in the language and what isn't. Still, since you mention it, which library adds a List(of T)? I don't really care about other generics, as they are so infrequently used.


    Ok - finally something - and here's the VB6-version.
    Code:
      Set someList = New_c.ArrayList(vbLong)
      
      For x = 0 To 100000
        someList.Add x Mod 3
      Next
      
      someList.Remove 4000
      someList.Sort
    Nice, isn't it.
    What is c, in that code? There were ArrayLists in early .NET. They are still around, they just shouldn't be used. I don't remember them being in VB6, but then again, you appear to be using something different. I can't really look it up, as it stands, without knowing what c is.


    You want to convince us, that we are "delusional"? ... then you provide the example to underline your claim.
    It really is that easy.

    Olaf
    Actually, nobody needs to. You quoted a few things that nobody had said, now you added that bit about
    your claims of ".NET-superiority" (in case you make them)
    , and this part about me (or us, since "You" is ambiguous") wanting to convince you that you are delusional.

    I suppose you could just call that defensive, rather than delusional. It's not a good position to stand on. Nobody should care which language they use. There's a right choice for each person in each situation, and that's the one you should use, whatever it is. However, the threat of threads like this is that the term "trolling" came from fishing, not from the idea of a troll. It was about casting bait into the water in hopes of getting a bite. If everybody ignored the bait...the fisherman would leave.
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  13. #53
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    ...why did you do thorough tests with .NET?
    To find out, if we were missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    What kinds of tests?
    All kinds (performance - ease of implementation - Debugging things - Form-Designer-usage).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    What did you conclude from the tests?
    That potential porting-efforts to an (identical) .NET-based version of our Main-VB6-App would be a waste of development-time.

    Now, that "the Web is the new thing to port to" - we are quite happy we did not waste any money and resources on .NET in a pointless "intermediate step".

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Still, since you mention it, which library adds a List(of T)?
    The New_c.ArrayList thingy you've seen in my VB6-code, is part of the vbRichClient5-COM-lib.
    (though in the VB6-codebank, there's comparable Class-wrappers for stuff like that).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Nobody should care which language they use...
    Then what exactly did motivate you, to bring up generics and "List of T" into the discussion here?
    (if not to point out something, that might serve as a "hard to beat advantage of .NET over VB6")?

    We are in a VB6-forum here - of course we are "kind of defensive" when alleged advantages of other (primarily Desktop-)languages are brought up. <g>
    Just for the record - it was not me, who entered a discussion in the VB.NET forum - suggesting that "VB6 can do things .NET could never do".

    Let's just have our bit of fun, maahn...

    Olaf

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    Well, to be precise - it also does not mean, that the points were valid ones (unless there is proof).


    Again - I don't believe that your claim is true (because - so far - I've never seen a VB.NET App which could not be done in VB6 as well).
    Ok so how hard do you think it would be to write a VB6 app that allows for data collection and transmitting via TCP from a WCE4 based device? WCE5? WCE6? WCE7? Windows Mobile any version? This is some of the new and exciting stuff that was added to VB.Net early on. I have written dozens of these. Unfortunately they removed this support after VB2008 so the newer versions of VB.Net can not do it either.

    As for PC based apps I generally use VB6 though I have opted for VB.net on a few as they were more simple to write in VB.Net than they would have been in VB6. I'm sure they could have been completed in VB6 but would have taken a lot longer to develop this is not the case with most projects but is with some.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RipVoidWinkle View Post
    Does anyone here use VB6 on Win8 or Win10 ?
    What version of Windows does VB6 no longer work with?

    Now I remember why I was forced to upgrade from VB6
    I could not install VB6 anymore on Win8 machine.
    All machines at work went to Win8. Game over for VB6.
    Almost positive that was the reason.

    So, I moved to VB 2005 and had to make a few code tweaks.
    Everything in VB.NET is OOP.
    Once I did that, I just kept migrating to 2008 –> 2010 –> 2013 –>2015 –>2017
    which was a matter of Open/Save in each new version.

    I get the whole “it works for my needs, leave it”
    but am glad I don't have to jump through hoops to keep using a 20 year old IDE.
    For example, like not being able to run anything past Win7, which is now a 9 year old OS.
    I have installed it under Windows 8 and 10 and have used it under 10. I ditched 8 right away, never liked it.

    Anyway it is fairly simple to get VB6 to install under 8 or 10 but requires a little different method than on the older versions of Windows. Once properly installed it works fine and programs built in VB6 work fine under all versions of Windows from 95 to present and who knows how far into the future.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    Now, that "the Web is the new thing to port to" - we are quite happy we did not waste any money and resources on .NET in a pointless "intermediate step".
    I don't agree with that. "The Web is the new thing" is kind of like "Linux is the new thing". There are things that make sense on the web and things that don't make sense on the web. I don't expect that to change, as much as some folks are pushing it. However, even in the web, I've always felt that JS was half-baked. It arose in the early days, and has issues. WASM is essentially the replacement I always expected, but whether or not it lives up to that promise remains to be seen. After all, it may just lead to WASM performance for a JS engine, or not. Furthermore, it may be .NET in WASM, which is currently possible, but will be even more so, is a future. I'll be moving all my non-UI dlls over to .NET Core (no framework needed, no IL, etc.), which positions me for WASM down the road. You never can tell, but since that's not an MS-driven thing, they can't very well walk away from it (or, at least it wouldn't matter if they did).

    The New_c.ArrayList thingy you've seen in my VB6-code, is part of the vbRichClient5-COM-lib.
    (though in the VB6-codebank, there's comparable Class-wrappers for stuff like that).
    Ah, I thought it might be, but I'm not familiar with that. Can you pass in classes as arguments along with the VB constant you used in the example?

    Then what exactly did motivate you, to bring up generics and "List of T" into the discussion here?
    (if not to point out something, that might serve as a "hard to beat advantage of .NET over VB6")?
    You wanted a challenge. You've been asking for one for years. I don't believe anybody other than you is all that interested, so I tossed up something simple to describe, yet useful. Looks like you already took that one on, so it wasn't that good. Perhaps you could take on Tasks? It wouldn't be nearly as useful, but it would be a challenge. They aren't threads, remember. I wouldn't suggest LINQ, because I don't like LINQ.
    We are in a VB6-forum here - of course we are "kind of defensive" when alleged advantages of other (primarily Desktop-)languages are brought up. <g>
    Just for the record - it was not me, who entered a discussion in the VB.NET forum - suggesting that "VB6 can do things .NET could never do".

    Let's just have our bit of fun, maahn...

    Olaf
    I'm not sure what that discussion in the VB.NET forum is about. If there was one, I don't remember it. There were some in General Developer and Chit-Chat, but I may be misunderstanding you, too.

    It is certainly entertaining, which can be seen in the fact that the threads go on for so long compared to more serious threads. Somebodies feelings often end up getting hurt over something or other, eventually. Seemed to be going in that direction this time, too, though it's pulled back, perhaps for good.

    The same kind of debate went on between VB.NET and C#, though at a much cooler level, up through 2005. It pretty much died out after that, once MS declared that the feature sets would converge. It'll be interesting to see whether or not it flares back up now that MS has stated that the feature sets will diverge again.

    Anyways, it took over half an hour to write this due to a whole lot of cooking going on. It's a stressful time of year. I'm out for the night.
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    vbForums may be able to launch such a challenge: Use VB6 to re-implement all famous commercial software developed with dotNet.

    Maybe most people think this is a joke or crazy idea, but I think it is possible.

  18. #58
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    I have installed it under Windows 8 and 10 and have used it under 10. I ditched 8 right away, never liked it.

    Anyway it is fairly simple to get VB6 to install under 8 or 10 but requires a little different method than on the older versions of Windows. Once properly installed it works fine and programs built in VB6 work fine under all versions of Windows from 95 to present and who knows how far into the future.
    Same for me.
    Agree 100%.

    - At home I use Windows 10 Home (1809)
    - At work I use Windows 7 Pro SP1; also I use different virtual machines (VirtualBox/VMWare) each with different Windows versions to test my programs.

    No problem, for me.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    The future could be Flutter: Flutter on desktop, a real competitor to Electron.

    Not that I'm convinced.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    What is the special trick to correctly install VB6 on Win8+ ?
    I don't recall the error I came across anymore.
    Also,

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RipVoidWinkle View Post
    What is the special trick to correctly install VB6 on Win8+ ?
    I don't recall the error I came across anymore.
    Also,
    Also what?

    There is no 'special trick' to installing VB6. The issue is that the Microsoft installer wants to install Microsoft Virtual Machine for Java which is now discontinued. Most experienced VB6 users can work it out for themselves. But if you are really struggling I suggest using Gibra's installer to make it really simple for you. http://nuke.vbcorner.net/
    Last edited by VB6 Programming; Dec 10th, 2018 at 07:30 AM.

  22. #62
    Frenzied Member wqweto's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    Most experienced VB6 users can work it out for themselves.]
    Does Win10 require empty msjava.dll anymore in System32/SysWOW64 before starting setup.exe? Win8 did but I think they shimmed the installer in later Windows. . . YMMV

    cheers,
    </wqw>

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wqweto View Post
    Does Win10 require empty msjava.dll anymore in System32/SysWOW64 before starting setup.exe? Win8 did but I think they shimmed the installer in later Windows. . . YMMV

    cheers,
    </wqw>
    I've always either created an empty file or copied a genuine file across.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?


  25. #65
    PowerPoster Elroy's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    I wish Microsoft would just make an announcement that they forego any collection/enforcement of licensing fees for the VB6 IDE. It's a bit silly that they don't, but, for reasons not understood by me, it seems that they're still trying to kill it off without directly stating as much.

    If they actually did make such an announcement, we could openly talk about how to make portable (easily copy-able) versions of the VB6 IDE, which isn't a difficult thing to do.

    Take Care,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

  26. #66
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RipVoidWinkle View Post
    What is the special trick to correctly install VB6 on Win8+ ?
    I don't recall the error I came across anymore.
    Also,
    That depends on which version you have. When I tried to install the pro version from the VS6 disks I got an error related to the J++ or something of that nature. I downloaded the Enterprize edition of VB and did not get that message. The install hung at the end. There are a couple of ways around this. The most simple is to uncheck unneeded data features during install. I forget now what is there as it has been a while but seems like RDO needs to be unchecked. If you do a search there are lots of posts about getting VB6 and SP 6 installed under which ever OS.

  27. #67
    Fanatic Member TTn's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    I wish Microsoft would just make an announcement that they forego any collection/enforcement of licensing fees for the VB6 IDE.
    If they actually did make such an announcement, we could openly talk about how to make portable (easily copy-able) versions of the VB6 IDE, which isn't a difficult thing to do.
    Take Care,
    Elroy
    There is still hope though.
    http://summsoft.com/faq-about-vba-sdk-support/
    Effective July 1, 2015, Microsoft will no longer be requiring payment or reporting of royalties for those customers with VBA and/or VSTA Licenses.
    The last version was released in 2007 as Visual Basic 6.5.
    Since VB6 has an even older version of VBA embedded in it, I doubt they would enforce that part of the language now.
    Although, the intrinsic functions and tied features of VS6 may be something they want to keep locked up for whatever reason.

  28. #68
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    What prompted this thread anyway?

    Boredom? That fading status of VB.Net? The rapidly approaching deprecation of .Net as a whole?
    I don't care if the op is trolling, I'm enjoying the positivity about vb6 on this thread.

    I take the tiobe ratings with a pinch of salt but this month, they have vb.net in fifth position at more than twice the rating of c# and almost up with c++.

  29. #69
    Frenzied Member gibra's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    I've always either created an empty file or copied a genuine file across.
    This no longer work on latest version of Windows 10 (1803 and next) where the 'real' MSJAVA.DLL file is required.
    It's simple to extract, before to run setup.

    But, the Visual Studio 6.0 Enterprise Edition that you download from MSDN (a MSDN subsciption is need) it does not require anymore msjava.dll

  30. #70
    Frenzied Member wqweto's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gibra View Post
    But, the Visual Studio 6.0 Enterprise Edition that you download from MSDN (a MSDN subsciption is need) it does not require anymore msjava.dll
    That explains my experience, although I'm positive Enterprise Edition ISOs I'm using are downloaded 10+ years ago from MSDN subscription's download section.

    cheers,
    </wqw>

  31. #71
    PowerPoster Elroy's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTn View Post
    Since VB6 has an even older version of VBA embedded in it, I doubt they would enforce that part of the language now.
    Well, until Microsoft comes out with an explicit statement that they'll no longer enforce VB6 IDE licenses (including the OCX development licenses that come with it), I seriously doubt the VBForums moderators will let us discuss such things as making the IDE portable. In fact, I'm half-expecting to get my hand slapped for even mentioning it.

    Take Care,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

  32. #72
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    As I see it, it is not about legitimate reasons for using VB Classic.
    It is about heads of IT departments being afraid of being out of sync with Microsoft.
    You can't get in trouble if you are in sync.
    Just like the old mainframe days where everyone needed to be Big Blue.
    This issue (NET, etc.) is most probably linked more to revenue streams than any particular language.
    Got to sell new code, and supporting documentation to keep revenue coming in.

    With all the different languages IMHO VB Classic is the best.
    1) It is easily readable for maintenance purposes -- can pick up years later and make changes.
    2) Allows one to directly make API calls
    3) Doesn't hide a lot unlike some OPP languages.

  33. #73
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    Well, until Microsoft comes out with an explicit statement that they'll no longer enforce VB6 IDE licenses (including the OCX development licenses that come with it), I seriously doubt the VBForums moderators will let us discuss such things as making the IDE portable. In fact, I'm half-expecting to get my hand slapped for even mentioning it.

    Take Care,
    Elroy
    No, but you're essentially right. I don't understand why MS still has some things under lock and key, but it's not my call. As long as they hold that license so tightly, the forum AUP requires that we honor that position, regardless of whether or not we agree with it.

    I don't feel that MS will ever really open source VB6, because I think they'd feel obligated to do something, even if it were something quite minimal, as a consequence. What does surprise me a little is that they haven't made it a free download. There are likely some interesting legal issues surrounding that, and I no longer have any inside connection to know what those legal issues might be (if they even exist). VB6 was written in a time when MS was tying OS and app code together (i.e: IE), most likely in an attempt to lock people into Windows (most people lock doors, but MS is always a bit different). It may be the case that there is something buried in the VB6 source code which both, A) doesn't need to be there, and B) is something that MS doesn't want to give away.

    That may be totally wrong, too. I'm always struck by how companies can appear to have a personality, but a company is not a person. It's a bunch of people with a bunch of opinions, emotions, experiences, and so on, all pulling in slightly different directions. The direction of the company, even on something like VB6, is the sum of all those vectors. Often, it seems coherent, sometimes....not so much. So, it's always good to keep in mind that they may have a reason for not releasing VB6 for free....but then again, they may not.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  34. #74
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gibra View Post
    But, the Visual Studio 6.0 Enterprise Edition that you download from MSDN (a MSDN subsciption is need) it does not require anymore msjava.dll
    Yep that is what I did when I had an issue installing it from VS6 Pro. Since I was a subscriber I just went and downloaded the Ent. version from MS and used that one instead.

  35. #75
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    It may be the case that there is something buried in the VB6 source code which both, A) doesn't need to be there, and B) is something that MS doesn't want to give away.
    Totally agree here and I think you are NOT totally wrong.

  36. #76
    PowerPoster Elroy's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    No, but you're essentially right. I don't understand why MS still has some things under lock and key, but it's not my call. As long as they hold that license so tightly, the forum AUP requires that we honor that position, regardless of whether or not we agree with it.

    I don't feel that MS will ever really open source VB6, because I think they'd feel obligated to do something, even if it were something quite minimal, as a consequence. What does surprise me a little is that they haven't made it a free download. There are likely some interesting legal issues surrounding that, and I no longer have any inside connection to know what those legal issues might be (if they even exist). VB6 was written in a time when MS was tying OS and app code together (i.e: IE), most likely in an attempt to lock people into Windows (most people lock doors, but MS is always a bit different). It may be the case that there is something buried in the VB6 source code which both, A) doesn't need to be there, and B) is something that MS doesn't want to give away.

    That may be totally wrong, too. I'm always struck by how companies can appear to have a personality, but a company is not a person. It's a bunch of people with a bunch of opinions, emotions, experiences, and so on, all pulling in slightly different directions. The direction of the company, even on something like VB6, is the sum of all those vectors. Often, it seems coherent, sometimes....not so much. So, it's always good to keep in mind that they may have a reason for not releasing VB6 for free....but then again, they may not.
    Hi Shaggy,

    Well, just to comment a bit more. In this thread, I'm just doing a bit of wishful-thinking that they'd just release any licensing requirement (and not necessarily release it as open-source). Even that small step could potentially help us to get work done. If I just had that small step from Microsoft, I'd probably quickly develop a portable version of the VB6 IDE, and drop a copy on many of my clients' workstations. It's just sooo much easier to debug (when I'm on-site) when I can step through the source code to figure out how their mangled data is causing a runtime error.

    Also, if that were the case, we could possibly, more easily diagnose problems that various VBForums users have. But yeah yeah, I know we're not there. So, I'll shut up now about it.

    Take Care,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

  37. #77
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Here is an alternative way of bypassing the MS JVM requirement:



    Normally, the installation cannot proceed unless the Java checkbox is ticked.

    Name:  VB6 Setup 1.png
Views: 10522
Size:  35.9 KB

    However, if the Next button is forcibly enabled (using whatever method),

    Name:  VB6 Setup 2.png
Views: 10460
Size:  36.0 KB

    the installer will pop up this message after the now enabled Next button is clicked.

    Name:  VB6 Setup 3.png
Views: 10453
Size:  6.2 KB

    Just click OK to dismiss the message and installation can now continue.

    Name:  VB6 Setup 4.png
Views: 10442
Size:  42.2 KB


    EDIT

    Here's some code you can compile beforehand in case you don't have any utility that can enable/disable arbitrary windows:

    Code:
    Option Explicit 'In a standard (.BAS) module
    
    Private Declare Function EnableWindow Lib "user32.dll" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal bEnable As Long) As Long
    Private Declare Function FindWindowExW Lib "user32.dll" (Optional ByVal hWndParent As Long, Optional ByVal hWndChildAfter As Long, Optional ByVal lpszClass As Long, Optional ByVal lpszWindow As Long) As Long
    
    Private Sub Main()
        Dim hWnd As Long, sText As String
    
        sText = InputBox("Enter Window Title:", , "Installation Wizard for Visual Studio 6.0 Enterprise Edition")
        If LenB(sText) = 0& Then Exit Sub
    
        hWnd = FindWindowExW(, , StrPtr("#32770"), StrPtr(sText))
        If hWnd = 0& Then Exit Sub
    
        sText = InputBox("Enter Button Caption:", , "&Next >")
        If LenB(sText) = 0& Then Exit Sub
    
        hWnd = FindWindowExW(hWnd, , StrPtr("Button"), StrPtr(sText))
        If hWnd = 0& Then Exit Sub
    
        EnableWindow hWnd, -True
    End Sub
    Last edited by Victor Bravo VI; Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:01 AM.

  38. #78
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Yeah, I have never had to create any dummy file to get installation to proceed.

  39. #79
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    Hi Shaggy,

    Well, just to comment a bit more. In this thread, I'm just doing a bit of wishful-thinking that they'd just release any licensing requirement (and not necessarily release it as open-source). Even that small step could potentially help us to get work done. If I just had that small step from Microsoft, I'd probably quickly develop a portable version of the VB6 IDE, and drop a copy on many of my clients' workstations. It's just sooo much easier to debug (when I'm on-site) when I can step through the source code to figure out how their mangled data is causing a runtime error.

    Also, if that were the case, we could possibly, more easily diagnose problems that various VBForums users have. But yeah yeah, I know we're not there. So, I'll shut up now about it.

    Take Care,
    Elroy
    That's what I was thinking, too. Open source is not as simple as people sometimes think. Or, at least, it isn't so simple from a responsible source. What still has me a bit puzzled is the fact that you can still get VB6 from MS, but only through a costly subscription that essentially gives you pretty nearly everything. It seems to me that if you can still get it from them, then they could make it free. That likely isn't quite as simple as I'm thinking it would be, either. After all, while they give away VS for free, it isn't free to them. It isn't expensive to them, to be sure, but it isn't free. There's a web site and traffic. Perhaps it would be very cheap, but it wouldn't be free. If they totally don't care, then even a tiny cost isn't worth paying, and that may be all there is to it. I just don't know.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  40. #80
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    I suspect that a lot of things included with VB6 were licensed from 3rd parties, mostly controls. It might be a lot of trouble to get clearance to release them at this late date.

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