Is there a desktop software that has permanent vitality like Photoshop?

[TTn]

Sorry, I didn't express my meaning clearly. I mean, compared to PhotoShop, AR is small software (In fact, it's not difficult to develop software similar to AR using VB6). IMO, the development workload and difficulty of AR is about one percent of PhotoShop. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential of VB6 and whether it can be used to develop world-class software(with the help of RC5).

Ah yes thank you for re-iterating and clearing up the title. Title should say ongoing, or sustained etc. Permanent implies infinity, which is unanswerable. I think VB6 can be used better than it has been. One of the MS net books(the language) talks about how underutilized vb6 really was despite its overwhelming popularity.

I myself have chosen to back-port my .NET code for AI to VB6. In fact because of the long term issues and instability of .NET. It should be very interesting to see the speed up too, which is another big reason to back-port. The .NET brain took 2-6 seconds to respond appropriately to questions. This includes the time it took to: Sterilize the input, tag the parts of speech, re-arrange the sentence into an array of possible interpretations while scoring the word frequencies, identify the input as a question, and then match that query, now in the form of a sentence, to the memory database, which is a highly modified version of ConceptNET.

[dreammanor]

To be fair, you don't know my plans. But I feel you are being dishonest about your intentions and doubt I would use, contribute, or promote your product.

Hi DllHell, why not show your plan?

[techgnome]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential of VB6 and whether it can be used to develop world-class software(with the help of RC5).

Then THAT should have been the question right form the start... not some seemingly off the wall question about Photoshop and comparing it to other products where PS is the "standard"...

Sorry, I didn't express my meaning clearly. I mean, compared to PhotoShop, AR is small software (In fact, it's not difficult to develop software similar to AR using VB6). IMO, the development workload and difficulty of AR is about one percent of PhotoShop.

This is what's wrong with this thread... the comparisons... there's an awful lot of comparisons to apples and eggs as if somehow they are comparable, but because they aren't somehow one is inferior to the other. "The apple is clearly a simpler product to produce (no pun intended) because it has fewer parts, the egg meanwhile is much more complex, harder to build and can be hatched and results in the birth of a new bird, so clearly the egg is better and more complex." Phhhhththththththt!


-tg

[DllHell]

Hi DllHell, why not show your plan?

I'd like to use and contribute to it. But my interaction has left a bad impression about the creator and his future plans.

[FunkyDexter]

Then THAT should have been the question right form the start

I agree. Filing to do that has often made this thread look like an RC5 fluff piece and raised some eye brows.

I'd like to use and contribute to it. But my interaction has left a bad impression about the creator and his future plans

While I have some sympathy with the second sentence, I'm struggling to believe the first.

On the licensing issue, I'll freely declare that I'm utterly ignorant on the nuances of the various OS licences available. But I don't think you need to be a case lawyer to express the following:-

1. It's for or Olaf to assure himself that he's met the conditions for licence. If he hasn't, he can be sued.
2. It's for anyone who adopts his software to assure themselves that they are adopting software that has met the conditions of the licence. If they haven't they can be sued.
3. It's not unreasonable to express a doubt on this forum but 2 pages of repeating the doubt starts to look adversarial. Particular when a mod has asked "Can we please take some of the accusatory rhetoric out of this thread?" If you feel that a member is violating licence conditions of a third party's software then report it. Report it to us if you like, we have rules against it. Even better, report it to the license holder. If they want to pursue that violation, they will.

In this case the to and fro hasn't put anyone in a good light.

Edit - On Topic, or at least the stated topic> Seriously: WinZip!

[OptionBase1]

Edit - On Topic, or at least the stated topic> Seriously: WinZip!

WinZip was my first thought as well. Stayed away from this thread since I didn't want to get cancer, diabetes, or cancer that contained diabetes.

My additions: Microsoft Office, Adobe Acrobat, QuickTime Player.

Honorable mention for pcAnywhere (EOL as of several years ago).

[Schmidt]

I agree. Failing to do that has often made this thread look like an RC5 fluff piece and raised some eye brows.

I agree as well on that point - it came across as "underhanded advertising" (which didn't help the project at all).

For the record - I did not encourage dreammanor in any way (via Email or any other "prior communication"),
to start this thread... he probably did it "out of sympathy for my case" (with all the slandering going on in
other threads before this one).

I'd like to use and contribute to it. But my interaction has left a bad impression about the creator and his future plans

While I have some sympathy with the second sentence, I'm struggling to believe the first.

I'm struggling with the first sentence as well.

As for "sympathy with the second sentence" - and since you are here now -
what exactly *is* the position with regards to public slander in this Forum?

Can anybody here just go around - and paint some other member of this forum:
- as "shady" - and a law-breaker (DexWerx)
- or branding 'work already done' as a "shameful contribution to the community", and my current work as "vaporware"?

In my opinion all the above (wrong) accusations were made with clear intent to muddy my reputation in the public.
Why else posting them on a public forum - why not simply:
- sue me for the alleged infraction of license-law outside of this board (DexWerx)
- or in DllHells case - simply contacting me via Email, explaining the wish to help - perhaps already posting some contribution-snippet
. (that's what most of the others, who already have the RC5-sources have done)

I did not report this ongoing stuff to you Mods, because I find sending non-public-messages "to Mom" - I dunno ... kind of childish.
I hope I'm at least allowed to defend myself here (in cases like that) publically.

Olaf

[DllHell]

I'm struggling with the first sentence as well.

you both have a myopic view of "contribution". Would I be working on the guts of it? Probably not. But there are numerous tools and features of the IDE that are lacking in vb6 that would be great additions to your project and that I am fully capable of doing. Good luck on your project.

[Schmidt]

you both have a myopic view of "contribution". Would I be working on the guts of it? Probably not. But there are numerous tools and features of the IDE that are lacking in vb6 that would be great additions to your project and that I am fully capable of doing.

It was not all that much about your "capabilities" (everyone can learn, how to use the platformindependent Form- and Widget-Engine, to produce something "visual") -
it was primarily my doubt about your true intent (behind your "I'd like to contribute").

I hope it came across, that the RC5 is *not* the project that needs any contribution -
it is the new IDE and new compiler who'd need that.

And a new IDE which is written in VB6 (to be able to be compiled later with the new compiler, from its "bootstrapping, original VB6-sources"),
should not contain any Win32-API-declares, nor should it contain any references to MS-COM-libs (when the IDE shall run also on Linux later on).
The only thing that would be "allowed to help" in such a platform-independent IDE-Source (to shorten the implementation-code),
is the Classes from an abstraction-layer (which necessarily will have to cover all kinds of stuff - not only graphics and is therefore quite large)...
Concretely: I'm talking about the "VBNext-runtime"(classes), which are currently contained in a solid and (interface-) stable binary (the RC5).

And that interface- and behaviour-stability of these abstracting runtime-classes is *paramount* for such a big project.
E.g. since the thread opened up with a ScreenShot of the RC5-based Colibrico-App ...
This App could (in its entirety) be recompiled into a Linux-version "as is" (when the new compiler is finished),
directly from its original VB6-Sources without changing a single thing in the implementation-code.

So the RC5-Classes are "tabu" with regards to interface- or behaviour-changes, to ensure a solid,
unchanging base not only for the new IDE-development - but also to protect "existing coding-efforts of others"
who are using these Classes in their current VB6-Projects.

But (having explained the above) - let's make another attempt (with something simple, that's not yet done):
- would you be willing to implement e.g. the new Find-Dialog, all based on Cairo-Widgets and the Cairo-FormEngine?

I guess not - (probably with the same excuse as before) - but please note, that it's not me who's holding you back.
It'd be your own distrust into a fellow developer (who already told you, that he will open the RC5-sources later on).

I have no such explicitely written statements from the "whole of the VB6-community-members"
(that they never will disrupt, shorten, fork, rename, re-implement differently, or whatever) the new, intended to be stable)
Runtime-Classes of the IDE-Compiler-Project.

And that's exactly what I don't like about all these complaints -
You have it in explicitely written words (from me - "on my honor" if you like), that I'll open the runtime up,
after the compiler is successfully finished.

Your non-acceptance despite reading those written words (and despite knowing, that other contributors already have the sources),
automatically implies, that I'm lying to you (all).
And that's really not a nice thing to do to a colleague - especially not in a public forum.

Slander only applies to the spoken word. Libel is the written word and defamation covers them both.

Thanks for the explanation - but again - why resort to libel/defamation here on a public board?

Olaf

[Eduardo-]

Olaf,

so, in short (about your project): you don't want to discuss anything with anybody, you want to do everything the way you like and the way you think it is best.

It seems like you assume that you always have the best idea.

You have all the right to think so and to do so. But not the right to blame people that don't want to get involved under those conditions.
You have to realize that that view is not "democratic" at all. No problem, you are the king of that kingdom.

I think that you are right when you say that opening the sources you could get competing "forks". Yes, some people could get pissed when they realize that you don't care about anyone suggestion but you are only fixed in your ideas.
The project (and comunity) can be forked and it may happen that a fork could get more attention and success than yours.
That scenario would be less probably to happen if the ideas were discussed, taken into account and evaluated by the community.

I also realize that there is another reason for not to open the sources. If you are planning to make a payed Windows version it isn't a good idea to open the sources then.

About your project, my worries are that it doesn't seem to me that you are committed to provide backward compatibility. You made it quite clear here:

This offers the chance for a "soft-migration" of ones own VB6-Projects now (whilst the new environment is still in development).

For the community I see these options:

1) To sit and wait until you finish something.
2) To sit and wait to see if MS does something.
3) To try to contribute to your kingdom, even if we don't like some things and our opinions are ignored.
4) To do something as a community.

Expanded:
1) No explanantion necessary.
2) I think we already have waited for too long.
3) It would be a valid decission. But for someone else.
4) That one is what seems more logical to me.

BTW, I see that for the "difficult" parts knoledge of C is required (along with other "advanced" things).

I'm just trying to clarify the prospect.
I have some hope on option 4) because 1) can take too long and can produce a thing that isn't what we want.

And yes, we want cross platform. But not only Linux, today Android is important.
And the most important and perhaps with more future: web Apps.

[FunkyDexter]

what exactly *is* the position with regards to public slander in this Forum?

We don't like it but we don't explicitly have rules against it. We have rules against trolling and I must admit that I'm struggling to imagine how a member could slander another without trolling them but, if I'm being pedantic, we'd deal with the trolling but not the slander. If you want to pursue a case of slander then go ahead and get legal advice and find out where you stand - we wouldn't get involved.

Whether this thread contains trolling, yes, I think it does but I also think that could be applied to both sides. Us mods probably should have stepped in earlier but we don't like to be too heavy handed. That's why Shaggy and myself have posted a few messages asking to keep things calm but have stopped short of handing out warnings, bans etc. We really don't like to do that stuff and treat it as a last resort. Mostly we just expect you guys to behave maturely and civilly, you're not kids. (Well, some of you are literally kids but you tend to be pretty mature ones - the behaviour here is much better than on the average gaming forum)

I will say again, though, keep things civil and keep them polite. If someone doesn't want contributors to their project, that is their decision and they don't need to justify it to anyone else. And if someone chooses not to use a particular product, that is their choice and they don't need to justify it to anyone else. Anything constructive to be said about either if those arguments was said several pages back and within a few posts. Everything that has been said since has nothing to do with finding a solution or reaching an accord and everything to do with "winning" an argument. But we all know that arguments aren't won by the person with the better point, they're won buy the person who's more stubborn.

[FunkyDexter]

Microsoft Office, Adobe Acrobat, QuickTime Player.

Honorable mention for pcAnywhere (EOL as of several years ago).

I tend to think that the software that lasts is the software that does one thing well. Both platforms and culture will change and software is forced to adjust to that. If it's tightly focussed on a single requirement (or closely related set of them) it's got a fighting chance of adapting. If it's trying to be all things to all people it tends to fail over time.

If I'm right about that we can all look forward to a brighter future where SharePoint is finally confined to the seventh circle of hell... where it belongs.

[DllHell]

But (having explained the above) - let's make another attempt (with something simple, that's not yet done):
- would you be willing to implement e.g. the new Find-Dialog, all based on Cairo-Widgets and the Cairo-FormEngine?

I guess not - (probably with the same excuse as before) -

The current vb6 ide, and most ide's, are lacking. I'd like to implement "HoverSense" where the user can hover over certain things, perform a regex or other query language, and get a hook to expose or lookup and display other information. I'm assuming you would be able to expose the AST for some really interesting possibilities.

but please note, that it's not me who's holding you back.
It'd be your own distrust into a fellow developer (who already told you, that he will open the RC5-sources later on).

I am not interested in closed source projects. You've also indicated that you may offer a commercial version in which case I would also require financial compensation. In short, there are, for me, too many barriers.

[dreammanor]

In the past few days, I've been browsing NW.js and Electron and found that there are some disputes between these two open source projects:

http://cheng.guru/blog/2017/11/20/st...de-webkit.html

[FunkyDexter]

@DllHell, Really? You're going to carry on?

Olaf has said quite clearly that he's not going to open source this. That's his choice. While you may not agree with it you should respect it and move on.

One of the downsides of that decision is that he loses out on possible contributions that an open source project might attract. It was valid to make that point... once. Continuing to make it achieves nothing productive and merely serves to prolong a pointless argument and generate bad feeling.

Let it drop.

[DllHell]

@DllHell, Really? You're going to carry on?

Olaf has said quite clearly that he's not going to open source this. That's his choice. While you may not agree with it you should respect it and move on.

He hasn't been clear. See #115 http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...=1#post5312071

So there WILL be an open source linux version but there MAY be an open source windows version. I'm trying to get clarification and answering his requests for work.

[dreammanor]

@FunkyDexter:

I've received your private message. Sorry for causing trouble to many people. For the thread I'll post about RC5 in the future, I'll clearly indicate that it's RC5 in the title, so that those who are not interested in RC5 can turn around. Hope this will avoid disturbing them.

Thank you for your private message, thank you for your reminder.

[FunkyDexter]

OK, you want me to be pedantic, he's made it quite clear that he's not open sourcing it now. So your offer of contributing is meaningless as long as you qualify it by saying "I am not interested in closed source projects" and "In short, there are, for me, too many barriers".


@dreammanor: and thank you for receiving that in the spirit it was sent. That was a very mature response. We want a forum where everyone feels welcome.

[wqweto]

In the past few days, I've been browsing NW.js and Electron and found that there are some disputes between these two open source projects:

http://cheng.guru/blog/2017/11/20/st...de-webkit.html

Another interesting read there: Lessons learnt from open sourcing Yue

tl;dr

- Double-check the licenses of third party code -- don't copy blatantly from "free" sources, attribution is important
- Choose well-recognized licenses -- LGPL, MIT vs MS-Something
- Do not explictly ask for money -- for Windows versions? :-))
- Be modest on words -- being aggresive with "The Uneducated Mobs" is not helping

cheers,
</wqw>

[DllHell]

OK, you want me to be pedantic, he's made it quite clear that he's not open sourcing it now.

I get what you are saying but he continues to ask about my "contributions" even after my numerous explanations.

With that in mind, there is nothing more to gain here, I'm sure people are tired of this back and forth, and I will no longer be participating in this thread.

[Schmidt]

Not sure, whether that is meant for me, but I guess it is...

- Double-check the licenses of third party code -- don't copy blatantly from "free" sources, attribution is important

Just for the record:
- there is no "copy" of free sources inside vbRichClient5.dll (all the free sources were compiled unchanged into vb_cairo_sqlite.dll)
- and "attribution" is fully covered within the distribution-zip (in the file _Library-Licenses.txt)

- Choose well-recognized licenses -- LGPL, MIT vs MS-Something

Yep - as soon as the new compiler is ready, one will be able to "merge" both (vbRichClient5.dll and vb_cairo_sqlite.dll)
into a single *.dll (or alternatively into a single *.lib or *.a for static linking).
And as soon as one does that (merging ones own code with other OpenSources),
the license for your own code will have to be compatible with the licenses of the "other parts of the merger".
Nothing new there...

- Do not explictly ask for money -- for Windows versions? :-))

As said, I don't know about that yet - if I'll end up having 99% of all the work done entirely on my own
(without any noticable contributions from the community), then I will consider (as opposed to definitely do) that of course...

- Be modest on words -- being aggresive with "The Uneducated Mobs" is not helping

Well, IMO you were lucky in that regard (so far), here in this forum.

If your work will at some time later (after you invested a few man-years into it, not only a few weeks or months) be "attacked" (or otherwise "defamed") -
or just (incompatibly) forked by other people, or - let's say - "forked by a company" which then throws a bunch of "full-time-payed devs" at the problem,
managing then (thanks to your "ground-breaking-basework"), to be finished "way earlier" with a nice, full-featured product, and then in turn
receiving "all the credit" from an ever faster growing user-base (who will not contribute to your project anymore, because they now have "something better") -
whilst you, with your own sources, having not even reached the alpha-phase, will be left in the dust, being forgotten) -
then - I imagine - would be a good time, to try out a few "nice, modest words" on your own...

Olaf

[wqweto]

Olaf, I can completely understand your point of view. This has happened before and for sure will happen again. The guy from the blog sounds bitter as he had his own hurdles in this thing called life of his.

The bullets above were for my own and everyone else's reminder. I did my fair share of blatant copy/paste from OSS. I had some of my projects repackaged (incl. bugs) and sold by shady companies too. But nevertheless OSS comes with different culture that is new and very interesting to me.

cheers,
</wqw>

[dreammanor]

IMO, there must be a large commercial company or fund behind a successful open source project, sucha as NW.js and Electron.

[dreammanor]

Sorry, I didn't express my meaning clearly. I mean, compared to PhotoShop, AR is small software (In fact, it's not difficult to develop software similar to AR using VB6). IMO, the development workload and difficulty of AR is about one percent of PhotoShop.

This is what's wrong with this thread... the comparisons... there's an awful lot of comparisons to apples and eggs as if somehow they are comparable, but because they aren't somehow one is inferior to the other. "The apple is clearly a simpler product to produce (no pun intended) because it has fewer parts, the egg meanwhile is much more complex, harder to build and can be hatched and results in the birth of a new bird, so clearly the egg is better and more complex." Phhhhththththththt!


-tg

I said that the purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential of VB6 and whether it can be used to develop world-class software.

Since it is to discuss the potential of VB6, then we need to explore the areas that VB6 is not good at. I think VB6 is not good at the following areas: graphics, communication, Web-Apps, Mobile-Apps

If we narrow down the scope to desktop software, then only the area of "graphics" can be discussed, and PhotoShop is an outstanding representative of this field.

VB is good at UI, database and data analysis, so developing an AR-like software with VB is not a difficult task. But developing software like PhotoShop with VB is extremely difficult. I don't see any company or individual can do this.

If there is an excellent development framework or helper tool, maybe Tanner is most likely to achieve this goal.

[dilettante]

Something you might consider is that one of the ways people commonly get into trouble trying to create and support VB6 programs over a long lifetime is 3rd party libraries.

These can suddenly disappear in the future or further development might stop. Then if bugs arise or changes to Windows break something you can be left high and dry. When the library is small you might be able to substitute an alternative or reproduce the functionality yourself. This can be far more costly if the library is some massive "everything but the kitchen sink" megalibrary.

The total lack of documentation would make such a library a pretty dubious choice in any event.

[Schmidt]

Something you might consider is that one of the ways people commonly get into trouble trying to create and support VB6 programs over a long lifetime is 3rd party libraries.

Yep - we have seen that already from MS, who e.g.
- broke ADO already once or twice with System-Upgrades
- removed important functionlity from COM-libs (as e.g. in case of WIA, which you still recommend as a graphics-tool).

And one thing is certainly for sure - if VB6 or VB6-Apps will finally not work anymore,
then this was caused due to non-existing or broken *MS*-libraries and not by
a library who's whole purpose it is, to remove as many dependencies to MS-libs as possible.

These can suddenly disappear in the future...

Just for the record (in case you mean the RC5):
If your binary copy of the RC5 suddenly disappears from your machine,
then you might consider sending a mail or PM to other RC5-users, who will certainly help you out...

...or further development might stop.
Then if bugs arise or changes to Windows break something you can be left high and dry.

And again (in case you mean the RC5):
Nope, not possible - because the sources are spread among trustworthy VB6-community-members.

The total lack of documentation would make such a library a pretty dubious choice in any event.

And yet again (in case you mean the RC5):

Here the *.chm-Files for the RC5-lib and vbWidgets.dll (provided by DrUnicode):
http://cyberactivex.com/download/CairoDocs.zip

And then there's the official cairo-documentation:
https://cairographics.org/manual/
And the COM-wrapper comes with the worldwide largest tutorial of ready to use (VB6)sourcecode (compared to cairo-wrappers for other languages):
http://www.vbrichclient.com/Download...roTutorial.zip

For SQLite there's no difference (here the official documentation):
https://www.sqlite.org/docs.html
And the COM-wrapper comes with the worldwide largest tutorial of ready to use (VB6)sourcecode (compared to SQLite-wrappers for other languages):
http://www.vbRichClient.com/Downloads/SQLiteDemos.zip

HTH

Olaf

[Elroy]

Olaf, you've truly been drinking too much of your own kool-aid. The fact that you compare yourself to Microsoft, strikes me as quite incredulous. To borrow (and bend) a famous quote, Olaf, you are no Microsoft.

I thought about replying with quotes of the ways your post #146 contradicts with things you've said previously (implied that bugs will be fixed, but you don't have much time these days, to name one). But, you are clearly extremely dug in, and would only take it as an opportunity to spin more about RC5.

I probably should stay out of this thread, as I said I was going to several dozen posts back. But you're long posts are just so often filled with propositional flaws that it's difficult. And, this post isn't for you. It's for those who haven't, but may be tempted to pick up a glass of your kool-aid (as clearly a couple of others have).

I apologize if you see this as personally libelous. It's truly the way I see things. And, when you leave a post that attempts to give the impression that RC5 is the best thing since sliced bread, it's difficult to just let that be.

So long as you're not causing harm to others (which isn't entirely clear to me, and possibly yet to be determined) ... All The Best To You,
Elroy

Urban Dictionary: "Hey, free kool-aid! But why does it smell kinda like almonds? Meh, who cares!"

EDIT1: And for those who "drank the kool-aid", I applaud your courage of attaching yourself to a one-man, closed-source, large library. And, although that can easily come off as irony, it's truly said in honesty. It's just not for me, and I truly do wish you the best.

[Schmidt]

The fact that you compare yourself to Microsoft, strikes me as quite incredulous.

I did not compare "myself" in my last post #146 - instead what I did was, to compare libraries
with regards to their potential, to "break the VB6-IDE or your own VB6-Apps" (since dile brought that problem to our attention).

And the potential, that it will be a (missing, shortened, or otherwise made incompatible)
*MS*-Dll which will break VB6 finally, is orders of magnitudes higher, than the potential
inherent in a lib, which avoids as many MS-lib-dependencies as it can.

There is nothing to really "dispute" about that fact (other than - that the community as a whole (not only me) should think about ways -
how to lower the amount of MS-lib-dependencies, the VB6-stuff currently depends on (if VB6 shall become "unbreakable" in the future).

And if one doesn't want to reimplement everything via direct VB6-code, then it's a good idea, to employ other libs,
which are known to be platform-independent (but do basically the same things as the MS-ones we want to get rid of).

Your own attempts, to get familiar with the cairo-lib (to be able to "rule out the dependencies to GDI32 or GDIPlus"),
is a good start into the right direction.

I thought about replying with quotes of the ways your post #146 contradicts with things you've said previously
(implied that bugs will be fixed, but you don't have much time these days, to name one).

There is currently no known bugs in the RC5 (please point one out, if you find one).
The last fix (a week ago) was pointed out by DrUnicode - and yes, I don't have that much time currently,
but I meant that with regards to stuff, that I'm currently developing "on top" of the RC5, not the RC5 itself.

But, you are clearly extremely dug in, and would only take it as an opportunity to spin more about RC5.

Please read again carefully this time (especially what I wrote on the top of this posting here).
Which explains the whole purpose of the RC5 quite nicely, and which also makes it clear,
that you still completely misunderstand the reaons for its existence.

As long as you insinuate in your posts, that the RC5 is just "pointless kool-aid" or "only exists for evil purposes",
I will (have to) respond to such postings (because that's just not true) - it's purpose is, to help to lower MS-dependencies
(with the final goal, to work entirely "MS-free" on an OS, which does not contain any MS-Dlls).

I apologize if you see this as personally libelous.

An apology-prefix doesn't help the matter much, Elroy.

Libel derives from:
"prematurely judging someone or something (in the public), without having the full information, or from not fully understanding the information".

E.g. (just a fictional example, and a little extreme) but let's say:
You encounter a man, "never seen in this neighbourhood before", kissing the little daughter of "Paul and Mary who live just next door".
Then libel is, when you shoot a Photo of him, print it out - and nail the page to the door of your little Village-church -
(Titled: "I apologize, but Be Aware Of The Child-Molester!")

This guy (even if later comes out, that he was just the "long missing grandpa of the child, who lived in 'Timbuktu' the last 20 years")
may be "branded for life" in that little village ("stay away from my son, you old fart") - in case he had plans to settle there or something...

That's what "premature judging, wihout all the information" can do to somebody.

And that's (basically) what you're doing here:
- you dismiss or skip over the information I (and others) give (complaining about its length)
- you're still a newbie with regards to "free software and platform-independent libs"
- you don't know what the lib contains - and never used it before
- you don't know, what's already developed on top of it (e.g. in vbWidgets on GitHub)
- you don't know, or dismiss the information about its goals
- you doubt my capabilities (despite testing-out the evidence in the the lib you never used)

By far not enough knowledge - and still you're "judging it" (and also "me, as a person").

Olaf

[ColinE66]

EDIT1: And for those who "drank the kool-aid", I applaud your courage of attaching yourself to a one-man, closed-source, large library. And, although that can easily come off as irony, it's truly said in honesty. It's just not for me, and I truly do wish you the best.

Nope, doesn't come across as either ironic or honest. The fact that you chose to prefix your 'praise' with a kool-aid reference says far more about what you are trying to convey...

[Shaggy Hiker]

Well, this is the most contentious thread on the forum, currently, and it doesn't seem to be settling down any. I went out and slogged down an icy stream in frozen boots for a week, and this thread got warmer in the meantime. There are many points here covering opinions that I feel really should be stated, such as the debate about open license compliance. That's something that really SHOULD be discussed and debated in a programming forum, because it impacts a great number of people.

However, the thread barely had anything to do with VB6, and barely had a question. Since that time, it has wandered all over the place, and really has nothing to do with the original question anymore. Furthermore, the original question wasn't really a programming question, but a general question. Therefore, while the topics may well be useful, they make more sense in Chit-Chat than as a programming question.

[Peter Porter]

...the thread barely had anything to do with VB6, and barely had a question. Since that time, it has wandered all over the place, and really has nothing to do with the original question anymore.

Reading 25 replies of this thread, I skipped the rest after my headache passed.

[Shaggy Hiker]

You did it wrong. You're supposed to skip it when the headache STARTS.

[dreammanor]

@Shaggy Hiker:

Sorry, I mentioned "License" on the floor #63, so this thread became an argument for the RC5 License. But you can see from this thread, who are deliberately causing disputes, who are going to drive what they don't like out of vbForums.

[reexre]

Olaf, you've truly been drinking too much of your own kool-aid. The fact that you compare yourself to Microsoft, strikes me as quite incredulous. To borrow (and bend) a famous quote, Olaf, you are no Microsoft.

I thought about replying with quotes of the ways your post #146 contradicts with things you've said previously (implied that bugs will be fixed, but you don't have much time these days, to name one). But, you are clearly extremely dug in, and would only take it as an opportunity to spin more about RC5.

I probably should stay out of this thread, as I said I was going to several dozen posts back. But you're long posts are just so often filled with propositional flaws that it's difficult. And, this post isn't for you. It's for those who haven't, but may be tempted to pick up a glass of your kool-aid (as clearly a couple of others have).

I apologize if you see this as personally libelous. It's truly the way I see things. And, when you leave a post that attempts to give the impression that RC5 is the best thing since sliced bread, it's difficult to just let that be.

So long as you're not causing harm to others (which isn't entirely clear to me, and possibly yet to be determined) ... All The Best To You,
Elroy

Urban Dictionary: "Hey, free kool-aid! But why does it smell kinda like almonds? Meh, who cares!"

EDIT1: And for those who "drank the kool-aid", I applaud your courage of attaching yourself to a one-man, closed-source, large library. And, although that can easily come off as irony, it's truly said in honesty. It's just not for me, and I truly do wish you the best.

[Peter Porter]

Reading 25 replies of this thread, I skipped the rest after my headache passed.

You did it wrong. You're supposed to skip it when the headache STARTS.

Nah... getting a headache usually means you're learning or trying to make sense of things, so you try to stay strong to absorb as much info until your brain goes numb. And you know you can't learn when you're numb, but that doesn't mean I'm here again to continue where I left off!