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Thread: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

  1. #81

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Yeah I enjoyed that race a lot. Max definitely pushed Leclerc off track so I was was very interested to see what the stewards would do. I wasn't surprised when they didn't do anything, hell with all of the thousands of Max fans that was there they probably wouldn't make it out alive. lol
    LOL, yeah a 1000 and more Drunk Dutch Fans in a Bad mood would have
    been a handful ..
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  2. #82
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    David Coulthard explained it nicely after the race: when they were entering the corner, Max was ahead (they looked level to me, but Max was on the side of the track nearest the corner), so Max was allowed to take any line thru the corner he wanted, and Charles had to put up with that and make his own decision about what to do in response to the line Max was taking. As Max's line was pretty obvious and he didn't deviate from it at all, the fact Charles got hit was his own choice - and he wouldn't have taken the chance if it had been a street circuit, because there would be no run-off area for him to use to escape.

    If Max had altered his line to make it happen then he would have been at fault, like Vettel was in Canada due to turning after getting back on track.

    As it apparently took 3 hours for the stewards to make a decision this time, it wasn't a clear-cut situation, and probably wouldn't have been biased by Max's "Orange Army" as they would have gone already.


    It was a good race to watch, and the fact Mercedes didn't do very well made it feel even better - it feels like there is a chance the championship could go on to the end of the season (or at least closer to it than we expected before this race).

    As Charles will be hungrier for it now (and has a good enough car to at least be close to the Merc's), he might get a few wins this season.

  3. #83

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I didn't really get it with the Stop from Vettel... where were the tires ?

    did he come in to soon or was it a mistake from the Box-Crew ?

    EDIT:
    wonder if he still could have got Bottas? I think the Stop took 4-5sec. longer than usual
    Last edited by ChrisE; Jul 2nd, 2019 at 04:03 AM.
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  4. #84
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I wasn't paying enough attention at the time, so didn't work out the cause... I just sighed due to seeing yet another basic error from them.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    si,

    Max was on the side of the track nearest the corner), so Max was allowed to take any line thru the corner he wanted, and Charles had to put up with that
    Is that an actual rule or an unwritten rule. Or just another opinion? Max had a choice, exit the corner high or exit the corner low. To me that's saying, if a car is on your outside in a corner then you got the right to hit him or run him off the track. Doesn't seem like a good way to promote side by side racing. But maybe F1 doesn't want side by side racing. Which I understand due to the dangers of open wheel cars. Really the cars have just gotten too wide for side by side racing through most corners. I wonder which is more feasible, widen some of the corners on F1 tracks or narrow the cars. I wouldn't mind a little slower car if it promoted better racing.

    Edit - DGMW (I just made that up "don't get me wrong" feel free to use it) I know I look at F1 from a different perspective. I was raised on NASCAR, but I due try to make allowances for the dangers inherent in the open wheel cars touching. I'm by no means a F1 purist and I don't really have any real emotional attachments, except a little for HAAS. So I'm just trying to give you point of view.
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Jul 2nd, 2019 at 02:54 PM.

  6. #86
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I'm not sure if it is an actual rule or an unwritten rule, but the drivers and commentators all make it sound as if it is an actual rule.

    I think in this case Max was a bit harsh (because being "ahead" was marginal), and most other drivers wouldn't have done the same on a corner with run-off. When there are barriers next to the track they pretty much all do it.

    There have been a few cases this year when two drivers have been next to each other for two or more corners (and the straights in between), and it can be great to watch... but it can also cause crashes quite easily, so the drivers prefer to find a way to get things done quickly instead, even if it means waiting for a few corners before they do it.


    Really the cars have just gotten too wide for side by side racing through most corners. I wonder which is more feasible, widen some of the corners on F1 tracks or narrow the cars. I wouldn't mind a little slower car if it promoted better racing.
    In recent years they raced in India, and the track was very wide in some places. It only made a marginal change, because the drivers are all aiming for the ideal line and going around the side of another driver means falling behind due to the longer route.

    I think the better racing will come in 2021 when the big rule changes happen. The new owners of F1 want to make the racing closer (including a big reduction in the aero affects of following another car), and they have great technical people working on the designs. As their minor alterations so far have had a decent effect, there is good reason to be hopeful.

  7. #87
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    So Hamilton won today... again. Bleh.

    BUT the real action was behind him. Verstappen and LeCleric battling it out was fun to watch. And then later when Vettel stuck his nose up in Verstappen's gearbox there at the end... holy heck! For a moment there I thought they were both going to be out of it after sliding into the gravel.

    Actually it was a pretty good weekend for open-wheel... F1 was interesting to watch for once... Formula-E had some excitement in their last 2 races for the season as the championship came down to the end. Indy had its moments too. There was a lot of people sticking their noses in places where it shouldn't be going on.

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  8. #88

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    So Hamilton won today... again. Bleh.

    BUT the real action was behind him. Verstappen and LeCleric battling it out was fun to watch. And then later when Vettel stuck his nose up in Verstappen's gearbox there at the end... holy heck! For a moment there I thought they were both going to be out of it after sliding into the gravel.

    Actually it was a pretty good weekend for open-wheel... F1 was interesting to watch for once... Formula-E had some excitement in their last 2 races for the season as the championship came down to the end. Indy had its moments too. There was a lot of people sticking their noses in places where it shouldn't be going on.

    -tg
    yeah, one of the better races to watch, wonder how long Ferrari is going to put up
    with Vettel's mistakes?
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Poor Bottas, Mercedes always seems to give him the worst choices when it comes to pit strategy. There was no need to commit him to a two stop race. Mercedes really has turned him into Hamiltons little helper. Ferrari blew it again by not pitting Leclerc under yellow, all they could think about was helping Vettel. Max drove a great race, glad to see Red Bull cars that are strong and competitive. Max seems to have really matured this year. Last year he would have forced the issue with Leclerc and probably wrecked both cars. Man it's hard to be a HAAS fan now a days. I don't see how that minor touch at the start of the race would take out both cars. Their just terrible lately.

    btw - If you want to see an exciting race finish watch the last two laps of the NASCAR Cup series race at Kentucky. The Bush brothers going Hammer and Tongs at each other.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post

    btw - If you want to see an exciting race finish watch the last two laps of the NASCAR Cup series race at Kentucky. The Bush brothers going Hammer and Tongs at each other.
    never checked out Nascar
    how would I be able to watch Nascar from Germany ? probably only with pay Tv
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
    never checked out Nascar
    how would I be able to watch Nascar from Germany ? probably only with pay Tv
    Don't know anything about how German TV works. Nascar does have an app that shows the races but I believe it costs. Never checked it out. Go to hteir web site, NASCAR.Com.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I was happy with Hamilton refusing to pit at the tail end when called in for a "free stop". No reason to turn a 21 second lead into a 2 or 3 second lead for the last few laps at that point...the fact that they called him in twice and he refused makes me wonder if they were just trying to make the finish more interesting or something...no coherent strategy to pitting there in my book. You could argue going for fastest lap, but the potential downside of a pitting issue, or blending issue, etc. more than outweighs a single point, especially with where the point standings already were.

  13. #93
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    There was some concern about the amount of life left in his tires. He was basically at the end of it. They wanted him to come in to ensure that his tires didn't shred or fall off on the last lap or two... but ultimately he was the one behind the wheel and so they left it up to him. He felt that things were running fine, there didn't seem to be any significant issues with them, and he was having a good run. And then he sets the fastest lap on the final lap of the race... I be that really pissed Bottas off... that was the reason they brought him in, was for the extra point of fast lap, gave him a fresh set of medium tires. And then Hamilton pulls that stunt on a pair of worn hard tires.


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  14. #94
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Maybe he could get points for style? After all, he had proper a-tire.
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    It was a very good race, lots of action all the way... right from Lewis against Bottas at the start, and mainly the various bits with Verstappen (particularly against LeClerc).

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Poor Bottas, Mercedes always seems to give him the worst choices when it comes to pit strategy. There was no need to commit him to a two stop race.
    At the time it was a good strategy... but the safety car after Bottas pitted played into Lewis's hands, particularly with the timing being perfect (if it had been one lap later, he would probably have been hurt by it in the same way as Bottas, and therefore stayed behind).

    Unfortunately Lando also got problems from the safety car too, and finished just outside the points (by 2 seconds), when he was looking likely get a few places higher. It's easy to make strategy mistakes if a safety car comes at the "wrong" time for you, and unfortunately my team (and others) made a mistake this time.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    si,

    I disagree, there was no need to put Bottas on the same compound tire which forced a two stop race. Really I think Hamilton should have been the one to come in first, to cover the Ferrari stop. The medium tire hadn't really been falling off yet.

  17. #97
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    The issue they had is that the track had been resurfaced since last year, and the tyre life was unknown - but it was predicted based on the practice sessions that a one-stop race would be marginal.

    As the safety car noticeably increases tyre life (due to reduced speeds for a decent period), it allowed people to go for a one-stop when they wouldn't have before. Lewis was one of the ones who got the chance, but even so the team could see it was marginal at the end.

    Giving Bottas the same compound tyre he started on doesn't seem like it was the best idea, but given the history the team has of making good decisions I'm sure their choice would have been good if the safety car hadn't been needed. In terms of when he pitted that would have been a decision between Bottas and his engineers, knowing that because Lewis was behind he was only allowed to make a decision after Bottas did.

    To us the decision doesn't look ideal, but I don't know if there are any regrets from them about it other than the timing of the safety car.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    si,

    It should be clear by now that Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull should all be asking me to make their strategy decisions because after watching the race I'm always able to make the right call with complete confidence.

    Just saying..... I'm available.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Gasly will be out of his seat during the summer break after next week's race in Hungary, that seems like a lock, even before his crash in practice today. McLaren stated a couple weeks ago that they would let Alonso race for a different team in F1 if he wanted to, so I'm still predicting a multiteam/multidriver shuffle will be in the works.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Mattia Binotto likely to be out as Ferrari Team Principal during the F1 summer break.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Wow! A race for the ages!

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I couldn't believe how many of the best drivers in the world all lost control of their cars on the same corner(not sure of the corner number 15/16). Some survived, some didn't. They just kept barreling into the corner and that corner just kept eating them up. Once they got off track into the standing water they were gone. I think that area was painted which makes it even slicker. Part of the drag strip or something. That was the most safety and virtual safety cars I've ever seen in a race.

    Hopefully the exciting race will take some of the focus away from the nightmare Ferrari had in qualifying. HAAS even managed not to shot themselves in the foot to badly, just some minor flesh wounds.
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Jul 29th, 2019 at 01:41 AM.

  23. #103

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    Wow! A race for the ages!
    +1 to that

    evan Vettel did everything right this time
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  24. #104

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    HAAS even managed not to shot themselves in the foot to badly, just some minor flesh wounds.
    I think Magnus. touched his Teammate again !
    the Man in charge should really act now
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  25. #105
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    That was a rather impressive race.

    It seems that over the weekend every driver had significant problems that would usually cost them points, but some managed to come out of it well. Ferrari messed up the cars for qualifying, but in the race their drivers did well (until LeClerc touched the drag strip) and Vettel even managed to finish 2nd having started 20th. Verstappen got the start badly wrong and lost lots of places, and even with a 360 spin later on he managed to win. Even tho Lewis had a bit of a nightmare in various ways, he still managed to get a couple of points (after another team were penalised for "use of driver aids at the start").

    Several of the drivers had never had a wet race before, so it was good to see most of them come out of it reasonably well.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    They just kept barreling into the corner and that corner just kept eating them up. Once they got off track into the standing water they were gone. I think that area was painted which makes it even slicker. Part of the drag strip or something.
    Over here they sent the commentator over after the race to show us what it was like there, and it turns out that the small amount of paint (between the two drag lanes) was the relatively high grip part, whereas the drag lanes themselves were coated in drag racing rubber, which apparently becomes incredibly slippery in the rain... anyone who touched it didn't have a chance, which is why about 30 of the advertising panels behind it got destroyed.

  26. #106
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Over here they sent the commentator over after the race to show us what it was like there, and it turns out that the small amount of paint (between the two drag lanes) was the relatively high grip par
    I can tell you from 20+ yrs of walking with crutches that painted asphalt is very slippery compared to bare asphalt. I don't doubt the other area may of had less traction. That area did have a different look to it compared to everywhere else.


    anyone who touched it didn't have a chance, which is why about 30 of the advertising panels behind it got destroyed.
    Poor Leclerc ended up with Mercedes panel laying across his car. lol
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Jul 29th, 2019 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Glad to see Max (Red Bull) starting to challenge Mercedes on a regular basis. Makes it more interesting.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Well Max gave it his best shot but could over come a brilliant strategy call and a great drive by Hamilton. Those two guys really showed they are the best drivers in F1. I couldn't believe they lapped up to 4th place. Don't know what was wrong with Ferrari but they wen't even in the same league as the leaders.

  29. #109

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    yes Max did a great job, I would love to see Max in the other Mercedes
    (or Lando Norris) IMO the two best Drivers are Max and Lewis, Lando will need
    another year or two
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  30. #110
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    That was a good race... it wasn't as exciting as the last few, but still better than an average race in recent years.

    I think it shows that the changes to the cars this year to promote overtaking have worked well, even before the big boost when the rules change properly for 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Don't know what was wrong with Ferrari but they wen't even in the same league as the leaders.
    This year the Ferrari is the best for power (they get the highest top speeds), but currently their downforce is poor so they aren't as good in the corners.

    Unfortunately the track in Hungary doesn't have any long straights, and the shorter ones are too short for power to help much, so the lap times are mainly about downforce. Luckily the next few tracks are power based, so they should come back after the summer break with a minor advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
    yes Max did a great job, I would love to see Max in the other Mercedes
    (or Lando Norris)
    Apparently Mercedes will make a decision in the next few weeks about who will drive the second car next year, and the options they are considering are Bottas and Ocon (they have already decided against having Max). I don't think Bottas has really worked out that well (despite being a good driver), and given the high level of potential Ocon was showing last year I think it's worth giving him a chance.

    Lando will need another year or two
    Yep, he is showing some good promise, but so far isn't really challenging his team mate... given that Lewis and Max were regularly beating team mates from the start (as well as some rookie mistakes), it looks like Lando doesn't have as much potential as them, but at worst I still expect him to do better than most drivers do... for now he just needs more experience.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I'd be interested to know Mercedes thinking on not wanting Max. I guess they don't want someone to compete with Lewis but someone to support him. Well it's worked well for them so far and Lewis is probably happy about it. Hopefully Red Bull/Honda can make some improvements, they don't need much.

    Honestly though, I think if they would have pitted Max immediately after Lewis there would have been enough time for Max to come out in front. Lewis was 20-21 seconds behind when he cam out of the pits. Even if he did come out behind, Max may have been able to overtake Lewis. But all the teams seem to have the mindset that there is no way to pass Lewis. Maybe their right.

  32. #112

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Honestly though, I think if they would have pitted Max immediately after Lewis there would have been enough time for Max to come out in front. Lewis was 20-21 seconds behind when he cam out of the pits. Even if he did come out behind, Max may have been able to overtake Lewis. But all the teams seem to have the mindset that there is no way to pass Lewis. Maybe their right.
    yes, 20-21 seconds would have been enough, they do have the best Pit-Crew
    I also don't understand why they didn't Pit Max immediately
    Last edited by ChrisE; Aug 5th, 2019 at 01:00 PM.
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I'm guessing they underestimated how much quicker Lewis would be than Max and were hoping he could hold Lewis off if only just. And once it was clear that he was going to catch Max, there weren't enough laps left to pit Max and give him a chance to take the lead back.

    I think it would be a mistake for Mercedes to let Bottas go. As just a casual fan, it is painfully obvious that Lewis is the golden child at Mercedes, and the second seat needs to play second fiddle. Max would never play second fiddle to anyone (imagine Max being asked to give up the lead to Lewis and then not get the lead back like what happened to Bottas last year). Max would never stand for that, and it seems like they want a driver that would accept (perhaps grudgingly) that role. Ocon is obviously anxious to get back in the car, so of course if, in order to get a seat, he has to move over for Lewis in a few races, he's going to accept that I would imagine.

    Red Bull hasn't had the type of mechanical issues this year that they've had in the past couple years, so I'm hoping they are able to keep Max in that seat. If they keep Gasly and he gets his act together in the home stretch, Red Bull has a good chance of finishing 2nd in the team points.

  34. #114
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    According to the boss of Red Bull, the gap was too small before they got around the track to the pit entry again, so Lewis would have been in front on tyres that were already warmed up (so an easy defence if Max tried to pass).

    Lewis isn't easy to pass, but Max has shown before he can do it... but in this situation it was very debatable if he could have caught up again, so Red Bull were a bit stuck and were just left hoping that Max's tyres would last to the end.

  35. #115

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    look's like Red Bull are changing Albon for Gasly, well Gasly had it comming
    let's wait and see how Albon does
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  36. #116
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Tough sport, 12 races with a new team and a new car is a pretty small sample size. He is in sixth in the points, right where everyone expected, and I doubt Max has been any real help. But I agree, he hasn't done anything to impress me either.

  37. #117
    Fanatic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    771

    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    There is a huge difference between a competitive 6th place in points, and barely 6th place in points. There is a huge gap between Team Red Bull and the next best team in F1, the fact that he was barely higher in points than 7th place was a huge factor I'm sure.

    That and the fact that in two races where he didn't have mechanical/contact issues he was lapped by his teammate. How many other teams have had that happen this year? None.

    Holding him to a Max V. standard is obv unfair since Max outperforms his car pretty consistently, but it was an embarrassment that he was finishing behind cars not from Mercedes or Ferrari in clean races. I'm excited for Red Bull for the rest of the season.

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