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Thread: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

  1. #1

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    SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    Hello. W7 64 bit.
    As indicated we have some new PC's we are setting up and they have SSD. When windows starts the service sometimes is not ready to start and stays closed.
    The service is required to start the main application of the computer.
    This is fixed with a restart (as, if I'm not wrong, the restart will have some resources remain open at w64) but the next time someone shuts down the PC and opens it, it will still (sometimes) have the service not starting.
    I have trying to set the service at restart, on the attempts windows give me to restart the service when failed but with no avail. Also I was thinking of a delayed start but this may make matters worst as the main program may not start.
    We have all the latest service packs set.I haven't yet tried to see any firmware updates on the PC or any specific driver updates on the brand of the PC.
    Any thoughts?

    Thanks.

    Edit. The service starts as Local System. So I suppose it has the "priority" on boot up. I was thinking if I lower the permissions to Local Service, maybe it will cope with it's co working application and start in dependence with. That is a very long shot of course.
    Last edited by sapator; Nov 19th, 2018 at 09:50 AM.
    Slow as hell.

  2. #2
    Fanatic Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    If you restart the computer then nothing should have any resources open, after all windows is shutting down completely.

    Things attached to the PC might still be running though so that could make a difference.

    More importantly if your service isn't starting are you logging any errors? If not perhaps you should.... Does your service (I am assuming it is your service) rely on external peripherals or other services to be started, if so it could be a race condition and you could either list them as a dependency or check to see if they are running before you attempt to use them.

    Other than that we might need a bit more detail about the service and what it is actually doing before we can help to diagnose the issue.

  3. #3
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    Check if you have "fast start" enabled. It's not really compatible with some older chipsets.

    oops... This was a Windows 10 issue. /disregard.

    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...6-32c2d2cb5e03
    Last edited by DEXWERX; Nov 19th, 2018 at 01:43 PM.

  4. #4

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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    Hi.
    No it is not my service.
    I don't have a lot of details, other that I get a log, on service failed to start.
    I think shutting down is different that restart. I didn't google something out but I recall there is a difference.
    The service works on any other PC fine but we got a latest bunch of SSD PC that they have the issue.
    So I'm guessing either the SSD is fast and does not let the service start or I need to update the firmware on PC's.
    Slow as hell.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    What is this service?

    I have an application that attempts a connection to SQL Server over a LAN. The computer with SQL Server is running, but roughly one in five attempts, after first starting the dev computer that the application runs on, SQL Server fails to respond. I asked about that on here, and somebody (I believe it was Techgnome) suggested just putting in a delay and trying again. That was such a simple thing to do, that it was the first thing I tried. The application attempts the connection, if it fails, it sleeps for 2-3 seconds, then attempts the connection a second time. This has worked really well.

    The situation sounds similar, though the service is a SQL Server running across a LAN. That system is on, though possibly sleeping. Still, the application tries for a service that isn't responsive, sleeps for a couple seconds, then tries again. That may not be possible for you, but it isn't clear whether it is or not, at this point.
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    I think he is saying the service itself, which he has no control over, is not starting on a power up. If that is true, perhaps a script that checks to see if the service is running before starting the application and attempting to start it if isn't. I do something similar for a mapped drive because for some reason it takes forever on my PC when it reboots. Check to see if mapping exist, wait 5 seconds and try again. Once it finally does, open my file on said mapped drive.

  7. #7

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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    Service is needed for a main app to look if it'a alive and start. It's an intercommunication service not SQL service.
    I say to my initial post that I was thinking of a delayed start. This might or might not work but we have this as a last resort. Along with completely remove the service and set the app to start serviceless. We can do that but we won't be able to update the terminals, as the service checks the main server for any file changes and will update accordingly. If we set to delay it might, again, might consider this a serviceless model and start updates terminals the it thinks they are the only one with new files. So we may lose files that way. Again, might, I haven't tested I do not know on what conditions to test this as there is no standard documentation on delay service start condition for the app. I can make a check and power up app but the thing is that I have set the service to start on 3 attempts on failure and yesterday another terminal fail to start. So maybe the app will get the finger or give other implications.

    So to sum it up. I think first I should find some firmware for the PC, if that does not work I should try a delayed start and if that does not work also, maybe a downgrade to 32 bit windows. At least for the time being and in some terminals for testing.
    Slow as hell.

  8. #8
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    I'm still unclear if the service ever starts or just crashes?

    It sounds like you're saying that the service crashes, with a log file, on first boot.
    It does work however on a restart.

    So waiting for the service from the main app, isn't really an option.


    Without knowing what the service is, or what the error is that is causing the crash, or an error log - it's very hard to debug.

    Considering how little we have to go on, my best guess is that hardware issues (is it a hardware issue?), that manifest only on cold boot are typically power related. Maybe disable sleep on the ethernet card, so it gets fully reset on cold boot.
    Last edited by DEXWERX; Nov 21st, 2018 at 08:58 AM.

  9. #9

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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    The service starts. Usually starts but sometimes not. No log file, just the event viewer.How will it log if it does not start?
    I'm not sure on the implications of the sleep mode. I have to look this up.
    Thanks.
    Slow as hell.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    I have no real control over whether the SQL Server service starts, so the situation is pretty similar....as long as the service does start eventually. If the service will NEVER start sometimes, then waiting won't help. However, it sounds like it WILL start, so the delay would likely work.
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    I've never really used one, so I don't know it's limitations, but this sound like a perfect job for a BackGroundWorker. Start it when the program start and let it run until it connects to the service, all you need is a Boolean to verify if the service is connected or not.

  12. #12

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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    Right.
    Thanks for all the observations will keep looking.
    Slow as hell.

  13. #13

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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    We have excluded that late start option as what we have experienced is that the service + the application will take a long time to start and the users will get anxious and start clicking on the application start icon on the desktop again and again and again. So we end up with a dozen of application threads.
    We are looking for firmware updates now...
    Slow as hell.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    We have excluded that late start option as what we have experienced is that the service + the application will take a long time to start and the users will get anxious and start clicking on the application start icon on the desktop again and again and again. So we end up with a dozen of application threads.
    We are looking for firmware updates now...
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Foiled by an impatient user!

    Sounds like a good time to have a splash screen. Get something up on the screen as fast as you can. As long as the user sees that, they'll believe something is happening, even if it isn't. I'm actually doing the same thing. The FIRST thing my program does is puts up a splash screen with a label showing progress. Most people won't even notice the delay between the two DB attempts when it happens, but I will.
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  15. #15

    Thread Starter
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    Well as I've said, this is not my application.
    Actually the app attempts to throw a splash screen but they have build it in a way that it first needs the service to start in order for any form to appear on screen.
    The users are trained and they know that the program will autostart but ever if you have a well trained user, you can't stop the anxiety.
    Can't stop can't stop the anxiety, Can't stop can't stop the anxietyyyyyy! Sorry I have less tolerance on fixing stupid this that waste may time but this needs to be fixed as we will be passing a couple of hundred of new machines next year and they are of the same time. So now we have a couple of these bugging out, can't imagine what I will do if a couple of hundred users start to complain. Probably start singing the good ol' anxiety song.
    Can't stop can't stop the anxiety, Can't stop can't stop the anxietyyyyyy!YEAH!
    Slow as hell.

  16. #16
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    One possible thought. Rename the original program to something else. Create a new program with the original name. Have this new program put up a slash screen and a progress bar and loop check that the required service has started until it's started and then execute the renamed original. It could also check that it's the only user instance of the program and if it's not bring to the front the previous instance and then exit itself. As this program is yours you can do what you want/need in it.
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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  17. #17

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    Re: SSD start fast and cannot open up service.

    I don't understand the suggestion.
    Why would I go to this much trouble for a new program that is not communicating with the service?
    The service will communicate with the original program but i believe it is not done by name. The service is just a pool or info that the original program needs to get data from. So it's not a name to name relation. I need to decompile the original program to find out how the communication works and I have absolutely no desire to do so as we are talking about a 10MB code program(that is only the exe, the rest is 200MB) that extends to a couple of hundred of thousand of coding rows.
    All in all, it would be better do delete the original program just to see if the service starts but again it will probably not matter as the service can run standalone and will just serve the info to memory and just wait.
    Slow as hell.

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